A small request of SE

No, no, no, the crux of these arguments isn't "I could have carved a trail of blood out of Ul'dah." The crux is that "we didn't have an option to," when lots of role players have established their PC is a spitfire who won't take things lying down. We didn't get have the option to do anything about the frame job, and that kind of ruins the immersion - the real problem people have with the ending... but immersion is ruined in pretty much every cutscene, where things happen you don't influence and your character agrees to do pretty much everything everyone asks of them.

Also why I brought up the name thing, because if you really want immersion you should have a name that makes sense for your race/sex. (And it's a bit pedantic, but I'm pretty sure you were going for Panacea.)

People love being lauded by the NPCs in cutscenes, but when you're slandered now losing control is "unfair" and "my PC would never react like that" etc. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

To be fair to the character, we were relying on the character judgement of Buscarron who seemed to think the boy had just lost his way and was still good at heart. Second chances and all that. In some cases those second chances pay off. Wilred was loyal and sadly paid for that loyalty. He didn't squander his second chance. Laurentius apparently has. I'm hoping that when we met him again he doesn't get a third chance.

Edit: Beaten to it:P

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lol sorry you at least got his name right....

mmmm cake... I wonder if I have any birthday cake left over... it's only 8 days old... chocolate cake w/chocolate frosting.. *drools*

Actually, I dislike the constant reminders of how great we are supposed to be. But thats just me I suppose, never know what to do with a sincere compliment and most the compliments towards our characters don't feel sincere at that.

As to the constant immersion breaking, the small stuff we have to just overlook. We agree to be errand boys/girls because that's what the fetch quests require. It could be writen better but it's what it is. It leaves our characters motives up to us along with the bulk of their personalities, except the fact we have chronic hero syndrome which can't be helped.

In the ending SE dictated our characters motives much to tightly when it wasn't necessary, that's the problem I have with it.

Though a couple dialog choices would be nice on occasion, similar to the Gaius confrontation.

As to the name, I intentionally took out the second a, just naming a character the exact word would seem... I dunno, lazy? Cheap? XD

I don't understand why we need to team up with the crystal braves flames and Yugiris ninjas to take down one woman in the last story fight in 2.4 it baffles me I mean we so strong.

Wait right there was a whole Garlan force backing her up.

if we needed that many people and groups for 1 woman and her 30 man back up can't imagine how many wed need for the whole brass blades and braves combine.

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Originally Posted by Durthane

Actually, I dislike the constant reminders of how great we are supposed to be. But thats just me I suppose, never know what to do with a sincere compliment and most the compliments towards our characters don't feel sincere at that.

As to the constant immersion breaking, the small stuff we have to just overlook. We agree to be errand boys/girls because that's what the fetch quests require. It could be writen better but it's what it is. It leaves our characters motives up to us along with the bulk of their personalities, except the fact we have chronic hero syndrome which can't be helped.

In the ending SE dictated our characters motives much to tightly when it wasn't necessary, that's the problem I have with it.

Though a couple dialog choices would be nice on occasion, similar to the Gaius confrontation.

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I know, right? I'm glad I'm not the only one who got tired of being adored by Eorzea. I mean, I didn't do anything special... kind of why I'm a only a little worried about losing Hydaelyn's protection (no-win situations like Ultima). I'll earn the praise myself.

Chronic Hero Syndrome can be helped, it just takes time and effort SE doesn't have. Just like putting in alternate options people want but won't get (letting me steal Animus Books from G'jusana, f'ex).

Dictated your character's motives for accepting what happened? OK, pick one:
1. They knew they couldn't win in a fight against the two standing armies in Ul'dah.
2. They knew they had been outplayed and fighting would just make things worse.
3. They were in shock from Namamo's sudden and unexpected death (after the Sultana dies).
4. They understood what Raubahn and the Scions were willing to sacrifice to see things set right and fully intend to honor those sacrifices (after Raubahn frees you and the Scions cover your escape).
5. They're a damn dirty coward.

Your character already shakes their head at Teledji's accusation. Dialogue options?
Teledji Adeledji: "You! You did this!"
1. "It wasn't me!"
2. "You set this up!"
3. "I have no idea what's going on!"
4. "Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries!"
Teledji Adeledji: "Lies! I see no other suspects, and the room has but the one entrance! Men, arrest this viper!"

... and the ever-popular...
5. "..."
Teledji Adeledji: "So you admit your guilt? I see no other suspects, and the room has but the one entrance! Men, arrest this viper!"

There was no glory to be had, no version of this where we could have come out on top. Getting hung up on the details is pointless.

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4. "Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries!"

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This choice, unbeknownst to us, would unlock the secret ending where the Sultana switched the glasses à la James Bond and then wakes up and then everyone laughs. Great party at the Rising Stones while Lolorito stands in a corner with the pointy sugarloaf hat from Brayflox, sulking - wondering whatever went wrong. And why did he let SE place that dreadful hat on his head.

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Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

This choice, unbeknownst to us, would unlock the secret ending where the Sultana switched the glasses à la James Bond and then wakes up and then everyone laughs. Great party at the Rising Stones while Lolorito stands in a corner with the pointy sugarloaf hat from Brayflox, sulking - wondering whatever went wrong. And why did he let SE place that dreadful hat on his head.

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Nah I'm fine with that, because then we wouldn't get this in the future... dialogue is more fitting for Teledji, but still.

Lolorito: "Omega will be operational. Nothing will change that. What have I to fear?"

Warrior of Light: "The Avengers. That's what I like to call us; we're sort of like a team. "Eorzea's Mightiest Heroes" type thing."

Lolorito: "Yes, I've met them."

Warrior of Light: "Yeah, takes us a while to get any traction, I'll give you that one. But let's do a head count here: the ex-pirate captain leader of a confederacy who might not be so "ex;" an ageless druid who can pretty much control nature; a refugee war hero who got a 1000 match win streak in the pit; a knight who broke the the mold in a caste-based society; all of the Scions, and YOU, big fella, you've managed to piss off every single one of them."

Lolorito: "That was the plan."

Warrior of Light: "Not a great plan. When they come, and they will, they'll come for you."

Lolorito: "I have two armies and Omega."

Warrior of Light: "We took down Ultima."

Lolorito: "That thing's a toy in comparison..."

Warrior of Light: "You're missing the point! There's no throne, there is no version of this where you come out on top. Maybe you activate Omega and maybe it's too much for us but it's all on you. Because if we can't protect Eorzea you can be damn well sure we'll avenge it!"

...

...

...

Warrior of Light: "Oh yeah, and there's one other person you pissed off! Her name is Nanamo."

EDIT: Included Aymeric, just in case. Also, Marvel Cinematic Universe content copyright Disney, all rights reserved. I don't own any of it, there's no way to profit off it, and it's parody anyway so please don't sue me!

In my headcanon, Ilberd was never obviously a traitor. He walks in with Nanamo dead, you think you can explain to him, but he is outraged (him and Raubahn were bestest bros, right?) and he knocks you out. Meaning you're weakened for the entirety of the escape meaning it actually makes more sense. It would also have given Ilberds betrayal much more impact if it wasn't telegraphed updates in advance... As it stands it was like opening The Half-Blood Prince and the first line being "Snape kills Dumbledore". The whole Crystal Braves betrayal just wasn't effectively written in my opinion, as a plot twist it would have been amazing, instead I just sat there going "when is it going to happen?" constantly.


I'd also have had it revealed to everyone that the Warrior of Light has lost the Blessing of Light. How would Teledji Adeledji/Lolorito know that? Who bloody cares. That would have actually given some more weight to the entire affair, granted I don't think many NPCs are aware of the Blessing, but I do recall the Grand Company Leaders acknowledging it during an early cutscene. Suddenly you've gone from the paragon of virtue, blessed by the Goddess herself, to just another adventurer in every NPCs eyes. Why'd you lose the Blessing? Well we know what really happened, but if you're unaware of that (like every NPC is) you can paint a much darker picture of your character, one which backs up the claims of regicide. Oh, suddenly I'm not in a situation where the claims are absolutely laughable at best. Suddenly I'm feeling ramifications for losing the Blessing, because "Oh no! You've lost the Blessing of Light? Well, go do the impossible and kill an Ascian then!" certainly didn't make me feel like I'd lost anything, if anything I felt more powerful...

Instead we have this hilarious situation where you've been accused of regicide, lost most of your major allies, yet feel invincible. Everyone you talk to either outright rejects claims of your betrayal, is going solely off patchy rumors and are mostly unaware as a result, or is trying their hardest not to piss themselves with fear at your mere presence. I think it was a mistake to focus so heavily on the WoL during most of these dialog changes, one of the most effective ones (and I'm not even sure if it's a change?) is in Little Ala Mhigo regarding the Crystal Brave we recruited from there. If more of the dialog added following the main scenario were about NPCs I'd perhaps care more, because the NPCs are the ones in a shitty situation, not us. While they could try and put us in a shitty situation, it would likely impact gameplay in a negative manner and just result in an annoyance, much more effective I think to try and have us care about the other "people" effected by the events. But instead of reminding me of the shit that just went down, the game is instead reminding me that I'm awesome and untouchable, or just making me laugh at satire which would probably work (seriously Serendipidy, do that, no one would know the difference). That's sending out the complete wrong message IMO.

That said I enjoyed the finale, just not for the right reasons I think... Small things like "the [carriage] you rode in on" at the end got me far more than the actual plot. Really enjoyed the fight cutscenes (Raubahn owned the music) and I have hand it to SE for having the balls to off Nanamo, though I'm a tad peeved they didn't "fix" the situation with something like the Culinarian quest... Much like 1.0s original main quest, I think Class quests could do with being put in their own little Echo timeline now, they have the perfect tool to do away with inconsistencies like this, but they're not using it... Mayhaps in Heavensward... Heck that actually could have been used to make more of the NPCs in the game less trusting of us than they are without creating an inconvenience for the players... Talk to Guild NPC having finished their quests? "HOW COULD YOU?!!?". Talk to Guild NPC for the first time having finished the main scenario? Clearly marked Echo transition and things act like normal, perhaps with a few minor tweaks (/sad emote when looking at Nanamo during the Culinarian quest). Really do think there is a lot they could have done to improve the finale, guess I'll just hope for better in Heavensward.

I think we've forgotten what OP actually said in all this discussion. Reposted for your edification:

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Originally Posted by Durthane

Please, never include the PC in any cutscene that involves negative things happening

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OP is asking the writers to throw out every remotely interesting tool in their toolbox and instead write a pleasant fluff fanfic where the player character never suffers any hardship on their way to victory. That's not a hero's journey; that's shooting fish in a barrel and it's stupid.

I am starting to think the OP was trying to make a joke but everyone else played it straight.

I don't think so Tim, go read her other posts they all say the same thing including how her character would have straight up super manned everyone in her way before getting tied up.

I never suggested nothing bad should happen, or that nothing bad should happen to us. I am asking that they don't take away control of our characters persona like they did in 2.55 again.

As has been discussed if you had been paying attention, a certain amount of personality has to be railroaded. But the motive and what the character thinks is up to us, once a cutscene involves negative event within our characters ability to influence and they do not for political reasons or otherwise it excludes a lot of character types and breaks immersion for the player.

As I have stated multiple times, incapacitation or generally removing some of our in story options for that time period alleviates the problem. "I would have fought back, but they cheap shot me/poisoned me/had a hostage" Easy to do with a couple lines of dialogue and animations and keeps players from asking WTH is their character who they have played as a hotheaded berserker all the sudden scared of three brass blades.

Now go work on your reading comprehension.

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

I think we've forgotten what OP actually said in all this discussion. Reposted for your edification:



OP is asking the writers to throw out every remotely interesting tool in their toolbox and instead write a pleasant fluff fanfic where the player character never suffers any hardship on their way to victory. That's not a hero's journey; that's shooting fish in a barrel and it's stupid.

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Actually, after seeing you make multiple claims based on out of context information, I have to assume troll. BEGONE! BACK UNDER YOUR BRIDGE BEAST!

I sorely hope you are not speaking to me about reading comprehension. Mine is just fine thank you very much. My post was to the one suggesting that you yourself were making this to be a joke thread and I was pointing out that as you saw it it wasn't due to seeing and reading your previous posts in a different thread entirely. What I said was the gist of what you yourself posted on the thread about what you would have done for 2.55 instead of what happened.

It was directed at Axem actually.

Though to address your points, as it stands Rem WOULD go postal on the Brass blades similar to Raubahn. She would also end up most likely heavily injured and be carried out. I don't say dead due to the ultimate plot armor only PC enjoy.

But that is not possible and there is no in story reason for an emotionally driven character to act as the PC does in the current CS. Short of SE dictating how she thinks and what her motives are which are a no-no in an MMO.

Ok as long as that is all cleared up we're good. Lol...

See that's the thing though I honestly can't consider this game a normal MMO due to the facts that it's

A) a SE title
B) a numbered Final Fantasy Game due to how they are writing it and the direction it is going.

C) the history of Final Fantasy in general. Most people are expecting certain things in this game and a certain direction due to it being FF.

I guess also with that is I see it as a solo game that allows you to play with others like 11 did.


Edit: I'm weird I know it lol

Last time we got knocked out by a sleep spell it was long enough so the Amal'jaa were able to move us from the top of Eastern Thanalan to what I'd assume somewhere in deep in Southern Thanalan. That sure would have been an exciting climax wouldn't it? Getting put to sleep then waking up x hour later in a jail cell.

And you know maybe your character did fight back in Nanamo's room. We never see what happens after they come in and accuse us for murder but Ilberd dragging us in versus having us walk (which would have been more convenient) heavily implies we got roughed up (if it was from just general abuse or resisting is never stated).

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Originally Posted by lilirulu

Last time we got knocked out by a sleep spell it was long enough so the Amal'jaa were able to move us from the top of Eastern Thanalan to what I'd assume somewhere in deep in Southern Thanalan. That sure would have been an exciting climax wouldn't it? Getting put to sleep then waking up x hour later in a jail cell.

And you know maybe your character did fight back in Nanamo's room. We never see what happens after they come in and accuse us for murder but Ilberd dragging us in versus having us walk (which would have been more convenient) heavily implies we got roughed up (if it was from just general abuse or resisting is never stated).

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Which would still be bad storytelling... Why do we need to make up scenes that never happened to get the story to make sense?

How is it bad sorry telling when they cause us to use our imaginations and think outside of the box?

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Nah I'm fine with that, because then we wouldn't get this in the future... dialogue is more fitting for Teledji, but still.

Lolorito: "Omega will be operational. Nothing will change that. What have I to fear?"

Warrior of Light: "The Avengers. That's what I like to call us; we're sort of like a team. "Eorzea's Mightiest Heroes" type thing."

Lolorito: "Yes, I've met them."

Warrior of Light: "Yeah, takes us a while to get any traction, I'll give you that one. But let's do a head count here: the ex-pirate captain leader of a confederacy who might not be so "ex;" an ageless druid who can pretty much control nature; a refugee war hero who got a 1000 match win streak in the pit; a knight who broke the the mold in a caste-based society; all of the Scions, and YOU, big fella, you've managed to piss off every single one of them."

Lolorito: "That was the plan."

Warrior of Light: "Not a great plan. When they come, and they will, they'll come for you."

Lolorito: "I have two armies and Omega."

Warrior of Light: "We took down Ultima."

Lolorito: "That thing's a toy in comparison..."

Warrior of Light: "You're missing the point! There's no throne, there is no version of this where you come out on top. Maybe you activate Omega and maybe it's too much for us but it's all on you. Because if we can't protect Eorzea you can be damn well sure we'll avenge it!"

...

...

...

Warrior of Light: "Oh yeah, and there's one other person you pissed off! Her name is Nanamo."

EDIT: Included Aymeric, just in case.

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I totaly agree with you Cilia. A 100% hahahahaha :P
Btw your arguments are amasing !

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Originally Posted by Durthane

Which would still be bad storytelling... Why do we need to make up scenes that never happened to get the story to make sense?

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That's not bad story writing at all. Not everything needs to be explicitly shown to you especially in a situation where SE can't just make a special scene just because you happened to be going through the cut-scene on MNK. I was on SCH and I couldn't fight back at all so why should I be shafted because I wasn't on a class/job I haven't played since I reach 50 on it (and for some players haven't even leveled at all)? It's not fair or reasonable for one job to get special spotlight in the story.

And the way the scene finishes the brass blades walk up to you and you look over at Nanamo's corpse before the scene fades to black. That's the perfect set up for your character at least attempting to fight the brass blades. And then the scene when we are dragged into the Fragrant Chamber even hints even more at it. SE did as much as they could for players who would have wanted to fight back while also being fair to players who didn't or realized they couldn't. If you don't want to take what the gave you that's your prerogative but it's not poor story writing in the least.

@ frederick22 Lol though I keep imagining that loki Vader and ultron show up at that point in time to hand your character a subpoena for copy right infringement

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

I think we've forgotten what OP actually said in all this discussion. Reposted for your edification:

OP is asking the writers to throw out every remotely interesting tool in their toolbox and instead write a pleasant fluff fanfic where the player character never suffers any hardship on their way to victory. That's not a hero's journey; that's shooting fish in a barrel and it's stupid.

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Hey, that's not fair! If you're going to proffer an argument at least include the full context! Here, like this:

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Originally Posted by Durthane

Please, never include the PC in any cutscene that involves negative things happening that any job/class could possibly prevent. It's immersion breaking and amateurish storytelling at best, a case of "They didn't care" at worst.

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OP isn't mad about how negative things happened to the PC, but that there were ways to prevent or avoid some of them depending on your class (or, just so it's included, how perceptive they were of the frame job).

However as I've gone over before, there are simply too many options that X class could take and Y class couldn't, or too many things Character A would or could do that Character B wouldn't or couldn't and vice versa. Since they can't program for any and every eventuality, SE just made the PC solemnly accept their arrest, and people going with "spitfire" personalities feel like their character was hijacked.

Immersion breaking? Yeah. Not in character for some players' PC? Yeah. Necessary evil? Yeah.

Immersion is broken in every cutscene anyway though, so I don't understand what the fuss is about.

Minfilia: "You're a great and selfless hero! We all love you!"
Player: These people love me! Screw characterization, that's awesome!

Teledji: "I'm arresting you for regicide!"
Player: Hey, that's not fair! My PC would totally fight back or something!

... there's no difference in immersion breaks, but this is probably what things went like for a lot of heavy RPers. I'd extrapolate that in regards to escapism, but I've not the time right now and that's not the topic regardless. Nope, I'll just tell you how I felt at the end of 2.5.5...

Minfilia: "You have to escape! You're the Warrior of Light, Eorzea's hope!"

...

(in Camp Dragonhead)
Cilia: "I never asked for this."

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Originally Posted by Rannie

@ frederick22 Lol though I keep imagining that loki Vader and ultron show up at that point in time to hand your character a subpoena for copy right infringement

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Wast me who said that btw lol

I know that easier to type somethings on a cell as opposed to others

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Originally Posted by Rannie

I know that easier to type somethings on a cell as opposed to others

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Look im not here to debate something that is not related to this topic. I didnt alterated the comment of Cilia, all I did is to copy his quote and said that I like her arguments.
Beacuse, in geneal, they are good, informative, with a lot of lore knowledge and funny. I will say no more.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

@ frederick22 Lol though I keep imagining that loki Vader and ultron show up at that point in time to hand your character a subpoena for copy right infringement

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OK, so I also added this to the other one. "Marvel Cinematic Universe content copyright Disney, all rights reserved. I don't own any of it, there's no way to profit off it, and it's parody anyway so please don't sue me!"

Also,

Lolorito: "How will your friends fight me, when they'll be so busy fighting you?"

Lolorito throws a sack of gil at the Warrior of Light.

Warrior of Light: "..."

Lolorito throws another sack of gil at the Warrior of Light.

Warrior of Light: "..."

Lolorito: "That usually works."

Warrior of Light: "Not everyone can be bought, y'know... it's actually not that uncommon... four out of five..."

Again, Marvel Cinematic Universe content copyright Disney, all rights reserved. I don't own any of it, there's no way for me to profit off it, and it's parody anyway so please don't sue me!

Lol you didn't have to put any of that in there that was just my mind being extremely silly along with it. I enjoyed reading the part and wasn't debating Frederick on it just at the time he had quoted it and I was adding my own silliness to it. I've agreed with your posts and have enjoyed reading them.

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Originally Posted by Durthane

Which would still be bad storytelling... Why do we need to make up scenes that never happened to get the story to make sense?

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Surely you jest. Providing endless possibilities for players to choose during critical portions of the story's lore, or cutting the Warrior of Light out of anything even remotely interesting that happens besides smearing primals into paste, is ok, but providing ambiguity to the story to help maintain your head canon is BAD?

This thread has been disappointing. It started with a lie (A 'small' request my ass) and devolved into a series of lunatic statements and complete ignorance on story construction, particularly for video games and lore.

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Originally Posted by Durthane

... as it stands Rem WOULD go postal on the Brass blades similar to Raubahn. She would also end up most likely heavily injured and be carried out. I don't say dead due to the ultimate plot armor only PC enjoy.

But that is not possible and there is no in story reason for an emotionally driven character to act as the PC does in the current CS. Short of SE dictating how she thinks and what her motives are which are a no-no in an MMO.

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Hey now! You don't get to demand total control over your character's persona / actions and have the luxury of plot armor! Plot armor takes away control over your character's persona! You can't have it both ways... if you don't get plot armor that means you have to accept responsibility for the consequences of your actions, the good and the bad. Following this course of logic, Rem is either dead or incarcerated.

... you can't say "I want complete control!" and then try and use plot armor as justification as to how you'd make it out. If they take off the rails and you did what you wanted to here it's game over, whether you end up in the Masajara (SP?) Pit with Raubahn or hung from the rafters after a trial by kangaroo court. Game over is a big no-no in an MMO from both a storytelling AND business perspective.

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Originally Posted by Durthane

Though a couple dialog choices would be nice on occasion, similar to the Gaius confrontation.

As to the name, I intentionally took out the second a, just naming a character the exact word would seem... I dunno, lazy? Cheap? XD

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All MMO's have little to no sense of immersion that's just how they are by nature. I mean in every MMO you are this great hero and a special snowflake yet in every location you go for quests there are a million other people doing the same thing. There are people in game trolling each other and so on. Outside of a RP how do you find immersion in anything? This is not a single player RPG where the experience only needs to be tailored to one person playing the game on their own where programmed choices become possible. Some choices would just break the entire storyline like when Gaius asks you to join him you only have the option to tell him where to stick it. If you joined him the game would end. If the bad guys started their plot and tried to take down everyone but you kill them all with your super powers that ends the story. The reason they don't give you options is because the story just does not flow if you can break it. What would be the point of anything if you could just beat everyone up who came in the room to pin you with the death of Nanamo and then come and beat everyone else up? What does the story get out of that?

If you can already take down the threat there is none. There is no reason to go to Ishgard. There is no reason for them to open their gates to you and help you. The enemies need to be built as a legit threat before we take them down. And to the people saying "I took down a primal" etc we never did those things alone we went in with a team of powerful hand picked adventurers even the story acknowledges that they just change you to the team leader. Various Scions are also involved in that. You did nothing alone in the story.

Eh I shouldn't but I'll toss in my 2 cents.

I am sure Square is aware of the fact this game has a RP community otherwise there would be no Naming Conventions or the Roe dictionary to aid with said RP. Is RP an issue? No. However even knowing that said community exist they CAN'T tailor the game to them. I realize Square in a multi million dollar company with FFXIV alone racking in a considerable amount even after you subtract what they are tossing back into the game BUT that is NOT enough to warrant this:

Every class has an option to fight somehow like idk some random NPC tosses us our weapon or something. Or everyone can take the smart road and get the canon ending. or everyone can pick a point to stop and help the Scions.

That list could go on and on and on but the point here is MMO's with a rp community or not will NEVER have the resources to bend the story to having multiple paths so people really shouldn't be complaining about the fact that tney can't.

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Originally Posted by Durthane

I never suggested nothing bad should happen, or that nothing bad should happen to us. I am asking that they don't take away control of our characters persona like they did in 2.55 again.

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LOL I thinks it's actually sad that the role players or people who are just mad that they finnaly relized that no they are not so powerful its painfull I know when people have a god complex and they realize they aren't on top of mount Olympus but down here in the dirt with us fillty mortals.

And if you so mad that that is what happens then use your imagination and imprint that into your story or are you all so brain dead to do this its fun I swear do it my self in a regular basis. Oh look middy is doing the Cha cha slide.

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Originally Posted by Durthane

It was directed at Axem actually.

Though to address your points, as it stands Rem WOULD go postal on the Brass blades similar to Raubahn. She would also end up most likely heavily injured and be carried out. I don't say dead due to the ultimate plot armor only PC enjoy.

But that is not possible and there is no in story reason for an emotionally driven character to act as the PC does in the current CS. Short of SE dictating how she thinks and what her motives are which are a no-no in an MMO.

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Don't most RPers ignore the main scenario for the sake of RP, and preserving their character? Most of the ones I've talked to have their own narrative that makes reference to things going on in the world, but they don't act like they're at the center of the story. At least that's how it was in 1.0, when I dabbled in it a little.

I think it's best to look at the game as having two narratives: The main story, and your story. According to the main story of the game, you're a thankless do-gooder who rises to scion, and later primal and ultima slayer, who saves the realm and is assigned the title "warrior of light". Your character is essentially "the good guy" or "the hero" in the main story, and will always do what's best for their friends, and the realm. Your story on the other hand can have your character be the swashbuckling captain of a pirate vessel, a travelling merchant out to rip off his fellow man, an exotic dancer who has two lalafells to feed back home! You can even tie it into the main scenario if you want to, but obviously that could cause conflict if you meet 9 other players who claim that they're the warrior of light who felled the ultima weapon.

I guess my point is that I think it's important for SE to take the wheel on your character when it comes to the main scenario, because if they do not assign characteristics to him/her, then essentially they're never going to please everyone with their special snowflake personalities. That or they'll end up having to go the mass effect route, where every option essentially leads to the same ending, anyway, because the narrative is instrumental for moving us along between patches and expansions.

I agree with the basis of this post on the request of SE to allow us to have a moment to kick ass inside of a series of cut scenes like this. Due to the emotion of the situation, I completely agree with this request of SE.

Before those (who I also agree with) start hitting me about "there was no way for that to happen" and "this doesn't happen in an MMO" - HEAR ME OUT.

First - Through Live letters and Forum postings there is a decent amount of noise about the community wanting to fight with or "throw down" with the Scions specifically.

Second - As the title of this implies - SE and FF titles have had battle scenes related to major cut scenes (FFVII - Motorcycle riding out of Midgar and FFX - Titus and Auron battling towards Sin at the beginning and the progression fight to get to Yuna at the Blitzball Tournament). Personally, they could have done this here...and more.

Follow along:

Namano dies - no fight
Rage Fight - we don't
Final Heaven - we ain't there
Tunnel - Perfect time throw down
Hop on the Wagon - Satisfaction already acheived, no need
Corethas - well, if a dragon showed up between us and Dragonhead...Well it would have made for a nice tie-in to bring reunite the grandkids and you at the end...just like you started (personally the wagon was enough for me.)

Several reasons:

One - Seemed weird to me (with SE's history) that we turn and run during a time when we could fight and it wouldn't be able to affect overall storyline in a plausible way.

Two - The big reveal in Corethas was the largest of letdowns. In the tunnel and seeing her get unmasked while fighting along side us - would have been totally epic and adding to the previous flavor of showing us what the Scions and even the Major Leaders are capable of in the past.

Three - It may just have been me, but I found it borderline criminal, that after the build up of all of that, the hurriedness/shaky storytelling that showed up after we first split up.

Four - Considering that even the Syndicate would not be able to let leak the fact the tunnel exists, they couldn't cover how a large group of blades and braves are either dead or totally busted up when most people would not have seen a fight break out anywhere in Ul'Dah...and if they did, it would help us in the credibility department.

Lastly - Yoshi-P has told us that Payalimo and Yda will be further explored in 3.0. So if they really do kill off 2 or 3 Scions, I personally would have perferred an NPC party fight style which ended with Minfilia and ourselves running away so they can do what they did (epic and cool, but also kinda odd knowing SE's history and they would go Holy that quick)

Okay - Let the Hate or Love begin.

Well, something that a lot of people seem to be ignorant of, willfully or otherwise, is that we were unarmed from the time we entered the Sultana's Chambers until we arrived at Black Brush Station. There's no cutscene for it and players with their weapons hidden wouldn't notice it, but presumably we had to give up our weapons when going in and got them back from Pipin during the ride. You can confirm this for yourself - make sure your weapon is toggled on and rewatch some of "The Parting Glass" at an inn. You'll be unarmed until you disembark from the wagon.

"It's not in my character's persona to give up their weapon, especially with this conspiracy afoot!"
Boo hoo. You don't have complete control of your character during the main scenario.

"Merlwyb got to take her guns in!"
Diplomatic immunity or the Monetarists didn't care.

Nobody can realistically fight without a weapon - not even PUG / MNK. NIN might be able to make an unarmed escape, but that wouldn't be fair to non-NIN players.

"I'd fight anyway!"
... and end up dead or in the Marasaja Pit with Raubahn. Game over.

OK, let's get started.

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Originally Posted by Aoxaviar

First - Through Live letters and Forum postings there is a decent amount of noise about the community wanting to fight with or "throw down" with the Scions specifically.

Second - As the title of this implies - SE and FF titles have had battle scenes related to major cut scenes (FFVII - Motorcycle riding out of Midgar and FFX - Titus and Auron battling towards Sin at the beginning and the progression fight to get to Yuna at the Blitzball Tournament). Personally, they could have done this here...and more.

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1. We've fought alongside the Scions before - the Escape from Castrum Centri (sp?) was nothing but that and a pseudo-stealth mission to break them out.
2. Either way, no weapon (see above). There wasn't anyone to get your weapon back for you until later, when Pipin presumably did so. Is it possible to have done more here...? Yes it is, but that would require time and attention they didn't have, I guess, or they didn't think people would be so upset over not being treated like a god walking amongst mere mortals for once.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aoxaviar

One - Seemed weird to me (with SE's history) that we turn and run during a time when we could fight and it wouldn't be able to affect overall storyline in a plausible way.

Two - The big reveal in Corethas was the largest of letdowns. In the tunnel and seeing her get unmasked while fighting along side us - would have been totally epic and adding to the previous flavor of showing us what the Scions and even the Major Leaders are capable of in the past.

Three - It may just have been me, but I found it borderline criminal, that after the build up of all of that, the hurriedness/shaky storytelling that showed up after we first split up.

Four - Considering that even the Syndicate would not be able to let leak the fact the tunnel exists, they couldn't cover how a large group of blades and braves are either dead or totally busted up when most people would not have seen a fight break out anywhere in Ul'Dah...and if they did, it would help us in the credibility department.

Lastly - Yoshi-P has told us that Payalimo[sic] and Yda will be further explored in 3.0. So if they really do kill off 2 or 3 Scions, I personally would have perferred an NPC party fight style which ended with Minfilia and ourselves running away so they can do what they did (epic and cool, but also kinda odd knowing SE's history and they would go Holy that quick)

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1. No weapon, couldn't fight (see above).

2. While a lot of people seem upset over the lack of drama surrounding Yugiri's unmasking and the Warrior of Light not being shaken to their core, I'm fine with it. While I would have been a little shocked at first much like the Warrior of Light (and stared for a few minutes), the fact they take it in stride is actually pretty nice. Why? It shows they care more about Yugiri's character than her race or appearance - she's a good person, and that's all that matters. Just like I won't hate all Lalafell because Teledji Adeledji, Lolorito, and Yuyuhase happen to be douches, I won't treat Yugiri differently or be weirded out by her unmasked appearance (beyond a few moments of initial shock).

3. The quality of the story after our escape from the Fragrant Chamber is a bit off (pacing, etc.), but aside from the 2-minute intermission you get to talk (yes, I timed it), I didn't feel like it was particularly weak. 'sides, you can chalk those 2 minutes up to them needing to subdue Raubahn and muster the forces to take on the Scions.

4. At this point the Monetarists (a small group within the Syndicate who are your real enemies) can fabricate pretty much any information they need to keep their grasp on power, at least within Ul'dah / the greater Thanalan region. There's no one left to keep them in check, and pretty much all of the soldiers stationed in Ul'dah will obey them out of loyalty or fear (even if they look the other way when you come around).

Last. I'm +99.9% sure none of the Scions actually bit the big one. They're too popular and integral to the story. For the rest, no weapon couldn't fight (see above).

Cilia pretty much summarised what I was going to say.

Basically fighting would have been counter productive. The only reason any of our allies fight is to buy time for others to escape.

One of the core points of these events is that they have striped us of so much of our support and left us effectively pariahs. The Monetarists very effectively set us up and put us into a position where almost any action we took would just make us look worse. That was the point. This is our Empire Strikes Back. The bad guys have won big and we have been knocked back.

That is a good thing. Why? Cause the story isn't over. It means in Heavensward we can have our Return of the Jedi and it will be even more satisfying when we bring Ilberd, the traitor Braves and the Monetarists low.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Cilia pretty much summarised what I was going to say.

Basically fighting would have been counter productive. The only reason any of our allies fight is to buy time for others to escape.

One of the core points of these events is that they have striped us of so much of our support and left us effectively pariahs. The Monetarists very effectively set us up and put us into a position where almost any action we took would just make us look worse. That was the point. This is our Empire Strikes Back. The bad guys have won big and we have been knocked back.

That is a good thing. Why? Cause the story isn't over. It means in Heavensward we can have our Return of the Jedi and it will be even more satisfying when we bring Ilberd, the traitor Braves and the Monetarists low.

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Don't forget Laurentius. He is the N1 on my list -____-

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Don't forget Laurentius. He is the N1 on my list -____-

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Laurentius is scum not even worth killing. Nope, I'm gunning for Ilberd.

Nobody dismembers my General and gets away with it. Nobody!

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Laurentius is scum not even worth killing. Nope, I'm gunning for Ilberd.

Nobody dismembers my General and gets away with it. Nobody!

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But he bretay us, AGAIN. We took piity of that guy.. and we desiced to gave him a second chanse.. Dam him