Am I only one who finds autoattack so slow ?

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Originally Posted by Falcus

I just don't like auto attack at all, it's slow and it can be a pain in the ass at times.
I've had times where I've been buffing, then I'll start scrolling through mobs and I'll randomly auto attack one that's next to me even though it was only targeted for maybe 1/4 of a second. (Playing as ARC and it's usually something that I don't want to fight)

Personally I wish we could turn it off altogether if we want to.

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You don't engage mobs when selecting target.

You only engage mobs after selecting and confirming selection.

Either you are unaware that you have actively engaged a mob, or you are exaggerating.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

You don't engage mobs when selecting target.

You only engage mobs after selecting and confirming selection.

Either you are unaware that you have actively engaged a mob, or you are exaggerating.

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ok went in there and tested it because i remember these issues before. The problem is that "confirming" is the act of bringing up your battle menu, which would be fine, except the favt that you bring up your skill ui, not only for battle but also for buffs, cures, etc. so if you are switching between monsters while looking for your cure skill, or raging strike, or trying to chakra yourself after you die, you will hit whatever you have targeted, people who play with a lot of macros are probably less likely to have any issues since it doesnt bring up the action bar.

Its a bad design that merely looking at your skill bar list, or even bringing it up to scroll to a different ability, automatically puts you in AA mode. Especially when you look at the old system where having something targeted did nothing at all, you would often target things just to pull up your menu and do a buff fast, when nothing is close it starts on you, but when something else is close it locks on that.

Looking at it carefully, this looks to be one of the things where a lot of play was tweaked around a different mechanic, and doesnt gel as well because some rules changed.

They either need to make it so pulling up your action bar doesnt initiate AA on a selected target, or make it so that AA uses a different mechanism to officially trigger. They should probably put something into place that signals to the user that the guy is going to actively AA now. Its more clear when you have a button that says attack, or AA, but if your not doing that some sort of different stances when in AA mode or something could also work. Its still needs a lot of tweaking imo

as a side note this also means you are even more likely to AA a monster that you are trying to do something special too, if you are close enough, like sleep, paralyze, bind etc. because it requires you to go open your action bar, and have the monster targeted. You can probably get around this by using macros with subtarget commands, once/if thats enabled, but its still pretty counter intuitive and awkward design wise.

LNC auto attack is pretty absurdly slow, but i think it's to maintain an emphasis on the Manual non weapon skill attacks which makes for more involved and entertaining combat.

that also reminds me, this AA issue is effecting mages, and they know it, but it seems to me they are going the wrong angle. They want to allow mages to use abilities without being in active mode, but it will take a lot of work. The only reason mages really need to not be in active mode is AA. So if they fix aa so it is its own skill, and a toggle, they wont have to worry spend what they say is a long time to fix it so mages can do things without having to draw their weapons.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

You don't engage mobs when selecting target.

You only engage mobs after selecting and confirming selection.

Either you are unaware that you have actively engaged a mob, or you are exaggerating.

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Steps to reproduce:

1) Click enemy once. Note that nothing happens at all at this point.

2) Use any ability whatsoever.

3) Accidentally punch enemy in the face.

Feel free to go test it out yourself.

As long as auto attack doesn't become the primary means of damage, etc... I think, it's alright.

I never run out of actions to do on my 50 lancer and 35 glad so far O_o it probably is kind of slow at low ranks but you get more abilities to kill time later on...

hmm. double attack class trait or a job trait. even a double, triple, and a quadruple attack materia would be sexy.

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Originally Posted by Physic

ok went in there and tested it because i remember these issues before. The problem is that "confirming" is the act of bringing up your battle menu, which would be fine, except the favt that you bring up your skill ui, not only for battle but also for buffs, cures, etc. so if you are switching between monsters while looking for your cure skill, or raging strike, or trying to chakra yourself after you die, you will hit whatever you have targeted, people who play with a lot of macros are probably less likely to have any issues since it doesnt bring up the action bar.

Its a bad design that merely looking at your skill bar list, or even bringing it up to scroll to a different ability, automatically puts you in AA mode. Especially when you look at the old system where having something targeted did nothing at all, you would often target things just to pull up your menu and do a buff fast, when nothing is close it starts on you, but when something else is close it locks on that.

Looking at it carefully, this looks to be one of the things where a lot of play was tweaked around a different mechanic, and doesnt gel as well because some rules changed.

They either need to make it so pulling up your action bar doesnt initiate AA on a selected target, or make it so that AA uses a different mechanism to officially trigger. They should probably put something into place that signals to the user that the guy is going to actively AA now. Its more clear when you have a button that says attack, or AA, but if your not doing that some sort of different stances when in AA mode or something could also work. Its still needs a lot of tweaking imo

as a side note this also means you are even more likely to AA a monster that you are trying to do something special too, if you are close enough, like sleep, paralyze, bind etc. because it requires you to go open your action bar, and have the monster targeted. You can probably get around this by using macros with subtarget commands, once/if thats enabled, but its still pretty counter intuitive and awkward design wise.

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By action bar you mean the thing with your skills/spells that number 0 to 9 right?
You can set that to permanently be on in your options menu.

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Originally Posted by Synapse

Gamepad is a lot better for FFXIV or any FF series. I never been a Keyboard fan, its like 4 buttons for movement and like 4 button for camera, fudge that :P.

No wonder people sucked at BR, doing BR on keyboard is a lot of work compared to Button 1: Load, Button 2: Fire!

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Actually, BR with a keyboard is super easy: Shift+action. launch with 'G' key. Just need to know the hotkey for that ^^

I don't understand how AAing when next to an enemy after initiating combat is a problem. I think maybe you should rethink you strategy if you are trying to buff or sleep an enemy from 2 ft away. That is literally the only case where in AA going off could possibly cause and issue and thats not really the games fault. That's User error.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Steps to reproduce:

1) Click enemy once. Note that nothing happens at all at this point.

2) Use any ability whatsoever.

3) Accidentally punch enemy in the face.

Feel free to go test it out yourself.

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*Punches random person* D: I'm sorry AA made me do it!

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Originally Posted by Kiote

I don't understand how AAing when next to an enemy after initiating combat is a problem. I think maybe you should rethink you strategy if you are trying to buff or sleep an enemy from 2 ft away. That is literally the only case where in AA going off could possibly cause and issue and thats not really the games fault. That's User error.

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its user error, but your UI and controls shouldnt require you to do something like turn around, or sheathe your weapon when you want to use skills between battles, like cure, blindside, invigorate, raging strike or any number of other skills you want to use before you do your first hit or even decide what monster is next to attack.

Its a bad design. You shouldnt design things that are likely to be misused by accident.

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Originally Posted by Carmillia

Actually, BR with a keyboard is super easy: Shift+action. launch with 'G' key. Just need to know the hotkey for that ^^

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and its easier with controller. for me it's r1 button to stack and start button to initiate.

I don't think reducing auto-attack delay a second or two is goign to make me feel like I'm "doing more".

I mean, it wouldn't hurt if it was faster, might make battles look a bit more action packed, but I wouldn't want it to get to the point where auto-attacks become so meaningless that we don't know how much damage they're doing or TP they're generating, and don't take each attack seriously.

I like missing an attack and then not know how I'm going to make up the TP I need to stop myself from dying.

i hope the people talking about "weaving" realize that you cant do it in this game due to every ability resetting auto attack delay, which is why it feels so absurdly slow on any class and is the main reason arc does more than lnc, because it doesn't rely on it's auto attack to deal dmg. i realize "weaving" may make it seem faster but it actually only makes it slower

Abilities reset auto-attack? They didn't in XI did they?

of course their gonna add haste gear / spell to fix this. Only real problem i have with auto attack is...

even with your weapon out for some reason you have to have that stupid action bar up to hit.
i have to press F to pull out weapon -- target mob(at this point it should auto attack anyway) then i have to press enter to pull up the action bar -.- all this plus the fact you have to chase the mob down b/c its moved while your doing all this

I hate the action bar.. rather it be like 11's menu to bottom left where you went though the ja/spells/ws the screen is still to crowded

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Originally Posted by Caliburn

Abilities reset auto-attack? They didn't in XI did they?

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I don't think it resets auto-attack, just delays it untill the ability has finished executing. Thus, using more abilities = less auto-attack = less TP build.

It's a real pain as a pugilist :P

btw I dont understand those of you saying the devs made a bad choice implementing auto attack because, well it would actually be the player bases fault since they let us vote on it and the majority wanted it

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

People are just being bratty, honestly.

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Your sig answers why people are raging about it.

hehe .

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

btw I dont understand those of you saying the devs made a bad choice implementing auto attack because, well it would actually be the player bases fault since they let us vote on it and the majority wanted it

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There was no question in the poll asking for autoattack...

And even if there was, the devs are supposed to be the voice of reason.

uuuuh yeah there was

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

uuuuh yeah there was

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lol no there wasnt.

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

lol no there wasnt.

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...lol shut up I had to double check. I could have sworn that was an option. Then again spamming actions was one of the "significant" issues people had with the system from before.

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

...lol shut up I had to double check. I could have sworn that was an option. Then again spamming actions was one of the "significant" issues people had with the system from before.

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Even I voted for that and I didn't want boring autoattack.

Spamming actions was a problem, but autoattack wasn't a solution.

Archer is best class now because it's the only not boring one.

I dunno I find Lancer pretty fun

maybe at higher levels but if you start from R1 under the new system it's just waiting. I run circles round the mob waiting for autoattack/TP because I get so bored.

oh I do that anyways! lol

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

maybe at higher levels but if you start from R1 under the new system it's just waiting. I run circles round the mob waiting for autoattack/TP because I get so bored.

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So take 20 minutes and get to level 15? Most people who are starting out need to learn the intricacies of how to play their class at a slower pace so that when they have access to a wider arsenal of abilities they use them properly.

The game should naturally speed up as you become more powerful and can use more abilities. Once a player is 30 (which should take even casual players a matter of days not weeks or months) they can access their guild mark purchasable basic attacks, as well as have enough Action Points to equip quite a few different buffs in order to define whatever role they are playing in the party, or solo. At this point they should no longer being "waiting for auto attack".

This is an extreme example also which doesn't have to apply, most melee classes like Archer/MRD/GLA access abilities long before that point which should keep them busy during a fight in between TP attacks. Lancer and Pugilists (edit: nevermind pugilists have plenty of abilities outside of TP to utilize as well through the countering system) may have less abilities to utilize at low levels but they also are capable of gaining TP much faster.

Honestly I've leveled several classes since 1.18 and have never once encountered the situation you are experiencing. Even sub 20 when I am soloing mobs I am doing much more than just sitting and wait for auto attack.

What are you fighting? What actions do you have equipped? What exactly do you do during a fight? I'd like to honestly help you if you were willing to listen to how others use the new system properly (as in not waiting for auto attack at least).

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

I don't think it resets auto-attack, just delays it untill the ability has finished executing. Thus, using more abilities = less auto-attack = less TP build.

It's a real pain as a pugilist :P

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Hmm. If I want TP though I'll hold off abilities for as long as possible without dying. Kinda excited sometimes. -shrug- Admittedly I haven't played XIV that long to understand how it works in this battle system, compared to XI.

I do agree that people are being a little bratty on these forums. I thought people understood that the battle system is being remade from the ground up and that it is not going to be perfect. Auto-attack is obviously better than spamming 1 to attack.

If auto-attack is made faster there will be no room for working out your strategy, deciding what ability to use next, not spamming actions....

Auto-attack is a little slow, but with all the abilities I have, with all the time I need to work out how I'm going to survive and take down multiple enemies, battles never feel slow to me.

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Originally Posted by Caliburn

Hmm. If I want TP though I'll hold off abilities for as long as possible without dying. Kinda excited sometimes. -shrug- Admittedly I haven't played XIV that long to understand how it works in this battle system, compared to XI.

I do agree that people are being a little bratty on these forums. I thought people understood that the battle system is being remade from the ground up and that it is not going to be perfect. Auto-attack is obviously better than spamming 1 to attack.

If auto-attack is made faster there will be no room for working out your strategy, deciding what ability to use next, not spamming actions....

Auto-attack is a little slow, but with all the abilities I have, with all the time I need to work out how I'm going to survive and take down multiple enemies, battles never feel slow to me.

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that's the issue. people realize they are remaking it and do not like the new system. if you ever spammed the basic abilities before the update then you were completely playing the system wrong.

you are right about one thing though. it's not perfect.... it's not even as good as what we had before. that's the reason i am full time crafting now.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

that's the issue. people realize they are remaking it and do not like the new system. if you ever spammed the basic abilities before the update then you were completely playing the system wrong.

you are right about one thing though. it's not perfect.... it's not even as good as what we had before. that's the reason i am full time crafting now.

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You had to spam the basic abilities because they were your source of TP. Once you get the extra guild attacks, this current system isn't really that far from the old one, though less button mashing goes to just building TP.

Also, I find it really ironic that someone who finds faults within the battle system goes full-time crafting, of all things, to escape the boredom.

it def resets the delay on auto attack, you ca sit next t a mob on mrd or any other battle class and chain abi for a good 30sec w/o attacking, it didnt do this in ffxi because the animation for the abi was cut short to make way for attack but in this game they decided that the animation needs to go of fully to keep up the quality of the game or w/e, there was a dev post about it, dont know why no one else seems to notice this but you can def do it 30 second may be an exaggeration but the point is with the way the battle system is now puts front line dd at a huge disadvantage in a game that is 75% front line dd just to 'keep up quality' and it resets per abi used and fyi it doesnt que an attack for after its used it resets to the weapon delay of your currently equipped wep

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Steps to reproduce:

1) Click enemy once. Note that nothing happens at all at this point.

2) Use any ability whatsoever.

3) Accidentally punch enemy in the face.

Feel free to go test it out yourself.

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1)select
2)confirm
3)attack

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Originally Posted by Frein

You had to spam the basic abilities because they were your source of TP. Once you get the extra guild attacks, this current system isn't really that far from the old one, though less button mashing goes to just building TP.

Also, I find it really ironic that someone who finds faults within the battle system goes full-time crafting, of all things, to escape the boredom.

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all i can tell you is for pug, there was alot more to your basic attacks usefullness and what you pressed than building tp.


i could elaborate but their were many different scenarios for how you would use the combination of basic attacks depending on what you were trying to do. Honestly the core of pugilist playstyle was about managing your basic attacks to balance your defense/offense/ ability to react to an enemy.

lnc from what i played was a bit different, that may be why you see little difference. The current style of play is fairly similar to what lnc was before, aside from trying to maximize peirce, but thats only in leves. Its probably why it feels almost the same to you, and totally different to me.

That aside even though the AA system is supposed to be an advancement, it still feels very rough and disconnected to me.

The combat has to be slow to cater to console gamers who use controllers. Sad fact really.

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Originally Posted by tation

it def resets the delay on auto attack, you ca sit next t a mob on mrd or any other battle class and chain abi for a good 30sec w/o attacking, it didnt do this in ffxi because the animation for the abi was cut short to make way for attack but in this game they decided that the animation needs to go of fully to keep up the quality of the game or w/e, there was a dev post about it, dont know why no one else seems to notice this but you can def do it 30 second may be an exaggeration but the point is with the way the battle system is now puts front line dd at a huge disadvantage in a game that is 75% front line dd just to 'keep up quality' and it resets per abi used and fyi it doesnt que an attack for after its used it resets to the weapon delay of your currently equipped wep

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from what ive seen, it doesnt cut it off completely, it may delay it somewhat, but its not the full time. However, the animations are definately pre empted. many times i wont see the animation of a swing, but ill see the number pop up, gain tp, and see it in the log.

To curahee, it may not be a problem for you, but its a problem for many people, and there is no advantage to the current targeting execution whenever you have an active window up. Why should you automaticaly attack something when scrolling or using abilities just because the game auto selected a differnt target? Its like your charachter is in an out of control bloodlust, just looking at your abilities while looking at a monster sets it into a blind rage

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Originally Posted by EmeraldHill

The combat has to be slow to cater to console gamers who use controllers. Sad fact really.

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this makes no sense, console games have some of the most button presses per minute as anyone games out there, and most of the people i know who complained about AA were talking about having to press 11111 or the kb buttons repeatedly. I dont think you can blame consoles for this, i think it rests firmly on pc players who are used to being able to eat a sandwich or type out their college thesis while in combat.