I wouldn't mind story versions of dungeons and raids though. Many quests force you to do either or and with upcoming expansion, I wonder how queue times will be for those who aren't caught up (like me). Without my guild, I would've been somewhat stuck waiting for the 2.1 quest where you gotta enter Qarn so can't imagine people trying to catch up and it's like "guys, I need to do dungeon to get into story, is everyone in expansion?....hello?"
Solo dungeons and raids!
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05-20-2015, 05:11 PMTheEnygma
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05-20-2015, 05:44 PMnuyu11I sense some emotional rage there...Quote:
Originally Posted by kyuven
Why you play this game?
Because you want to find more challenging multiplayer game?
You want some social community game?
Or because of Final Fantasy?
I choose this game because of Final Fantasy and social interaction concept, seriously marriage is totally new to me in MMO.
I have play Wildstar with the challenge is triple than this, but stop play because of latency and bug.
I have no issue at all with the difficulty in this game, I have complete my Coil by DF alone only, not complete yet my t13 due to to lack ilvl and acc cap, just got my belt and glove but still need to improve my dps with blood for blood.
There is 2 groups of player in this game Pure MMO player and casual FF fans player.
The Pure MMO player normally will not have any interest on helping FF fans because they will slow them down.
Why don't we give some room for FF fans to play casually?
Even they can go there its not like they can have the loots or achievements.
From your angry statements sounds like the Coil is only exclusively for Pro or hotshot player only, which is not that so good I've seen, even some player still boasting about zerg fest WoD.
I'm fully support OP suggestion. Yes MMO.... But I never heard people must do everything together to make it as a MMO, it's a community. Even if you do your content solo you still can chat with your FC, that's is MMO from my perspective, communication and interactions which is we lack here. -
05-20-2015, 07:34 PMZorvanQuote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightshadow
Thankfully, the world has moved on and you are no longer in the majority. Massively singleplayer is the new reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xatsh
Why play an mmo solo? Because a.) the content keeps coming and $15 a month is cheaper than $60+ a month for a comparable amount of content by buying multiple offline singleplayer games and b) other players almost qualify as moderately advanced AI. Until the AI gets better, you're all we have.
Plus, I like Final Fantasy, so here we are. -
05-20-2015, 07:44 PMdayspring83
I'd be ok with this as long as the EXP/loot rewards are not as high as light/full party dungeons.
I think this could be a great alternative to FATEs and Dungeon Parties, but if you make the rewards to high then people would not do FATEs/Dungeons in parties. That obviously causes an issue for new people who want to do that content.
Maybe make it a weekly run? either that or something with lower exp/loot rewards. -
05-20-2015, 08:00 PMAdamFyi
Personally, I think that adding solo content to current content would cause more harm than good and may deviate the playerbase even further as it is. We already have players who throw communication and cooperation out the window. Next thing you know, asking others for help would end with them telling you to just solo everything.
On that note, it would be extremely difficult for SE to balance out all the jobs to work with every piece of solo content. This will lead to the exclusion of certain jobs. Scholars and White Mages would reign supreme and the other jobs are given the shaft. Of course, NPC members would probably be included, but for raid content as it is, the NPC AI would need a complete rework to react to mechanics and changes to the boss.
Having an option to solo content would be nice if content becomes extremely irrelevant such as introducing solo instances for 2.0 content when 4.0 rolls over. For current content, no way. -
05-20-2015, 08:07 PMBelhiThose dungeons will be available for the same reason as they are now. The Roulette. You can bet that the Low Level Roulette will still be around and people will be using it because it gives fantastic exp. This is almost certainly how other dungeons in the main scenario will be handled.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEnygma
On the OPs topic, while I don't have a particular issue with the idea of solo versions (though they do tend to feel pretty anticlimactic compared to the real thing) my concern is the issue of how much work it would take. Your basically asking for a majorly striped down version all raids and dungeons with reworking of mechanics to accommodate for single play. Infact not just reworking. In many cases for the fights to be doable and in any way engaging your talking about redesigning from scratch. Everything in the game has story linked too it.
That sounds like a hell of a lot of work. That's work not being spent on making NEW content. Not just new raid content. New content for everyone.
I certainly understand your disappointment and I think their efforts to create a two tier difficulty in Alexander is a way to accommodate that. However I don't think the effort required to make raids and dungeons solo playable at current difficulty levels is wise used of resources.
When ever you have something like this you want always consider what portion of the game that you personally enjoy and play would you be willing to give up to have it. That might give you a sense of wether it's really worth it. There is always a give and take in this. -
05-20-2015, 09:05 PMStrejdaTom
No loot and titles and I really don't care.
If people want to experience the story without any rewards, let them. -
05-20-2015, 10:05 PMGunspecPretty much this. You can't find expansive world content like FFXIV in other games, especially other Final Fantasy titles. And when you compare FFXIV to FFXI, it's a joke to say that this game is multiplayer only. You can't blow your nose in FFXI without a full party supporting you. With the exception of about 4 or 5 fate bosses and the later hunts, every single aspect of the open world is soloable in FFXIV, and most group content can be done with random duty finder players requiring zero coordination.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorvan
I think group content in FFXIV is fine the way it is, but people who don't understand the solo play appeal of FFXIV blow my mind. -
05-20-2015, 10:22 PMAdamFyiThe main problem when it comes to introducing solo play to current content is balance. Let's take Wanderer's Palace (Hard) as an example. One of the mechanics of the final boss fight introduces Doom as a debuff that kills you if you cannot get back to full health in time. This means that only certain jobs and classes may complete it; namely the healers, Summoners and Warriors to an extent. Other classes are thrown out of the loop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunspec
They probably can do away with that mechanic by removing it entirely. However, BLMs face the problem of not being able to tank the incoming physical damage nor can he displace the damage with healing. Melee also faces this due to most if their HP restoring abilities locked onto a cooldown and also having small MP pools to keep them up for long battles. Bards may face a similar issue as kiting the bosses is very difficult since recent bosses have ranged attacks in their kit or run faster than the player.
Of course, they could add in NPC adventurers, but that is going to require reworking the AI for the NPCs, and that's for one dungeon out of many.
Anyway, I'm not completely against having solo instances of the old content; provided that the content is outdated. Just pointing out the issues when it comes to balancing group content into solo content. -
05-20-2015, 10:43 PMGralnaI personally would like solo versions of duties (imo trials and raids should still require a party), just to be able to farm glamours without wasting other peoples time. As more and more new content is released, older content will be run less and less, meaning longer queue times, when you're trying to farm anything from that content, it makes it that much more frustrating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xatsh
Ex, I want to get the Infantry Bandana, my best chance of getting it is to queue into Brayflox as a physical dps, however since it isn't run very often, I'm looking at a 30 min or longer queue, then the bandana has to actually drop, and if there is another physical dps, I have to roll against them. All of this taking anywhere from 40 min to over an hour, just to have a chance of getting the item.
Other way is to rope 3 friends into running it with me, but then I'm wasting their time when they could be doing something else, just so I can get a piece of vanity gear. -
05-20-2015, 10:57 PMAlberel
As much as some people are going to come out with the usual "this is an MMO so no soloing" arguments something along these lines really needs to be considered for content that it no longer relevant. Due to level sync there is no way to out level or out gear content to the point that you could solo it. This mean a full group will be required for content that most people won't be interested in any more. A soloing option for getting players through content like that would be most welcome in my opinion.
With regards to coil though I'm not sure... Making those fights soloable with AI party members would be a LOT of work as they would have to completely redesign the encounters. There would also be the issue of the AI being stupid (come on we all know it won't actually be very intelligent). Finding a balance with regards to the time investment needed to implement this may be difficult. -
05-20-2015, 11:53 PMkehn
solo dungeons as in new dungeons designed for solo play are fine. but solo raid? the word raid goes against solo.... that would be the epitome of pointless, specially if you use the already existing raids and change the mechanics to accommodate for solo play... a bit lol for you sir.
also... who is skipping the cut scenes for you? you watch cutscenes one time i would assume... how are you in a farm party watching cut scenes? didn't you watch it the first time you went in and didn't know the fight? are you also aware of the journal in the inn room? hmmmm -
05-21-2015, 12:00 AMGoufunakiI hate these kind of responses. Multiplayer doesn't always mean forced cooperation or competition. It just means multiple players.Quote:
Originally Posted by XgungraveX
People don't always want to play offline single player games, they want to play THIS game. Even if solo, it can still be enjoyable to play a living world with other people doing their own thing that doesn't involve running dungeons or farming drops all day in a group.
Or maybe friends just aren't always available, but you still want to do something besides the manderville in ul'dah. -
05-21-2015, 12:06 AMkehn
lol Rekt!!!! that was indeed a pretty silly response.
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05-21-2015, 12:23 AMXgungraveXand yet people come into mmorpgs wanting to solo content thats meant to be overcome by partys of players who took the time to level jobs to fill roles in a party. thats point of a mmorpg, to sit there and make it so that solo players be able to solo dungeon or raids kinda defeats the point of a mmorpg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goufunaki
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05-21-2015, 01:02 AMkehnno, you're right in that people should not come and try to change content created for parties to be solo like the OP is requesting... BUT there is no "point" to MMORPGs... people play them the way they want to play it. they should be free to request solo content if they want... but not existing content to be changed into solo content. XI for example had a really bad case of the force cooperation because you could not absolutely nothing solo. that is just bad game design.Quote:
Originally Posted by XgungraveX
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05-21-2015, 01:22 AMAkuryu
I don't think you guys are considering the amount of dev time that would have to be devoted to designing soloable dungeons and raids. The tank/heal/dps dynamic, which is the backbone of this game, would be thrown out. All classes would have to be able to solo them. All mechanics requiring multiple players removed or redesigned completely. It would mean designing an entirely new instance, and as it is we only get 3-4 of those every few months.
These solo instances would be insultingly easy. Nothing could hit hard (DPS and healers would be in there solo). They couldn't drop loot. If they did it would encourage people not to group (why do a harder version of the fight with people who might snipe the gear you want, when there is a easy solo mode where you're giaranteed the drops?)
So what's the point? Story? If all of this really is just so players can experience the story, they'll run it once, then never again. What a spectactular waste of dev time/effort.
Dungeons are already easy enough that you can queue solo DF, not interact at all with your teammates, and sail right through. They are designing story modes for future raid content, which I'm sure will be easily cleared in duty finder as well. To want them to take it even further, and make it all soloable, just strikes me as antisocial. If you're that antisocial, you are in the wrong genre. -
05-21-2015, 01:22 AMGoufunakiNot everything has to be easier. But at the end of the day, I would rather people be able to catch up on their own time than to be left behind because they couldn't get the help they needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by XgungraveX
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05-21-2015, 01:26 AMkehnsolo dungeons exist in a ton of games... they have 1 purpose.. lvling up. i dont know if you've seen the dps queues before, but they're pretty bad. and they don't need anything that is not the in game right now. there are job quests that basicly work like dungeons for solo, there are maps that can be solo with bosses in them. a solo dungeon is basicly a hallway of mobs that give good exp for people that just don't care for parties while lvling up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akuryu
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05-21-2015, 01:31 AMXgungraveXi much agree with the ffxi when first played it on the ps2 after like lv 20 or something u was forced to be in a party at all times for me that was a huge put off because sometimes i like to be left alone. the game was much better better when i came back on the 360 it wasnt so much focus on party leveling and more endgame.but in ff14 ( wasn't plan on playing another mmo after i sold my wow account) i decided not to raid because i did my time in other mmo and just wanted to casually play and do stuff on the weekends with friends, i manged to get full i130 and my zeta i havent even relly touched the first half of fcob, there are plenty of solo content but its just a grind to get versus someone who raidsQuote:
Originally Posted by kehn
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05-21-2015, 01:34 AMCutie_McSnugglesI was just going to come in here to say this but I see it's already been covered. Thanks for representing those of us in the community who feel this way. ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunspec
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05-21-2015, 01:45 AMAkuryuIf dungeons were the only way to level up, I might agree, but they aren't. Fates and Leves are actually faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by kehn
Also consider that a solo dungeon would give less exp. The enemies would be reduced to the difficulty of open world mobs, at which point you might as well stay out in the open world. This has to be the case. If solo dungeons gave the same exp as group ones, nobody would do the group ones. They won't design content that discourages group play in a mmo -
05-21-2015, 01:55 AMkehn
no, they wouldn't... the baseless assertions in your post are too damn high
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05-21-2015, 02:33 AMFoxyAreku
If you only care about the story of a raid, youtube.com is that way ---->
Raiding is a social experience and is pointless without people to play with, and doubly pointless without item drops. No one does coil for the story, it's not even that interesting until turn 12. So this most likely will never be implemented, you'll just have to settle for the 'normal mode' alexander next expansion.
I would however support the ability to go into low level dungeons solo without level sync. -
05-21-2015, 02:39 AMAkuryuIgnoring for a moment that most people in this thread are talking about soloable raids and other endgame content, not leveling content...Quote:
Originally Posted by kehn
And also ignoring that the game already has avenues for players to level up solo...
And that it doesn't take long to level in general...
It sounds like what you want in solo dungeons are straight linear corridors filled with easy enemies and a piss-easy boss at the end, that players could solo queue into instantly, repeatedly, and that rewards as much experience as 4-mans.
That would DESTROY the pre-50 game. The open world would be a ghost town... nobody doing fates or leves. Nobody exploring and doing quests. Everyone would sit in their starting nation, queuing for these solo instances over and over until they hit 50 or quit out of boredom. Those who do want to level and play with other people would find it nearly impossible because nobody would be queuing for 4-mans or doing any of the above open world stuff. It would suck all the life and soul right out of the game. -
05-21-2015, 02:49 AMKallera
I've been doing coil for the story, the fact that I need drops from it to complete it is a formality.
I would welcome solo dungeon content. It'll include some more companions to call on. Have it be like a set of trainable equipable gc recruits(or path companions...) that you can bring all of them to a dungeon, or call one of them out on the open world. That they can level up and become more useful in later solo dungeons(and thus get gil and items) is a good reason to do it repeatedly. And of course it would take a considerable while before they are able to be in top form, which is likely going to be slower than an all human pt anyway.
We can start with that first, then see if raids need similar treatment. -
05-21-2015, 02:53 AMAkuryuAgreed. I don't know what kind of epic story these people think they are missing out on. I think they think it's like Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium, with lots of cutscenes and story-telling. It's not. Most turns consist of you walking into a circle, a giant monster popping out, you defeating the giant monster, then walking on to the next circle. That's literally the 'story' of 90% of coil. You get a bit more in T5, T9 and a great cutscene in T12 (which you can youtube).Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyAreku
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05-21-2015, 03:00 AMkehnfirst the baseless assertions and now the assumptions...Quote:
Originally Posted by Akuryu
when did i say they should be a corridor? when did i say it should be easy? when did i say it should give the same exp as 4-man dungeons?
would you sit in town queuing for solo dungeons? i wouldn't.... would you not do fates? (new ones) i would. would you not explore the world and new quests? i would.
the only people that would do those things are the people who like playing like that. your argument is invalid. -
05-21-2015, 03:21 AMAkuryuYou specifically mentioned a "hallway" with enemies and a boss on the previous page.Quote:
Originally Posted by kehn
I said they would have to give less exp than regular 4 mans, you responded with "no they wouldn't"
As far as easy, they'd have to be. Solo means nothing could hit hard enough to require a tank, or require healing to survive, or high dps to kill. You're solo... you're only going to have one of those things.
And yes, if these things were the easiest route to 50, most people would do them. -
05-21-2015, 03:39 AMkehni said that in others games that's what they are... not should be in this gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Akuryu
you didn't say they would give less exp than a 4-man you said they would give open world exp. those are very different statements.
Current dungeons are "piss-easy" so nothing would change there. i don't think anybody is asking for anything easier than that. you can have small groups of mobs that are soloable just like maps. bosses that use mostly AoE skills that can be evaded and have moderate damage like B ranks. your lack of imagination is not real barrier for creativity when coming up with this stuff, that is your personal limitation.
would it really be the easiest way to reach lvl 50? or just another way? -
05-21-2015, 04:22 AMYukikoI think MMORPG is not the best game for you, you are seeking for a MMOGRPG...Quote:
Originally Posted by XgungraveX
Massively Multiplayer Online (thats the network setting and not the gamestyle!)
Group (i just came up with that)
Role Play Game (thats the genre, we are playing a RPG)
You assume everyone have to play a MMOFGRPG (MMO Forced Group RPG)
Massively Multiplayer Online is nothing more than having a world where many many players are online interacting with! (interacting with the world, not with each other!)
Simply by using the chat i am already playing a MMORPG, just saying "hi" is enough... it is not necessary to go into dungeons or do anything else with "others". By choosing to be evil and playerkill (refering to other games) you mostly act alone from the shadows while still interacting (that means killing other players)... Where you begin to interact with other players is the genre, as RPG (mostly in medievil age with magic and swords) players are trading or grouping and so on. Your illusion of MMO beeing group play is wrong, sorry! They problem is that as RPG you are not in a group from the very beginning and even later on you mostly write your own story - hell, do you even read books? Does any Hero need a group? You go in a dungeon alone and come out with 2 friends, or you go in a dungeon with 8 and come out with 3... thats RPG and storytelling!
It is this "freedome" what makes a good MMORPG and not the group play! If you did not realise the genre we are in, then you may should search for a team oriented first person shooter (MMOFPS) -
05-21-2015, 04:36 AMGralnahmm, that quote gave me a neat idea, Iron Man Difficulty, if you die in the instance, you are automatically kicked and spot isn't replaced, when all players die, the instance ends :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Yukiko
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05-21-2015, 04:51 AMRhaja=O I'm going to propose that to my FC! Course with weaker gear. Maybe current accessories, AF1 armor and modern weapon? Maybe up it to the i90 AF versions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gralna
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05-21-2015, 05:29 AMKisaiTenshi
Square Enix could pull one page from PSO2...
Dynamic dungeon parties. For those of you have never played PSO2, some of the dungeon instances work like this:
You enter with your party, and the first 20% of the dungeon you are in is your instance, when you get to the "center" of the dungeon, your party and any of the other parties are dynamically connected to a larger instance with a larger boss or a "eliminate all the monsters" type of instance, and then the last 20% still leads to your instanced boss room.
Sometimes you will enter and there will simply not be other parties. How it works as I've ever been able to play is that you don't really know if it's other players or AI players. Incidentally, PSO2 lets you pull AI versions of your friends into your prep instances (that's also where you end up when you "die") , so that does solve the need for additional players that are missing, but AI players only really provide a baseline role, not something you can speedpull with. -
05-21-2015, 06:16 AMXatshIT all depends on what is a mmorpg....Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukiko
The traditional definition is a virtual world where it is a group focused endless game.
The whole concept of a mmorpg just being a game with alot of people playing is a recent concept.
When people started calling Diablo, World of Tanks, LoL, Destiny and Path of Exile MMOs, which honestly None of them are. THey are Mobas and Dungeon Crawlers.
SO regardless of your defintion to me and many many others.... mmos require group play, the forced grouping is what defines a mmo as a mmo. IF you do not want to group... DO NOT PLAY MMOs. -
05-21-2015, 06:19 AMRylaiBluecrow
To all the people yelling why aren't you playing single player games then?
Umm because i like games... in general...? -
05-21-2015, 06:42 AMTeppie
Why not just make main scenario events include a 10-20 minute solo dungeon, just a side little fun thing like what we already have to sort of immerse yourself in the plot more.
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05-21-2015, 08:22 AMAkuryuDevelopment resources are finite. If the game shifted focus to more single player content, the multiplayer game that we all signed up for will suffer. Developing solo content would take time and effort better spent elsewhere. If the choice is 3 new multiplayer dungeons, or 2 new multiplayer dungeons and a solo dungeon I'll do once then never again, I'll take the 3 multiplayer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teppie
I'm also going to guess that single player instances would absolutely wreck the instance servers. Know how when a new Zodiac quest comes along, the instance servers slow down due to congestion? Imagine these single player ones piling up. Example: If 1000 people are farming Garuda for light, that's 125 instances of Garuda. If 1000 players are grinding solo dungeons, that's 1000 instances. -
05-21-2015, 08:25 AMXgungraveXname me a couple of single player mmorogs that u can beat dungeons and raids without having any other players or npcw involved what so ever...Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukiko
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05-21-2015, 08:27 AMCakekizyQuote:
Originally Posted by XgungraveX
Everquest and World of Warcraft.