PLEASE REMOVE PVP RANK REQ FROM GEAR

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Grinding = Booring repetitive activity of cheap mechanics made to elongate gameplay time.

Whats the effort in that? endure it? lol.
Anything that comes with just time is equally efortless as something that is handed down to you.

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With that kind of attitude, why are you even playing this game at all?
Leveling = doing repetitive quests and dungeons over and over.
Myth/soldiery grinding = need I say more?
Leveling gatherers, crafters - it's all a grind, really.

There are rewards you earn for doing whether tangible equipment or abilities/access to things others don't.

The grind is ever present in this game even outside PVP. There are PVP rewards that reflect the grind and those that reflect ability. Your definition of 'earn', frankly, is a little bizarre for an MMO.

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Anything that comes with just time is equally efortless as something that is handed down to you.

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This is such silly statement in and of itself. Regardless, it basically means you don't find fulfillment in games like these. So stop?

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Originally Posted by Parodine

With that kind of attitude, why are you even playing this game at all?
Leveling = doing repetitive quests and dungeons over and over.
Myth/soldiery grinding = need I say more?
Leveling gatherers, crafters - it's all a grind, really.

The grind is ever present in this game even outside PVP. There are PVP rewards that reflect the grind and those that reflect ability.

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Leveling = Amazing quest story telling, progression sense, character development, etc, etc, etc. Leveling is far from booring and repetitive.
Myth/Soldiery = grind? who grinds it? lol, myth literally falls from the sky, loged in? have 100 myth, the soldiery cap can be made in a few hours doing Frontlines, 2 hours doing hunts lol.
As a mastercrafter all i can say is lol, it takes 1 week if you make all turn ins yourself to level just 1 crafter to 50, and is a leveling progression process. My record actually was my LTW, from 1 to 50 in 6 hours.

Besides all that content needs to be "long term" in a way or another, is PvE. Player vs Enviroment. PvP on the other hand... LOL. Now he thinks PvE and PvP are the same thing and they have the same rules for game time.

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Originally Posted by Parodine

With that kind of attitude, why are you even playing this game at all?
Leveling = doing repetitive quests and dungeons over and over.
Myth/soldiery grinding = need I say more?
Leveling gatherers, crafters - it's all a grind, really.

The grind is ever present in this game even outside PVP. There are PVP rewards that reflect the grind and those that reflect ability.

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Well since you changed the subject to grinding why don't we look at some stuff that in this game that can actually be called "earning" like HA gear & Savage Coil Titles. You have to actually learn the game and be efficient to get these things, you don't just put time into them you have to learn them and be good at them. Unlike the PVP gear were you CAN put X amount of time and get Y rewards, something that is a certainty no matter what.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Leveling = Amazing quest story telling, progression sense, character development, etc, etc, etc. Leveling is far from booring and repetitive.
Myth/Soldiery = grind? who grinds it? lol, myth literally falls from the sky, loged in? have 100 myth, the soldiery cap can be made in a few hours doing Frontlines, 2 hours doing hunts lol.
As a mastercrafter all i can say is lol, it takes 1 week if you make all turn ins yourself to level just 1 crafter to 50, and is a leveling progression process. My record actually was my LTW, from 1 to 50 in 6 hours.

Besides all that content needs to be "long term" in a way or another, is PvE. Player vs Enviroment. PvP on the other hand... LOL. Now he thinks PvE and PvP are the same thing and they have the same rules for game time.

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My point is, which you've missed, is that all the time you've put into other aspects of the game is, ultimately, a grind. And in your own words, as effortless as if it was all just handed to you. Which brings me to the disparity: you just said things need to be 'long-term' but don't want to put long-term effort into PVP to get to wear 'effortless' things...but you've put that kind of time effort into other aspects of the game. So it's ultimately not anything wrong with the game - you just have different priorities. So also: atma, animus, novus weapons.

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Originally Posted by DishSoap

Well since you changed the subject to grinding why don't we look at some stuff that in this game that can actually be called "earning" like HA gear & Savage Coil Titles. You have to actually learn the game and be efficient to get these things, you don't just put time into them you have to learn them and be good at them. Unlike the PVP gear were you CAN put X amount of time and get Y rewards, something that is a certainty no matter what.

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So you don't think, until you have any HA or savage titles, that you've earned anything in the game? That's interesting. If that's your perspective, then it is what it is. I don't see why you would want bother with anything glamour related, then. Since that's all you think these armors are worth really.

And with that, I'm done. I'm sure they'll lax the requirements in the future like they've done in previous patches. Just wait then. :)

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Originally Posted by Parodine

So you don't think, until you have any HA or savage titles, that you've earned anything in the game? That's interesting. If that's your perspective, then it is what it is. I don't see why you bother with anything glamour related, then.

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Well I bother with glamour stuff because it looks cool why else? Everyone wants to look a certain way, have a certain style to them, not be another face in the crowd. As for earning anything? I guess I really haven't earn really anything in the game at least anything I can really be proud of. Because anyone can get a perfect novus with time and anyone can get all level 50s with time.

Cont.

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Originally Posted by DishSoap

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Things that have high expectations or things based highly on skill something you can really work towards gives players a incentive to do more almost like a passion something they can follow. I feel things like this are important to a game so they don't "Well I'm finished with my daily and weekly stuff time to log off." It's something that you can work with people towards and build stronger relationship with as FC, team, LS, or even small group of friends.

All in all it's something that can be fun, not just some chore.

Well if morale actually mattered in Front Lines I would say no, rank matters. If Front Lines had ranked matches I would say no, rank matters. As it stands, Wolves Den is the only source of PvP were rank does matter so the question is, do enough people play it to warrant gear tied to rank.

Having said that, by the time I do hit rank 40 I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't have enough marks to buy two sets of PvP gear.

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Originally Posted by DishSoap

Like I said you didn't earn anything it's the best PVP gear in the game but it's based on how much time you put into it, grinding. Not into some kind of ranking system based on skill that people who actually do good in PVP can get to prove they are good at it, something they earned. If you can't see the point I'm trying to make I'm sorry.

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So it would be also okay to put all gears outside of coil2 into NPC shops?
Farming this one dungeon fo that one gear? just buy it with gil
Farming roulettes for soldiery tomes to buy ilevel100 gear wih it? Just buy the gear with gil
Farming FATEs for atmas? Just buy them with gil

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Originally Posted by Felis

So it would be also okay to put all gears outside of coil2 into NPC shops?

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First you're missing the context and point, two money making is a form of grinding, and three your comment doesn't even make sense of how earning = SCoB items in the shop.

Forth I don't always respond to troll post but when I do, I make sure to back my logic up just encase it isn't.

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Originally Posted by Felis

So it would be also okay to put all gears outside of coil2 into NPC shops?
Farming this one dungeon fo that one gear? just buy it with gil
Farming roulettes for soldiery tomes to buy ilevel100 gear wih it? Just buy the gear with gil
Farming FATEs for atmas? Just buy them with gil

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The irony in what you posted is that everything you listed is an easymode grind.
Also, where does the gil come from? It's all the same, just a different currency. Grind away.

Just because you choose an arbitrary meaning for the word "earn" doesn't mean people aren't earning things by grinding them. Spend the time to earn the items or don't get the items. "Hey SE, I don't want to play your game and take my time earning rewards on it. Please just make me log on and receive i110, every glamour item I want, etc, so that I can immediately start "earning" items through challenges that I arbitrarily determine to have drops worthy to be called "earned."

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Originally Posted by DefendPopPunk

Please just make me log on and receive i110, every glamour item I want, etc

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Isn't this what grinding is? Log on in the game and do some randoms shit get the item and log out? It's how a lot of people see the game right now and it's a big problem.

people whining about the grind aren't realizing they're playing a MMO

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Originally Posted by DishSoap

Isn't this what grinding is? Log on in the game and do some randoms shit get the item and log out? It's how a lot of people see the game right now and it's a big problem.

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Everyone has different preferences though and for those that like to grind, saying they aren't earning their gear is ridiculous. Besides, for a long time on these forums you would see thread after thread being made where people were begging the devs for grind content. Maybe they went overboard in their response to those threads, that's a separate debate, but the fact remains that a vocal group on here made it clear to the devs that they wanted grind content. It's not uncommon for people to make countless threads on the same topic and devs respond to that demand, we've seen it since the beta, and I'm sure long before that for 1.0 players. As for pvp gear, I have a feeling Frontlines would be even harder to queue for if pvp gear was unlocked from the start, since I tend to run into a lot of people who say in party chat that they want r38 so they can bail.

Having Rank 40 means you finished the PVP "leveling" grind.

Very little in this game is not a grind; Leveling, Crafting, Gathering, Tomes, Hunt Marks, PVP Rank, Glamours, Atma, Animus, Novus, Dailies - all grinds.

I'll be happy the day they implement a leader-board for PVP; then you'll have a real earned rank that has meaning.


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Originally Posted by SevenHeavens

people whining about the grind aren't realizing they're playing a MMO

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This annoys me and here's why; When did boring and repetitive even painfully dull game-play become acceptable? Grinding is fine - I get it. It extends content life, it gives players goals, and it makes people who have nothing better to do with their time feel special when they're really nothing special at all. I don't find it acceptable to double or triple-down so to speak with your grind structure.

Switch your GC - have fun leveling again. Yay twice the content life and 0 extra work - so clever...

What do you mean Dhex? What I mean is this -> a leveled PVP player has more points giving them an automatic advantage - why did they bother balancing the Jobs and remove morale from Frontlines just to make those endeavors at balance pointless by leaving in a leveling (Rank) system? Why does PVP gear remain Rank locked when PVP gear has been rendered useless in Frontlines? If a GC change requires a time lock gil sink and PVP rank reset because people might flock to the most winning GC for Frontlines why does PVP gear matter?

The answer is it doesn't; GC lock is not in effect for Wolf's Den. Nobody is going to flock to a different GC because of Wolf's Den, but yes gear and Morale work here - but why is it irrelevant? Here's why; players avoided Wolf's Den because the EXP and rewards were low - the Rank matching was slow - and they often were paired with other players that simply had win-traded their way to R40 and bought i100 gear so they could simply overpower any newer or lower rank player that lacked a high level of skill. Yoshida didn't like this - so he gave EP and Rewards to FL to get people in and leveling and getting higher gear... but... nobody uses Wolf's Den anymore not for leveling and not for competition until they can wear the gear and on a equal footing.

Basically they rendered PVP gear useless and 4v4 Arena irrelevant to the majority of people.


Grind for the sake of grind leads to badly designed broken systems; broken reward systems, broken leveling (Rank) system, broken upgrade system, broken competition model.

So yeah - quit accepting badly planned and poorly designed systems left and right or you end up with a sh!tty broken game.

Don't even get me started on the weekly-lockout-single-raid or Hunt-free-for-all format in PvE - Yoshida and his team have been making a lot of mess out of their own game lately and people need to let them know that they need to put more polish and direction into their vision.

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Originally Posted by DishSoap

Well since you changed the subject to grinding why don't we look at some stuff that in this game that can actually be called "earning" like HA gear & Savage Coil Titles. You have to actually learn the game and be efficient to get these things, you don't just put time into them you have to learn them and be good at them. Unlike the PVP gear were you CAN put X amount of time and get Y rewards, something that is a certainty no matter what.

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By your logic since you can buy a coil clear (and i assume soon enough a savage one as well) they should just give it to everyone aswell.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

I'll be happy the day they implement a leader-board for PVP; then you'll have a real earned rank that has meaning.

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http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...ntline/weekly/

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Originally Posted by Dhex

Why does PVP gear remain Rank locked when PVP gear has been rendered useless in Frontlines?

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Yoshi-P already said that they're going to change the stats on pvp gear so they're not useless in frontlines.

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Originally Posted by Parodine

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...ntline/weekly/

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Still not really relevant - matches won or lost tells you nothing about that person's individual performance, kill/death average, damage dealt, flags claimed, or anything about the individual. It's a start but it's not where it needs to be.

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Originally Posted by DefendPopPunk

Yoshi-P already said that they're going to change the stats on pvp gear so they're not useless in frontlines.

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Fixing things in retrospect after breaking the crap out of them so that it becomes relevant;

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So yeah - quit accepting badly planned and poorly designed systems left and right or you end up with a sh!tty broken game.

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Rather than playing clean up they should plan out their content and reward systems a bit better - anyone can clean up a mess. Yoshida proved that. His team has to really implement things with the level of cohesive polish he claims to strive for. I'm not an apologist - if something is bad it's bad. Fixing it later doesn't change the fact that you made a mess to begin with.

You say we shouldn't accept bad design. So we clamor for changes and they say they'll make changes. And then you fault them for fixing things in retrospect (in response to us asking for changes). It just seems like they can't win either way with you.

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Originally Posted by DefendPopPunk

You say we shouldn't accept bad design. So we clamor for changes and they say they'll make changes. And then you fault them for fixing things in retrospect (in response to us asking for changes). It just seems like they can't win either way with you.

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"Win" would have been to put in accessible large group 8v8v8 PVP without any restrictions (ie; not tied to Ranking/Leveling) on abilities and had it completely without Morale or PVP oriented gear and without a GC restriction so people could learn and enjoy it with friends - then later implemented team based 4v4 PVP where you need to register with a GC or make a Team and register for a PVP season. Ranks based on class, overall performance, k/d ratio, assists, captures, healing/damage dealt, and team wins to determine both player individual rank and team rank. Gear and morale would have a purpose in 4v4 and you'd need to be registered for a season to get extra points to make your PVP build. Rank resets each season, gear gets added every few patches same iLv but different stats and effects for depth, and a trophy for the top 3 teams on each server.


But that's not what we got, and it's a mess they're still trying to get figured out because they implemented it backwards and didn't have a core vision or goal for it.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

"Win" would have been to implement the pvp system that I envisioned.

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Fixed it up a bit.

To be honest, looking at your system, I'm confused as to why you would even bother having it 8v8v8 if there is no GC restriction. The whole point of frontlines is that the three GC's are fighting over disputed territory. Without that part, there wouldn't even be a need to deviate from the standard team v team formula, and they already did that with Wolves' Den. That being said, why not 4v4v4v4? Or 2v2v2v2v2? Or anything else different and interesting? And while I understand the desire for clan based pvp a la every fps out there, that isn't what frontlines seems to be about. Who's to say you won't get a system like that in the future? The devs already seem keen to implement such a system anyway, if recent interviews and feedback are to be believed. And when that content comes you can criticize every aspect of it as well, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by DefendPopPunk

You can criticize every aspect of it as well, I suppose.

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It's just an example - I'm not a a dev. I'm here to play. Making the playground isn't my job but I can recognize when the swing set is broken and the monkey bars are bent. As they say hindsight is 20/20 = you can fix it when you see it's broken.

Maybe I just expect too much - but when I look at the entirety of FFXIV's PVP all I can think is it was intended to be X, came out as Y, and what it really needed to be is Z.

My point:

I want to see a little more forethought and polish. Not more "We made it, it's broken and backwards and kind of derpy, but we made! Oh and uh sorry we're working on fixing it!"

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Originally Posted by Dhex

I want to see a little more forethought and polish. Not more "We made it, it's broken and backwards and kind of derpy, but we made! Oh and uh sorry we're working on fixing it!"

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That's a fair point. I suppose I'm just a little bit more patient with things like this, and while I would also like things to be done right the first time, I still appreciate that efforts are made to fix mistakes and get things into a more enjoyable state.

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Originally Posted by DishSoap

Like I said you didn't earn anything it's the best PVP gear in the game but it's based on how much time you put into it, grinding. Not into some kind of ranking system based on skill that people who actually do good in PVP can get to prove they are good at it, something they earned. If you can't see the point I'm trying to make I'm sorry.

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You can't see his point either.... Both are wrong and right....

If your good at PvP you will earn it faster if you suck it will take u a long time.

So you still earned it and even if its just a long grinds you still earned it BC not everyone willing to do it

Nobody wants the stats, just the looks.

I feel you :<

I would disagree if PVP gear wasn't so dang useless.

Please don't remove rank requirements for pvp gear! I just got rank 38 the other day and was so proud of myself. Was finally able to equip my wolfseye gear and several other gear I had to buy (because my marks kept capping).

I can't believe people still want the rank requirement to be removed even though we NOW have a faster and more efficient way to rank up and earn PVP marks! (Frontlines)
I got to this rank in just a couple weeks, while cramming many other things in between (coil, dailies, etc.). Stop being impatient and just do the relatively SHORT grind like the rest of us.

PS. This is also coming from someone who's had way more losing teams than winning ones. If your gc/teams win often then it'll be an even faster process for you.

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Originally Posted by CrystalObsidian

I can't believe people still want the rank requirement to be removed even though we NOW have a faster and more efficient way to rank up and earn PVP marks! (Frontlines)
I got to this rank in just a couple weeks, while cramming many other things in between (coil, dailies, etc.). Stop being impatient and just do the relatively SHORT grind like the rest of us.

PS. This is also coming from someone who's had way more losing teams than winning ones. If your gc/teams win often then it'll be an even faster process for you.

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Then people like this come along and prove my point.

mmmmmmmmm
no.

Unless I can be given HA gear for just earning enough tomes

This PvE system inside of PvP confuses me. I still can't see the point of it.

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Originally Posted by Renault

Title.

/thread.

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Remedy, Stop being lazy; others put the work in, so shall you.

I just want the glamour restriction removed. Ill have more than enough long before I hit 38 to get my set. I honestly think most of the glamour restrictions can and should be removed. there is no sense in having them.

As someone who formerly wanted there to be no requirement to glamour i've seen changed my mind now that ive grinded my way up to rank 38. Why the heck should they remove the limit? Do you feel so entitled as a player that you think that every piece of gear in the game should be glamourable by you because you want it to be and you want it right now? Really stop being so childish, you want something work for it. I can promise you glamouring that full pvp set feels so much better when you've earned it rather then when you can just equip it whenever you want. Not only that but as someone who has the full set you better damn well believe i dont want to see 1000s of people running around with my set. It feels unique and i hardly see anyone with the sets and id like to keep it that way. On top of that these statements come across as ignorant as if these pvp sets were added solely for the purpose of them being glamour fodder. These are not ilvl.80 gear sets dropping that were obviously added as in between gear sets or glamour sets, these are the top tier gear for people that pvp and to just give everyone the ability to glamour them would completely destroy any meaning they have. You people honestly sound like the same people who were complaining about not being able to get the pld and war mounts without actually playing those classes. Like what a huge middle finger that would be to someone who worked there way up to rank 40 equipped the full gear set seeing someone who was pvp rank 7 running around with the lion set on who never touched pvp after that.

Some of the arguments on here are a bit rich, considering most people win traded in Wolves Den to get to rank 40 and are able to wear the PVP gear in question due to this.

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Originally Posted by Niroken

This PvE system inside of PvP confuses me. I still can't see the point of it.

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No one but match traders and trolls can`t see the point of it. Is Player vs Players. Grind in any way or form has to be completely outside of it.

Let's be honest when they say they're going to 'fix PvP gear' what they mean is boosting the stats to match the usual gear for the same level. PvP stats are actually subpar compared to PvE gear, with morale being the only useful stat difference. Since this stat is utterly worthless in Frontlines, they simply want to raise the other stats to the same basic level.

PvP gear won't suddenly become 'useful' just merely less useless. It's basically for glamour purposes alone, and now that fewer people are actually bothering with arena based combat, the rank seems like a waste of time. To be perfectly honest, I could care less either way. The items aren't the prettiest in the first place, so I won't be missing much by not equipping them.

Arena pvp is so lame.. bring in open world pvp if you want a taste of real pvp adrenaline. It would be refreshing if they added just one aspect to this game, one zone where they didn't hold your hand through it and where glamour isn't the goal. Just raw, unadulterated, no referee player driven pvp, full of ganking, smack-talk, griefing and zerging :D

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Originally Posted by ToffeeCoffee

Some of the arguments on here are a bit rich, considering most people win traded in Wolves Den to get to rank 40 and are able to wear the PVP gear in question due to this.

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Some people also bought Titan HM wins for relict. Should now everyone get a Novus weapon for free?

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Originally Posted by DishSoap

"I can't defend my point better call him a troll!" Yeah you're not fooling anyone buddy.

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You re sayin that the gear is practically useless except that its mandatory in Wolve's Den if you wanna do pvp there in premades at lvl 50. Basic knowledge, hope you slept well tho. And morale is gettin reworked for 2.35 in Frontlines.