Cash Shop Announcements from EU Stream

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Originally Posted by Lycieus

Of all the people opposed to the idea, I haven't seen anyone express worry about it being pay-to-win.

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Because how do you win FFXIV?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

This thread was last posted in six years ago. How did you even find it?

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Ah, my bad, I followed a link on the other (recent) forum thread that took me to this one, I didn’t realise that this one was 6 years ago, I didn’t mean to necro an old thread :(

Mmm yes, here's a thread that has aged like a fine wine.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Because how do you win FFXIV?

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For many, by looking good.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Ah, my bad, I followed a link on the other (recent) forum thread that took me to this one, I didn’t realise that this one was 6 years ago, I didn’t mean to necro an old thread :(

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I mean, if it still has points to discuss there's no harm in it.

Apparently buying more retainers is P2W to some people. Because you can send them out on ventures and they make Gil for you. That's the only P2W thing iv'e read about.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Apparently buying more retainers is P2W to some people. Because you can send them out on ventures and they make Gil for you. That's the only P2W thing iv'e read about.

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The increased inventory may also be a factor in things

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

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Seriously why did you necro a 5 year old thread....there is enough threads about the cash shop that.

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Originally Posted by TheGrimace

Mmm yes, here's a thread that has aged like a fine wine.

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Same with interview where Yoshi said they wont force people to sub for keeping their houses.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Apparently buying more retainers is P2W to some people. Because you can send them out on ventures and they make Gil for you. That's the only P2W thing iv'e read about.

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As someone who has purchased the maximum number of retainers...they absolutely do provide an advantage.

For starters, the expanded inventory is wonderful. Though more importantly, ventures are brilliant. I don't know how many people bother to level and gear their retainers in order to send them out on missions but you can make a fortune through doing that. Last week they brought me back 4 jet black dyes and 2 pure white dyes - which sell for a lot.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

As someone who has purchased the maximum number of retainers...they absolutely do provide an advantage.

For starters, the expanded inventory is wonderful. Though more importantly, ventures are brilliant. I don't know how many people bother to level and gear their retainers in order to send them out on missions but you can make a fortune through doing that. Last week they brought me back 4 jet black dyes and 2 pure white dyes - which sell for a lot.

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Honestly I really wouldn't count quick ventures since they are all RNG. The last time my retainer brought me anything of value from a quick venture was like at least a month ago. Even the people I know who have 5 or 6 retainers say it's mostly just crap housing items (ie cheap ass walls and roofs), fish, or random dungeon gear that can't be sold on the MB anyway.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

As someone who has purchased the maximum number of retainers...they absolutely do provide an advantage.

For starters, the expanded inventory is wonderful. Though more importantly, ventures are brilliant. I don't know how many people bother to level and gear their retainers in order to send them out on missions but you can make a fortune through doing that. Last week they brought me back 4 jet black dyes and 2 pure white dyes - which sell for a lot.

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I also have maxed retainers. They do provide a lot of storage and the ventures are "Sometimes" nice. However it's not P2W. Take for example Blade and Soul, that's P2W. Just because you get some gil from ventures by selling items doesn't = P2W. You can easily get good endgame gear by farming tomes and there is no enchanting system other then the materia system which is easy to obtain/use. Also you can literally farm everything faster yourself instead of the retainers // Selling ishgardian restoration materials can net a lot more than those dyes. So in the end there really is nothing that you would work toward to be considered "P2W" or if you prefer Blade and Souls equipment upgrade/enchant system which would cost a fortune and countless farming unless you "Buy" your way through it which would then be considered "P2W".

I mean, just because it isn't the worst thing ever doesn't mean it's not bad. :T

FFXIV isn't nearly as obnoxious as certain other MMO's in regards to paid advantages, though they still exist. The saddlebag expansion is another example. I don't think they're necessarily terrible features, though I don't see the point in downplaying them when they do provide a fairly decent advantage over players who opt not to invest. Ishgard restoration added a whole bunch of new items to the game through Diadem - and if people wanted to be competitive and score high on the ranking system then extra inventory space was a worthy investment. To say nothing of the fact that the materials themselves sold for a fairly decent price in some cases, so having extra retainers allowed for more to be sold and stored.

Retainers also give you more slots to sell things on the Marketboard, which could let you get gil quicker.
It also use to help you easy up the limit of gil you could carry when you transferred servers but they increase the amount of gil you could carry to 999,999,999 gil since then...

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Originally Posted by Roda

I mean, just because it isn't the worst thing ever doesn't mean it's not bad. :T

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This is how I feel about most things in XIV, just because it isn't the worst/is functioning, doesn't mean it's not bad. >w>

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Apparently buying more retainers is P2W to some people. Because you can send them out on ventures and they make Gil for you. That's the only P2W thing iv'e read about.

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That would be considered pay to win IF there was something to win. For example if Square ever decided to let people buy subscription time with Gil like some other MMOs. But, that isn't the case right now so I don't think anyone can say paying for retainers is pay to win.

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

That would be considered pay to win IF there was something to win. For example if Square ever decided to let people buy subscription time with Gil like some other MMOs. But, that isn't the case right now so I don't think anyone can say paying for retainers is pay to win.

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Paying to be the first or best at something is not the only result of a negative influence of in-game purchases. Paying to make an aspect of the game less tedious / improve UX, is also a big way in-game purchases can cause the game to be worse for those not forking over extra cash, since it incentivises the devs to make the standard non-EXTRA-paying experience more frustrating so that we'll want to get more retainers so that we can gather materials faster for our raid food/tinctures/crafted gear or even just store all the glamour we've earned (or bought) that we can't fit in our still-too-small glamour dresser, or get a special mount that ignores riding licenses and lets us move at max speed all the time without having to grind the licences.

HAHAHAHAH people actually think this game is P2W??? Seriously???

Good lord, go check out Star Trek Online if you want to see P2W. I can go into their cash shop right now and buy a tier 6 ship and steamroll literally everyone. Buy some OP bridge officers and duty officers that will allow me to faceroll the content. Or how about Blade & Soul? DC Universe Online? And that’s just off the top of my head. Those are all games where you can buy items in the cash shop that give you distinct advantages.

I understand those are all free to play games, but that’s my point. FFXIV requires a sub, so the items they sell are just vanity items. Like glamours. The gear doesn’t have any actual stats or anything. It’s actually similar to SWTOR in that regard.

Some of you need to get out and play other MMOs. I honestly think for many of you this is the only MMO you’ve ever played.

And it shows.

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Originally Posted by Lium

HAHAHAHAH people actually think this game is P2W??? Seriously???

Good lord, go check out Star Trek Online if you want to see P2W. I can go into their cash shop right now and buy a tier 6 ship and steamroll literally everyone. Buy some OP bridge officers and duty officers that will allow me to faceroll the content. Or how about Blade & Soul? DC Universe Online? And that’s just off the top of my head. Those are all games where you can buy items in the cash shop that give you distinct advantages.

I understand those are all free to play games, but that’s my point. FFXIV requires a sub, so the items they sell are just vanity items. Like glamours. The gear doesn’t have any actual stats or anything. It’s actually similar to SWTOR in that regard.

Some of you need to get out and play other MMOs. I honestly think for many of you this is the only MMO you’ve ever played.

And it shows.

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You can't win anything in XIV, maybe some basic advantages like having more retainers and buying unique costumes and mount from mog.
Gear in this game is easibly obtainable, to see 95% of the content you dont need to grind or clear hard content. There is literally nothing to sell to make it P2W even if they wanted.

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Originally Posted by Vrankyl

Honestly I really wouldn't count quick ventures since they are all RNG. The last time my retainer brought me anything of value from a quick venture was like at least a month ago. Even the people I know who have 5 or 6 retainers say it's mostly just crap housing items (ie cheap ass walls and roofs), fish, or random dungeon gear that can't be sold on the MB anyway.

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Then they aren't doing it right. If your retainers aren't making you at least a million gil from the stuff they bring which goes with the expanded MB space. They aren't putting any effort into selling. Not to mention that you can desynth everything and sell those mats. Also you can not use more ventures then what retainers bring back in gear. Let also not forget that fisher retainers every few patches that get a rare minion that at least I can always get a couple to sell when they are between the 5-1 million mark. Housing desynths into a lot of mats as well can be as high as 9 of something.

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

- They will not be selling dungeons, re-iterating "No Pay to Win"

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Please tell me there isn't somebody who legit believed this would ever be a thing...

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

Seriously why did you necro a 5 year old thread....there is enough threads about the cash shop that.

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I honestly didn’t realise that this particular thread was an old one. There was two recent cash shop threads so I thought the link was to the other recent one, so I dun goofed. :(
I guess it says something about how common and unchanging these threads are.

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

Seriously why did you necro a 5 year old thread....there is enough threads about the cash shop that.

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Oh noooo whatever will you do, having to ignore one more thread on the OF! This sets you back so much!!!

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Please tell me there isn't somebody who legit believed this would ever be a thing...

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Some other MMOs instead of expansion they sell dungeons individually. Then of course new dungeons also have new drops that are better then the old one. It feels less pay to win then some stuff, but it does separate players who have more income then others.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Please tell me there isn't somebody who legit believed this would ever be a thing...

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The same people who constantly "slippery slope" argument every new change believed this was exactly where the cash shop was going :

"well if they're selling cosmetics now, what is stopping them from selling OTHER content".

Hence why the slippery slope is a bad argument.

there are more minions that are exclusive as bonus code for some physical merch than mogstation exclusive ones. So shouldn't that make the SE store pay 2 win too?
really makes you thonk...

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

The same people who constantly "slippery slope" argument every new change believed this was exactly where the cash shop was going :

"well if they're selling cosmetics now, what is stopping them from selling OTHER content".

Hence why the slippery slope is a bad argument.

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Not really. I think most realize that putting [edit] other [/edit] content or pay 2 win stuff behind a Cash Shop in a subscription MMO is a death sentence. The slippery slope argument is that they stale the base game cosmetics to drive Cash Shop sales. Not saying that's the case right now and it may be a fallacy or whatever but some just don't want this to be a possibility out of principle.

edit: with "content" I meant stuff like instances, not what's currently in the Cash Shop

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Originally Posted by swiss_Momo

there are more minions that are exclusive as bonus code for some physical merch than mogstation exclusive ones. So shouldn't that make the SE store pay 2 win too?
really makes you thonk...

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Like the Tsukuyomi minion that I thought was craftable, or the Shiva emote from ages ago. :(

The one thing I wouldn't mind actually being in the cash shop are replica armors for past savage tiers. Savage content is so time consuming as is that there's not really time to go back and get older armor unless it's ancient, like ARR coil stuff or Alexandrian.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Not really. I think most realize that putting content or pay 2 win stuff behind a Cash Shop in a subscription MMO is a death sentence. The slippery slope argument is that they stale the base game cosmetics to drive Cash Shop sales. Not saying that's the case right now and it may be a fallacy or whatever but some just don't want this to be a possibility out of principle.

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6 Years, along with becoming THE contender to the king of MMO's... wouldn't really call that a death sentence.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

6 Years, along with becoming THE contender to the king of MMO's... wouldn't really call that a death sentence.

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You don't think there will be massive exodus if FFXIV started presenting obvious pay 2 win items in their Cash Shop? Like you see in Free to play MMOs? That's what I meant, not that the game is already dead because of the cosmetics Cash Shop we have right now.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

You don't think there will be massive exodus if FFXIV started presenting obvious pay 2 win items in their Cash Shop? Like you see in Free to play MMOs? That's what I meant, not that the game is already dead because of the cosmetics Cash Shop we have right now.

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People claim retainers are pay 2 win. But I understand what you mean now.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

6 Years, along with becoming THE contender to the king of MMO's... wouldn't really call that a death sentence.

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If we continue like this, our contender will be Second Life.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Not really. I think most realize that putting content or pay 2 win stuff behind a Cash Shop in a subscription MMO is a death sentence. The slippery slope argument is that they stale the base game cosmetics to drive Cash Shop sales. Not saying that's the case right now and it may be a fallacy or whatever but some just don't want this to be a possibility out of principle.

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Im curious.
If for every 1 new item that got sold through the Cash Shop funded the addition of 2 new items for the game through gameplay, would you still call it a death sentence?

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

If we continue like this, our contender will be Second Life.

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Because we will have a large cosmetic pool to buy things from?

I could only dream of shop full of player generated cosmetics... So many creative and talented people out there.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Im curious.
If for every 1 new item that got sold through the Cash Shop funded the addition of 2 new items for the game through gameplay, would you still call it a death sentence?

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Game has been dying for the last 6 years. It's a standard forum prediction. Nothing new here. Log in queues speak for themselves when you get them on a daily basis.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Im curious.
If for every 1 new item that got sold through the Cash Shop funded the addition of 2 new items for the game through gameplay, would you still call it a death sentence?

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If it's a pay to win item that gives a clear advantage ingame? Like if they sold means to get better gear in Cash Shop, no way people will put up with that in a subscription game even if it could potentially lead to more in game content (which it won't, because of the exodus).

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Game has been dying for the last 6 years. It's a standard forum prediction. Nothing new here. Log in queues speak for themselves when you get them on a daily basis.

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Nobody is saying that the game is dying

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Because we will have a large cosmetic pool to buy things from?

I could only dream of shop full of player generated cosmetics... So many creative and talented people out there.

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Because WoW focuses on gameplay mechanics, raids and dungeons while XIV shifting to casual social stuff, reducing difficulty of most things.

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

Because WoW focuses on gameplay mechanics, raids and dungeons while XIV shifting to casual social stuff, reducing difficulty of most things.

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Not sure if serious. Do you know what the #1 complaint is on the WoW forums? Or at least was when I stopped playing back in Legion? The game was too easy and catered to casuals. That's been the hot-button debate over there for years.

Also, WoW is a raid focused game with a paper thin contrived plot, which works for them because nobody plays WoW for the story. FFXIV meanwhile, focuses on great storytelling, interesting characters, adherence to established lore, with some dungeons and raids thrown in for good measure, each with savage and extreme modes. And by the way, a Blizzard dev praised Thordan Extreme.

But if all you want to do is raid, WoW is for you.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

The increased inventory may also be a factor in things

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Except it's "a bit more comfort in managing space", not P2W. It's certainly a nice bonus, along with possibility to level those retainers and send them on ventures, but it's not something what will make you OP in comparison to others.

WoW and FFXIV tend to differ in execution of the end game due to the gameplay avenues they both provide. WoW is all about linear progression via combat, with crafting being a supplement to that direction. FFXIV tends to have linear progression as an option. They have crafting and other things that people can participate in.