Up Poetics Cap to 600.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

penta melded 110 chest is fantastic too. Or even just soldiery chest, but it lacks acc for ppl doing fcob. Soldiery chest has about.....18-20 dex worth of secondary stats? I'm not very informed on such things, but it has a TON of crit/det, which is in no way a fair trade off for a few dex and sksp/acc.

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poetics upgraded has 50 dex 33 acc and 47 skill speed (+vit) if i remember well , is a piece to close the acc gap for Fcob ,plus let u use crit food :)

Bard chest from poetics or T13 should have been crit det period :mad: but oh well at least other poetics pieces are good :D

500 cap rather than 450 or 600 seems more reasonable to me.

The way it sits now is that from zero, you can't even get 1 important piece (hands/feet/head) per week (lowest are 495 each), only an accessory. At least with a 500 cap we'd be able to get 1 important piece per week and still be locked to 2 weeks for a very important piece (body/legs).

The system works ok at 450 but 500 just seems a bit better if they are considering an adjustment.

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

It was increased from 300 to 450 already.

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OP exemplifies the problem with modern gamers. It was 300.. They cried for more. Give them more.. They cry for EVEN MORE.

Square ups it to 600 and in a few months people will be crying for it to be 750.

People are not taking into account that Mysterious Maps are tied to Expert DF. Doing 1 a day still mean 2.5 months before you have your 75 Alexandrite. That is 750 Poetic left on the table while pursuing your Novus weapon. That is almost enough for a body/leg piece. So unless you are telling me that Novus is not worth chasing people will do what is necessary to get Alexandrite. Why should they be forced to surrender Poetic in order to chase these weapons?

You are saying that it's not fair that people doin Alex daily experts are mistreated because they are over capping poetics to get their relic faster? 'Surrender poetics'? Wow.

Guess I shouldn't do my fcob static after I hit 450 since I'm surrendering poetics. Wouldn't want to clear it for no reason.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Except that the game's support for alt characters is probably worse than its support for alt jobs. Have fun mailing items you need to one of your friends to mail to your alt.

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Lets not forget all those super fun fates you get to do to level up the same classes multiple times for cross-class skills, just imagine all those times you have to get lnc to 34 for B4B, acn to 34 for E4E, thm to 26 for swiftcast

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

OP exemplifies the problem with modern gamers. It was 300.. They cried for more. Give them more.. They cry for EVEN MORE.

Square ups it to 600 and in a few months people will be crying for it to be 750.

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This...basically...

^meh I wasn't even aware that happened.

Still a moot point as 450 is under-tuned imo because it doesn't support multi-job very well as by the time you gear out your main, the life-cycle of the current end-game raid is already about half over.

That change that I didn't know about affects by argument: zilch.

So he can call me crying all he wants, the game was pitched around multi-Job benefit.

Just seems silly you have to reach for alternatives or subpar variants (in some cases) to equip an alternate Job for end-game progression.

This game isn't alt-friendly enough for that to be a fair solution. As someone mentioned, you have to regrind all the sub-Jobs too for cross-class, unlock everything over, beat t5, beat t9, mailing to alts is non-existent, & there are no account-bound features or equips.

I concur. It's about the principle of supporting "multiple Jobs, one character" which this game was advertised around.

It's not enough that we can get outdated gear on an alternate Job.

It doesn't help either that the weekly loot lockout is only conducive to gearing a main until as you mention, the life-cycle of the current end-game is already halfway over.

I think people are being overly dramatic in the sense that 150 more in a week will hardly impact things.

It's irrelevant that they've already raised it as it wasn't enough to support their marketed system.

are you guys really going to spend it on alts?

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Originally Posted by Toodles

I concur. It's about the principle of supporting "multiple Jobs, one character" which this game was advertised around.

It's not enough that we can get outdated gear on an alternate Job.

It doesn't help either that the weekly loot lockout is only conducive to gearing a main until as you mention, the life-cycle of the current end-game is already halfway over.

I think people are being overly dramatic in the sense that 150 more in a week will hardly impact things.

It's irrelevant that they've already raised it as it wasn't enough to support their marketed system.

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Yes because full 110 is horribly geared. I see exactly what you mean.

Next people will be expecting full 130 on every class inside of a month of the patch or riot.


And half way over? Lol it hasn't even been a month.

It is really unbelievable what gaming has turned into. They literally throw gear 1 tier behind current at you and people still find something to complain about.

God forbid they make you actually progress instead of letting you skip right to the end.

The thing is, you can play every job adequately. Sold/Scob gear is unlimited. You can do anything on any job in this game with 110 gear. They drew a line foe ONE event in this game. The current coil tier. That is the one and only thing in this game you can't do on every job and that is by design. It is paced intentionally so you can't spam up tome gear to break down the relevant endgame raid so easily.

Being unable to do the top of the top 3 raid fights (1st one is always designed clear able with last patches gear) on every job is not destroying the multiple job system. 99% of the game you are completely free. 3 fights designed as the hardest thing in the game you arent. Cutting edge content requires specialization., and with steep.vertical progression you can rotate your specialization every 3 months. I was a war main a month ago. Now I'm a 113 nin main on a class that didn't exist a month ago. This game is hugely flexible.

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Originally Posted by Toodles

the life-cycle of the current end-game is already halfway over.

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Lol, the life cycle of end game is 6 months and the most recent cycle just started less than one month ago. You have no idea what you're talking about.

I don't want it to be higher than 450. It already makes it difficult enough to cap if I have a busy week. Since I raid I'm obligated to cap out each week so that I don't fall behind and hinder the group. More points would make it that much harder to play this game and keep up. Right now I can do the expert roulette on most days of the week and I'm good. With any increase in points I'd be forced to do it every day and then some. I'm entirely against this idea.

I support the idea to increase poetic cap to 600, I've always found that 450 isn't quite enough some weeks.

At 600 poetic per week you're still looking at approximately 9 weeks to gear up 1 job completely (excluding the weapon and fcob gear) which means that assuming there is a 6 month turnaround on new gear every time, it would still be impossible to gear up more than 3 jobs completely before new gear is released.

That seems far within reason for a game that boasts the ability to play multiple jobs on a single character.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Lol, the life cycle of end game is 6 months and the most recent cycle just started less than one month ago. You have no idea what you're talking about.

I don't want it to be higher than 450. It already makes it difficult enough to cap if I have a busy week. Since I raid I'm obligated to cap out each week so that I don't fall behind and hinder the group. More points would make it that much harder to play this game and keep up. Right now I can do the expert roulette on most days of the week and I'm good. With any increase in points I'd be forced to do it every day and then some. I'm entirely against this idea.

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I don't quite understand why you feel it would become your obligation to cap out every week. Would your raid group really kick you if it still took 12 weeks to gear up instead of 9? I find that highly unlikely unless your raid group is full of jerks, and if you're raiding you have a possibility of getting drops as well which would further decrease the amount of time it takes to gear up whatever main you use for raiding.

An increased cap doesn't hinder anybodies ability to gear up, it only increases it and gives them the option to play more than one or two jobs effectively if they actually want to. It is not and never will be a requirement.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

Yes because full 110 is horribly geared. I see exactly what you mean.

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Don't be rude & try to make points out of my post that just aren't there.

My whole point (which was obvious) is its the principle of the matter, no where did I mention full i110 being bad.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Lol, the life cycle of end game is 6 months and the most recent cycle just started less than one month ago. You have no idea what you're talking about.

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Don't be rude & ignore the context, cutting out half of that sentence... if you'd paid attention contextually you would understand I'm referencing about the above-posters point.

Way to try to spin my words & publicly shame me, that's cool.

The fact remains that you can freely play any job you want with 110 gear, 115 weapon, and 115 accs (1 for each primal during the current phase. Currently just shiva) with unrestricted farming on anything in the game except 3 fights (which was still done with extreme skill). It IS a multi job game. 3 fights you have to specialize or just be rediculous awesome. Don't change the while system because you can't go to t13 on your 5th job 2 weeks into the patch.

There's nothing to fix.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

The fact remains that you can freely play any job you want with 110 gear, 115 weapon, and 115 accs (1 for each primal during the current phase. Currently just shiva) with unrestricted farming on anything in the game except 3 fights (which was still done with extreme skill). It IS a multi job game. 3 fights you have to specialize or just be rediculous awesome. Don't change the while system because you can't go to t13 on your 5th job 2 weeks into the patch.

There's nothing to fix.

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You clearly didn't even do the math, a change to 600 would only allow you to gear up 3 jobs in 6 months bud, not even close to 5 jobs in 2 weeks. Nobody is asking for a change to the whole system, just a little more leeway to enjoy the game a little more. Please read the thread, or if you already have then read it again, because you clearly missed the entire point.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

I support the idea to increase poetic cap to 600, I've always found that 450 isn't quite enough some weeks.

At 600 poetic per week you're still looking at approximately 9 weeks to gear up 1 job completely (excluding the weapon and fcob gear) which means that assuming there is a 6 month turnaround on new gear every time, it would still be impossible to gear up more than 3 jobs completely before new gear is released.

That seems far within reason for a game that boasts the ability to play multiple jobs on a single character.

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And you don't need ilvl 120 to play every job on a single character.

The ONLY reason you need over 110 for anything is final coil. In which case you don't need to fully poetic your class because you will get some slots from FCoB.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

I don't quite understand why you feel it would become your obligation to cap out every week. Would your raid group really kick you if it still took 12 weeks to gear up instead of 9? I find that highly unlikely unless your raid group is full of jerks, and if you're raiding you have a possibility of getting drops as well which would further decrease the amount of time it takes to gear up whatever main you use for raiding.

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It has nothing to do with what they do or don't expect. If I join a raid group I've made a commitment to bring my all X times a week until we disband. My all includes every single poetic point I can get so that I always have the most up to date gear I can get. While it may seem entirely self imposed I can assure you that if they continue to cap each week and their gear starts distancing itself from my gear due to my failure at capping then they will say something and express disappointment. If it gets extreme enough they would get rid of me. All because I made a commitment to them to bring my all. Progression is very serious to some groups and if I'm not acting serious then I wouldn't appear to be a good fit for the group. That's how some end game groups are and it has nothing to do with them being jerks or being hateful. We all joined the 8 man team with a combined goal that we all agreed to too work hard, play hard, and to bring our all. It would be a huge disservice on my part if I failed to honor that commitment and an insult to my teammates who do put the time in each week. I would honestly expect that if I'm so busy I can't cap and keep up that they should replace me with someone who is able to do it. Right now I'm able to raid while casually keeping my points up on off days. If this change happened it would make it tougher to justify my position to even myself in a raid group.

It would be a mistake to assume I'm the only person who would feel this way.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

And you don't need ilvl 120 to play every job on a single character.

The ONLY reason you need over 110 for anything is final coil. In which case you don't need to fully poetic your class because you will get some slots from FCoB.

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I agree with that but it's sure nice to gear up with the new gear that just came out rather than continue using the outdated gear from 6 months ago, I'm not saying that it's required, I'm just saying it would be a nice change. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm asking for a QoL change here, not a change that is needed for the game to continue working.

It also takes a lot less effort to gear up a job in i110 as well so after a couple months when alts are geared up, people will start logging out for the week after they cap their poetics. Obviously, that's not the case for everybody, but I've actually had friend quit the game in the past because they had nothing to do after capping their soldiery.

I think people would be a lot more likely to login and play if they had an opportunity to spend the whole week working on relevant gear and I've yet to see anybody come up with a valid argument against it other than "the change is not needed".

How dare arcanists gear up both smn and sch at the same time.

Let's just uncap poetics, all the same right? i120 for every class!

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

I've yet to see anybody come up with a valid argument against it other than "the change is not needed".

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I do believe mine was valid, but I guess this means you don't care about my reason. Over the last year I've heard dozens of conversations from people on sunday and monday from people trying to cap so that they don't fall behind. These are even people who don't raid. Putting a cap on it for many people is the same as saying "you need to do at least this much this week."

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

You clearly didn't even do the math, a change to 600 would only allow you to gear up 3 jobs in 6 months bud, not even close to 5 jobs in 2 weeks. Nobody is asking for a change to the whole system, just a little more leeway to enjoy the game a little more. Please read the thread, or if you already have then read it again, because you clearly missed the entire point.

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Its called exaggeration. The math doesn't make sense to the complaint anyway. The complaint is that we can't play multiple jobs so up the tomes. As you just pointed out that doesn't even fix the perceived problem. So I responded to the complaint that you can't play all jobs. I was pointing out that you can in all but 3 fights. The math just points out how silly this all is.

"I can't play all the jobs"
"You can in all but 3 fights"
"600 only let's you gear 3 max"
"So how would this solve the initial problem again? It doesnt"

The solution doesn't even fix the perceived problem. Perhaps I'm not the only one that needs to reread the thread. I'm just pointing out that the perceived problem isn't even a problem. (Hence my previous exaggeration). The fact that the proposed solution doesn't fix it, even if it was an issue, just puts the absurd icing on the cake.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

I do believe mine was valid, but I guess this means you don't care about my reason.

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First of all, I typed that before you edited the post that previously said "Placeholder" so drop the defensive balony, I'm not here to attack you despite what you may want to believe.

I understand what you're saying about your feelings, I just feel that if you getting 450 tomes a week is good enough now that it will stay good enough later, at worst you'd be behind on a couple accessories and that is it. I think your raid group will understand when you tell them that due to real life circumstances, you were unable to get an extra 150 tomes every single week.

At the end of the day, it would only help your raid group because I'm sure there would be slow weeks where your schedule allows you to get those extra tomes.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

First of all, I typed that before you edited the post that previously said "Placeholder" so drop the defensive balony, I'm not here to attack you despite what you may want to believe.

I understand what you're saying about your feelings, I just feel that if you getting 450 tomes a week is good enough now that it will stay good enough later, at worst you'd be behind on a couple accessories and that is it.

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Dude I didn't see the edit times since I don't normally feel like I need to confirm that info. So as far as I saw you ignored my reason. I never even acted like you attacked me. I acted like you ignored me. It was hardly a defensive response nor did I act like you attacked me. Simmer down man. Besides I edit my post in a text file, make the placeholder post, and instantly edit the post from the text file. You literally saw the maybe 10 seconds where it actually said placeholder.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

I just feel that if you getting 450 tomes a week is good enough now that it will stay good enough later, at worst you'd be behind on a couple accessories and that is it. I think your raid group will understand when you tell them that due to real life circumstances, you were unable to get an extra 150 tomes every single week.

At the end of the day, it would only help your raid group because I'm sure there would be slow weeks where your schedule allows you to get those extra tomes.

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I think you're making a lot of assumptions about what raid groups do and don't expect from people. It also feels like you didn't really read my entire reasoning if you really think that excuse would fly. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you think is enough points in a week. What matters is that character screen shows an uncapped amount at the end of the week and the other 7 people didn't. It wasn't even about their opinion so much as it was self imposed as I even admitted. You're defense literally failed it acknowledge that core part of my point. I feel bad because I didn't cap because I feel obligated to cap because I made a commitment. If you think I'm the only person who thinks this way then you are sorely mistaken.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

I've yet to see anybody come up with a valid argument against it other than "the change is not needed".

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then read the posts more carefully then what you hope it means in your head.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Its called exaggeration. The math doesn't make sense to the complaint anyway.

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How does the math not make sense in regards to the complaint? As far as I'm concerned the complaint is that the cap is a little too low to gear out multiple jobs in Poetics Gear in the 6 month time period we get before new gear comes out. My argument does not ever say you cannot get older gear for your jobs, in fact I've gone out of my way to agree that it is a feasible option but in a couple months when people have full i110 on their alts, what are they supposed to do after capping poetics? Twiddle their thumbs?

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Dude I didn't see the edit times since I don't normally feel like I need to confirm that info. So as far as I saw you ignored my reason. I never even acted like you attacked me. I acted like you ignored me. It was hardly a defensive response nor did I act like you attacked me. Simmer down man. Besides I edit my post in a text file, make the placeholder post, and instantly edit the post from the text file. You literally saw the maybe 10 seconds where it actually said placeholder.

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I think we can both agree that there is no reason to argue over this misunderstanding on both sides. I seriously only saw the post saying placeholder, you seriously thought I had read your post, simple as that.

I see your points clearly, I read your post entirely, some of them I agree with and some of them I don't but it seems like a matter of opinion rather than debate at this point. Personally it doesn't give me anxiety to see uncapped tomes but I can understand that it might for some people.

The complaint was "to support multi job play" which this game does for the entirety of the game except 3 specific encounters at any given time. This game already supports multi job play to an extreme level. That is why I say it's a perceived problem. The game DOES support multi job play, but everyone dismisses it as 'old irrelivant gear' and brushes that fact under the rug as ammo for getting top tier gear faster. By that logic we should add a 3rd chest in coil to 'promote multi job play'.

SE has a specifically designed pacing for top tier content because they chose an extreme vertical progression model. This means the need to push out brand new content every update because the previous set rendered obsolete. They must find a way to draw out this content because players can burn content faster than they can program it. That is why there are tome and coil and tower lockouts. They intentionally paced it this way. Therefore to maintain their pacing with their promise of multi jobs we got this compromise. Top 3 fights need specialization to slow you down. Other 99% is a free for all.

It's not broken and thus doesn't need fixing. This is very intentional and methodical.

And I say the math doesn't help because After 6 months you can gear 0.6 more jobs. 1.75 jobs currently with 450 to 2.35 assuming no overlap. Gearing almost 2 jobs to 2 jobs and 1 piece of change doesn't actually tangibly do anything to promote more job use in coil. All it does is temporarily satiate "I want more shinies" until they ask for more. Just like the 300 to 450 bump and here we are again asking for more. This is just a veil for I want more stuff faster. I say this because the solution doesn't address the problem.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

I think we can both agree that there is no reason to argue over this misunderstanding on both sides. I seriously only saw the post saying placeholder, you seriously thought I had read your post, simple as that.

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Completely agreed. If square would get over this silly 1000 word limit this would never have happened, but that's a whole different can-o-worms.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

Personally it doesn't give me anxiety to see uncapped tomes but I can understand that it might for some people.

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I can live with that. Honestly half the challenge on these forums is getting people to even see the other point of view even if they don't agree with it. Thanks for trying to understand the other point of view even when you don't share it.

You have 3, maybe 4 months to gear up your main class and secondary. Is that not enough?
Then, there might be another ST that drops i110/i120 gear.
And soon, the Carbonwire ( or something, the Sands and Oil of 2.4) will drop from there. you seriously are impatient eh?

The high tier tomes set up this way in order to maintain viability of previous endgame gear during each 2 patch cycle. Active players are expected to fully gear up a single class over a period of 3 months and then gear up secondary classes with lower tome and CT/ST/PvP gear.

I was actually surprised at 2.2 that the rate of soldiery wasn't initially 300 like myth was from 2.0 to 2.1. I honestly have trouble capping some weeks because of work and what not. That said, I would be in favor of some sort of allotment system based on role. It probably wouldn't really change much for me personally, maybe I'd get some ranged DPS tomes as well as melee, but that's it at the moment. I'm not sure how they could retrofit the current system to work that way, and really it would be awkward to do it at this time. Poetics are certainly the last set of tomes before the expansion, but it would be nice if they played up the multiple roles per character bit in Heavensward some more, kind of like they're doing with crafting / gathering and the artisan's / forager's pieces (not that very many people can afford those).

600 would break game balance!

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Originally Posted by BigPapaSmurf

Sure we'll gear our mains a lil faster but it'll support multi-job play which this game was originally intended to be designed around.
Sure you can gear your alts with Soldiery but it isn't the same & limits our capability to participate effectively in FCOB on a secondary.

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Considering "Final Coil - Turn 4" was beaten the very first week of it's release (never mind these people are gods at what they do) shows that 450 Poetics/week actually IS enough to be competitive in final coil. The actual limitations you speak of must lie elsewhere than the Poetic weekly cap.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Its almost as if people actually believe the only loot in the game is from Tomes.

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Well maybe if Square offered equal alternatives for gear that is not tome based or coil based, we wouldn't be in this position.

Wow, from the looks of this thread, either a huge number of people must be doing FCoB, or a bunch of new content got added overnight that you can barely get by at ilv 110.

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Originally Posted by HaelseMikiro

Considering "Final Coil - Turn 4" was beaten the very first week of it's release (never mind these people are gods at what they do) shows that 450 Poetics/week actually IS enough to be competitive in final coil. The actual limitations you speak of must lie elsewhere than the Poetic weekly cap.

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Yeah, the top 1% in the world. Okay ;)

And I haven't spoken about limitations by gear.

Please read more carefully, look for context.