Please add clearance condition to Group Finder

Need to add a "watched 3 YouTube videos" "did not get carried" and a "Is not drunk/tired/waiting for pizza" button as well.

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

Need to add a "watched 3 YouTube videos" "did not get carried" and a "Is not drunk/tired/waiting for pizza" button as well.

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Also:
"Must not own a Cat/Dog"
"Bring a bottle"
"Must have Ritalin/Redbull"

... So how about we just compromise and make joining a party that you -know- you don't fulfill the conditions for an actionable offense? That avoids the problem of potential playerbase segregation and also gives those tired of dealing with scrubs looking to leech off of the people who put in time and effort a weapon to deal with them.

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Originally Posted by ExKage

I actually know someone who snuck into a Levi Ex "farm" or experienced PF group the first week it was out but she's a good player and they one-shot it so the group (in the end) didn't mind.

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Heh, I have to admit to doing something similar actually. I'd already had a good chunk of experience with Levi EX, as the off-tank even, but hadn't been -quite- able to get him down, saw a farm party up, decided, "I feel confident enough I can clear it with these guys, and if it works out and I get my clear I'll gladly stay with them and continue farming." Lo and behold, we handled things pretty well. We only managed a run or two tho because some people had to leave.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Not sure how you get to that. Those 7 players have put in time learning it. It's the one joining and hasn't that think his time is worth more, since he can't be bothered with spending time in learning mode.

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this would be a valid statement if "learning mode" exists.

back in the day so many Titan EX learning PTs, none of them even gets to heart phase. only way for anyone who hasn't cleared to learn is to join clear/farm PTs.

until that changes, you can't blame people for not spending enough time learning when the education system in place is an utter and complete failure.

I kind of have to agree with the OP on this one. The Party Finder is used to form a team of like-minded people in order to tackle content whether it be a primal farming group, or a first room exp farm, or even a learning party.

I don't see why they shouldn't consider implementing this. The PF leader decides the specifications of the group when he makes the PF. Exceptions can be made by said leader if a person who wishes to join but does not meet the requirements simply asks for an exception. If a player who knows that he has the capability to do it, then he shouldn't be afraid to ask. It's not that hard to grasp.

If they do implement this, I hope to see more learning PF groups in the future. Lots of people I know don't take that initiative to start up their own learning party. So I think this may force these players to start acting instead of lazing.

Sounds pretty convenient for you, now that you've already had your "first time" and have had your chance to learn the mechanics. How do you expect newer players to ever get into these dungeons, if experienced players are blocking them from joining?

Duty Finder is an automatic grouping tool that joins you with random players. As in, you may get highly skilled people, or newbies, or anything in between. It is not the place to make demands. If you have specific conditions you need met, then form a group manually. Square Enix would never implement your idea in a million years. It is essentially saying "We don't want new players anymore. If you aren't already a veteran by now, please unsubscribe."

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

Sounds pretty convenient for you, now that you've already had your "first time" and have had your chance to learn the mechanics. How do you expect newer players to ever get into these dungeons, if experienced players are blocking them from joining?

Duty Finder is an automatic grouping tool that joins you with random players. As in, you may get highly skilled people, or newbies, or anything in between. It is not the place to make demands. If you have specific conditions you need met, then form a group manually. Square Enix would never implement your idea in a million years. It is essentially saying "We don't want new players anymore. If you aren't already a veteran by now, please unsubscribe."

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Pretty sure OP is talking about Party Finder, not Duty Finder.

It's a useless flag because having cleared a content once doesn't mean having the ability to do it regularly.

If something like this was implemented it would become the norm, it would end up really bad.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

If something like this was implemented it would become the norm, it would end up really bad.

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Well if everyone respected the requirements players put up in Party Finder this kind of option wouldn't need to be asked for in the first place. Putting up the requirement that must have kill experience should guarantee you don't get first timers, but players with actual kill experience as stated.

Thing is, that doesn't pan out too well so many times that players are getting frustrated with others lieing trying to get a free carry. Don't blame the players asking for this option, blame the selfish lieing players that join partys they shouldn't and spoil it for the rest.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

If something like this was implemented it would become the norm, it would end up really bad.

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I don't think it would be that bad, honestly. This would only apply to PF groups that want to farm content. It's not like farming parties want inexperienced people in the first place hence the "Multiple runs for the loot" being an available specification when creating the PF group. People who trust in their own ability should negotiate with the party leader to make an exception. :)

I understand your point, it would be more desirable for anyone who wants to clear anything to weed out the less experienced, but looking at the bigger picture it does no good for the game, a month or two after content is released you would hardly ever see parties without this clear requirement on.

If people are being somewhat forced to help out the less experienced (not carry, not all newbies are baddies) then so be it, it's better than a situation where people are more excluded than they are atm.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

If people are being somewhat forced to help out the less experienced (not carry, not all newbies are baddies) then so be it, it's better than a situation where people are more excluded than they are atm.

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You do know that peoople wanting to learn can form their own PF parties, they don't have to rely on someone else making one to their requirements. Forcing people to do things has a higher negative effect than otherwise.

So, you think it's fine that random new person joins a kill party and messes it up for the other 7? Even though requirements were for a certain level of experience?

When content is new, I join as a pre-made party of those who havn't touched it yet, usually from FC, and we figure it out together, I don't join a PF party that has cleared and expect to be instructed.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

you would hardly ever see parties without this clear requirement on

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True, implementing this may cause a fluctuation of PFs that require a clear. This is an undenyable possibility that may occur. However, looking at the current situation, wouldn't you say that it is more hostile?

If people who have no experience with the fight joins a farm group, so say Titan Ex, wouldn't they just end up being dead weight causing the remaining members to lash out and act hostile against these players? If they can't enter the party in the first place, hostility is averted.

Like i said before, I know a lot of people who don't take that initiative to start up their own learning party. So by forcing these players to start acting instead of lazing, more learning parties may show up on the radar.

I don\\\\'t think it\\\\'s fine for the people hosting the party, I have also had farm runs "ruined" by people less experienced, I just think this is the lesser mean, the consequences of being able to completely exclude less experienced people would be far worse than dealing with a few wipes and I use the current situation as an evidence of this, most parties already take this exclusion route, a tool like this would only reinforce it.

You say when content is new you go with a pre-formed party, but what if content is not new?

To reiterate, not all people who haven\\\\'t cleared a content are bad, some people know what to do, but can\\\\'t find a party of other people who also know what to do, so they end up relying on the more experienced ones.

So yeah this is something we all will have to deal with, this is still better (or "not worse") than every single party out there using this to block other people.

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

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I only speak for those who know the mechs but can't clear due to bad parties, I don't think they would become dead weights.

Learning parties aren't always the best option when it comes to clearing, because those who have been practicing for weeks are mixed with those who just started.

In the current situation people at least have the chance to clear with some experienced people, should this be enable and there's no doubt every single experienced party would use it, in the end we all like to follow the path of least resistance.

Also to reiterate something that was said earlier, there's no tool to weed out less skilled people. Many people managed to clear content by being dead most of the fight or bought a clear run, these people would get to your party no matter what, this would only shut the door for those who are capable

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Promotes prejudice XD, I'd rather not see it even be an option. I like the idea that in order to force segregation it causes stress, meaning only the most serious will do it - if you make it easy more will do it.
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Not the most serious, the most lazy. Just because someone hasn't done an encounter before doesn't mean they are bad players. This thing the OP is suggesting promotes lazy (not to mention rude) play.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

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Yes, I agree that capable players are not dead weights but I was explaining how those with no experience with the fight can be considered one.

The capable people can join their parties, but just not through PF. I mentioned this before, and these capable players can negotiate with the party leader for an exception to the group if he feels that he is capable enough and trusts in his own ability. There's a reason why they implemented a "Send Tell" button onto the Party Finder.

Don't forget that you also have parties that are for Practice which forces the group to at least read up about the mechanics and work together to get better at tackling it, and for Progression/Kill parties which require you and the team working together to progress further into the fight or dungeon until you can clear it. :)

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

Not the most serious, the most lazy. Just because someone hasn't done an encounter before doesn't mean they are bad players. This thing the OP is suggesting promotes lazy (not to mention rude) play.

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Oh sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant to say the people that were "serious" to segregate. Not the most professional, best, or something like that. :)

In 2.0 I tried being honest and truthful and it did me no good. Even though I DF'd Titan HM so much I could have done it with my eyes closed people still wouldn't give me a chance. So I started lying. No thanks to your clearance condition OP.

U guys are funny. So it is OK for everybody to lie and disregard/disrespect any requirements you make in Group Finder? Because nobody should be locked out? And people who aim to search for a group with similiar experience (at least having killed or having killed several times) shouldn't be allowed to do so because they are mean Elitists leaving the poor other players behind?

LMAO...get a grip. Seriously, get a grip. Nobody of you, I bet, is that much of a good-dooer as some claim here to be. I see how rude people are in Group Finder, I see how quickly ragequitters leave parties and I also see how people behave in Trials Roulette where they all of the time expect to get a one shot no matter how many new players are in the fight - but suddenly when it is about Group Finder and setting specific requirements when you aim to look for players in a similiar boat, we are all a big Family where nobody should be left behind?

You know that there are generally 3 kind of groups up in Group Finder? General training, specific phase training and Kill parties. In almost 100% of all Kill parties they are asking for proof already now. Loot or Lodestone link so it is already happening but I do not like this kind of stalking people and would prefer an automatism. It really isn't more what I am asking for and not far from what is already a given.

There are parties for everything you can imagine. And if not, why not start your own? My answer to that: because many people are lazy and can't be arsed to wait. They want things NOW, no matter who pays the costs for it. In my book, it is not OK and fair Game to join a group that wants to for example train on Phase 3 of a fight while you are really struggling with Phase 1 still and the group never even makes it to the phase they want to train.

Same for people asking for a previous kill. Of course having defeated a content once is no safe sign that somebody can do it. He might have been dead all time, paid for it and what not else. But you clearly see a difference between players with kill experience and players who struggle in the last phase. And yes, there are the quick learners who just need a good group once but as far as my experiences go, they are a tiny small minority.

The ones who claim to have a right to lie in order not to be left behind are surely accepting training people running around like headless chicken in times where they want to farm a boss or Turn quickly? Yeeees, sure everybody in this Game has lots of Patience and endless time on their hands. I see it in the Wildlife of Group Finder that Reality is much different.

The only thing I see here is the desire to generally join any party whatever the group search requirements are. Of course it is no option to make your own party and wait hours like others do, no just jump into any content and any party because it so nicely quick and hey, if the others are experienced, you might get a nice carry if they down it before they kick you.

*starts PF, checks kill experience only. guy who paid for a coil win steps in, does something stupid, wipes team" XD

On a serious note, if you haven't cleared something, you shouldn't go into a party asking for kill experience, because it's not fair for them. Don't make the game about you. Your inexperience might be wasting other people's time. There is, you know, such a thing as a learning party. If you're looking for Coil via PF, try looking for one of those, or start your own.

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Originally Posted by JustPlainLucas

*starts PF, checks kill experience only. guy who paid for a coil win steps in, does something stupid, wipes team" XD

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>>Creates PF "Will kick anyone that dies!"
>>Dies first.
>>Blames lag.

edit: Kutcher comes out from behind the boss, "You've been punk'd!"

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Originally Posted by Dhex

>>Creates PF "Will kick anyone that dies!"
>>Dies first.
>>Blames lag.

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*joins that party, leader keeps dying, I get kicked when I Need on gear I can use* Oh joy...

I have not cleared T5, and the only Ex I've killed was Levi, so I've still got a lot of clears ahead of me. But you know what? I agree with OP. I've scoured those PF's for learning groups and have seen farm group for the same content I'm trying to learn. I don't join those because you know why? I haven't learned the mechanics and I respect the party's conditions.

Respect is a two way street. Respect the elitists by not joining groups where you don't meet the conditions. Elitists, respect newbs by being friendly in groups where they do meet the conditions.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not encouraging people to lie, but this is a player issue created by this exclusion itself, we don't need a system feature to encourage more this exclusion, we need ways to solve it, until then parties are free to deal with it in any way they find convenient.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

Don't get me wrong, I'm not encouraging people to lie, but this is a player issue created by this exclusion itself, we don't need a system feature to encourage more this exclusion, we need ways to solve it, until then parties are free to deal with it in any way they find convenient.

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Oh the solution is simple yet not simple all at the same time. Poor players are why people put the rules in in the first place, with a secondary set putting it in, but being said poor player(ie the one looking for a carry). Fix is get better.

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Originally Posted by JustPlainLucas

*joins that party, leader keeps dying, I get kicked when I Need on gear I can use* Oh joy...

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Honestly, if you join a Greed party and roll Need on things, I'd kick you for not abiding by the party rules.

It seems like nobody reads the party description. I don't write it for my health here, people.

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Originally Posted by JustPlainLucas

*starts PF, checks kill experience only. guy who paid for a coil win steps in, does something stupid, wipes team" XD

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Its funny because its so true it hurts.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Honestly, if you join a Greed party and roll Need on things, I'd kick you for not abiding by the party rules.

It seems like nobody reads the party description. I don't write it for my health here, people.

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Then people should start going as the job if they want a specific item. Getting mad at someone who needs on the item they can actually USE is pretty stupid. regardless of your made up rules.

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Originally Posted by Volcano

Then people should start going as the job if they want a specific item. Getting mad at someone who needs on the item they can actually USE is pretty stupid. regardless of your made up rules.

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Actually, if I recall correctly, SE made a statement about loot rules and that if you join a party, you must abide by that loot rule (If any exist) that has been set by the group. Failure to abide by the loot rules set by the group can be reported and action will possibly be taken.

Edit: Correct me if I'm mistaken though. :)

Edit-edit: Found it!

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

One of the first things we are looking into doing is adding a system so information is displayed in the chat log regarding who lotted on an item.

We've received a lot of requests to make it possible to pass after you've already lotted on an item, but due to the current system as well as prospects for the future we do not have any plans to implement this at the moment.

Also, while this isn't limited to only the topic at hand, it's extremely difficult to prevent human error by creating perfect rules within the game system as it becomes something that forces players to go through a cumbersome process. (Such as going through multiple confirmation windows.)

Naturally we will continue to make changes to the system for improvements, but ultimately we feel that there are situations where we would like you to decide on the rules amongst yourselves. Before entering a duty, make sure that all party members are informed of the agreement and who is able to lot on which item. All party members should agree to those terms before entering to ensure an agreement is clearly understood.

Breaking these agreements, or behavior that imposes on other players' enjoyment of the game, will not be tolerated. If after an investigation it's confirmed that a player clearly understood the rules when joining a group and still acted in such a manner, proper action will be taken against the player, which may include confiscation of the item or account suspension, so please avoid doing anything like this.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

I understand your point, it would be more desirable for anyone who wants to clear anything to weed out the less experienced, but looking at the bigger picture it does no good for the game, a month or two after content is released you would hardly ever see parties without this clear requirement on.

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Month or two? try a day or two. I counted 12 hours after ST was released before people started raging at new people. 12 hours. If this is put into the game I can expect the same from PF.

You can have this option the second they uncap the black-list and allow me to automatically add anyone who uses it to mine. :-)

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Originally Posted by Dark-Saviour

You can have this option the second they uncap the black-list and allow me to automatically add anyone who uses it to mine. :-)

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So you want to blacklist players who like to run a Group search for specific players and not just searches for parties "open for everybody"? Congratulations, most silly and childish answer in this thread so far. You would have to blacklist 95% of all people in Endgame because everybody searches for people in a similiar boat, not only kill parties. You know why there is Duty Finder and Group Finder and what the difference is? God how I already regret to have made this thread. Sometimes it is better not to know what others think.

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

Actually, if I recall correctly, SE made a statement about loot rules and that if you join a party, you must abide by that loot rule (If any exist) that has been set by the group. Failure to abide by the loot rules set by the group can be reported and action will possibly be taken.

Edit: Correct me if I'm mistaken though. :)

Edit-edit: Found it!

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They also made a statment that third party tools are not tolerated and will result in account supension/termination and yet bots are running around freely, destroying the market and still there after reports have been filed, so you'll have to excuse me if they don't "act" on this. so far no one has been silly enough to put such rules up as of yet, since people understand people actually need things. but it's nice you pointed that out.

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Originally Posted by Volcano

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Woah, woah - I have to stop you there. There is no need for the hostility towards anyone, especially SE. Botting is an entirely different problem altogether and they can't just ban people because players assume they are botting. You'd have a case of false accusations beong thrown around left and right. That's why they opted to ban bots periodically instead of once they received a report. This gives them time to investigate.

Alright, getting a little sidetracked here. As for your last statement, yes it is true, but I've seen some greed parties and such, but usually they fall under farming. People usually can negotiate within the group if they want loot. :D

Anyway, I don't see too much of a problem with having this feature. It would only affect those who want to farm for loot and those who want a free carry. Good players can still ask leaders for exceptions to the group. :D

Party Finder is meant for those who wish to stipulate the sort of players they want to play with. Currently Party Finder has no safeguards against liars.

That is what this topic is about, the need to be able to filter out deceptive players. Sorry but this is probably one of the best ideas to be mentioned in awhile.

If you're not a liar, you shouldn't have any issue with it. There will ALWAYS be learning groups, there will ALWAYS be progression groups, why should the farm parties be crapped on, why are you defending deceitful people?

There's no harm in having a checkbox that guarantees everyone in the party has at least 1 clear, heck make it variable, you can check it off for "1 clear" or "10 clears".

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Originally Posted by Volcano

They also made a statment that third party tools are not tolerated and will result in account supension/termination and yet bots are running around freely, destroying the market and still there after reports have been filed, so you'll have to excuse me if they don't "act" on this. so far no one has been silly enough to put such rules up as of yet, since people understand people actually need things. but it's nice you pointed that out.

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Except the point of putting a rule up in PF, is for people to, you know, FOLLOW said rule. If someone puts up a greed only party in PF, and you join(agreeing to the rule) and then proceed to break that rule, that's effectively harassment of one type. It's a trust issue. And while they will never say anything about how many times they've acted on said reports, I'm betting they've done it at least a few times.

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Originally Posted by Dashuto

It is absolutely hilarious just how far people will reach to try and convince everyone else their twisted view is right.

You can practically pick out the sociopaths in this thread within a sentence.

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Umm, seems you like to use words you don't know the meaning of.

And even if you by some chance know the meaning of it. You are the very first one that has said people that debate are sociopaths.