Summoner gets no new pets in expansion

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Originally Posted by Zhamkyong

(sorry for the multipost, i couldnt make all of it into one)

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Editing a post doesn't have a 1000 character limit. Copy and paste into an edit and you can get it all.

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Originally Posted by Zhamkyong

That was a joke, right?

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Yes and no. Summons in all Final Fantasy games (the ones that just appear do a thing and then disappear) are pretty much the -aja of the elemental spells. Fire, Fira, Firaga, Hellfire (or Firaja). They were pretty much flashier Black Magic spells.

On a side note, I'm sure summoners will have the ability to spawn the new minions that will come out in 3.0 !

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Yes and no. Summons in all Final Fantasy games (the ones that just appear do a thing and then disappear) are pretty much the -aja of the elemental spells. Fire, Fira, Firaga, Hellfire (or Firaja). They were pretty much flashier Black Magic spells.

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Yes and no, and it totally depends on which game you are referring to.

Also, not every aeon/summon/esper/GF was based on an element. A lot were, but you are generalizing it a bit.

Well it's all examples. The point I was making is that summons are pretty much flashier Black Magic (and some White Magic) spells. Take away the summon, but keep the effect (FFIX is the best example here) and what do you have?

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Originally Posted by VoltaAsura

Yes and no, and it totally depends on which game you are referring to.

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III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, XII, XV, and Tactics/A1/A2. In all of those games, summoning takes a secondary role (even for Rydia) or acts as a really fancy AoE Black Mage.

So, a large majority of the series. As opposed to X, XI and XIII doing (mostly unused) sustained summons.

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

Summoner had no place in any endgame content until Alexander

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I have no stake in this arguement as I am very much looking forward to trying out the new abilities and have hopes the Egi glamour will open up new and exciting possibilities we would not otherwise have...

..but I distinctly remember my endgame LS using the few summoners we had (myself included) quite a bit. One example being a certain Jailer in Sea. I cannot remember its name but it was an oblong shape and it would continually change what damage type could harm it (slash, blunt, pierce, etc). Our tanks would kite the Jailer around the room and we would summon and time our bloodpacts to hit the target just as it was passing into range. We were also used extensively on fights such as The Wyrmking Descends (Bahamut and his brood). We would main Leviathan spinning dives for this fight.

We were predator claw turrets on Tiamat, I once had to main heal one of our parties with sub whm and healing ruby II during a Fafnir (very effectively I might add) and during the time that RMT were really bad in Sky we would form Titan walls to slow down their kiting tank during Zipacna after they would steal hate via cure and run off with it to turn the name white (this eventually led to very liberal use of /blockaid). Always used during Cerberus. I only had to use a different job once (RNG for chaining shadowbind with other rangers) during our 20+ hour Absolute Virtue marathon (which of course ended in failure and crushed dreams).

This, however, was another lifetime ago entirely. I just wanted to say as a SMN main in XI and in a very active endgame LS none of the summoners were ever underutilized or ignored and we had plenty of people to spare if they didn't want to take us. Thankfully that was never the case. I will be going to bed now as I am very tired. I hope everyone here has a pleasant evening and can continue to get along as a summoner community in XIV ^^
Farewell~

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Traditionally the Summoner summoned the primal for 50-90s which had six different skills plus the ultimate and replaced the entire party. In an MMOS setting a traditional Summoner would have the primal replace the player character for 90s.

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Which defnitly would work great. :D
Just summon your primal and you don't have to bother about divebombs, tethers, earthshaker, gazes, debuffs (e.g. mechanics) for 50-90s. Even better if my primal was so huge, that the other players are so distracted / obliterated, that THEY will die for sure.

I think SE needs to stop shoehorning this job so much.

So first they make an ego for each role (bar healer for obvious reasons) now they can't make any new egis because they'd be redundant. Why didn't they foresee this and plan ahead accordingly? Are they just making things up as they go along?

Now SMN get bahamut trance, cool! But why specifically bahamut? Why not just "summoners trance" opening up the possibility to be able to channel other elder primal forms in the future?

The job will continue to get gimmicks slapped onto it because they aren't future proofing it with a consistent feel and theme and eventually it'll just be a mess of miss matched gimmick abilities

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

Which defnitly would work great. :D
Just summon your primal and you don't have to bother about divebombs, tethers, earthshaker, gazes, debuffs (e.g. mechanics) for 50-90s. Even better if my primal was so huge, that the other players are so distracted / obliterated, that THEY will die for sure.

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Summoners will be the most sought out Job for progression raids that require absolute perfection from everyone. Guaranteed.

Deifact, they most likely are creating new Egi's, but they'll be a glamour. So imagine Shiva playing Ifrit's role, Ramuh playing Garuda's, etc. They'll all have the same abilities, but naturally with their own names and animations (Burning Strike = (single-target) Icebrand. Crimson Cyclone = Whiteout. Flaming Crush = Glacial Bash). Emerald Carbuncle and Garuda-Egi are exactly the same with their abilities.

Dunno what could be said about Dreadwyrm Trance, though.

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Originally Posted by Woggers

Can't Stop, Won't Stop!

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will stop when an other job gets a change people didn't expect

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Traditionally the Summoner summoned the primal for 50-90s which had six different skills plus the ultimate and replaced the entire party. In an MMOS setting a traditional Summoner would have the primal replace the player character for 90s.

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Traditionally what ? Have you played before FFXII came ? Summons were a huge MP sucking spell unleashing hell on the enemies. Basically, that would be depleting your MP bar by a third every summon for 4k damage, and wait until it's full again. Do you really want that ?

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Originally Posted by Deifact

The job will continue to get gimmicks slapped onto it because they aren't future proofing it with a consistent feel and theme and eventually it'll just be a mess of miss matched gimmick abilities

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Except that it has one. Summoned Egis (And backed up by lore too, look at that) and sustained damage.

Only thing it got from Trance was a half decent AoE (since Bane blows), and Bahamut because well...he's a primal summon maybe? Mind is blown.

These threads could at least have decent arguments for once...

https://kmpunksays.files.wordpress.c...9k8f.png?w=830

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Originally Posted by Deifact

Now SMN get bahamut trance, cool! But why specifically bahamut? Why not just "summoners trance" opening up the possibility to be able to channel other elder primal forms in the future?

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Probably because Bahamuts attack during the events of the Calamity saturated Eorzea with ungodly amounts of his aether. Which remain to this day.

None of the other Elder Primals have made such a mark within Eorzae as far as we've been told/shown.

Not gonna lie I totally forgot scholars existed as a job.

I mean, not that they aren't good or effective or anything...but yea. I forgot they existed.

New lvl 60 scholar stance:

Tonberry form - devolve into a tonberry, murder your entire party. You alone gain the boss's loot.

Personally I am fine with just the glamour system. Seems like an easy idea that can be further added to with each new exapnsion/primal. Maybe a few years from now a new pet that may fit another role such as a additional debug pet that adds more debuffs or new debuffs etc..

We're gettin a glamour system so our ifrit can "look" like ramuh.

Cause.. ya know.. thats the same thing.

I don't think summoners need new egis at all. Maybe SE should have implemented the pet glamour system with Heavensward instead of "please look forward to it" but there was no reason to use Ramuh or shiva instead of garuda or ifrit.
Maybe you would have used them for the vanity, for their figure, but not for their abilities. But... Damn. You have the power to summon the power of bahamut. You will be able to akh morn!!! That's just... Amazing!!!!

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Originally Posted by lordparanoia

I don't think summoners need new egis at all. Maybe SE should have implemented the pet glamour system with Heavensward instead of "please look forward to it" but there was no reason to use Ramuh or shiva instead of garuda or ifrit.
Maybe you would have used them for the vanity, for their figure, but not for their abilities. But... Damn. You have the power to summon the power of bahamut. You will be able to akh morn!!! That's just... Amazing!!!!

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This argument has been used plenty of times already and frankly its tired. Enough people have already explained again and again how easy it would be to simply give each pet a more specific role to have situational uses but far too many people lack the imagination to understand how the system would work.

If more egis had skills on par with Garuda's contagion and more situational uses (such as a pet with aoe auto-attacks for example) then we would see more use of all the pets based on the fight. Hell we might even see situations that warrant switching pets mid-fight which a lot of people have called for.

People saying new pets would serve no purpose are seemingly blind to the fact that things can be modified, tweaked and rebalanced. It's very much doable. Plenty of other MMOs have pet classes with six and more pets so there is absolutely nothing preventing SE from implementing them here. I really struggle to understand why so many people cannot comprehend this.

Yes, the Dreadwyrm Trance looks great and is a great addition to the SMN gameplay but for a pet job to not get new pets (which are its defining feature) is just a little sad. I'm hoping the pet glamour system gives us a chance to do some quests to unlock the other egi appearances at least since they've only outright named Carbuncle so far.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

This argument has been used plenty of times already and frankly its tired. Enough people have already explained again and again how easy it would be to simply give each pet a more specific role to have situational uses but far too many people lack the imagination to understand how the system would work.

If more egis had skills on par with Garuda's contagion and more situational uses (such as a pet with aoe auto-attacks for example) then we would see more use of all the pets based on the fight. Hell we might even see situations that warrant switching pets mid-fight which a lot of people have called for.

People saying new pets would serve no purpose are seemingly blind to the fact that things can be modified, tweaked and rebalanced. It's very much doable. Plenty of other MMOs have pet classes with six and more pets so there is absolutely nothing preventing SE from implementing them here. I really struggle to understand why so many people cannot comprehend this.

Yes, the Dreadwyrm Trance looks great and is a great addition to the SMN gameplay but for a pet job to not get new pets (which are its defining feature) is just a little sad. I'm hoping the pet glamour system gives us a chance to do some quests to unlock the other egi appearances at least since they've only outright named Carbuncle so far.

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Sure, enough people have explained again and again how easy it would be to give each pet a more specific role to have situational uses, but almost none have actually given specific examples which are viable and balanced. A pet with AoE auto-attacks is a specific example but considering that no other job in the game has an AoE auto-attack, does that not seem a little unbalanced? Now we're back to the Mythflox days only instead of BLM or gtfo it's SMN or gtfo.

We also get vague comments like "make all the pets DPS with various party buffs to differentiate them". Okay, so now you have all the summons that essentially do the same thing (sounds like a glamour) while giving various different party buffs or mob debuffs. The problem would be that it will quickly be determined which is the 'best' party buff and if you aren't using the 'best' one then you'll be chastised (haven't SMNs complained ad nauseam about essentially being forced to use Garuda?) Furthermore, why not combine several of the buffs/debuffs onto one of the 3 current summons and implement the glamour so that the individual summon is more powerful, and a summoner doesn't have to lose DPS to resummon mid fight?

Lastly, you're essentially asking SE to spend significant more time designing and balancing SMN than it does for the other jobs. Implementing and maintaining abilities for 6 (or more) unique summons plus the summoner itself.

I seriously struggle to understand why so many people cannot comprehend how much of a balancing nightmare they are asking for while offering no viable suggestions. Sure you had one with an AoE Auto-attacking egi... now let's get 5 more and make sure that they don't overpower summoner, feel unique, and are each viable enough that people will choose them for a variety of situations. It's a much more daunting task than people make it out to be, especially for just one of 13 jobs.

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Originally Posted by Svalitz

Just gonna leave this here

http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Blood_Pact

If you take a look at the list of unique Pet abilities available to Summoner in XI, you'll see there's over 70!

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There may have been 70, but all anyone used was Predator Claws. They wasted their time.

The appeal of the XI Summoner was the plethora of different support (a few healing too) and burst abilities and having cool looking avatars and flashy moves. The downside was obviously the abysmal auto-attack dmg from the avatar, the long'ish delay between being able to use avatar abilities and the none existent kit for the actual Summoner besides the avatars, forcing them to often take the role of a gimp healer of sorts.

They have essentially flipped the XI Summoner into the current XIV Summoner.

The pet(avatar) has decent auto attack damage, can use abilities in swift succession (if only they were useful), and the Summoner now has a kit to utilize. However the pets look bleh, lack any real burst and support abilities and have taking the role of the of the XI Summoner, except being a gimp healer there a turret for extra damage. The interaction with your pet has vastly diminished and options reduced to a fraction of its XI counterpart.

I think what most were ideally looking for was a middle ground of these extremes. The decision to make them into niche roles is fine and I feel like I can live with the egi/glamour system to come, but they need a rework of pet abilities/potencies to make them stand out, to be something outside of a turret (Bring back pet Party Buffs!). Giving the summoner stuff to do was great but at the cost of almost totally neglecting our pet it loses any semblance of being a -pet- job. Address these and I'm certain the majority of the summoner community would be pleased, or at least complain a helluva lot less.

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Originally Posted by AzraelX

If people want FFXI summoner- umm go play ff11 its still there.. i checked out videos of it ..all the summer is doing is standing there as the summon attacks- granted that the summons were huge- the overall job looked boring as hell.

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play the lvl100+ summoner and come back... you have fulltime job now


SE excuse......

S?: Sorry but you cant become new egis- you have a melee,a tank and a rng egi

1 day later
S?: Sorry but you cant become new tank job- were have 2 tanks
Sorry but you cant become new healer- were have 2
Sorry but you cant become a dmg job- you know the rest

Give the Smn more dots, enemyspells and and and, but call him not more Smn.
Is more BLU as a pet job....

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Originally Posted by Dement

Sure, enough people have explained again and again how easy it would be to give each pet a more specific role to have situational uses, but almost none have actually given specific examples which are viable and balanced. A pet with AoE auto-attacks is a specific example but considering that no other job in the game has an AoE auto-attack, does that not seem a little unbalanced? Now we're back to the Mythflox days only instead of BLM or gtfo it's SMN or gtfo.

We also get vague comments like "make all the pets DPS with various party buffs to differentiate them". Okay, so now you have all the summons that essentially do the same thing (sounds like a glamour) while giving various different party buffs or mob debuffs. The problem would be that it will quickly be determined which is the 'best' party buff and if you aren't using the 'best' one then you'll be chastised (haven't SMNs complained ad nauseam about essentially being forced to use Garuda?) Furthermore, why not combine several of the buffs/debuffs onto one of the 3 current summons and implement the glamour so that the individual summon is more powerful, and a summoner doesn't have to lose DPS to resummon mid fight?

Lastly, you're essentially asking SE to spend significant more time designing and balancing SMN than it does for the other jobs. Implementing and maintaining abilities for 6 (or more) unique summons plus the summoner itself.

I seriously struggle to understand why so many people cannot comprehend how much of a balancing nightmare they are asking for while offering no viable suggestions. Sure you had one with an AoE Auto-attacking egi... now let's get 5 more and make sure that they don't overpower summoner, feel unique, and are each viable enough that people will choose them for a variety of situations. It's a much more daunting task than people make it out to be, especially for just one of 13 jobs.

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Considering you went to such lengths to simply reword my post against me despite missing the entire point I'm just going to assume you're unable to actually discuss this properly. Other games have achieved what players are asking for. Other games have done it in a way that is balanced. I have made plenty of suggestions in plenty of threads but people such as yourself love to just blindly shoot them down due to a lack of ability to think beyond what we already have.

For the record we have many jobs with what amounts to an AOE auto-attack already. BLM, DRG, MNK, WAR and other jobs have spammable aoe abilities with much reduced potency that is higher dps beyond a certain number of targets. There is no reason why an egi cannot have an equivalent ability. Oh and guess what, MCH turrets have exactly that so it's clearly doable. You clearly aren't actually trying to think about this at all.

When it comes to more dev time being spent on one job over others I take it you haven't noticed that's how balancing works? WAR, NIN and DRG have all been the focus of a balancing pass with some pretty significant skill changes as part of that. Why are you suddenly so opposed to SMNs getting the same needed treatment?

I'm sorry but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

http://i.imgur.com/uTIb3Gh.gif

The pets can't handle the snow.

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Originally Posted by FreeLancer4

Address these and I'm certain the majority of the summoner community would be pleased, or at least complain a helluva lot less.

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I am almost positive that the (silent) majority of the SMN community is fine with how SMN is. The one's who aren't are most likely the vocal minority.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

Considering you went to such lengths to simply reword my post against me despite missing the entire point I'm just going to assume you're unable to actually discuss this properly. Other games have achieved what players are asking for. Other games have done it in a way that is balanced. I have made plenty of suggestions in plenty of threads but people such as yourself love to just blindly shoot them down due to a lack of ability to think beyond what we already have.

For the record we have many jobs with what amounts to an AOE auto-attack already. BLM, DRG, MNK, WAR and other jobs have spammable aoe abilities with much reduced potency that is higher dps beyond a certain number of targets. There is no reason why an egi cannot have an equivalent ability. Oh and guess what, MCH turrets have exactly that so it's clearly doable. You clearly aren't actually trying to think about this at all.

When it comes to more dev time being spent on one job over others I take it you haven't noticed that's how balancing works? WAR, NIN and DRG have all been the focus of a balancing pass with some pretty significant skill changes as part of that. Why are you suddenly so opposed to SMNs getting the same needed treatment?

I'm sorry but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

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Ninja has never had any major rework in the last patches drgs was barely anything major as well really the only major changes came to warrior so i don't see how that's more dev time spent on them really i guess at this point you could say smn are getting more dev time owing the the fact that they're making a glamour system for them

And WAR desperately needed those changes, otherwise no one would have included WAR in their parties. Ever.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

I'm sorry but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

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I just think the current suggestions that I've seen for additional egis are a waste of time.

An AoE auto attack? Ok if something dies fast enough that Contagion won't really matter for dungeon content, ok that just invalidates Garuda / Ifrit in that scenario.

If it's too strong? Might even beat Garuda in AoE scenarios.

I think the person who doesn't understand is yourself. The balancing involved with it to keep all the pets viable at the same time, would be a never ending process as some that emerge will hurt those before almost all the time. The same has happened to several other games WoW included, that had a pet-esque class. Whatever emerges the strongest wins in the end. In other MMOs, the only time other pets were validated at the same time, usually had to deal with the caster having to choose a particular skill tree, and that tree incorporating skills to be used with that particular pet. That doesn't work the same way here for obv reasons.

I'm also curious about all these countless MMOs, that have managed to have numerous Pets and maintain all of them at the same time and none overshadow the others while still using a battle system / skill system like FFXIV.

Also with your WAR example, there is a very big difference between was is needed and what is wanted.

Your argument for SMN is what you want the class to have, not what is needed by the class.
The adjustments made to WAR were needed to even bring it on par with PLD in end-game content.

They didn't even rework WAR.
They buffed their kit to bring them in line.
Huge difference.

Though it was a very big buff.

A massive buff, yes. Their only defensive cool down was Foresight (Storm's Path didn't even give mobs the 10% Damage Down debuff and Holmgang was just a leash that didn't have the added "can't drop below 1" trait. WAR's were useless before 2.1 came out. Something which SMN has never suffered). Vengeance was some weird "Rough Skin" ability and Inner Beast just dealt damage and absorbed 300% of the damage dealt.

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I am almost positive that the (silent) majority of the SMN community is fine with how SMN is. The one's who aren't are most likely the vocal minority.

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The majority, silent or otherwise, would welcome improved pet functionality and presence.

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Originally Posted by FreeLancer4

The majority, silent or otherwise, would welcome improved pet functionality and presence.

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Ah yes. The voice of humanity. We were looking for you to speak on our behalf.

Pets function and are there. You can always not summon one and face tank a mob/attempt to dps a boss if you feel it lacks presence.

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Originally Posted by FreeLancer4

The majority, silent or otherwise, would welcome improved pet functionality and presence.

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Well yeah, if you don't have them on Obey and only use Garuda. With Ifrit, you are very well aware of his presence and if he's taking damage from this or that, you're going to notice.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

Considering you went to such lengths to simply reword my post against me despite missing the entire point I'm just going to assume you're unable to actually discuss this properly. Other games have achieved what players are asking for. Other games have done it in a way that is balanced. I have made plenty of suggestions in plenty of threads but people such as yourself love to just blindly shoot them down due to a lack of ability to think beyond what we already have.

For the record we have many jobs with what amounts to an AOE auto-attack already. BLM, DRG, MNK, WAR and other jobs have spammable aoe abilities with much reduced potency that is higher dps beyond a certain number of targets. There is no reason why an egi cannot have an equivalent ability. Oh and guess what, MCH turrets have exactly that so it's clearly doable. You clearly aren't actually trying to think about this at all.

When it comes to more dev time being spent on one job over others I take it you haven't noticed that's how balancing works? WAR, NIN and DRG have all been the focus of a balancing pass with some pretty significant skill changes as part of that. Why are you suddenly so opposed to SMNs getting the same needed treatment?

I'm sorry but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

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Your point: SMN needs more pets because its easy and other MMOs have more pets. My point: SMNs don't need more pets because it's going to create a balancing nightmare against itself and the other jobs in a game which has accomplished incredibly well maintained balancing up to this point.

If you have made so many suggestions that were balanced and viable, please share them as I'm truly interested. I don't have the time to dig through 1000s of pages of SMNs lamenting and good pet concepts being discussed before in the ones I have glanced through aren't springing to mind.

For the record no jobs have an AoE auto-attack. BLM has spells with longer cast times and high MP costs which AoE, having to switch stances more frequently between Astral and Umbral to maintain MP to compensate. DRG and MNK have AoE attacks with large TP costs which will run you dry on TP rather quick, not to mention that MNK has to be in a certain stance to use it's AoE ability that actually does any significant damage, unless we're going to argue that Arm of the Destroyer spam is worth it. So if you Perfect Balance you can get 5 AoE attacks at great TP cost then you'll need to do 2 single attacks for every 1 AoE attack, presuming you have enough TP left, you can also only do this PB Rock Breaker spam every 3 minutes. WAR again the AoE aspect comes at incredible TP cost or 5 wrath stacks so no this is not spammable, you will run dry on TP, you only have one infuriate, and without infuriate you need a minimum of 5 GCDs, assuming you use Vengeance and Berserk for a wrath stack.

In regards to MCH, you might have me there with the key word being might. We don't know exactly how MCH works, we do know that they do have an AoE auto-attack turret but we don't know if that turret has other abilities beyond being able to be retooled as a TP/MP regeneration station. If that's the case, then your AoE auto-attack pet would likely get 0 abilities as well so as to not OP it, something I'd presume the SMN community would not like very much since they've been very vocal about how little pet interaction there is already. Alas, let's not base our arguments off of jobs which aren't out yet, and additionally is the new job that we have the least information about, shall we?

As far as dev time, I think you're grasping at straws here. WAR, MNK, DRG and even SMN already have all been re-balanced, yes. WAR was by far the most extensive but it did not add any new skills and just changed existing ones which was necessary since it was a joke against a PLD in the early days. MNK, DRG, and SMN were all re-balanced in regards to minor percentage changes to greased lightning, potency changes, removal of positional requirements, and lower the MP cost of one spell... not exactly massive alterations and I'm not opposed to SMNs getting the same treatment. SMN is getting exactly what it needs to balance it against the other DPS - lower MP cost of Ruin II so that they don't run dry too quick (already implemented), some form of burst damage (Akh Morn likely or something else to come out of Bahamut's Trance or even tri-disaster could be seen as such so that the Fester bombs can start early) for those pesky add phases. I am fully behind these balancing tweaks as they should make SMN a much better class to take into end-game encounters and dungeons alike. What you're asking for is that while every other job gets 5 new skills in the increased level cap, SMN gets 5 new skills, Levi, Shiva and Ramuh get 5 completely unique skills each to make them enticing to bring to combat, and Garuda, Titan and Ifrit get balanced against Levi, Shiva and Ramuh so that they're all viable in some situations. Then, once they're all balanced against each other, the job itself has to be balanced against the other 5 DPS classes.

Frankly, if SMNs want all these different types of pets so that they can perform all the different roles in a party then let them be a jack of all trades. The flip side of the coin is that a jack of all trades is a master of none. When it comes to endgame progression, most statics are going to fill their slots with roles which master in certain aspects. SMNs will be relegated to waiting on the sidelines until there's enough echo that they don't burden the team.

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Originally Posted by Sakurakiss123

Please SE stop being bloody lazy with skills and abilities

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Summoners likely got more attention in this expansion than any other previous class in the game. I think you should jump off your throne of entitlement.

Pick a new class or retract your $14 subscription and stop making silly QQ threads.

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Ah yes. The voice of humanity. We were looking for you to speak on our behalf.

Pets function and are there. You can always not summon one and face tank a mob/attempt to dps a boss if you feel it lacks presence.

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Well yeah, if you don't have them on Obey and only use Garuda. With Ifrit, you are very well aware of his presence and if he's taking damage from this or that, you're going to notice.

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Clearly I meant a more noticeable presence on the battlefield, functioning beyond that of a mobile turret, that you may be required to move on occasion. Contagion aside, the other abilities give little to no incentive to use, offer no party support, and will usually act as a dps loss. One could even neglect or choose not to use Flaming Crush/Aerial Slash when appropriate and it would go largely unnoticed, given the low potency/small AoE and 30s cd.

The pets, while they do function, do so poorly. SCH has our toolkit Virus/E4E/a pet to soak/etc, and BLM does what we do but to greater effect and with instant satisfaction. While I do enjoy playing SMN (It's my main and I play it well) and the Bahamut trance sounds like a step in the right direction, SMN really doesn't bring anything unique nor is it top of the charts in terms of damage, which is why I made mention earlier of more noticeable presence of egis, be it reworked potencies/effect/or added pet party support abilities be it a debuff on the enemy or an actual buff on the party.

I'm not asking for OP potencies or effects and by "added" I mean change one of the current abilities to a support ability, not add an additional one. If I must give an example then changing Ifrits Radiant shield to an AoE would be something simple, which I'm sure has been asked and suggested many times over. I personally would add a small magic shield (something akin to galvanize) or a small magic resist (5%?) to it, so its not just added dps. Obviously some testing would need to be done, but I doubt it would be a balancing nightmare, as some seem so keen on expressing repeatedly in earlier posts/threads.

Heavensward is right around the corner, so we may yet see change that adds something valuable/unique, but I'm still hoping for the betterment of the current Egis.

What I wonder is will the Pet glamour system also change the graphics effects of their abilities? It will be very disappointing to see Shiva-Egi or Ramuh-Egi shoot out wind elemental magic or Leviathan-Egi using Ifrit-Egi's fire based moves.

I'd say its a given the graphics will be unique to the egi, a better question would probably be whether they will make the glamour universal for any pet, Slapping Titan on Summon I for example and have him casting stone spells etc. or will they limit it to certain egis can only be pasted over the role that fit it best. For Example Garuda/Ramuh for Caster, Ifrit/Leviathan for Melee and Titan/Shiva for Tank. (Shiva in sword form has a shield)

...How are SMN's mad about no new pets when we literally get to evoke Bahamut?????? We probably got the biggest update out of the other 2.x jobs

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Originally Posted by waifugenerator

...How are SMN's mad about no new pets when we literally get to evoke Bahamut?????? We probably got the biggest update out of the other 2.x jobs

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There are some who want to have a better versatile pets where to choose than functionality. I can understand them (lore speaking, we should be able to summon Leviathan or Ramuh). For me, i would like to see fixed the problems with the current egis before having new ones. About Dreadwyrm Trance, there are some player who would like to call the primal itself (because of the pet class). They fail to notice how the ability resembles the old type of summoning.

And it looks pretty awesome.