Is it me, or is DRK really isn't that super great, nor super bad.

Now now be bit more calm. All this "drk is shit and useless in raid environment" hating is not really productive.

the job is new. i think the 3 new jobs will have the longest patchnotes in the next patches. so far im pretty fine with my drk, and if its soooooo horrible like everyone says i can still switch to my war but to be honest i love being the "underdog" and prove that the new class is viable :D

and what off the slashing debuff...delirium provides that. or do i miss something?

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Originally Posted by Hypie

and what off the slashing debuff...delirium provides that. or do i miss something?

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Delirium is not a slashing debuff, it's a -10% INT like Dragon Kick. Unfortunately DK is considered better by the game since it also reduced blunt resistance; so if DK is up, even with very low time remaining, the DB effect won't apply.

Dark Knight so far has this relentless pressure on upkeep for stuff you're doing. Almost all of your CDs are incredibly short so keeping them rotated matters a lot more.

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Originally Posted by BadRNG

Delirium is not a slashing debuff, it's a -10% INT like Dragon Kick. Unfortunately DK is considered better by the game since it also reduced blunt resistance; so if DK is up, even with very low time remaining, the DB effect won't apply.

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aw man...why do we get a buff thats entirely useless to us? the monks keep their buff up on their own *kicks delirium out of hotbars*

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Originally Posted by Hypie

*kicks delirium out of hotbars*

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Without Dark Arts Delirium deals more damage than Souleater. And more damage than the "enmity" rotation (10 potency more overall). So I would not kick it from the hotbar. :P (even if the effect is debatable)

I knew DRK only having dark side and dark arts as damage enhancers was fishy...

One thing that really bugs me though, blood weapon is not usable in grit. In dungeons blood price gives a gillion mana but against single targets it's lame. Should have gotten half potency blood weapon while in grits at least.

Well its pretty obvious that all the new jobs are going to have some adjustments here and there in the next patch. My opinion is that DRK is not "bad" but its not all that "good" either people have already stated the obvious issues.

Ok is it me or do darks have tp issues I find myself running out of tp on bosses when I usually don't have that problem on war or pld I'm just putting dot or aggro combo or mp combo anyone else experiencing this?

Yeah I'm having issues with TP as well.. Only work around I found is just spamming Unmend until TP is over 500. I was kinda hoping that Drk would have full rotation based on mana use, while having a TP rotation. Would help out a lot.

Mee too. My TP run pretty low during longer fights. But you have skills that use MP to compensate that or use instead of you TP Skills until you regen some.
But on bosses my TP drops faster than I experienced with my Warrior and Paladin.

Wondering now if I should have stuck my points in pie for mana...

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Originally Posted by BadRNG

That is how it is meant to be played, which is why Darkside isn't really like Deliverance at all, it's not a dps stance, it's "you better have this on no matter what you are doing" stance.

And while I hate it, I think the MP cost and GCD/combo breaking aspect of Grit is to prevent the exact situation you are describing. They don't want us popping out for Blood Weapon. Blood Price is "supposed" to be the BW equivalent but it doesn't really work out to be as reliable, at least not against bosses.

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I thought they set up Blood Weapon how it was simply because they DO want us to have those few moments where our defenses are lowered to do more damage and gain back the MP we spent. That's pretty much the only time I drop Grit, so over the course of 4 minutes, I pull the 'burst' outside of Grit for a total of 1 minute and 30 seconds. There are of course moments where you really don't want to do that, but I don't really see them crop up often outside of having a bad healer.

Alright, I'll give my feedback so far. Level 55 DRK here:

The class is OK, it doesn't shine though. As others have said, it's a middle-ground between Paladin and Warrior. My big concern is how this class will be played in raid content, because it doesn't shine as neither OT or MT. As a Paladin, you have passive mitigation from Shield Oath+parry+block. As a warrior you have potential damage reductions from having a high pool of HP+increased HP recovered via magic, that made spells like Stoneskin super effective with them, even though they were "nerfed". Grit is Shield Oath. You don't have a passive mitigation move but Parry, which I don't know how much effective it is now, since I'm using my DET + CRIT gear that I used with my Paladin.

- The emnity combo: It has an increased combo potency in exchange of an additional effect. Which emnity can be further increased with Dark Arts. So far, I didn't need to use Dark Arts with Power Slash since the base emnity generation was good enough. It might be a good "Oh shit, need to generate emnity quick" move but still, I think it's a wasted potential.

- The Soul Eater combo: I found myself spamming this. Not only because the self heal, which goes from 900 to 1400 crits while using Dark Arts, but its damage output with said buff on. This combo is more powerful than the Rage of Halone combo, since Syphon Strike does more damage than Fast Blade. As for Warrior, Syphon Strike does more damage Skull Sunder but Soul Eater does less damage than Butcher's Block. It's really worth it when you find yourself with plenty MP to use Dark Arts on it.

- The Delirium combo: Same than the previous one. More powerful than both RoH and BB combos. This 10% of int reduction could be handful if you don't have a MNK in your party. Otherwise, just forget it.

- Low Blow. It's not bad. It's like Heavy Swing with the chance of getting its cd reset'd upon parrying.

- Scourge: It's okay. It's an improved Fracture.

- Defensive cds:

• Shadowskin: Rampart.
• Shadow Wall: The same mitigation than Vengeance with the same CD than Sentinel. No additional effects. This skills will require some special treatment. Either with Dark Arts or adjusting either the damage you reduce or the CD itself.
• Dark Dance: Parry Rate. Increases the chances of getting a Reprisal proc. Keen Flurry is more superior than this. Dark Arts gives you 20%+ dodge, whcih can be combined with a Dark Arts + Dark Passager which blinds the enemy, but that's TOO MUCH MP. However, it's only useful with big pulls, where you can recover your MP in two seconds with Blood Price. I don't see this skill useful in raid content at all.
• Dark Mind: Magic mitigation. Good for 2hr moves, or certain boss moves. Dark Arts increases its efficiency. However sometimes it's hard to discern if it's magical or physical damage, even if it's a new encounter.

<Cross-class>
I'm struggling with this. Convalescence and Provoke are a must. Foresight... might help. Specially with the lack of defensive cooldowns you've got. However, you can freely choose between Bloodbath, Fracture and Mercy Stroke. Awareness is so circunstancial that you can swap it during certain encounters with either move but the first 2.

-The Playstyle at my current level:

Big pulls are not a big deal. You either start with Plunge (No TP/MP cost, recommended) or Unmend (MP cost) and Salted Earth asap or x1 Unleash and then Salted Earth. Blood Price then a couple of "Unleash" , and you're good. Since Blood Price is on and you're constantly receiving damage, you can use Dark Passager without major consequences combined with Dark Arts. You might want to combine Shadowskin+Convalescence whenever you can. I'll recommend to pop Dark Arts before Blood Price, so you can recover that wasted MP as you still have the buff on for the next seconds.

Small pulls, almost the same but with the chance of using dots on the monsters with Scourge.

Bosses: No problem so far. It's pretty straight. Keep dots up, just a couple of emnity combos and then Soul Eater with Dark Arts as much as you can. The CD rotation is almost the same than PLD.

- Darkside upkeep.

As an OT: Blood Weapon.
As an MT: Blood Price.

<Problem>

As an MT you sometimes don't receive damage at all. So you gotta KNOW when the boss is going to deal a lot of damage in a row to use it. Otherwise the skill is wasted. During such circunstances, the best thing you can do is to drop Grit, pop a cd (or not) to compensate, activate Blood Weapon, dot, Syphon combo moves and done. You might want to combine both to increase the chances of recovering your MP. As an adjustment, I would slightly increase the MP recovery from Syphon Blade.

This "stance dancing" requires you to fully know the encounter. I find myself struggling in raid content because of this. During dungeon bosses, no problem, their mechanics are simple but we'll see...

- Living Dead: °-° I question the effiency of this skill. It's not as reliable as HG, and it stresses the healers, since they need to top you as soon as you become a Living Dead. The advantage of HG is to let the healers rest to either DPS or regain MP. It was a "okay, guys, I'm Mario and I just got a Star from a "?" box. Relax now". So, if you pair DRK with WAR, the "oh shit buttom" becomes a "heal me anyway, I won't die though".

So, in the end, being both a WAR and PLD , in Raid content people will prefer to have a WAR (A reliable OT, damage dealer) and a PLD (A soild tank, with a solid mitigation skillset), not a Jack of All Trades and Master of Nothing. We'll see. I'll try it out in Alexander. In the meantime, when I'm done with DRK, I'll level up PLD right away just in case.

Will do the same as Cyrus only difference i play WAR :D

But i agree that the new Jobs will have the longest Patch Notes in future Patches. I at least hope that SE will have the goal to make it "doable" so that we won't have a Class on 60 thats completely useless after Dungeon Farming.

Of course lazy players will still choose PLD and/or WAR and "discriminate" on the DRK if the difference is a bit more than "oh then i just heal you 2 times instead of one time only". I have seen that even in ARR. The Heals didnt enter the boss ring until i was kicked with my low equipped WAR at that time. (crystal tower lol)

Its a Shame but...lazy players....

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I thought they set up Blood Weapon how it was simply because they DO want us to have those few moments where our defenses are lowered to do more damage and gain back the MP we spent. That's pretty much the only time I drop Grit, so over the course of 4 minutes, I pull the 'burst' outside of Grit for a total of 1 minute and 30 seconds. There are of course moments where you really don't want to do that, but I don't really see them crop up often outside of having a bad healer.

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That's pretty much how your supposed to do it. have small bursts here and there where we pull out all the stops and regain mp like crazy. definitely a good idea for single target dps, though in pulls more than 2 blood price regens enough mp to effectively unleash endlessly.

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Originally Posted by Solduios

Snip

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Your mana costs scale with your max mp so I would not do this. I\\\\'m personally going full STR to take advantage of DRK\\\\'s high parry rate as well as well as getting more health from Souleater. I\\\\'ve found that playing DRK with a relentless DPS mindset works wonders while always rotating my cooldowns. Constant Soul Eater combo heals me for roughly 1k health- 1.4k on crits every 3 skills and even more with Bloodbath up at lv 52 with an ilv 120 weapon.Your enmity is so great that I don\\\\'t find myself using my enmity combo at all except sometimes at first just to safely establish agro.

DRKs also have the highest capacity to deal with magic attacks, which is sometimes a tank\\\\'s biggest weakness. PLD\\\\'s only have Rampart and Sentinel available to soften the blow from a magic attack, but DRK\\\\'s have access to Shadowskin, Shadow Wall, Dark Mind, and Delirium to safely deal with a Magic attacks, making them extremely versatile.

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Originally Posted by Odett

Your mana costs scale with your max mp so I would not do this. I\\\\'m personally going full STR to take advantage of DRK\\\\'s high parry rate as well as well as getting more health from Souleater.

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Wait, seriouslly? So whats the point in getting any piety?

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Originally Posted by Tila

Wait, seriouslly? So whats the point in getting any piety?

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Sorry, I made a mistake. Cost of skills will scale on your level, not based on Piety, but I'd honestly not recommend using your stat points for that. Blood Price and dropping Grit and using Blood Sword when a boss isn't hitting hard are more than enough enough for MP management.

From what I read a few months ago and what I'm hearing now. Piety doesn't seem like a stat you'ld want to dump points into. However my question was about crafted gear being needed for materia, and was answered with the new craft list. At best from what I can tell, add +str or +vit materia on the left and Piety to the right. If you reached the Vit or Str cap toss Dex(parry) > Piety(mp) on the left. Or Vit<>Str>Dex to the right if Piety is capped. At least until folks can find their sweet spot on max Mp and start moving stats into Vit or Str. Like how some say Warrior "@ ilev??" should have "x" amount of hp before/ after swapping +vit into into +str.

However from what I'm hearing from people that already unlocked the job. It almost seems like FFXI's Rune Fencer if it were built more like a Dark Knight. If Dark Knights parry is higher than Warriors, but is still mostly not really that useful a stat on either Paladin and Warrior. Then would that mean a overall change to parry in general somewhere down the road, if at all? So far parry as I can tell is about as useful as it was in FFXI (after the nerf). I'm hoping that the next 6+ months of updates might at least tweak it enough to where a reliable overview can be made. Right now to me it seems like it still has a little "work in progress" to it.

Other than that Warrior just had a lot of HP. How does Dark Knight compare on that stat?

There's something I've been wondering. What was the name of the move which procs on Parry to reduce incoming damage from enemies? I don't recall anything stating if it would stack with Warrior's Storm's Eye or Ninja's Dancing Edge. This could prove to be useful endgame. I haven't had the chance to test it myself. Also I apologize if it was mentioned already.

my biggest complain at lv57 is atm how lackluster souleater is, hp return is too low. at least the dark arts version should return more hp. maybe twice (or even more) damaged dealt. also why does it only absob hp in grit stance?
blood weapon just outside grit is meh aswell, but i can see how it is balanced. otherwse mp management would be non existant.

Abyssal Drain is awesome though. I felt undefeatable my first time in the vault.

Dark dance is too random to be useful on single target mobs imo. delirium is nice if you don't have a mnk in the pt. but both syphon strike finisher are just ok. i find myself often not doing them, just getting some mp back and going back into the higher dmg enmity combo. and this devalues the DA effect of power slash, as hate is never an issue this way

plunge and salted earth are nice, but just tools in the end that do almost nothing for tanking.


I do love the job though, but i still have to see how it performs on real stuff.

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

snip

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Havent got to abyssal drain yet, but am I right in assuming that it makes Unleash redundant? Both are aoe enmity generators with no CD.

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

delirium is nice if you don't have a mnk in the pt. but both syphon strike finisher are just ok. i find myself often not doing them, just getting some mp back and going back into the higher dmg enmity combo. and this devalues the DA effect of power slash, as hate is never an issue this way

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I don't think you are accounting for the difference between Syphon and Spinning's potencies, when you do Delirium chain is actually higher potency than Power, if only by 10 . Using it gets you syphon though which means more DA SE, much higher potency than any other chain. So Power's DA effect is still pretty useful.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

There's something I've been wondering. What was the name of the move which procs on Parry to reduce incoming damage from enemies? I don't recall anything stating if it would stack with Warrior's Storm's Eye or Ninja's Dancing Edge. This could prove to be useful endgame. I haven't had the chance to test it myself. Also I apologize if it was mentioned already.

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Reprise. Haven't had a chance to test that yet. But it more than likely will.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

There's something I've been wondering. What was the name of the move which procs on Parry to reduce incoming damage from enemies? I don't recall anything stating if it would stack with Warrior's Storm's Eye or Ninja's Dancing Edge. This could prove to be useful endgame. I haven't had the chance to test it myself. Also I apologize if it was mentioned already.

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You mean Reprisal. The bad thing about it, it has a 30 recast time, so you can't keep it up for two reasons: RNG (parry) + CD. Compared to Storm's Eye, which can be up by following the OT routine. Reprisal is an actual "downgrade". It's useful, as they say, if there's no MNK in your group... and if the boss doesn't attack you with magical attacks. 'Cuz, you can't parry a nova AoE.

Sole Survivor works on enemies apparently:
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ltip_is_wrong/

This'll be great in multi mob fights.

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Originally Posted by Violette

Sole Survivor works on enemies apparently:
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ltip_is_wrong/

This'll be great in multi mob fights.

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Lmao, now it makes sense! I was picturing something like "Quick, DPS, sacrifice for your Dark Knight now!" or the game assuming we can foresee others dying! Unless you have a DRG in your party. You would be immortal.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

The thing is I'm wondering if it will stack because this will actually bring in DRK+WAR combinations, potentially pushing WAR+PLD away. Even if it is 30 Second CD, 20% Debuff on damage + 20% Damage reduction is wonderful. I know not of PLD's action wise, isn't the only thing separating DRK and PLD the Attribute INT and STR accordingly(debuff wise)

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Tested, it doesn't stack.

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

You mean Reprisal. The bad thing about it, it has a 30 recast time, so you can't keep it up for two reasons: RNG (parry) + CD. Compared to Storm's Eye, which can be up by following the OT routine. Reprisal is an actual "downgrade". It's useful, as they say, if there's no MNK in your group... and if the boss doesn't attack you with magical attacks. 'Cuz, you can't parry a nova AoE.

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The thing is I'm wondering if it will stack because this will actually bring in DRK+WAR combinations, potentially pushing WAR+PLD away. Even if it is 30 Second CD, 20% Debuff on damage + 20% Damage reduction is wonderful. I know not of PLD's action wise, isn't the only thing separating DRK and PLD the Attribute INT and STR accordingly(debuff wise)

We also have ALOT of tools to make Parry go off. We run more of a problem of using Reprisal often because the CD is too long. Also..Even if the boss uses magical attacks...that would be DRK's special area since we do have abilities to mitigate magic damage~

Question: Does anyone keeps the Enmity generators in the hotbars?

I moved em already in my "secondary priority" bar but....2-3 unleash+ salted earth and you wont ever lose aggro until you do something horrible wrong or you pulled way to much. after that i give everyone my lovely dot, pop blood prize shoot em a darksided inner demon and focus em down one by one...never had ANY problems in dungeons..

i wonder if i can use that space o,o° im still keeping them in the bars out of fear something will go wrong and i lose aggro but...never happened.

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

Tested, it doesn't stack.

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Back to Square One. I tried. </3 I was hoping to push PLD to the side juuuuust a little.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

Back to Square One. I tried. </3 I was hoping to push PLD to the side juuuuust a little.

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this is a issue they need to adress anyway. it cant be that a pala player will have his mt post guaranteed only because his job has a outstanding monopol on that. they should adapt the blizzard motto "bring the player, not the class" here...

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Originally Posted by Hypie

this is a issue they need to adress anyway. it cant be that a pala player will have his mt post guaranteed only because his job has a outstanding monopol on that. they should adapt the blizzard motto "bring the player, not the class" here...

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Well, the problem is PLD gets MT for most scenarios because of their double mitigation status(Parry and Shield) where as DRK and WAR only get Parry. However, if groups are willing to do off with the extra mitigation and opt for DPS. Then DRK can shine and overtake PLD(Especially with Storm's Eye going). Meeting some DPS checks would be easier since DRK can outdo PLD on the DPS standard.

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Originally Posted by Hypie

Question: Does anyone keeps the Enmity generators in the hotbars?

(sniped the rest)

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DRK seems to have a few redundant and questionably useful skills.

The enmity combo is vastly overshadowed by normal aoe moves + siphon combo for instance. Making it rather useless.

Dark Messenger is considered a trick move that is just a waste of a slot even when empowering (since there will always be better things to empower).

Blood Weapon and Blood Price should be one skill together (different effect based on grit)

Some skills are pretty much only useful with dark art, which begs the question why they dont just simply have a high mana cost.

Abyssal Drain is damn near just a better unleash, and I wonder why they arent just combined

So on and so forth. On my warrior, everything has its place. On my DRK I see redundancy and deja vu.

The Difference is that many of these Skills are OFF GCD and on the Warrior they are not.

The Question was more like "can i remove them for other skills or do i need em in raid environment?" Im still struggling if i remove them or not...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

Well, the problem is PLD gets MT for most scenarios because of their double mitigation status(Parry and Shield) where as DRK and WAR only get Parry. However, if groups are willing to do off with the extra mitigation and opt for DPS. Then DRK can shine and overtake PLD(Especially with Storm's Eye going). Meeting some DPS checks would be easier since DRK can outdo PLD on the DPS standard.

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Remove the Parry Option from PLD. Problem Solved. He doesnt have any "Parry" focused Def Cd's either so there is no ground for discussion too.

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Originally Posted by Hypie

Remove the Parry Option from PLD. Problem Solved. He doesnt have any "Parry" focused Def Cd's either so there is no ground for discussion too.

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That'd be more debatable to bring PLD vs. DRK. Then it just comes down to Debuffs at that point.

"Do we really -need- the STR down or extra DPS?"

The problem is, in regards to main tanking, is that both warrior and paladin have such innate tankiness, which drk is missing.

War have parry up + hp up + healing up in 1 move essentially.
Paladin have damage down + natural shield, so they are very tanky too.

Both will make great main tanks AND off tanks (while pld is a better progression tank, it can definitely be done with a warrior these days.)

Dark Knight just lacks the same innate tankiness when main tanking.

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Originally Posted by Violette

The problem is, in regards to main tanking, is that both warrior and paladin have such innate tankiness, which drk is missing.

War have parry up + hp up + healing up in 1 move essentially.
Paladin have damage down + natural shield, so they are very tanky too.

Both will make great main tanks AND off tanks (while pld is a better progression tank, it can definitely be done with a warrior these days.)

Dark Knight just lacks the same innate tankiness when main tanking.

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DRK's have that too...you just need to hit more Skills which i really like. You can smoothen out the DMG over a longer time. While PDL and WAR are like "okay im all beefed up do other stuff" DRK is more like "hey i need less heal...but still heal me okay?" and that over a way longer time than WAR or PDL.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hypie

DRK's have that too...you just need to hit more Skills which i really like. You can smoothen out the DMG over a longer time. While PDL and WAR are like "okay im all beefed up do other stuff" DRK is more like "hey i need less heal...but still heal me okay?" and that over a way longer time than WAR or PDL.

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Where do Drk's have the innate tankiness that war and pld have? Explain please.

To be fair, DRK do lack their tankiness. but they are more liable to -evade- damage altogether if they're using Dark Arts with Dark Dance. They do have their own Rampart and Sentinel~ Can naturally heal themselves without losing too much MP(Dark Arts + Soul Eater). By no means do this make them 'Tankier', even I feel like Dark Knights are soft when I'm going through content. It really does baffle me sometimes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

To be fair, DRK do lack their tankiness. but they are more liable to -evade- damage altogether if they're using Dark Arts with Dark Dance. They do have their own Rampart and Sentinel~ Can naturally heal themselves without losing too much MP(Dark Arts + Soul Eater). By no means do this make them 'Tankier', even I feel like Dark Knights are soft when I'm going through content. It really does baffle me sometimes.

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Unfortunately, DA-Dark Dance will reduce the effectiveness of blood price, lower blows and reprisal, which I find baffling. Why not make DA-DD increase physical defence along with parry? Or even like 80% parry like the drg's have.

And as said, our sentinel is lame. Why Yoshi-p san ;(