Take away the MP cost on our attacks

will i say take it off OR let all DoW use mp by there attack's then we will see how much other like been pined down with mp cost it's really easy

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Originally Posted by bloodoath

it also seems that they gave pug's 2 other tp generating abilities aswell, use these?

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basically all classes have the their own alternate to these abilities, but without the mp cost, hence the complaint.

Take mp cost away from light strike.. Mp cost for pummel is fine.

In a prolonged fight, once you're outta MP you are extremely crippled, as a DoW class this seems wrong to some degree.

I agree with DGmart here, take away the MP cost for Light strike and keep it for Pummel. Seems reasonable and fair to me.

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Originally Posted by DGMart

Take mp cost away from light strike.. Mp cost for pummel is fine.

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That's. . . backwards, though. Other classes have Pummel equivalents with no MP cost. That I know of, no other class has a Light Strike equivalent, and Light Strike is the one that actually gives you a buff. If one of them had to stay (and it shouldn't), it should be Light Strike.

Alternately, they could give everyone MP costs on their basic attacks and piss us all off. Whichever. >_>

I thnk they just start to tweaking PUG to fit mnk purposes. A melle class who use mp to "boost" his attks. Looks at vedant hora (raid weapon for pug) gives mnd. So i am think the pug will be a DRK type but using mp instead of hp to improve attks and other abilitys. Bt they need to increase his mp pool for sure. It sucks atm. XD

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Originally Posted by Galka75

I thnk they just start to tweaking PUG to fit mnk purposes. A melle class who use mp to "boost" his attks. Looks at vedant hora (raid weapon for pug) gives mnd. So i am think the pug will be a DRK type but using mp instead of hp to improve attks and other abilitys. Bt they need to increase his mp pool for sure. It sucks atm. XD

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Except that +Mind from gear doesn't (currently) convert to +MP. All it does is give +Magic Defense, basically, so the Hora is more an example of "Hey, guys, don't forget that tanks need MND to survive magic attacks."

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Except that +Mind from gear doesn't (currently) convert to +MP. All it does is give +Magic Defense, basically, so the Hora is more an example of "Hey, guys, don't forget that tanks need MND to survive magic attacks."

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You guys must try to dont argue all whiout think in the futures patch. So dont say omg pug is nerfed whit mp consuming abilitys. Try to see the overall of the matter. This is just the very first step on the battle mechanic. For the stats dotn giving mp and hp they sqy they will make the armor stats more noticiable an a important matter on the playstyles along whit materia system incoming. So is not crazy tothink they will defining classes whit his weapon stats. And waiting for 1.19 to see... OOH that was for that!

The mnd for tanks... Since when pug is a tank oriented job if taunt have 50 secs recast?

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Originally Posted by Galka75

The mnd for tanks... Since when pug is a tank oriented job if taunt have 50 secs recast?

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Oh, that's a riot. If you're relying on Taunt for aggro, you're failing so, so hard. . .

---------ETA---------

Since when is GLA a tank if Heavy Slash has a 60 sec recast?
Since when is GLA a tank if Heavy Stab has a 60 sec recast?
Since when is MRD a tank if Warmonger has a 120 sec recast?
Since when is MRD a tank if Full Swing has a 60 sec recast?

Your question was so far beyond pointless. . .

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Oh, that's a riot. If you're relying on Taunt for aggro, you're failing so, so hard. . .

---------ETA---------

Since when is GLA a tank if Heavy Slash has a 60 sec recast?
Since when is GLA a tank if Heavy Stab has a 60 sec recast?
Since when is MRD a tank if Warmonger has a 120 sec recast?
Since when is MRD a tank if Full Swing has a 60 sec recast?

Your question was so far beyond pointless. . .

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Ein? I just saying a tank need mitigate dmg aslong hold enmity. Is cleary th want focus th gladiator as a the main tankb so why do you write about attack abilitys? The enmity generated by those abilitys is barely a support. And btw the pug dont have enmity-attks. So why do you think pug will be tank and mnd will play a important role on this?

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Originally Posted by Galka75

Ein? I just saying a tank need mitigate dmg aslong hold enmity. Is cleary th want focus th gladiator as a the main tankb so why do you write about attack abilitys? The enmity generated by those abilitys is barely a support. And btw the pug dont have enmity-attks. So why do you think pug will be tank and mnd will play a important role on this?

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Right, because Jarring Strike clearly isn't an enmity attack. I mean, it's not like we get +Defense and +Evade abilities, or abilities that only work after an evade. Since, y'know, you can only evade often if you're tanking.

I mention those specific attacks because, even though the enmity off of them isn't much, it adds up. Much like you'd throw out the occasional Taunt. You can't rely on any one class's abilities to tank. It doesn't work. Saying "Taunt has a 50 second recast. How can PGL tank with that?" is the same as saying "Heavy Slash has a 60 second recast. How can GLA tank with that?" It's factually correct, but so far removed from the big picture as to be meaningless. GLA and PGL both need other class's abilities to tank effectively. So does MRD, and MRD actually beats the other two on certain fights.

I am afraid we will not see diferent ways to tank. Is sad for me. I wish see a kitty tanker meaby. Shadown tanker. Pug abilitys ti absorb dmg whit MP? etc etc. But... I am afraid this will never see the light. :_( hope i am really wrong.

Btw heav slahs 60 secs recast but provoke have 30? Wardrum 40?

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Originally Posted by Galka75

I am afraid we will not see diferent ways to tank. Is sad for me. I wish see a kitty tanker meaby. Shadown tanker. Pug abilitys ti absorb dmg whit MP? etc etc. But... I am afraid this will never see the light. :_( hope i am really wrong.

Btw heav slahs 60 secs recast but provoke have 30? Wardrum 40?

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Wardrum is crap enmity. >_>

Anyway, at the moment GLA is the "default" tank, I guess, but MRD has fights where it shines, such as the Ogre. Sadly, I think PGL is overshadowed at the moment, but it is still a tanking class. At least, until jobs come out and we learn that GLA is the only tank from now on. . . >_<

If it hasn't been mentioned before, there's a thread about this in General here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ls-singled-out.

Considering the mods haven't posted in the Disciples section since April, I don't think there's a chance this'll even get seen here.

yes please, remove the mp cost on Pug abilities...its quit annoying...especially when your involved in a lengthy fight, IE faction NMs.

i like th fact PUG abilities require mp, makes us think on fight and plan an strategy... the downside is..... compared to the other DD jobs (specially Archer) wich almost dont have abilities that require mp compared to Pug... and the fact Pug is actually the job with minor MP pool.... that put us in an extremelly disadvantage in eficiency specially against monsters that take long time to kill such as NMs or ogre in dungeon, i like it the way PUG has to think how to use ts abilities cause this "disadvantage" but seriously... it put us on a huge disadvantage in eficiency compared to ALL other jobs at moment of play DD against Monsters that take long time to kill, beign us the first in run out mp and shortening the abilities that feed us TP while all other jobs just keep going and going and going.

I guess we have to bring Ether to these long fights?

I often recover enough MP with Siphon. It was always enough for me to gain more MP than i use with pummel and light strike.

IMO they both can stay with MP cost (even though i'd rather HP cost) because Pummel is superior than Full Swing in every aspect...half recast, damage better than the AA and nearly the same TP generated. Light strike is fine too...i just wanted its effect to last long enough for us to be able to use Light Strike again...8 seconds effect with an action that have 20 sec recast = stupid.

Take it off plz or give PUGS Chi Blast,Burning Fist and a mp regen move.

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Originally Posted by DexterityJones

I guess we have to bring Ether to these long fights?

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If Ethers were able to be used multiple times would be ok but using 1 ether to recover only 50MP for a long fight such like Uraeus or Ogre is just not enough, i do actually carry ethers and use them and i tell yah , is not enough, is really stressing we watch our damage input go nearly inexistant on such important fights cause the mp cost on such basic actions, and you notice that on Uraeus alot, a party with damage dealers consistin on PUGs would go fatality slow than if any other jobs cause this same reason, Uraeus having such Regen effect and pugilist in need to either stop attackin to gain mp back to keep attackin fiercelly, or just reduce the fierce of your attacks to save mp is just worthless. we are the most gimped/useless job when it is about long time fights cause the mp cost on these abilities

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Originally Posted by Ninja-Ki

Take it off plz or give PUGS Chi Blast,Burning Fist and a mp regen move.

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They did gie you a MP regen move. Its called Siphon MP, and its accessable to anyone.

I don't approve of MP lose due to physical attacks on PGL. It is very annoying and PGL can't focus on strength AND having a lot of MP. One of the attacks uses 20 MP! It rediculous.

Coglin, As DD, Siphon MP is very inconviencing to use especially when SP (Grass Raptors for instance, your constantly moving. Siphon MP slows you down.)

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Originally Posted by Coglin

They did gie you a MP regen move. Its called Siphon MP, and its accessable to anyone.

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I lawled. :)

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Originally Posted by Coglin

They did gie you a MP regen move. Its called Siphon MP, and its accessable to anyone.

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1. its not a part of the pugilist skill list. So why are you throwing it into the basic level 1 job skills

2. It is less usefull unless monsters are dead, which doesnt help the whole endurance fight issue

3. It may in fact not be accessible to everyone much longer, they are still doing thier skill reviews, and jobs will have cross class skill limitations.

there is numerous other problems, but really, so what. If thats the answer why is pugilist the only class with an mp cost on a basic tp building manuever, when even the magic classes dont have an mp cost IT IS TOTALLY ILLOGICAL AND FOOLISH

I like the idea of MP based skills...but make them look Magical - animations aren't so great, and also have the chance to hit be magical formula rather than physical formula or some such!

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Originally Posted by Naylia

I like the idea of MP based skills...but make them look Magical - animations aren't so great, and also have the chance to hit be magical formula rather than physical formula or some such!

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we arent talking about the idea of having mp based attacks for some classes, we are talking about basic tp building skills requiring mp for the pugilist class. No one is complaining about seismic shock.

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Originally Posted by Physic

1. its not a part of the pugilist skill list. So why are you throwing it into the basic level 1 job skills

(wait, we are only allowed to use level 1 spells/abilites in your version of this conversation? its called the ARMORY system, know it, learn it, love it. Look at the ability Siphon MP. It says Diciple of Magic/Diciple of WAR. Last time iI checked, PUG was a DoW.)
2. It is less usefull unless monsters are dead, which doesnt help the whole endurance fight issue

Contradict yourself in one sentance. How does is difinitively not help just because it is less usefull? CON/THM who are TOTALLY MP dependent seem to do just fine using it in a long fight.

3. It may in fact not be accessible to everyone much longer, they are still doing thier skill reviews, and jobs will have cross class skill limitations.

Either your Dion Warwick(if you don't know the name look it up) or you realize your arguement so weak that you are resorting to "what ifs", because this point is illogical and irrelavent.

there is numerous other problems, but really, so what. If thats the answer why is pugilist the only class with an mp cost on a basic tp building manuever, when even the magic classes dont have an mp cost IT IS TOTALLY ILLOGICAL AND FOOLISH

This last statement though I can somewhat agree with.

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Perhaps there is a future reason for it? Thats blatent speculation, but it is odd that its the ONLY ability of its nature.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Perhaps there is a future reason for it? Thats blatent speculation, but it is odd that its the ONLY ability of its nature.

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there is no logical reason for it. I assume that it was either a mistake, or monk will have mp management abilities, but that really doesnt excuse PUGILIST having its basic attacks that everyone else gets for free, some of the same ones infact, cost mp. The class should be logical within itself. One of the advantages of monk should not be ungimping a senseless mp cost to basic attacks.

Wait...wha.....

You just said there is no logical reason for it, then gave a perfectly logical reason for it.

Its a matter of perspective. I think there is no logical reason for crafters and gatherers to be treated as second class citizens. But appearently the devs have a different logic then yours or mine, and well, there perspective is the one that counts in the situation.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Wait...wha.....

You just said there is no logical reason for it, then gave a perfectly logical reason for it.

Its a matter of perspective. I think there is no logical reason for crafters and gatherers to be treated as second class citizens. But appearently the devs have a different logic then yours or mine, and well, there perspective is the one that counts in the situation.

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its not logical for monk to be the answer to a pugilist issue, because jobs arent supposedly not supposed to replace classes. Even if they plan on monk having mp regen, that still doesnt not solve the issue for a pugilist, even more so because monk specific abilities are not armory abilities, you cant put them on your pugilist.

If its a plan made for monk, then the cost should only be applied to monk. a pugilist is not a monk. As far as crafting issues, i disagree with some of them there. But even if i didnt, it helps nobody to make illogical descions in every aspect of the game.

Ok devs, you made your point, you can gimp pugilist for no reason if you like i get it, now you can kindly roll back those changes, it was a funny joke bro... now take off the mp cost...

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Originally Posted by Physic

its not logical for monk to be the answer to a pugilist issue, because jobs arent supposedly not supposed to replace classes. Even if they plan on monk having mp regen, that still doesnt not solve the issue for a pugilist, even more so because monk specific abilities are not armory abilities, you cant put them on your pugilist.

If its a plan made for monk, then the cost should only be applied to monk. a pugilist is not a monk. As far as crafting issues, i disagree with some of them there. But even if i didnt, it helps nobody to make illogical descions in every aspect of the game.

Ok devs, you made your point, you can gimp pugilist for no reason if you like i get it, now you can kindly roll back those changes, it was a funny joke bro... now take off the mp cost...

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Not to mention it slows down pug to fight at all i.e. cure/fight/cure. The cast for cure makes it much more difficult for pugs to solo and it looses it's chance to gain TP in certain situations. It will make the job slower than other jobs fighting, thus making pug slower than other DOW jobs.