Women and Armor!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

They did that with the Noct Lorica. Result? Cute girls with abs.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...1CVlBwLvQlHmLw

People complained (and rightly so).

Style is important, in a FF game.

---

More people have complained over the stab window in the DRG AF than the noct lorica abs.

But it's irrelevant really. The devs have made their decision. More gender dimorphic gear is being introduced. More gear that is plainly there for titillation also. I think no amount of these kind of threads is going to change their minds one iota. It just seems a shame to me because I had expected more after playing XI and XIV 1.0 and being spoiled by the more mature approach.

I sense a Rokien...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naelle

I sense a Rokien...

---

I have no problem with people wearing what they want to wear, but let's not pretend the level 1 RSE was introduced for any reason other than cheap tawdry "Tee hee, I can see her underwear"

Let's call a spade a spade.

Ok gonna bite on this thread, as a owner of the FF14 artbook that I acquired at fanfest. Theres little quotes from the designers of the artwork on every piece.
The most striking quote was that the start race gear was designed with cosplayers in mind and was aided by cosplayers, which you might notice most high profile cosplayers are female.

I still don't see how this game is as 'juvenile' as some want to say. Outside of the coatee line, a large portion of level 1 vanity and a handful of other armor, the armor in this game is rather unisex, conservative and barely anything to get 'bothered' over. Monster Hunter is more dimorphic than this game (and more over the top). Calling back to my previous posts, there's Korean games where the ENTIRE library of female armor is titillating eye-candy clearly aimed at appealing to male players. Comparing this game to that is being very shortsighted. The developers have spoken, and they obviously prefer practical over puerile.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilraen

I still don't see how this game is as 'juvenile' as some want to say. Outside of the coatee line, a large portion of level 1 vanity and a handful of other armor, the armor in this game is rather unisex, conservative and barely anything to get 'bothered' over. Monster Hunter is more dimorphic than this game (and more over the top). Calling back to my previous posts, there's Korean games where the ENTIRE library of female armor is titillating eye-candy clearly aimed at appealing to male players. Comparing this game to that is being very shortsighted. The developers have spoken, and they obviously prefer practical over puerile.

---

There was a time when there was no impractical gear in this game. They're moving away from that.

Just because other games set a low bar, doesn't mean that's the bar to judge against.

I'm not a fan of the skimpy armors and what-not either, but it doesn't directly effect me. Sure, it's annoying to see the tank in coil running around with glamoured swimwear but not because "omg I can see her (nonexistant)butt!", rather because it breaks my view of how the game is. My view; One of millions that deserves no more and no less than anyone else's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aegis

I've played the game long enough to remember when all the gear was equal for both genders.

Then they added the coatee set: Formal suit and pants for man, miniskirt with stockings and epic cleavage for woman.
Then they added the AFs: WHM: Men get bagy shorts, women get a mini-skirt that changes to panties depending on what you wear, DRG AF has the inexplicable belly window.
Then with 2.0 they relesed the mini-skirt starter RSE.
They've since added Ninja AF with the cleavage for women.

---

Midlander underwear, from the very very beginning of 1.0

female version
http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joy...ar-epl-414.jpg

male version (the left one)
http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/image...erCreation.jpg

Also I think the coatee came ingame 2 or 3 months after launch? I know that there was still the old dev team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aegis

There was a time when there was no impractical gear in this game. They're moving away from that.

Just because other games set a low bar, doesn't mean that's the bar to judge against.

---

impractical gear like gear showing too much skin?

http://www.lakupo.com/ren/ffxiv035.jpg

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/20...37-d2zh8v8.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aegis

There was a time when there was no impractical gear in this game. They're moving away from that.

Just because other games set a low bar, doesn't mean that's the bar to judge against.

---

I think you dropped this...

https://38.media.tumblr.com/a828af65...dmumo1_500.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

Midlander underwear, from the very very beginning of 1.0

female version
http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joy...ar-epl-414.jpg

male version (the left one)
http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/image...erCreation.jpg

---

Underwear is underwear and doesn't cover much by design. That's normal. That was for a slot that doesn't even exist anymore. Interestingly, since you *had* to wear underwear and you couldn't repair gear you were wearing, you always had to have a second pair to change into. A good life lesson there for us all. The level 1 gear you got when you started was weathered slops or tabard or things like that which varied with your class.

Subligaria are actual combat clothing worn by ancient greeks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gralna

Lulz if you're not wearing two bits of tissue paper connected by dental floss ur such a prude !!!!11!!

---

I can manage to disagree with others without strawmanning their position (Other than the above for illustrative purposes).

I'm beginning to laugh at how hard Aegis is defending his position despite sounding extremely like a Knight Templar without even noticing it...

There's a difference between cleavage bearing and panty shots and basically dressing in bikini armor and trust me as a guy who played DOZENS of MMOs, this game is like a nun house.

"But 1.0 was completely practical" WHO CARES ABOUT PRACTICALITY TO THAT END? Again, I keep hearing the ridiculous practicality behind Female Dragoons having an open part at the stomach over and over, yet not even the best armor in the world shouldn't stop any level of decent magic, a Primal in general and something the size of a Gobbue from killing the user while in said armor.
And if 1.0 is so practical, Why isn't the mage classes wearing armor? Why isn't the Bard/Ninja/Monk classes wearing armor? Hell, why in the real world don't we wear complete bodysuits on the level of bomb squad users? Why just a Kevlar vest?


In MMOs, practicality should just be a user based issue, not a random creed which makes no sense whatsoever.

So then if my argument is a strawman, how'd you rate yours? You said yourself that other games mentioned in this thread are the low end of the bar, I have yet to see anything in game that is worse than these...

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...P26-4p9wD5T4eghttps://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...GLpdb3-CK4c3DUhttps://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...MyXD05vN3OtZPQ

Surely a family oriented media company hasn't set the bar too low for even you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gralna

So then if my argument is a strawman, how'd you rate yours? You said yourself that other games mentioned in this thread are the low end of the bar, I have yet to see anything in game that is worse than these...

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...P26-4p9wD5T4eghttps://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...GLpdb3-CK4c3DUhttps://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...MyXD05vN3OtZPQ

Surely a family oriented media company hasn't set the bar too low for even you?

---

I think I missed the film where Jessica Rabbit was a warrior swinging a battleaxe at a raging primal. If lounge singer were a job in this game, that gear would be very appropriate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xhominid

And if 1.0 is so practical, Why isn't the mage classes wearing armor? Why isn't the Bard/Ninja/Monk classes wearing armor? Hell, why in the real world don't we wear complete bodysuits on the level of bomb squad users? Why just a Kevlar vest?

---

Well, the fantasy trope for this (originally D&D-style game rules) is that heavy armour hinders intricate arm movements needed for casters and martial artists. Also, mages could wear heavy armour in 1.0.

And knights did wear full plate mail armour similar, infantry did wear everything from subligaria and harnesses to chain/scale mail. Shinobi did not wear plate armour. But, at no point in any culture's history did anyone ever think "You know what offers the greatest balance between cost/protection and mobility? A Battle bikini/miniskirt Combo!"

So then the second Ifrit does his inferno breath all cloth characters should burn to a crisp and the tank broils inside his metal armour?

How about when you get stabbed by a lonely imperial you hunch over and bleed to death?

Games are designed around suspension of disbelief. It's why you can take 100 bullets in Call of Duty, bleed out of your eyes for a bit, and then be right as rain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aegis

I think I missed the film where Jessica Rabbit was a warrior swinging a battleaxe at a raging primal. If lounge singer were a job in this game, that gear would be very appropriate.

---

Lol, so you're issue isn't even really if clothes/armor are too revealing, it's that they arn't realistic? This is a Fantasy game, it has Fantasy in it's title, we have giant fire-breathing dragons, people who can teleport halfway across the world in seconds, and a giant sentient crystal that chose you to be her champion... how is any of that realistic?

This isn't Sci-Fi where you're suppose to keep story on a foundation of possible reality, it's Fantasy, writers and artists can do whatever they want, and as long as their boss think it looks nice, it doesn't even need a foundation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gralna

Lol, so you're issue isn't even really if clothes/armor are too revealing, it's that they arn't realistic? This is a Fantasy game, it has Fantasy in it's title, we have giant fire-breathing dragons, people who can teleport halfway across the world in seconds, and a giant sentient crystal that chose you to be her champion... how is any of that realistic?

This isn't Sci-Fi where you're suppose to keep story on a foundation of possible reality, it's Fantasy, writers and artists can do whatever they want, and as long as their boss think it looks nice, it doesn't even need a foundation.

---

The crystal chose me, actually. Said so herself. Not sure I was comfortable though because on that giant crystal I saw not one scrap of clothing...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naelle

The crystal chose me, actually. Said so herself. Not sure I was comfortable though because on that giant crystal I saw not one scrap of clothing...

---

I agree!

SE Put some clothes on Hydaelyn! Her boulders are exposed!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gralna

So then if my argument is a strawman, how'd you rate yours? You said yourself that other games mentioned in this thread are the low end of the bar, I have yet to see anything in game that is worse than these...

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...P26-4p9wD5T4eghttps://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...GLpdb3-CK4c3DUhttps://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...MyXD05vN3OtZPQ

Surely a family oriented media company hasn't set the bar too low for even you?

---

1. When did ANYTHING in this game past Subligars make a character look like that PAST Cloth? And hell, most cloth only show Cleavage and maybe thigh, so yeah?

2. NEITHER of the 3 is even remotely risque or even out of it considering:
A) Jasmine is basically wearing a bellydancer outfit and she isn't much of a fighter
B) Ariel is a mermaid...you expect her to wear a shirt and pants?
C) Jessica Rabbit is a cartoon SPECIFICALLY MADE to be Titillating. She even states as such in the movie.

What point is here at all?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aegis

Well, the fantasy trope for this (originally D&D-style game rules) is that heavy armour hinders intricate arm movements needed for casters and martial artists. Also, mages could wear heavy armour in 1.0.

And knights did wear full plate mail armour similar, infantry did wear everything from subligaria and harnesses to chain/scale mail. Shinobi did not wear plate armour. But, at no point in any culture's history did anyone ever think "You know what offers the greatest balance between cost/protection and mobility? A Battle bikini/miniskirt Combo!"

---

1. Does Heavy Armor benefit Mages in anyway in 1.0? And considering Final Fantasy is BASED on Dungeons & Dragons like most RPGs, they would have similar reasons.

2. And I'm not saying any of that nonsense...
I said it the way I did because in actuality, being in massively heavy armor is a HINDERANCE more than a help in real life(Mainly because mobility is far better or armor costs is more than feasible). I'm not saying a miniskirt/bikini combo works in real life because of course it doesn't, but tell me this:
If an enemy shoots flame that is virtually hot enough to be used as a weapon by a beastman tribe, what level of armor is gonna protect you at all from being torched/being melted alive other than getting the hell out of the way?

So many people are missing the OP's point. The OP isn't complaining about the presence of revealing armor. OP is complaining about why females wearing the exact same gear as males, show more skin. The DRG body was used as a good example.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

So many people are missing the OP's point. The OP isn't complaining about the presence of revealing armor. OP is complaining about why females wearing the exact same gear as males, show more skin. The DRG body was used as a good example.

---

They were probably made with feedback from female cosplayers which some of the armour has so far, and they prob thought what they would wear, lets not beat around the bush, theres far more cosplayers that use costumes that show more skin then the other way around.
Yes really not joking, some of the armour was made with cosplay in mind and was developed along side cosplayers in the designs.

Guys, seriously.

"Why is the same armor more revealing for female characters?" should not even be a serious question.

The answer is simply "fanservice". Guys LIKE seeing scantily clad catgirls. It's as simple as that. Call it sexist or whatever, I don't care - but yeah, generally speaking male humans are way more visual than females, and this means that they are more vulnerable to tits and butts and legs and necks (yes, necks - Japan loves sexy necks).

This is all there is to it. I, for one, rolled a Miqo'te because of nekomimi and general cuteness. Having her resembling Gimli is not exactly what I would like.

So yes, more cleavage, more panty shots, more absolute territory, and more necks. Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

The answer is simply "fanservice". Guys LIKE seeing scantily clad catgirls. It's as simple as that. Call it sexist or whatever, I don't care - but yeah, generally speaking male humans are way more visual than females, and this means that they are more vulnerable to tits and butts and legs and necks (yes, necks - Japan loves sexy necks).

---

Guys can like whatever but that doesn't mean they are the sole populace of this game. As a female, I prefer the option to do whatever I please. No, I don't appreciate the skimpy outfits being forced on me at lvl 44 (and having it be unable to be glamoured cause of lack of a lvl 50) and I don't appreciate the belly window of the DRG AF. I'm all for women sexuality and them choosing what they want. I don't call them slutty for what they wear but I prefer the choice to dress skimpy.

To me, when I was a lvl 44 and forced into the Coliseum gear, panty shots without my consent to the outfit were not considered sexy. But if I wanted the best gear, I needed to run around in a skimpy bra and underwear essentially.

The coatee? I wish. Even after I fantasia'd into a lala, I had to deal with the stupid amount of cleavage when I needed to wear it. Give me the option of being fully covered on my childlike potato body.

So yeah, I don't care if men like scantily clad catgirls...that's not the correct answer to any of this. Why should any person care what men individually like when it comes to dressing their characters?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

Guys can like whatever but that doesn't mean they are the sole populace of this game. As a female, I prefer the option to do whatever I please. No, I don't appreciate the skimpy outfits being forced on me at lvl 44 (and having it be unable to be glamoured cause of lack of a lvl 50) and I don't appreciate the belly window of the DRG AF. I'm all for women sexuality and them choosing what they want. I don't call them slutty for what they wear but I prefer the choice to dress skimpy.

---

Hold the phone, FORCED? FORCED?! Since when? Since freaking when at anytime at 44 are you forced to wear Subligar gear? Since when is there no further option for you to wear ANYTHING else than Subligar and fanservice outfits at 44 at? Please tell me this because my Monk at 44 barely wore ANYTHING past the Subligar top and that was because I actually LIKED the damn thing and didn't bother to get something to different, which you easily can from Market Boards, typical stores, etc.
If anything, this game has far too little skimpy outfits for those who choose to want to wear them. Remember, you is just you, stop acting like you are suddenly others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Guys, seriously.

"Why is the same armor more revealing for female characters?" should not even be a serious question.

The answer is simply "fanservice".

---

Do you even realize that females are human beings (half the human population, in fact), and not just sexy playthings for you to gawk at? They are people who play this game just the same as you. You are talking about your sister, your mom, your grandma, your aunt, and (possibly?) your friends. Do you even have female friends? Maybe some day, when you grow up, you will realize that "fanservice" is not an acceptable dismissal of pervy, creepy, sexually-juvenile pandering in video game character designs.

I am not saying sexy designs have no place, nor has anyone. If it's provided as an option, I say go nuts. Have at it. But in most games (MMOs most notoriously), female "armor" is typically chainmail bikinis and other embarrassingly objectifying garbage. It is forced upon female characters, to a large extent, and that is not cool. Granted, FFXIV is not really as big a problem, relatively speaking -- but it is far from perfect. Look at the Miqo'te starting gear. Notice any differences, between male and female? Why would the female character be showing so much more skin? Because "fanservice"? Do you really think that is an answer?

What you are saying is that video games should be designed and made for male enjoyment, and if females don't like it they can leave. Personally, I have more respect for both females, and video games, than that. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way, but perhaps some day you will grow up and learn that both video games and female human beings are not created solely as masturbatory material for your enjoyment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

Do you even realize that females are human beings (half the human population, in fact), and not just sexy playthings for you to gawk at? They are people who play this game just the same as you. You are talking about your sister, your mom, your grandma, your aunt, and (possibly?) your friends. Do you even have female friends? Maybe some day, when you grow up, you will realize that "fanservice" is not an acceptable dismissal of pervy, creepy, sexually-juvenile pandering in video game character designs.

---

Throwing out insults and making sweeping generalizations about people is not a good way to get your point across. Your entire post just comes off as conceited, as if you think that you're superior because you dislike revealing attire. What about girls that like the revealing armor? Are they pervy, creepy, and sexually-juvenile? Come on, you should know better.

Also, just wanted to add in that this game has way, way more modest armor designs than it does skimpy ones.

I thought about this a while back myself.

Since everyone likes armored up or less armor that I always thought it would be cool if they made two sides of 1 armor set.

like if people decided to be fully armored to the teeth or clicking another option to change the look to less armor look but the same body armor with different looks.

I am not talking glamour, im talking 1 set of armor with two looks to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

"fanservice" is not an acceptable dismissal of pervy, creepy, sexually-juvenile pandering in video game character designs.

What you are saying is that video games should be designed and made for male enjoyment, and if females don't like it they can leave. Personally, I have more respect for both females, and video games, than that. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way, but perhaps some day you will grow up and learn that both video games and female human beings are not created solely as masturbatory material for your enjoyment.

---

I totally agree with you. Some female players (two friends) don't like how some female-version of attires looks on, and its a shame to see them being glamoured it to some cloth-based.

Also, what's with the designs.. either skimpy or baggy? and most repitative with a pinch of color change.

Not mentioning my hate to see male characters walking around in Gowns (Scylla's Robe), the cheapest and esiest design. At least make the male's verson a real robe, or any other healing shirt with same pattern.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

No, I don't appreciate the skimpy outfits being forced on me at lvl 44 (and having it be unable to be glamoured cause of lack of a lvl 50) and I don't appreciate the belly window of the DRG AF.

---

http://xivdb.com/?item/3185/Felt-Robe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

stuff

---

Oh my. Here we are again.

Yes, I do realize that females are human beings (or catgirls, in this case), and yes I do have female friends and also a girlfriend, for that matter (luckily her mindset is similar to mine in many regards, that's why she's my girlfriend). I am grown up enough as I am 29, and I understand and accept how things in this world work.

Please remember that the female Miqo'te was based off the concept of "Idol", and if you are familiar with Japanese culture you should very well know what this implies. So yes, I believe "fanservice" is the answer, because the Idol phenomenon is all about fanservice. Literally, EVERYTHING is about "serving the fans".

And no, I am not saying that games should be designed for male enjoyment. As said, I have a gf who plays this game with me and I know lots of female players who are perfectly happy. But I personally like cute girls, and eye candy is welcome as long as gameplay is not cast aside - and in this case, it is not.

So please throw your feminism at someone else, as I am quite immune :P

As long as the recorded history of mankind reaches, humans "yearned" to sexualize pretty much everything.... Pillows, vegetables, sheep and surprise, surprise, one another. Even through the most chaste times in history everything revolved around trying to get that glimpse at another's less covered part of the body. It shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Not everyone feels exactly the same about it, of course. A bigger selection of more covering garbs would be welcome, just don't expect the majority to make a big deal out of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Please remember that the female Miqo'te was based off the concept of "Idol"

---

Try again. They are based on Mithra in XI which were not in any way fanservicey. No upskirts, no ridiculous cleavage. I think the most fanservicey thing they could wear was a subligar. Byakko's Haidate was shorts iirc rather than the baggier pants like it was on other races, but that was about it.

If you don't think changing gear design to expose more when transferred to a female character is anything other than objectification, I'd be interested to know why. You may be cool with the objectification, your gf may be cool with it. That's fine. But it's objectification nonetheless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

please throw your feminism at someone else, as I am quite immune :P

---

Are you sure that's a good thing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aegis

Try again. They are based on Mithra in XI which were not in any way fanservicey. No upskirts, no ridiculous cleavage. I think the most fanservicey thing they could wear was a subligar. Byakko's Haidate was shorts iirc rather than the baggier pants like it was on other races, but that was about it.

---

Try again yourself, and maybe purchase the official artbook. What I am stating is clearly written there, sorry to break it on you. The "Idol" concept and the cosplayer community (female cosplayers, of course) were the things behind the Miqo'te outfit (also the poses, I'd say).
And anyway, stating that they were based off the Mithras is shortsighted to say the least - as if the Mithra were the first catgirls in the history of Japan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aegis

If you don't think changing gear design to expose more when transferred to a female character is anything other than objectification, I'd be interested to know why. You may be cool with the objectification, your gf may be cool with it. That's fine. But it's objectification nonetheless.

---

Whatever. I think YOU are the one objectifying women, as I never thought of it that way. I am just stating how nature is: men like women, women like men. Sometimes men like men and women like women. But in all cases, if someone thinks something else is beautiful, it's only natural to be attracted to it. If you think this means "objectifying", that's your issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aegis

Are you sure that's a good thing?

---

Yes, I am sure. I am for equality, and feminism is the death of equality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Try again yourself, and maybe purchase the official artbook. What I am stating is clearly written there, sorry to break it on you. The "Idol" concept and the cosplayer community were the things behind the Miqo'te outfit (also the poses, I'd say).
And anyway, stating that they were base off the Mithra is shortsighted to say the least - as if the Mithra were the first catgirls in the history of Japan.

---

The ARR artbook? You are aware that miqo'te existed before ARR? Miqote are based on Mithra, I don't see how that's in any way deniable. Just like Lalafell are based on Taru Taru and Roegadyn are based on Galka. That particular costume may be designed with cosplayers in mind, but that's not what you said. You said:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Please remember that the female Miqo'te was based off the concept of "Idol"

---

I don't see how defending the outfit as being 'aimed at cosplayers' makes it any less tacky.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Whatever. I think YOU are the one objectifying women.

---

Show me how I have reduced a female to her physical attributes. I have advocated nothing more than gear not changing when transferred across genders solely for the purpose of being more revealing (Such as DRG AF or the Coatee set).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

I am just stating how nature is: men like women, women like men. Sometimes men like men and women like women. But in all cases, if someone thinks something else is beautiful, it's only natural to be attracted to it. If you think this means "objectifying", that's your issue.

---

I never argued that being attracted to someone is in any way wrong (though I would worry about being attracted to a computer game character). That's a strawman. What I am arguing is that altering gear across genders for the sole purpose of being more revealing is objectification. That's pretty cut and dry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Yes, I am sure. I am for equality, and feminism is the death of equality.

---

Without this 'death of equality' your gf would not be able to vote and wouldn't be paid as much as her male colleagues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aegis

The ARR artbook? You are aware that miqo'te existed before ARR? Miqote are based on Mithra, I don't see how that's in any way deniable. Just like Lalafell are based on Taru Taru and Roegadyn are based on Galka. That particular costume may be designed with cosplayers in mind, but that's not what you said.

---

That's not the point. Why is a catgirl race present in the first place? I am pretty sure you understand how popular the concept of "catgitls" is, especially for asian anime fans. And guess what - most of the time they are "sexualized in a cutesy way", just like most idols. Miqo'te is a fanservice race, cut and dry - ever wondered why Mithras and 1.0 Miqo'tes were female only?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aegis

I don't see how defending the outfit as being 'aimed at cosplayers' makes it any less tacky.

---

Hey, if a female cosplayer (most of them, it seems) wants to dress like that, who are we to limit their freedom? No one if forcing them, please be aware of this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aegis

Show me how I have reduced a female to her physical attributes. I have advocated nothing more than gear not changing when transferred across genders solely for the purpose of being more revealing (Such as DRG AF or the Coatee set).
I never argued that being attracted to someone is in any way wrong (though I would worry about being attracted to a computer game character). That's a strawman. What I am arguing is that altering gear across genders for the sole purpose of being more revealing is objectification. That's pretty cut and dry.

---

You are the one who brought up the word "objectify" in the first place. I just stated that, of course, you can't put Zettai Ryouiki on a male char. I mean, you can, but it would be disgusting. On females it's cute. I still don't see what's wrong with that, it's the same reason in real life girls use skirts and high heels and makeup. Is that "objectifying" as well? Are girls "objectifying" themselves? Nietzsche kinda said this actually, but those were old times I guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aegis

Without this 'death of equality' your gf would not be able to vote and wouldn't be paid as much as her male colleagues.

---

Oh come on. I agree with you on this, but THAT kind of equality has been reached ages ago, now. Let's not compare vote rights to Miqo'te clothes, please.

A lot of people here seem to be missing the point.

The vast majority of us like sexy clothes - we like the OPTION of sexy clothes.

But it is frustrating when the SAME piece of gear looks one way on a guy but is "sexified" up when on girls.

THAT is the issue.

If I see a male character wearing a cool piece of unisex gear, it's disappointing if it looks different and suddenly my boobs are out when on me.

Sexy gear = good.
Gear that is not revealing on guys but suddenly revealing on girls, NOT good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seida

A lot of people here seem to be missing the point.

The vast majority of us like sexy clothes - we like the OPTION of sexy clothes.

But it is frustrating when the SAME piece of gear looks one way on a guy but is "sexified" up when on girls.

THAT is the issue.

If I see a male character wearing a cool piece of unisex gear, it's disappointing if it looks different and suddenly my boobs are out when on me.

Sexy gear = good.
Gear that is not revealing on guys but suddenly revealing on girls, NOT good.

---

Again, what would you suggest, then?

The only solution would be to design male and female versions of many gear sets, and this is hardly doable budget-wise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Again, what would you suggest, then?

The only solution would be to design male and female versions of many gear sets, and this is hardly doable budget-wise.

---

But that's exactly what they do right now. Full Plate Armour for males and Skimpy Bikinis for females. Both named "Dark Shadow Gear of Ultimate Protection".

What I would suggest: Any normal gear should be unisex. I don't mind skimpy stuff, but I'd rather refrain from using it (at least the skimpier stuff). So just add those things as vanity stuff. Problem solved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Again, what would you suggest, then?

The only solution would be to design male and female versions of many gear sets, and this is hardly doable budget-wise.

---

They already design two versions of every set. Only they make the female versions skimpy and show more skin, so not only is it's doable, it's been done. To death.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adormus

But that's exactly what they do right now. Full Plate Armour for males and Skimpy Bikinis for females. Both named "Dark Shadow Gear of Ultimate Protection".

What I would suggest: Any normal gear should be unisex. I don't mind skimpy stuff, but I'd rather refrain from using it (at least the skimpier stuff). So just add those things as vanity stuff. Problem solved.

---

That's not what I meant. What I meant is to design both versions of the same armor and let each version being equippable by both sexes. This would require A LOT of work.

Currently they design a set and adjust it automatically if it's being worn by a male or a female. Again, if you want unisex stuff look how the Noct Lorica turned out to be. No, thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

That's not what I meant. What I meant is to design both versions of the same armor and let each version being equippable by both sexes. This would require A LOT of work.

Currently they design a set and adjust it automatically if it's being worn by a male or a female. Again, if you want unisex stuff look how the Noct Lorica turned out to be. No, thanks.

---

Adjusting meshes is actually not really time consuming. You're basically saying that designing two different costumes is cheaper and faster than adjusting meshes for a different body type. Which isn't logical at all. Noct Lorica is a sole example and could be easily fixed by a different texture. I'd guess they were just lazy.

Anyway: I like practical armour, which is there to defend the wearer. Even if it was too expensive to design those for females as well (which is honestly a bs argument), they could at least make them equal in defense.