How is SMN overall dps?

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

Just curious. SMN used to be talked about as having the highest sustained DPS. At what point did it suddenly drop to being one of the lowest? I love the job and will continue to play this and NIN as my mains, but I'd like to know when SMN fell off the DPS mountain.

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2.1 when melee got buffed, and slightly less importantly, Thunder got taken away from SMN. MNK's been king of sustained ever since.

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

Just curious. SMN used to be talked about as having the highest sustained DPS. At what point did it suddenly drop to being one of the lowest? I love the job and will continue to play this and NIN as my mains, but I'd like to know when SMN fell off the DPS mountain.

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Smn is still the king of t9 for example.


Smn thrive when there are multiple targets, but not enough so that you want to aoe them down, and/or when you have regular breaks that will not only piss off the mnk that is used to be first, but will allow some free mana regen for you.

Examples: t1 (not that extensive of a fight even when released and 2 targets for most of the fight), t2 (constant breaks making mana a non issue), t4 (6 min max so non extensive, and plenty of multitargets, although blm thrived in that turn too), t5 (so many adds you can multidot, dragons at start, all the snakes, dreadnight), t6 (breaks due to bouquet, plants and bees to multidot), t7 (plenty of adds to multidot like crazy, and kiting was very efficiently done by a smn, and you had breaks due to mechanics, turning around, getting behind renauds, etc), t9 (LOTS of breaks making mana a non issue entirely, multidots during the whole p2 and half of p3).

You can see that most of the previous turns were great for smn. The exception would be t8, which is similar to FCOB fights. In FCOB, you have drawn out fights, longer than most previous turns, with close to zero breaks. Itemization also screwed smn pretty hard this time around as spellspeed is close to useless to them. t10 has some multidotting possibilities, that you have to use to maintain a good dps, but you will run into mana issues if you don't get enough ballad / don't watch yourself, and adds are only up for 25% of the fight. t11 is another no-break fight, and multidoting is poor, as you only have the add phase, and one add takes half damage from you, while another start regerating when yous tart hitting it and is thus better left alone for last. t12 possess plenty of adds, but they tend to die too quickly for you to take advantage of your dots, screwing you once again; also no break long fight, meaning managing your mp is a pain in the ass once again.

I think until 2.3 smn was still one of the most sought after job -- i know my static went out of their way to recruit one. Since FCOB, our smn actually changed back to blm due to the design of both gear and encounters, so it was all for nothing, kinda. It's a shame. They really got the short end of the stick this time around.

Thanks for the insight. Still trying to decide between maining SMN, BLM, or NIN. I have animus weapons for all 3.

http://www.twitch.tv/kionu/c/5608638 BLM wrecks the parse in this run.
Not my group, but my friends. Yeah, SMN not gonna get that high ever.Sorry.

Still finding other advantages to SMN.
T12 can do Blue fire and kill Bennus because of Contagion/Bane from Phoenix while the rest of the party stays on the boss, since this + Pet/Rouse will bypass the mechanic. Saves a ton of MP as well.
SMN Master Race

SMN was God Tier in T12 until they got rid of the Vulnerability Down on the blackfires.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Still finding other advantages to SMN.
T12 can do Blue fire and kill Bennus because of Contagion/Bane from Phoenix while the rest of the party stays on the boss, since this + Pet/Rouse will bypass the mechanic. Saves a ton of MP as well.
SMN Master Race

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SCH's better to do Blues. SMN is the best DPS to do it, though, you're right.

SMN DPS is still not accurately tracked it seems anyways. So just be careful when you are comparing numbers.

Dots are doing about 10% more than what is registered. Not including crits and not including Buffs

Doing a perfect rotation I'd say SMN is showing almost 20 DPS less than what it should, single target. (i111)
More if you are multidotting

How to check for yourself
- Auto Attack + Shadow Flare - see what gets registered
- Bio by itself - record damage - average out damage per second
- other dots (same)

It's a given that there will be some level of discrepancy due to all DoTs being estimated, but it seems reasonably accurate to me. Did a few trials of recording a video, then going through the video slowly, adding up all the damage numbers I see by hand (Well, with a calculator). Went all out each time, including all DoTs (Miasma II only with Contagion), auto attacks, Shadow Flare, Raging Strikes, X-Potion of Intelligence, Potent Poisoning Potion... Results are consistently within +/- 0.7% of what I'm getting adding it up manually.

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Originally Posted by ShinryuReishiki

It's a given that there will be some level of discrepancy due to all DoTs being estimated.

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On Bio alone that ticks on average @ 135 I'm getting 36 DPS.

Just be careful is all I'm saying, because a large % of SMN damage is DOTs and in some cases reads less damage than is being done.

My static is on thethers for T11. For the first phase which last about 3 to 4 minutes Our summoner is around 530 which is crazy lol. After adds is normalizes to 400. Also for adds our summoner uses Ifrit because the sphere add is resistance to magic attack and we still meet the dps check.

Are they using PPPs and pots paired with contagion ?

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Originally Posted by melflomil

My static is on thethers for T11. For the first phase which last about 3 to 4 minutes Our summoner is around 530 which is crazy lol. After adds is normalizes to 400. Also for adds our summoner uses Ifrit because the sphere add is resistance to magic attack and we still meet the dps check.

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What gear/ilvl does the SMN have?

MNK (i130 Weapon/ i129) - 580-600 ending phase 2, normalizes to around 550 at the end of the fight.

Nin ( i130 Weapon/ i124) - 580-600 ending Phase 2, Normalizes around 530-545 at the end of the fight.

BLM ( i135 Weapon/ i127) - 580-600 Ending Phase 2, Normalizes around 530 at the end of the fight.


Why is your SMN dropping so low? Especially with an add phase that is extremely beneficial for their dps.

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Originally Posted by Lavieh

What gear/ilvl does the SMN have?

MNK (i130 Weapon/ i129) - 580-600 ending phase 2, normalizes to around 550 at the end of the fight.

Nin ( i130 Weapon/ i124) - 580-600 ending Phase 2, Normalizes around 530-545 at the end of the fight.

BLM ( i135 Weapon/ i127) - 580-600 Ending Phase 2, Normalizes around 530 at the end of the fight.


Why is your SMN dropping so low? Especially with an add phase that is extremely beneficial for their dps.

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Because that's how Summoner's work. I'm assuming the Summoner used the optimal rotation which has a slow ramp up and high bursts then normal upkeep which naturally causes DPS to slowly drop off and plateaued.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Because that's how Summoner's work. I'm assuming the Summoner used the optimal rotation which has a slow ramp up and high bursts then normal upkeep which naturally causes DPS to slowly drop off and plateaued.

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I know how SMN's work XD, No idea where this "Slow Ramp" Ideal is coming from though (SMNs reach max potential at around 10-12 seconds) . Regardless dropping 130 DPS in a favorable add phase is hardly ideal. Either the SMN has his focus else where or he completely drops the ball.

I'm wondering if a highly geared SMN (i125+ with i130 or i135 book) would be able to show some solo Dummy numbers.

Looking for - Garuda opener, into SC Ifrit + Rouse, Spur, Enkindle on Ifrit

Then just maintain DPS using Dots, Shadow Flare, Energy Drain X 2 and Fester for each Aetherflow, pet buffs on CD and Raging Strikes.

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Why?

- Pets get a good boost from MD and INT - Especially Ifrit who has higher overall potency. For me right now it's a difference of Garuda 110 DPS and Ifrit 140 DPS @ i115
- The i120+ Mage gear has a high amount of Crit and Spell Speed - The enhanced pet action can proc off all of Ifrit's attacks including his AA giving ~5% X 2 every 3 seconds. 40 chances a minute to proc, can double proc to reset the timer. (lasts 8 seconds) reaches 2.25 GCD
- need to know how much extra damage Ifrit will do at a higher iLvl and then simulate it to nearly 100% up time of the Slash/Blunt debuff. (Can Ifrit reach almost 200 DPS sustained?)

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Spell Speed kind of sucks on SMN, and can make you go OOM a lot faster, but single target while using Ifrit (without the use of Contagion) it would be nice to know how much it can effect overall DPS, especially when you proc that extra 20% SS.
With my gear using that rotation I was able to sustain 420 DPS for 25 minutes. So with higher Crit/SS and a better weapon and gear to effect Ifrit's damage I'm curious how long and how much damage SMN can sustain, with SE's gear choice this patch.

Then compare to other classes of similarly high iLvl single target damage.

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Edited:

Comparing gear sets to get (A: High Crit/Spell Speed and B: DET/Crit Priority similar to i130 SMN BiS)

Gear Level i106 with i115 weapon (combination of gear to hit 590 Crit and 450 Spell Speed)

Garuda Opener + Ifrit
270 - SMN
125 - Ifrit
4 - Garuda
(399)

Just Garuda
275 - SMN
104 - Garuda
(379)

Low Crit/Spell Speed (~300 Det, 500 Crit, 371 Spell Speed)
Garuda Opener + Ifrit
270 - SMN
120 - Ifrit
2 - Garuda
(392)

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So single target using Ifrit, you can get away with itemizing Spell Speed and Crit, which almost equals the benefit of being able to Contagion dots with Garuda. Then you get the added damage of using Ifrit on top, as well as amazing MP conservation.

So, simulated SMN should be able to maintain close to 550 DPS solo, for single target with i131 gear, using Ifrit.
355 DPS for the SMN
195 DPS for Pet (5 DPS Garuda, 190 DPS for Ifrit)

Multi Dotting, in party, with Slash/Blunt buffs for Ifrit it should be close to 600 DPS sustained.

Disclaimer: I know this is not a SMN DPS suck rant thread.

I love how people complain saying SMN DPS sucks, due to primarily DoT's... but they don't take into the account of things like 3x Fester with even a decent rotation, that includes Contagion, Enkindle, Bio II, Miasma, Bio, & Shadowflare. The friggin festers alone I've crit'd 1800-2000 (and that's with less than 100 ilvl).

On topic: As for ST damage I personally would go with MNK vs SMN, unless you are looking for a ranged DPS, which then SMN would be rather fitting. I kind find BLM rather boring to play so I don't have much to offer regarding them...

Here is an honest question, Is it worth dropping all my Critical hit gear to upgrade to i120 stuff that has spell speed? I was planning on upgrading all my weathered geared to i110 but don't want to waste if i120 > i110.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Here is an honest question, Is it worth dropping all my Critical hit gear to upgrade to i120 stuff that has spell speed? I was planning on upgrading all my weathered geared to i110 but don't want to waste if i120 > i110.

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Hmmm. Good question. I'm not really THAT huge on number crunching, unless I trial/error it myself and I don't have the time, nor full i120 gear to test that just yet, due job-hoppis-itis. I do love my crit rate more than spell speed, especially on SMN, but I guess that's more a matter of preference...

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

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It depends. Some of gear parts have really stupid stats like earrings accuracy and spell speed. If you have already coil drops like hat/boots/neck those drop from early turns, it is really hard remove that accuracy already. I used myself ilvl 110 pvp earrings until I get my t12 earrings. T9 earrings can also be more better than 120 earrings in that case. And if you do not have relic and go with ilvl 130 poetic weapon, it is almost impossible remove all that accuracy from your gear. I would stick with 110 parts until you get better ones, especially right side parts. Left side parts are also pretty important upgrade cause you need 6100 - 6300 health so you do not need dumb so much your gear by using vitality parts in your rings/bracelets/earrings/neck slot.

In topic:I think SMN should do 450~ in the end of battle in every turn depends on gear and how much bard will sing foe.

Thanks for the advice. I'm hoping 2.5's CT expansion yields some more positive gear for us. I think right now I'll focus on getting pvp to 45 and get the i110 accessories to help round it out.

2.5 there is probably similiar method upgrade your items 130 like hunts was in 2.3 before

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Originally Posted by Sunako

2.5 there is probably similiar method upgrade your items 130 like hunts was in 2.3 before

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Well I'm hoping for some left side i120 that doesn't have spell speed to replace my helmet and boots.

I hope dev reduce the CD for Enkindle skill to 120s instead of 300s. 300s is too long for skill that not give a higher damage or the CD still 300s but raise the skill potency to 500+ since its do higher damage. Then please cancel casting time to Bio 2 and Miasma 1 since that the only main dps skill that SMN has and it can distinguish the SMN from BLM in term of gameplay utilities since BLM is already have higher dps & good AOE skill. Besides, dev can remove the raise and psyhick skill since its mostly useless in raid/dungeon coz SMN have no time to use it because SMN usually tend to DPS rather than do healing/raise thing like SCH/WHM do. This 2 slot can be replace by damage buff/skill for SMN.

I also like the idea, that summoning pet will get permanent party buff like summon garuda will get 5% increase int & spell speed/skill speed etc. I also like the rework idea that, if summoning pet like garuda, SMN will get access to wind type spell and this elemental spell can replace with raise and physick spell. Last but not least, I really hope dev will rework the appearances of the egi's. At least create a true primal appearances in size of the player/minion and not the crystallize one. This will make SMN look like a true Final Fantasy summoner.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Here is an honest question, Is it worth dropping all my Critical hit gear to upgrade to i120 stuff that has spell speed? I was planning on upgrading all my weathered geared to i110 but don't want to waste if i120 > i110.

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http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P2LE

here is what a BiS looks like for using Ifrit main, since Ifrit's damage far surpasses any benefit you'd get with Contagion (outside of Garuda's opener, i.e. PPP, INT, RS, DOTS + Contagion), even more so with a WAR/NIN and MNK in the party.

So those Poetic pieces are good ones to start with.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

snip.

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Augmented Boots and Augmented Earrings ? Seriously ?

Anyways, Here's the set I would use(Sacrifices a few INT points but adds noticeable Piety that helps make the mana issues less annoying)

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P2OL

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

Augmented Boots and Augmented Earrings ? Seriously ?

Anyways, Here's the set I would use(Sacrifices a few INT points but adds noticeable Piety that helps make the mana issues less annoying)

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P2OL

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The above build definitely makes better sense. Or I would go with the below build if you think that much piety isn't needed, and at the same time you get to max out melds on accuracy, crit, and det which is needed more.

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P2QP

Or if you can't afford crafted, go with these builds.

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/O3N6
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/O3NP
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/O3MO

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

Augmented Boots and Augmented Earrings ? Seriously ?

Anyways, Here's the set I would use(Sacrifices a few INT points but adds noticeable Piety that helps make the mana issues less annoying)

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P2OL

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Like I said, using Ifrit changes the stat weight of Spell Speed and you end up needing that accuracy to prioritize Crit.

simulating the effect of spell speed on SMN + the added bonus of Enhanced Pet + Fey Glow, I'd say the current SS weight is around

0.2 with accelerated gains with the more SS you stack, due to the bonuses.

Calculating the gains VS other stats for the SMN it's around 0.223, but due to the pet not scaling with SS and with it being around 1/4 SMN damage the combined weight comes out to around 0.16725

Add in the Enhanced Pet bonus using Ifrit of an average of 5.2% SS increase (@ 22% crit chance) + the average of 15% SS increase from fey glow and you get to around 0.2 for the SS weight.

I think it is not worth sacrifice 19 int because of some extra piety. Also that your build would be almost same if use lose 2 weapon damage and put full piety build your relic weapon.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

I think it is not worth sacrifice 19 int because of some extra piety. Also that your build would be almost same if use lose 2 weapon damage and put full piety build your relic weapon.

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It is definitely not worth sacrificing that much INT for pittance of Piety.

The only stat you should ever sacrifice INT for is DET and usually only when you can get a solid amount of it.

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OX6S

Most maxed INT builds would give you about 304 DET (meeting 535 Accuracy at least). This above build would sacrifice 20 INT to gain 69 DET, which if my testing is showing in-game, DET seems far stronger post 2.4 then before. I've been doing testing with a very solid end-game SMN friend of mine, and my 20 INT vs his 34 DET and were both pulling very, very similar numbers (exact rotation), with me slightly ahead, (even with me critting more often; about 20 more times on average, mainly Festers)

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

From my testing Ifrit has been better since i90, but due to the style of fights, Garuda + Contagion worked good enough.

Now Ifrits damage is just too good on these longer fights with no down time to not gear for him.

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I can agree that Ifrit does more damage in some places then Garuda. However, his survivalbility is lower on average as well as you spend more MP on recasting expensive DoTs /Sustain, which also increases the MP drain over a long fight. Fights where the SMN can get exclusive Ballads would probably come out more in favor of Ifrit.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

I can agree that Ifrit does more damage in some places then Garuda. However, his survivalbility is lower on average as well as you spend more MP on recasting expensive DoTs /Sustain, which also increases the MP drain over a long fight. Fights where the SMN can get exclusive Ballads would probably come out more in favor of Ifrit.

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I find that having to cast Bio more reduces the number of R2 I cast in order to weave CD's which tends to equal out to almost the same MP usage of recasting the dots.

The AI for Ifrit is pretty good in that it will stand at the flank of the mob it's attacking. But you're right that you may have to toss a Sustain on it.

I've been practicing getting comfortable with Ifrit and so far I can maintain 30 DPS higher than with Garuda over 10 minutes.
So I'm hoping in FCOB this week it will be an even greater increase since my group runs a Monk and War. (Hoping for a 45 dps increase)

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Since pets only benefit from MD, INT and Crit the value of DET using Ifrit is the lowest.

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You should do another test. Determination definitely affects pet damage. These ranges are from just letting Ifrit attack on Obey for 10 minutes.

80 MD, 597 Int, 295 Det (http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P331)
- Auto-Attack: 104-115 (156-173 Crit)
- Burning Strike: 199-220 (299-330 Crit)

80 MD, 597 Int, 424 Det (http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P32Z)
- Auto-Attack: 117-130 (176-195 Crit)
- Burning Strike: 211-234 (317-349 Crit)

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

I can agree that Ifrit does more damage in some places then Garuda. However, his survivalbility is lower on average as well as you spend more MP on recasting expensive DoTs /Sustain, which also increases the MP drain over a long fight. Fights where the SMN can get exclusive Ballads would probably come out more in favor of Ifrit.

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It really depends on the fight. For example, Ifrit has no survivability issues in T10-13; I've never needed Sustain unless I've made some sort of positioning error, like letting it in front of an add instead of behind. In fights where the boss has a knockback or circle AOE, it can be an issue, so I'd much prefer Garuda in such encounters.

I get 0 Ballad in T10-12 and I have no MP troubles. I do get it in T13 still, but that's more on the healers' needs than mine. You have to play slightly differently when using Ifrit, but the lower reliance on Ruin II actually makes the MP consumption very close despite the loss of Contagion.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

I've been practicing getting comfortable with Ifrit and so far I can maintain 30 DPS higher than with Garuda over 10 minutes.
So I'm hoping in FCOB this week it will be an even greater increase since my group runs a Monk and War. (Hoping for a 45 dps increase)

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That might be possible on a dummy, but in an actual encounter, the blunt/slashing debuffs won't make that big of an improvement. Especially on adds, there's a high chance that at least some of the attacks will happen before either debuff is up.

Yah and did you remember count that garuda damage is increase if bard sing foe but that does not affect ifrit.

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Originally Posted by ShinryuReishiki

You should do another test. Determination definitely affects pet damage. These ranges are from just letting Ifrit attack on Obey for 10 minutes.

80 MD, 597 Int, 295 Det (http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P331)
- Auto-Attack: 104-115 (156-173 Crit)
- Burning Strike: 199-220 (299-330 Crit)

80 MD, 597 Int, 424 Det (http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P32Z)
- Auto-Attack: 117-130 (176-195 Crit)
- Burning Strike: 211-234 (317-349 Crit)

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Thank you. Yeah, I ended up doing more testing over the weekend because I wanted to see if DET effected Ifrit's AA damage at all. After seeing that it increased Burning Strike damage as well as AA damage I went back and tested Garuda as well.

Values I ended up with.

DET increases Garuda's Damage twice as much as Ifrit's. i.e. 22 DET gave my Ifrit a 2 DPS gain, where as it gave Garuda a 4 DPS gain. (i120 weapon)
I used Tanking accessories with only DET to test, then just removed them to decrease my DET value, so this value may vary depending on the rest of a players gear.

I wish SE would stop changing everything without giving notice. Next thing you know we'll have Spell Speed effecting pets again without any updates.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Yah and did you remember count that garuda damage is increase if bard sing foe but that does not affect ifrit.

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This is true of course. But, over a 10 minute fight you would probably end up with Ifrit whacking away on a mob that has the slash/blunt debuffs for a longer duration than Garuda benefits from Foes. Not to mention that Ifrit's damage is higher than Garuda's even with Foes (other than Battle Voiced Foes of course)

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Using a baseline DPS of 350 SMN DPS at i131 *** Big estimate here, since the way MD + INT scales between each other + secondary stats. I suspect that baseline to be low, because I just used 292 DPS + 20% from i111


In comparing this gear set http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P2LE with the higher spell speed paired with Ifrit @ 22% Crit rate combined with the ability to proc the Enhanced Pet ability twice as much as Garuda for 20% increased spell speed (506->607) 2.34->2.24 GCD. Over 6 minutes it will average out to about 80 seconds at 2.24s or 22% of the time. Which translates to ~5 more attacks (not counting any benefit from Fey Glow) Since you can't cast dots faster than it takes for them to wear off, we can assume we only get 5 more ruins, or 400 more potency, so about 4.5 DPS @ i131
Combined with Fey Glow where you can also get an additional 5 Ruins, that's a total of 10 Ruins, or 800 Potency ~9 DPS

Using Garuda + Contagion with less spell speed and higher DET SMN DPS should be about 10 DPS higher than the baseline.

SMN Damage
(Using Ifrit)Estimated i131 SMN DPS @ i131 359 DPS (High Crit + Spell Speed)
(Using Ifrit) Estimated i131 SMN DPS @ i131 353 DPS (More DET + Less Spell Speed) Ifrit will do 4 DPS more though so it's around 357
(Using Garuda)Estimated i131 SMN DPS @ i131 360 DPS (More DET + Less Spell Speed)

Pet Damage
Estimated Ifrit damage @ i131 - 182 DPS Solo (197 DPS simulated with Slash/Blunt debuff @ 80%) - high crit/low det
Estimated Garuda damage @ i131 - 154 DPS Solo (159 DPS simulated with Foes Requiem (25% of the time) - high crit/det

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Ifrit Combined estimate - 541 DPS (556 Simulated with Slash/Blunt debuff)

Garuda Combined estimate - 514 DPS (+ Foes 519)

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This is half thrown together, just to get a look at a different approach to SMN + Ifrit and I will be using this data for further testing in FCOB to compare to other classes. (Bubble numbers are ok, but testing in action is better)

Feel free to critique, as that's how everyone learns more.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

DET increases Garuda's Damage twice as much as Ifrit's. i.e. 22 DET gave my Ifrit a 2 DPS gain, where as it gave Garuda a 4 DPS gain. (i120 weapon)

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I tried the same two gear sets with Garuda. Ifrit seems to benefit slightly more. Burning Strike and Wind Blade both did about 6-7% more damage with +129 Det, but Ifrit's auto attacks did about 12-13% more damage, which results in about 8% overall.

80 MD, 597 Int, 424 Det (http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P32Z)
- Auto-Attack: 117-130
- Burning Strike: 211-234
- Wind Blade: 302-333

80 MD, 597 Int, 295 Det (http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P331)
- Auto-Attack: 104-115
- Burning Strike: 199-220
- Wind Blade: 282-311

Not factoring in critical hits, Rouse, Spur, Enkindle, debuffs...

Ifrit (424): 115.33 DPS
Ifrit (295): 106.33 DPS
Difference: 9 (+8.46%)

Garuda (424): 105.83 DPS
Garuda (295): 98.83 DPS
Difference: 7 (+7.04%)

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Originally Posted by ShinryuReishiki

I tried the same two gear sets with Garuda. Ifrit seems to benefit slightly more. Burning Strike and Wind Blade both did about 6-7% more damage with +129 Det, but Ifrit's auto attacks did about 12-13% more damage, which results in about 8% overall.

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Wow, no idea why I ended up with the results I did. I let each set run for 20 minutes and I ran them twice each just to make sure, since it was such a difference between pets.

I didn't remove any crit data, but I'd think that would even out over 20 minutes.

I always thought Garuda was higher dps?
I rarely play smn anymore so my data probably is not up to date, haha

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Originally Posted by Maero

I always thought Garuda was higher dps?
I rarely play smn anymore so my data probably is not up to date, haha

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Garuda allows SMN to do more damage because of the extra Ruins you can cast instead of having to recast DoTs when you use Contagion, but it's raw DPS numbers are less than Ifrit.

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

Garuda allows SMN to do more damage because of the extra Ruins you can cast instead of having to recast DoTs when you use Contagion, but it's raw DPS numbers are less than Ifrit.

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Ifrit allows significantly higher DPS than Garuda if you have a MNK and WAR in your party, regardless of Contagion. It is quite an MP sink, however, and Ifrit can have travel time unlike Garuda (normally, sometimes she has to travel).

Given enough MP, meaning you get enough Ballad (lol) or the fight is short enough, Ifrit does do considerably more DPS.