Question about the new Jobs in 3.0 Heavensward

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Originally Posted by Darius-Stormcrow

Personally I hope they start from level one. It's easier to learn a class by learning skills and strategies one at a time as opposed to getting the whole toolkit dropped on you at once. That said, no matter what happens I'm gonna be taking Drk all the way to 60.

Preferably with some good training montage music.

I'm thinking "Hearts on Fire".

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exactly the class quests up to 50 teach you how to play the class if they skip that altogether then gonna have alot of dark knights running around with no clue how to play thier class lol

I'm assuming that this is a mid way to a class free system or if it is based on a soul stone the stone may have level requirements of the previous classes. It could also mean the Job Dark Knight is either its own class or is a job based on a soul stone instead of a weapon. To be a gladiator you had to equip a sword and to be a pld a sword + soul stone. Dark would be a job that doesn't need to have a weapon equipped just the soul stone.

If it is its own class then dark Knight will follow the existing system with a lv 1 weapon and 10 cross abilities. But will gain expanded abilities and traits at lv 30 with its soul stone and limit it to 5 specific cross abilities without changing its name or icon. If its the later, then we would be going back to a lv 1 tank, healer or ranged support. If enough people start leveling dark that'll give more ques for dps on DF though.

thats why they made DK tank instead of dps so making it start at 50 skippin all the previous content just doesnt make any sense... why would they release a class to help with queues then make its base level 50??

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Originally Posted by Kotemon

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Most likely the 3 new Jobs will follow a new concept that the character can only become a Dark Knight, Mach, and Astro by equiping both their Main Weapon and Soulstone.

As Yoshi-P stated, the 3 new Jobs are pure Jobs from the start and will not have a class or class like system compared to current classes/jobs.

Being a Pure Job from the get go we can expect that it may follow the basic rules of Jobs being that it only allows 5 cross-skill (6 Cross-skills in 3.0 due to level cap increase), Requires Job Soulstone, and Weapon designed for the Job.

The level 1 quests of DK, mach, and Astro may focus on how we obtain the Job Soulstone and our 1st Job Weapon. After that it may focus on teaching us our Job roles and functions while introducing and progressing their Job Storyline through level 5 to 60.

I'm not gonna lie, I hope they start at level 1. Not even from a learning standpoint for other players.
I personally wanna get close to my job and build a relationship with it. Thats just me though.

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Originally Posted by Volsung

I'm not gonna lie, I hope they start at level 1. Not even from a learning standpoint for other players.
I personally wanna get close to my job and build a relationship with it. Thats just me though.

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same since mechanist is gonna be my new main i want it to start from level 1 if they release it at 50 i prolly wont even touch it :P

where can i find the new jobs gameplay videos like dark knight and machinist?

im pretty sure it's gonna be like rogue: you can't pick it as starter class, but you just need to unlock armory at lv 10, then you can go pick it up.

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

it seems that these new classes may be available to new characters from the get go with the heavenward expansion, but that said most likely it will start at level 1 so that people will LEARN there classes by the time there level 60 (i know right they want people to LEARN as they level, its almost as most just fate grind and ignore that idea completely :P )

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i fate grinded to 50, with Nin, in 1-2 days...and wow, i knew how to use it, before getting lv 50, how odd!
the concept that you have to complete a lot of different content, to be considered to know your job...is ridiculous.
if you get to 50, complete all class/job quests, and you still don't know how to play your job...there's something wrong with you.
regardless: AV is annoying as hell, mostly cause lv sync, and loosing lv 50 skills; so the difference between lv 49 and 50, is fairly big - so you may need to rework your rotation at 50, anyway, regardless how long it took you to get there, and how much content you did.
even if you started at lv 60, it would take less than an hour to work out a good rotation, and set up skill bar. For nin we saw job video, and ppl worked out what each skill was/did, and rotations, before nin was even released....the rotations that ppl worked out, barely changed from pre-release, to capping their nins.

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

exactly the class quests up to 50 teach you how to play the class if they skip that altogether then gonna have alot of dark knights running around with no clue how to play thier class lol

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ya, cause everyone at lv 50, in poetics gear, are great players, right? :) not really.
there's plenty of ppl at lv 50, that don't know how to play their jobs, even with all the class/story content you need to do, to unlock end-game stuff.
that said though, i still think it would be stupid to add the new jobs, as lv 50.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Main Weapon and Soulstone.
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Have they actually confirmed that soul stones will still be a thing for the new jobs, i mean they have no base class, they don't actually need soulstones, because you just equip your weapon to change jobs

What learning, half the classes I leveled to to 50 I have no idea what the abilities do.
The 1-2 days of Farming fates/leves using 1 button macros does not teach you how to heal or tank or even dps well.

ITT: 2 pages worth of ignoring the comment about how this will never happen at the very least due to not giving RMT free lvl 50's.

Edit: guess page claim makes that 3, or 2.somethin.

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Originally Posted by papichulo123

where can i find the new jobs gameplay videos like dark knight and machinist?

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Here

Dark Knight Trailer
http://a.pomf.se/xqdbbw.webm

Astrologian Trailer
http://a.pomf.se/jktuif.webm

Machinist Trailer
http://a.pomf.se/numrwy.webm

They released these during the London Fan Fest.

Back on Topic:

You also have to remember SE and Yoshi-P have a Job Storyline to tell for these Jobs as well so they need a way to apply the Job Storyline to DK, Mach, and Astro at a steady rate.

Starting at lvl 50 will not give them much room to provide a Proper storyline unless they cram it all into lvl 50 to lvl 60 (either make all Job Storyline Quest not require a level or 1 Job quest per level through lvl 50 to 60.)

Currently now the Job Storyline follows a 5 level per Job Quest to progress the Job Storyline but as of now we can assume DK, Mach, and Astro may follow this concept of their Job Storyline progressing every 5 levels as well unless farther info arrives saying their Job Storyline will progress differently.

It really is easy to speculate. The only thing we do know is that these jobs do not have base classes. That fact alone could easily infer any number of design choices the dev team may take. I think many of us are interested in knowing that this means for a number of things...
* Does this imply larger changes to the class/armory/job system as we know it today?
* Do these jobs simply introduce a new type of job (i.e. class and job are one in the same or some type of advanced job)?

I'd rather have a bad tank who is new to tanking than to have a decent tank who is a veteran tanker.

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Originally Posted by Faelandaea

Right now it takes a maximum of 3 - 4 days for casual players to reach max level. If you are a hardcore-player/have-no-life/no-job/no-girlfriend it'd take 1, maybe 2 days to get from 0 - 50. With the level cap increase I'll add maybe a day to all of the above.

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What? The hell do you consider casual?!? I must be leveling wrong because I'm nowhere near that fast.

Honestly I hope it takes much longer to get to 60 than it is from 1-50 because the game is way too fast. Should atleast take 1 week for hardcore players and for casual 2 weeks.

to get from 50-60

50/60 would be hilariously bad as a design choice. Level 1 would be likely, but that's only because the statement they made about it, "Being available to anyone who buys Heavensward" can be taken all kinds of ways. I personally think level 30 makes the most sense.

After the expansion, that's halfway to 60, which allows a comfortable entrance into the game for new players and returning players alike. People coming back for DRK don't want to re-level from scratch. New (and returning) players want to be involved in end-game content as quickly as possible. Fast-tracking both crowds of players has a lot of benefits, with very few detriments.

There's no argument to be had about 'learning a Job' either. 1-15/16 is solo content. 16-30 is dungeons, which involves doing partial, broken rotations with very few cooldowns to manage. It's fodder content, basically. At that, it's only like 12-13 dungeons, which is barely much more than 7-8 hours (10 max) of game time. You aren't learning much in that time frame. However, once you hit 30, things start getting interesting, for a lot of Jobs. You get things to actually manage, that actually make a big difference to DPS/healing/support/mitigation.

The only real reason for them to start them at level 1 is for consistency sake. In terms of game systems, and in terms of Job/Class story.

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Originally Posted by Amenian

What? The hell do you consider casual?!? I must be leveling wrong because I'm nowhere near that fast.

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Well, me for starters. I am a casual player - full time job - full time college - a fiance - so I don't spend all day gaming, and still it takes that amount of time to level a job. The only time it took me longer to level a job was my first job, because I was one of those annoying assholes you ALL hate who actually watched cut-scenes and read dialogue to take in all the lore. So it took me almost a week to reach 50 on my first job. But that was just me being lazy and not pushing at all for levels, but rather just enjoying all the side quests and lore.

Just a note, though, you not being that fast in no ways says you are doing something wrong. It just says that you take your time and soak in more around you is all. My response was aimed at the people who are just focused on leveling and not really doing anything else but seeing about getting to max level.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

As someone who was at Fan Fest I can confirm that Yoshi said that anyone can unlock and play any of the new jobs as soon as they buy the expansion. That means there are no unlock requirements beyond owning the expansion. If a new player can unlock these jobs with ease there is no way they'll start at a higher level.

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This was specifically said at the London fan fest. No ulocks, no getting to level 10. Just own the expansion and you can start as a Dark Knight.

Other mmos have done hero jobs when they come out with new jobs in an expansion so players won't have to replay all the levels they done before, so its not as farfetched as people think. But SE didn't say anything about doing this.

They said the new jobs would be unlockable after the quest that lets you use the armoury system at level 10, didn't they? I would say they'd start at level 1 then, because it'd be all like "lol i'm gunna hit stuff til lvl 10 then instant 50 ftw."

Edit: And somehow I never noticed this thread had seven pages to it. Sorry if it was already answered!

It's release day. You've barely slept due to all the anticipation. The servers come online and you venture into the expansion. Beautiful new lands! So many new creatures and sights to be seen! It's like a whole new game!!!!

You unlock Dark Knight...

... Now get your ass back to Middle La Noscea to grind the same fates you've done hundreds of times before, all while queued for the same dungeons you've been doing for nearly 2 years.

Doesn't sound like much fun to me. Honestly, unless they add NEW low level content in the expansion (new low level zones with new fates and new low level instances to queue for), I'd rather these jobs start at some higher level.

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

It's release day. You've barely slept due to all the anticipation. The servers come online and you venture into the expansion. Beautiful new lands! So many new creatures and sights to be seen! It's like a whole new game!!!!

You unlock Dark Knight...

... Now get your ass back to Middle La Noscea to grind the same fates you've done hundreds of times before, all while queued for the same dungeons you've been doing for nearly 2 years.

Doesn't sound like much fun to me. Honestly, unless they add NEW low level content in the expansion (new low level zones with new fates and new low level instances to queue for), I'd rather these jobs start at some higher level.

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A valid point. Although I don't think that many people will actually be doing many dungeons when the expansion launches. It seems more likely that most people will be fate grinding like they did when the game first launched.

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

It's release day. You've barely slept due to all the anticipation. The servers come online and you venture into the expansion. Beautiful new lands! So many new creatures and sights to be seen! It's like a whole new game!!!!

You unlock Dark Knight...

... Now get your ass back to Middle La Noscea to grind the same fates you've done hundreds of times before, all while queued for the same dungeons you've been doing for nearly 2 years.

Doesn't sound like much fun to me. Honestly, unless they add NEW low level content in the expansion (new low level zones with new fates and new low level instances to queue for), I'd rather these jobs start at some higher level.

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They might have a few low level areas in the new zones, but I don't expect there to be many and truly would not want there to be many. I would much rather the majority of the new areas be focused on 50-60 content, preferably lots of areas where level 60s can roam around and have it not be a complete cakewalk like how every zone is right now at level 50. I want overworld areas to feel dangerous again. Supposably they are doing something to make them more dangerous but as to what I do not know at this time.

We already have a ton of low level areas in the game.

If you don't want to level up in the old areas.. well maybe you'll get your wish, but I hope not. Personally I want the large majority of the new areas to be 50-60 so that I can explore them with a sense of danger and curiosity. I want areas that feel dangerous at level 60. Areas you should want to grab friends and go explore cautiously, not areas you can just waltz around in all by yourself without a care in the world.

I have 0 issues leveling up the new jobs in the old zones and dungeons, that is after all their purpose. Take that away and you make those zones completely useless. I want to see those areas come alive again with people leveling up, not become completely abandoned forever. Sure we have hunts, but those only invigorate zones for a very short duration of time.

If you can, think back to this game's open beta and launch. Players were all over the zones leveling up with quests and fates and leves, dungeon ques were fairly fast even for dps jobs. That's what this game needs, and that's what you're likely to see again when 3.0 hits. If you are a person who doesn't like leveling up then... maybe mmos in general aren't for you? Specially one that focuses on letting players level up every class/job they want on one character.

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Originally Posted by Ecks007

They might have a few low level areas in the new zones, but I don't expect there to be many and truly would not want there to be many. I would much rather the majority of the new areas be focused on 50-60 content, preferably lots of areas where level 60s can roam around and have it not be a complete cakewalk like how every zone is right now at level 50.

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Recently I leveled my Bard to 50, and I had fun doing FATES with people in the Process plant and weaving dungeons. If all 3 came out at once, there will be an abundance
of us trying to level the jobs with FATES so it shouldn't be too hard...unless they die in 5 seconds lol. I see his point too...2 years in and we're back at square one again but eh. They need to keep making low levels relevant for
others newbies out there. So I don't mind it, and to switch it up...dungeons! Gotta learn your jobs as you go, so I'll be mixing it up along the way.
Everyone should have a good time when 3.0 comes out. :3

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

Leveling for new people is a different animal given that they probably have an abundance of quests to do, whereas most players with multiple 50s likely have next to none, if any still available to them.

Fate grinding is going to be the way to level much like it was when the game first cam out. I'm betting that a large portion of players grind to 60 first, then go back to do all of the story stuff.

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Well you know what I meant...for the people who alt level and some newbies still FATE grind while waiting on a DF to pop.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

They need to keep making low levels relevant for others newbies out there.

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Leveling for new people is a different animal given that they probably have an abundance of quests to do, whereas most players with multiple 50s likely have next to none, if any still available to them.

Fate grinding is going to be the way to level much like it was when the game first cam out. I'm betting that a large portion of players grind to 60 first, then go back to do all of the story stuff.

Again - as many others have pointed out, unless they come up with a few new low levels dungeons - preferably in the level 30s-60s, you can almost guess that everyone will be FATE grinding. Just look what happened last year when Ninja was released - with no healer and tank jobs - even at launch, when there are plenty of tanks and healers. Everyone loves FATE grinding, it's easy, any dumb dumb can do it, and less trolling from people who love to abuse lower level healers and tanks.

What would be interesting to find out is this - what happen to those "current endgame dungeons" we have, are they becoming "experience dungeons" from level 50-60? Are we going to deal with the same "dreadful - 2 dungeons to grind at the new endgame on level 60"? Remember the launch in 2013 when all you do is grinding Adampor Keep and Wanderer Palace (and the two main mission dungeons) OVER and OVER and OVER....

Are all the endgame contents from 2.0 will suddenly be irrelevant? Or they will be beefed up and "remixed"? Otherwise 3.0 will be such a dull grind with 3 dungeons to rotate, and maybe 5 "coil style" raid, and if we are lucky 1 "crystal tower" raid. It could be a hot mess of launch - fingers crossed they LEARNED big time on how to tune the old contents (and make them relevant). Right now, FF14 2.5 has so many options and contents and in a really great spot.