Lootmaster: The Greatest Abuse tool.

I am more excited about the option for greed only. This feature will allow real greed parties with nobody allowed to roll need because they know everyone else is rolling greed.

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Originally Posted by Hrist_Althea

As far as not joining groups that have this setting, you know it will be abused as often times people are so desperate for a clear that they will agree to almost anything.
Its just another tool for exploitation, plain and simple.

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How does being "desperate for a clear" even figure into it? The Lootmaster rule seems like something to be used specifically if you're farming for drops. I dunno about you, but if I'm farming for drops I'm not looking to "exploit" people that haven't cleared the instance yet. If someone's joining a farm party because they're "desperate for a clear", they're indulging in a fair bit of abuse themselves in my opinion. If someone does have it up on a clear party or a learning party or whatever, then just don't join it if you don't like the rules that are set up. Make your own party with a different loot rule.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

A lot of people keep responding with, "If you don't like the loot rules, don't join the group." That's not really a rational response. It can and will be abused. There are a lot of statics that are a man or two short and use the DF to fill out. Many of them will abuse the mechanic so the DF players don't get anything.

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It doesn't work if you're picking up randoms with Duty Finder.

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There are a lot of PF groups that are mostly guildmates or friends and they'll abuse the mechanic to prevent randoms from getting stuff.

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On the flip side, I've had pugs ninja loot from my static. Sure you can report the behavior but it doesn't change the fact that a static member lost out on loot that was rightfully theirs because someone rolled when they shouldn't have.

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It's easy to say, "just don't join those groups", but the problem is that they will be the norm, not the exception. Humans are inherently greedy and selfish, and that shows even more prominently in online games.

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You're right. That's why there's always the possibility that someone who joins a 7/8 static and basically begs for a clear (I've been to 4% but just haven't been able to clear it, please take me anyway I promise I won't mess up!) will just Need on all the loot and bail. Lootmaster protects the other seven people from a random that has very little to lose by ninja looting.

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The benefits of lootmaster don't really outweigh the negatives.

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That all depends on your point of view.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

A lot of people keep responding with, "If you don't like the loot rules, don't join the group." That's not really a rational response. It can and will be abused. There are a lot of statics that are a man or two short and use the DF to fill out. Many of them will abuse the mechanic so the DF players don't get anything.

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I fail to understand why refusing to join is ineffective. If groups are too greedy, people will secretly laugh at them and not join. Let's see how fast these groups fill.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

A lot of people keep responding with, "If you don't like the loot rules, don't join the group." That's not really a rational response. It can and will be abused. There are a lot of statics that are a man or two short and use the DF to fill out. Many of them will abuse the mechanic so the DF players don't get anything.

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They can't fill a party through DF and use lootmaster. It will revert to normal looting when a slot is filled through DF.

You have to form the group in advance, set the rules, and go in as you are currently formed. If you have 7/8...you have to tick the option to go in without filling the 8th slot (run it as a party of 7) to enable the lootmaster option. Otherwise you have fill that last slot yourself so you have a preformed party of 8 to enable lootmaster.

The notes clearly state if a member is filled through DutyFinder it reverts to normal loot rules.

Scumbags develop a bad reputation pretty fast (on small servers, anyway) so abusers may find themselves lonely if they are repeat offenders.

Just don't join master loot pugs. Join greed-only pugs if you're going for things that the default need-greed system isn't good for.

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Originally Posted by Raist

They can't fill a party through DF and use lootmaster. It will revert to normal looting when a slot is filled through DF.

You have to form the group in advance, set the rules, and go in as you are currently formed. If you have 7/8...you have to tick the option to go in without filling the 8th slot (run it as a party of 7) to enable the lootmaster option. Otherwise you have fill that last slot yourself so you have a preformed party of 8 to enable lootmaster.

The notes clearly state if a member is filled through DutyFinder it reverts to normal loot rules.

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If loot rules revert to normal in DF, I'm fine. Was only worried about chance leaders in PUGs getting all abusive.

As for pre-formed parties, well it depends. For statics and FCs I guess this is nice... though there's always that worst case of needing to curry up to the leaders in order to favor you. For Primal farming in PF... I doubt people will join Lootmaster anyway if they also want their shiny rare mount.

I am equally happy about this new Loot system, as I think in the right hands, it'll do a LOT of good.

At the same time, I do see the bad it can do. However, to those afraid of the bad, I must say that the lack of power right now for a leader to be able to enforce GOOD rules far outweighs the disadvantages of not having it. It's a lot like Vote Dismiss - if we didn't have it, we'd have a LOT more trolls and no recourse to deal with ****y people.

Now, I will say, I look forward to the day I see the Party Finder:

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Originally Posted by Theoretical Party Finder

<Primal> EX Mount Farm! Master Looter. /random for loot at the end. Only those who are alive can actually /random for it, everyone else will not be allowed to roll. No Excuses.

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And then having them die but giving themselves the same priority. <_<

Keep in mind that, Loot master or no, if you all agree to a system (eg "Everyone calls one, rest is greed"), the party leader uses Loot Master to ensure that, but then cheats you out of it? You can still report it. Breaking agreements made in chats - especially with regards to loot distribution - are absolutely reportable, and I seriously doubt SE will suddenly turn it to an "eh we don't care" when people are abusing game systems to cheat other players.

I'm personally really glad to have the upgrades/options to the systems.

they could always just do their default answer of disagreement of play style so wont get involved

I would say don't join those groups.... but actually, I expect the PF to fill with those groups, come HW, on top of the usual "know everything backwards at 10 times the normal speed or else we'll hunt down your entire city" ones. :/ I mean, let me be wrong, but that's my initial suspicion.

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Originally Posted by reillyblair

they could always just do their default answer of disagreement of play style so wont get involved

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You must have had a lazy GM or something
FINAL FANTASY XIV respect individual player’s unique play style. However, GM may take action to players whose play style prevents other player’s game play.

I think if ppl wanted to make a real big stink about someone taking all drops, they can call it a
Scam

In-game scams are defined as any inappropriate actions meant to defraud a fellow player with the intent to take in-game items or other possessions from them.

Looks like if I'm joining pony runs I'm avoiding loot mastered runs.

Enough ML douchebaggery in wow. Thanks.

Funny how all these horror stories from WoW never happened to me or anyone I know of during my many years of it over many different servers. I can think of hearing maybe one or two cases bout it. Masterloot abuse in WoW was rarer than rare mount drops.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

A lot of people keep responding with, "If you don't like the loot rules, don't join the group." That's not really a rational response. It can and will be abused. There are a lot of statics that are a man or two short and use the DF to fill out. Many of them will abuse the mechanic so the DF players don't get anything.

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No... if you don't want to risk being the 8th man joining a static group, then still DON'T JOIN
Also... DF players don't get anything? This won't be a DF rule lol

Come on people, think before posting

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Originally Posted by SovereignAegis

I think it is a horrible idea to have this as a static choice.

I think having the option is good, but I think the potential abuse and victims from it will heavily outweigh any potential good that comes.

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You can report loot ninja's and GM's will give those players warnings. Breaking pre-made party rules is very reportable, since it counts as a form of disruption.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

Funny how all these horror stories from WoW never happened to me or anyone I know of during my many years of it over many different servers. I can think of hearing maybe one or two cases bout it. Masterloot abuse in WoW was rarer than rare mount drops.

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You must never have Cross realm pugged then.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

Scumbags develop a bad reputation pretty fast (on small servers, anyway) so abusers may find themselves lonely if they are repeat offenders.

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The exact issue is the fact that people on various servers are queued and matched with people on other servers. Just because I know some jerk that stole items doesn't mean we're even on the same server

To all the people who are worried about having to kiss up to their fc leader now if they ever want to get a drop - why are you in that kind of fc anyway? I can, without any doubt say that my fc mates would never abuse the system on fellow fc mates. If your first thought is that your fc is gonna rob you, I seriously wonder why you are with these people in the first place o.O

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Originally Posted by Atoli

To all the people who are worried about having to kiss up to their fc leader now if they ever want to get a drop - why are you in that kind of fc anyway? I can, without any doubt say that my fc mates would never abuse the system on fellow fc mates. If your first thought is that your fc is gonna rob you, I seriously wonder why you are with these people in the first place o.O

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huh? ,dont think ppl are talking about FC parties here , ppl are worried about Party finder.

And they shouldn't have to be. If you join a party and everyone has locked an item, then that person has a right to that item if it drops. If the Loot Master doesn't follow their own rules, then you (or rather, the person cheated out of the loot they locked) can report them for scamming players (it does counts as scamming. Loot Master is scamming players to do content with them without the intention of giving those players what they're after. Therefore, reportable offence).

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Originally Posted by Atoli

To all the people who are worried about having to kiss up to their fc leader now if they ever want to get a drop - why are you in that kind of fc anyway? I can, without any doubt say that my fc mates would never abuse the system on fellow fc mates. If your first thought is that your fc is gonna rob you, I seriously wonder why you are with these people in the first place o.O

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I took it to mean that the FC would favor its own members, and if you're filling in a missing slot, and are not part of their FC, you're boned.

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

I honestly don't see the point in having a lootmaster. Greed Only option I understand. I guess you could make a case that you could lock a specific drop and then the lootmaster distributes it accordingly. I suspect that if they don't follow through with this agreement, he'll be subject to discipline. Still, it's a lot of trust to place in one person you don't know well.

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So far I've been running with my brother, sister in law, local friends, and a friend of my brother's. There are times where the Lootmaster option would be ideal for us. So it does have uses.

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Originally Posted by SovereignAegis

The exact issue is the fact that people on various servers are queued and matched with people on other servers. Just because I know some jerk that stole items doesn't mean we're even on the same server

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how do you do this with premade parties or party finder parties?
Only way to play with players on other servers that I know is using DF to match you with random players, that give the party automatic the standard loot rule.

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

I took it to mean that the FC would favor its own members, and if you're filling in a missing slot, and are not part of their FC, you're boned.

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Then don't join. You can only get in one of those parties with party invite or with party finder, not with duty finder.

The more pressing question is can people change the loot for DF groups...that is what im worried about.

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Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

The more pressing question is can people change the loot for DF groups...that is what im worried about.

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If you actually bothered to read the patch note, or even just searched for the keywords, you'll see that loot rules can only be customized if (1) you enter with the designated number of people in your party for the particular content (i.e. pre-mades); or (2) you enable the option to enter with a partial party (i.e. nobody comes in from DF).

Give up trying to explain it, the usual the-sky-is-falling crowd cannot be reasoned with

Yes you will be forced to accept this rule in DF.
Yes the lootmaster is always someone else who always steals every piece of loot.
Yes it will happen to you every time.
Yes there is no way to avoid it
Yes they will put this rule up in PF and you will be forced to join that group
Yes you should quit now

/sarcasm (except last bit)

I don't see the issue. It's completely voluntary and mostly for statics and FCs. I seriously doubt that it will become any kind of norm for pugs and it won't take long for people to realize no one is going to join their loot master farm party. I know i wouldnt.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

Funny how all these horror stories from WoW never happened to me or anyone I know of during my many years of it over many different servers. I can think of hearing maybe one or two cases bout it. Masterloot abuse in WoW was rarer than rare mount drops.

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Y'know me too... and I played for years.

Almost as if people are talking about this in a theoretical sense and have little to no actual experience with it. Or straight up didn't read the patch notes properly, I see a lot of that too.

Master looter is a tool. Like any tool it can be abused. You don't blame the tool for that, you blame the abuser. And I have to say that in a game this small, someone stealing loot isn't going to get away with it for very long. There just isn't that big a crowd for him to vanish in to.

If a group of 7 people wants to help me get a first time clear on something challenging they can have whatever drops as far as I'm concerned. And then when I'm ready to farm it and am sure I can carry my own weight, I'll have no reason to join a party in PF with loot rules that work contrary to my interests.

Seriously.. Why people are saying that lootmaster system is good for static like it's a huge advantage to have, isnt static is about trust in the first place? It's kinda like the leader of the static is questioning the looting motive of its members to perform such restriction in looting.. While i do see this gives more harm than good in term of party finder system where in culture the power of friendship is about real life friends>FC>LS>randoms.. And it's when the lootmaster will distribute the loots to their beloved one first and disband the party before the random even get a chance to get any.. It doesnt always happen.. But i know this will happen..

It's good for statics because it saves a lot of hassles.

Imagine a progression static, progressing in content where the complete loot list is not known. Something drops. If you leave the loot rules at the regular need-greed, then to give the loot to a particular person, you need to have everyone else pass, and that person either need or greed. With master looting, you simply assign it to the intended person. If it's something nobody calls, then the leader can simply assign it to an all-greed roll, from where people can roll greed or pass.

Yes it is more work for the leader, but one person is less likely to err more than when the action involves 8 people. It's more reliable for one to have a list of who gets what, than to have 8 people all remember who gets what so they can pass/greed accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Airget

Exactly, it's not like you can be blindsided by the rule it tells you in a bright color what the rule is so if you don't approve you can easily leave.

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However would you not get punished for not joining them when the queue pops? If they want to keep all the loot to themselves in a CT or DNG then the people who queue up in progress shouldn't be punished for withdrawing from the queue, or leaving once inside.

Lootmaster would be great for my static, this is because so much stuff drops to the floor.
We all assume someone else wants a certain piece cause its their main job, then they say no after most of us have passed on it,with lootmaster we don't have to worry about loot it'll atleast go to someone who needs or wants it.

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Originally Posted by IceWing

However would you not get punished for not joining them when the queue pops?

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Loot rules cannot be changed if you join the DF. You can only change loot rules if and only if:

(1) You join as a full premade; or
(2) You select to enter content with a partial party.

In both cases, there will be nobody coming into the party from the DF queues.

I am very surprised that there is a thread about this because...

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Loot rules cannot be changed if you join the DF. You can only change loot rules if and only if:

(1) You join as a full premade; or
(2) You select to enter content with a partial party.

In both cases, there will be nobody coming into the party from the DF queues.

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^ This information was included in the patch notes.

Personally I would not join a lootmaster party with people that I barely know.

Want to clear that duty with other people, without using lootmaster? Then make your own party and advertise it on the party finder instead of waiting for someone else to make the party.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

There are a lot of statics that are a man or two short and use the DF to fill out. Many of them will abuse the mechanic so the DF players don't get anything.

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Calm your horses

Those rules can only be used in full premades or while using the undersized option. Thats why only the party leader can set it. When you use the DF with 7/8 people you cant use preset rules and it will default to Need/Greed

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

There are a lot of PF groups that are mostly guildmates or friends and they'll abuse the mechanic to prevent randoms from getting stuff.

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If your Partyleader sets it up without telling so before in the PF youll see it in flashy color on the Duty Display, just withdraw if you dont like it and leave the group if it wasnt a mistake. And even if it will be the norm - make your own groups then.

There is nothing to panic about... read the notes more carefully - this is not like WoW where the rules could be changed at any point inside a dungeon and make it possible to ninja gear right before it drops...

I trust my friends enough to know they will not "accidentally" stole an item so we will not use it and on the other side I will never enter a PF as I don't trust others. The lootmaster rule may end up being used only inside statics after all which I honestly hope.

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Originally Posted by Magistrella

And even if it will be the norm - make your own groups then.

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Some people (read: a lot of people) seem to conveniently forget that, to be honest. Anyone can make a party finder group. Don't like the groups that you see on PF? Make your own... it's not rocket science ><

It only becomes "the norm" if everyone else goes along with it even if they don't like it.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

huh? ,dont think ppl are talking about FC parties here , ppl are worried about Party finder.

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It's exactly what were concerned about.