Requesting Dungeon Fix: No more despawning mobs!

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Originally Posted by AlexNiculaie

Many people in game refer to Pugilist as Pug. >.>

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Then they are all wrong, sorry to break it to you.

Pugilist = PGL, that abbreviation has been in the game since retail release. Patch 1.18 changed all weapon/tool descriptions from the full class text to the 3 letter abbreviations the way armor has always displayed it.

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Originally Posted by Fated

PUG = Pick Up Group

This is what happens when you don't even know the correct abbreviation for your armory class.

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Numerous people both on these forums, other forums and in game refer to Pugilist as Pug and seeing as my only 50 is Pugilist well... If that's the point he was referring to actually I group with my LS, we've always got enough people on to run it. We're getting better as we go but clearly we've got some fine tuning to do on the time, getting closer each run though.

I'm not going to argue what the official abbreviation is, most people just say Pug. Say/type/think, it's just what happens.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

ive been to the ogre in 20 mintues with killing stuff....so it should be posible

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This^^ ... Amount of time to get to ogre and kill otw is a joke with half a$$ed dps doing their job. But OP do you actually expect people to be in favor of doing this?!? That requires people to put in extra work and for dps to actually think >.< With all the QQ about mp managment and agro (among other things, which all in all these issues are a pretty big joke if you know how to do your job even half decent. Even during ogre fight till he rages it's laughably easy to stay above 90%mp, even then if dps is doing their job the ogre won't use special and you'll save even more and stay pretty high during rage!) people will not want something else in the way of them gettin further into the dungeon/skipping most of the content.

Honestly though the idea is great and SHOULD be in there, along with mobs not having their own territory in dungeons so they chase you entire lengths. Just right now with all the changes, people are adapting horribly slow (and I do mean SLOOOOW) and have their hands full right now, majority will NOT favor this sadly. Look already at some of the sad flaming/trolling and horrible excuses people are using >.< Asking more brain power from the community will only make their fuzzy lil heads explode from too much computing lol, doubt this "change" will happen for awhile sadly :(

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Numerous people both on these forums, other forums and in game refer to Pugilist as Pug and seeing as my only 50 is Pugilist well... If that's the point he was referring to actually I group with my LS, we've always got enough people on to run it. We're getting better as we go but clearly we've got some fine tuning to do on the time, getting closer each run though.

I'm not going to argue what the official abbreviation is, most people just say Pug. Say/type/think, it's just what happens.

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There is no argument.

Pugilist = PGL, don't like it? Tell SE to change it. I imagine the reason Pugilist was not abbreviated as PUG in the first place is because of the confusion that you displayed previously since PUG is a common abbreviation for pick up group.

It's the same thing that was prevalent in FFXI for the first year or two. People stopped referring to Paladins as "PAL" and Black Mages as "BLK" eventually. I assume the same will happen in this game with PGL, GLA and whatever else.

50rank party rushing thru 30lvl dung is the best anyway, you have enough time to kill everything :)

edit : if people wanna pass mobs, let them be x you can find some hardcore players who wanna more challenge.

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Originally Posted by Fated

There is no argument.

Pugilist = PGL, don't like it? Tell SE to change it. I imagine the reason Pugilist was not abbreviated as PUG in the first place is because of the confusion that you displayed previously since PUG is a common abbreviation for pick up group.

It's the same thing that was prevalent in FFXI for the first year or two. People stopped referring to Paladins as "PAL" and Black Mages as "BLK" eventually. I assume the same will happen in this game with PGL, GLA and whatever else.

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You're right there is no argument. PGL is the official abbreviation. I personally don't give half a damn what the official abbreviation is though because people commonly refer to Pugilist as Pug, causing this obvious confusion. Again, not even talking about the official abbreviation, I'm talking about what people commonly refer to Pugilist as. Doesn't matter if it's wrong or right, that's what people do. And again as my only 50 is Pugilist it can cause confusion.

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Originally Posted by Madruk

I think you misunderstand the meaning of zerg. Zerg is bringing in alot more players than required to something. Perhaps training is the better term to define what you so abhor.

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FINISH HIM!

If there were time-extension type mobs I think this would be an ok idea.

I know I am a lower level so I may not be in the right place to comment, but I don't think everyone records what they do in game just in case they mention it on a forum to be able to prove their point. I already struggle with my FPS without running video recording software, not trying to flame or anything but anyone who says 'video or it didn't happen' should possibly think about the feasibility of it. Likewise though, anyone who brags they did something they actually didn't is lame lol.

Also, the dungeon has only been out a few days really. If people are struggling now I think that is a good thing, it gives great re-playability and people will only get better and better at it (better players, better gear, more experienced with the mobs etc etc).

I kinda see your point OP, that it feels like your 'bypassing' something you 'should' be doing? But part of a good dungeon is picking and choosing parts you do or don't do depending on what you wan't. That was especially true in Dynamis in FFXI (should we get the TE or not? etc) and I think Salvage was like that too? Not quite the same I suppose but the principle is still relevant :).

dare to be different

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Originally Posted by BloodLotus

Why is it a big deal to you that OTHER people are playing a certain way?

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@TheVedis
Considering your opposition to the "we need a level cap for the R25 dungeon" was that you didn't want any restrictions to the way people play, it's kind of odd seeing that you are now perturbed over a particular way that people play now.

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Originally Posted by Rimmer

The mobs can be despawned? Might as well just not put them in the first place and let everyone run to the boss. Imo i think its absolutely stupid that they despawn.

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There actually is strategy in this. If you are running the dungeon as a sub-R50 class, then your party is probably just doing the dungeon for SP, and therefore killing all the mobs.

However, if you are in a party of all R50s, there really is no point to killing stuff for SP, and instead the strategy becomes a race against time. It is actually fairly hard to trigger all the circles, despawn all the mobs, and run to the bosses without suffering any casualties. It takes a lot of coordination and planning.

I would imagine that in play-testing they found that forcing players to kill everything got a bit tiring after the 20th consecutive time, so instead they turned it into just an option.

Remember now, what Yoshida said about "multiple ways to complete a dungeon".

There are rewards for killing everything, if you choose to do so.

edit: the way I typed my post makes it look like I'm responding to BloodLotus, but I'm actually responding to TheVedis.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Considering your opposition to the "we need a level cap for the R25 dungeon" was that you didn't want any restrictions to the way people play, it's kind of odd seeing that you are now perturbed over a particular way that people play now.


There actually is strategy in this. If you are running the dungeon as a sub-R50 class, then your party is probably just doing the dungeon for SP, and therefore killing all the mobs.

However, if you are in a party of all R50s, there really is no point to killing stuff for SP, and instead the strategy becomes a race against time. It is actually fairly hard to trigger all the circles, despawn all the mobs, and run to the bosses without suffering any casualties. It takes a lot of coordination and planning.

I would imagine that in play-testing they found that forcing players to kill everything got a bit tiring after the 20th consecutive time, so instead they turned it into just an option.

Remember now, what Yoshida said about "multiple ways to complete a dungeon".

There are rewards for killing everything, if you choose to do so.

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^ This.

The dungeon is working as intended. If you're bored of approaching it as a speed-run, then by all means kill everything. See if it leads to an extra chest spawn.

You don't need to increase difficulty for everyone to reward extra effort. Especially something one will consider repetitive and pointless for r50s. I enjoy surviving large group of moles and cerfs and toads as I run through them with my party and trigger lights. The coordination it takes and the excitement that comes with it makes it much more enjoyable to me than having to kill all the mobs on the way. It's not like they are difficult to kill.

100% agree NO despawning should exist in this game other wise whats the point.

despawn or not, people will find the way to run away anyway

just let people play the way they want

lol dang, I have seen that same person going off on people in a lot of threads for calling Pugilist, PUG. Who the heck cares? We all know what it means. People like that are out to suck the fun out of everything :)

Please forgive me for playing a game where I don't have 8 available highly skilled players on at the same time, forcing me to PUG

Please forgive me for enjoying survival of the beatdown until the cool air clears the cavern.

Please forgive me for not wanting time extensions. There was a reason I quit FFXI before abbysea came out (it's called IRL). One hour at a time is enough.

Please forgive me for appreciating the choices given to us by Yoshi P in his realization that 3 hour long dungeons every 36-72 hours for entrance is a huge bottleneck for the majority.

Please forgive me for playing your game.

How can you fix something that is not broken?

I'm in favor of removing the despawning mobs method and just adding time extension mobs like in Dynamis. When you are rank 50, these other mobs in the dungeon are pieces of garbage though, they offer you nothing useful. They should make killing them useful, like make the mobs drop armor and weapon pieces or even drop items you can use for dungeons only like HP and MP boost potions, like back in good ol' besieged. We are seriously missing out on a lot of battles. It's like watching a movie then asking to just fast forward to the ending.

You act like if the devices did not despawn the mobs in the rooms that we'd not put them to sleep and run past them. What is the difference? You are just nit picking and coming off as obnoxious.

I personally would enjoy the dungeon more fighting all the mobs along the way.

I find it rather entertaining that some of the people who were clamoring for "hard mode" and "content" are now circumventing it at every opportunity. Some things never change, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

I find it rather entertaining that some of the people who were clamoring for "hard mode" and "content" are now circumventing it at every opportunity. Some things never change, I guess.

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they didnt want full content

they wanted bosses who dropped gear, isnt that obvious

Please do not change this. If you personally want to kill all of the mobs for whatever reason then do it. The rest of us like to be able to make multiple runs of this dungeon in a night for the loot and the intense boss fights. Not for the joy of killing the same mobs over and over.

People want the time extended for this? You realize that's basically like asking for them to slow down your drop rates and add more pointless grinding right? Those of us with full time jobs and a tighter schedule like to be able to hop on and run the dungeon three times in a night.

I really hope the devs read this thread and realize this is the opinion of a select few of us. Or better yet, release some content without taking every complainer's opinion into consideration.

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Originally Posted by Zomb

Please do not change this. If you personally want to kill all of the mobs for whatever reason then do it. The rest of us like to be able to make multiple runs of this dungeon in a night for the loot and the intense boss fights. Not for the joy of killing the same mobs over and over.

People want the time extended for this? You realize that's basically like asking for them to slow down your drop rates and add more pointless grinding right? Those of us with full time jobs and a tighter schedule like to be able to hop on and run the dungeon three times in a night.

I really hope the devs read this thread and realize this is the opinion of a select few of us. Or better yet, release some content without taking every complainer's opinion into consideration.

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id just like to point you, you admited you dont care about content and only want drops in your post

the mear mention of "slowing down drop rates" says alot
and its the attitude alot of people make

guess what! the next few instances will probly be boss only, people like you will be happy, but lets have dungeons be what they are suppsoed to be, dungeons, not "lets run to the boss fight and avoid everything" instances

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Originally Posted by Wynn

I find it rather entertaining that some of the people who were clamoring for "hard mode" and "content" are now circumventing it at every opportunity. Some things never change, I guess.

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Getting to the ogre and the last boss without dying isn't "easy mode", either.

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Originally Posted by Akira_Tenshi

I personally would enjoy the dungeon more fighting all the mobs along the way.

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Then do it that way? You don't need the game to hold your hand and force you to do it that way.

TBH a lot of the dungeons in XI required a lot of hiding tactics that were just a way to avoid a lot of the gameplay. It would be good if fighting the mobs was encouraged instead of rewarding zerging. Or hiding can be fun too like the well timed invis runs and well placed recasts like for example in Castle Ostroja.

(I know I spelled that wrong XI place names are so hard to remember forgive me!)

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Originally Posted by Seif

TBH a lot of the dungeons in XI required a lot of hiding tactics that were just a way to avoid a lot of the gameplay. It would be good if fighting the mobs was encouraged instead of rewarding zerging. Or hiding can be fun too like the well timed invis runs and well placed recasts like for example in Castle Ostroja.

(I know I spelled that wrong XI place names are so hard to remember forgive me!)

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the difference in 11 was that those mobs were so damn powerful a normal group couldnt even take them on to advance in the instance

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Originally Posted by Akira_Tenshi

I personally would enjoy the dungeon more fighting all the mobs along the way.

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then fight them along the way.

If it's that big of a deal make killing the adds give TE, lower boss damage or give an achievement/items. -.-

A good way to encourage fighting the mobs would be some kind of positive reinforcement. For example, in Dungeons and Dragons Online, players accumulate an XP bonus (10-25%) based on the number of monsters slain before the completion of an instance. The highest reward is only offered for slaying all monsters in a dungeon.

This could apply to XP or SP. I'd imagine something like this would encourage more players to defeat many of the mobs, while the players who just want to rush the boss for the gear drops could still have their cake,

Not really a suggestion (but it could be). Just demonstrating an example of good design. I realize not everybody likes the idea of borrowing concepts from other MMORPGs. This one, however, seems okay to me.

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Originally Posted by minihalcyon

A good way to encourage fighting the mobs would be some kind of positive reinforcement. For example, in Dungeons and Dragons Online, players accumulate an XP bonus (10-25%) based on the number of monsters slain before the completion of an instance. The highest reward is only offered for slaying all monsters in a dungeon.

This could apply to XP or SP. I'd imagine something like this would encourage more players to defeat many of the mobs, while the players who just want to rush the boss for the gear drops could still have their cake,

Not really a suggestion (but it could be). Just demonstrating an example of good design. I realize not everybody likes the idea of borrowing concepts from other MMORPGs. This one, however, seems okay to me.

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This is a great idea and would make dungeons more interesting. A lot of people wouldn't care about the extra sp for the r50 dungeon, since they're already r50, but for those still going for sp (and looking toward the future when higher ranks are added) this would allow players to feel some extra pressure while in the dungeon. Getting a large sp bonus at the end proportional to how many mobs you defeat would have parties walking the edge to try to kill as many as possible before entering the boss fight (and saving enough time for that fight as well!) This could make it interesting, but I do think the focus will, and rightly should be, on the advanced gear that can be found in these kinds of dungeons. That is, of course, the number one reason why people do them and why there is a time limit and why they are difficult, as well as secretive (something about a 5th chest...)

so yeah

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Originally Posted by Rimmer

The mobs can be despawned? Might as well just not put them in the first place and let everyone run to the boss. Imo i think its absolutely stupid that they despawn.

I wouldnt mind so much but usually with stuff like this you'll get a group that ends up half wanting to despawn all the mobs and the other half will want to fight them for fun/sp or whatever, more often than not someone going to just drop group and piss everyone off because they cba to wade through the mobs.

Half the fun is the journey through to get to the boss, at least thats what i thought, but upon reading through this thread alot of people seem to love to rush through everything they do asap, it is a shame indeed.


This i think would actually be a better option for resolving the despawning mobs issue, giving a reason to kill the mobs other than SP gain which is pretty irrelevant at 50 anyway, it seems everyone wins with that kind of system, which is alot better option imo.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

id just like to point you, you admited you dont care about content and only want drops in your post

the mear mention of "slowing down drop rates" says alot
and its the attitude alot of people make

guess what! the next few instances will probly be boss only, people like you will be happy, but lets have dungeons be what they are suppsoed to be, dungeons, not "lets run to the boss fight and avoid everything" instances

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And what do you suggest the boss drop at the end of all the hard work and all the time you've spent learning the dungeon figuring out how to kill the bosses and all the deaths along the way its not just zerging through the first few days of the dungeon was learning everything so that you are able to maneuver your way through the dungeon instead of getting stuck in the same places over and over..

You want people to enjoy what they are doing and if zerging it is how they enjoy it then so be it let them do what they want it is their choice not yours, on the same note if you want to spend endless hours in the dungeon killing the same mobs over and over again that is your choice to do so but for those who spent the time to rank up their classes using grind parties to do so will not necessarily want to have to do it again in a dungeon that they are supposed to be having fun in..

Each person has their own views and their own ways to have fun in and out of these dungeons and here you are obviously not having fun at all so you find yourself on the forums complaining telling the devs to nerf .. usually when people are asking to institute a nerf its those very same people that would rather have everything handed to them without having to do anything on your own to get it.

Well as they made the 5th and final chest finish dungeon within 25 mins I am pretty sure that they had running through mobs in mind when they made it.

IMO is pretty good the way dungeons works now, but if they could increase timers a bit, idk 20-30 mins more, people would have time to clear it all the way, while i enjoy it now, i would enjoy dungeons even better if i could kill everything in my way.

And please keep the difficulty as it is or make it even more difficult the boss fights, we need that ffxi feeling while we accomplish something.

I posted a more positive idea about how to make people want to kill mobs in the dungeons in the future, and oh look im getting flamed for it too! didnt people ask for a positive spin on it?

dont you love these forums when it comes to that

Pretty clear by now that eluding the mobs was part of the design. This gives people that want sp the option to do it, while the full 50 groups have the option of skipping the clearing of tedious trash. Sounds like a win win situation to me.

you would never be able to get the 4th blue chest if you had to kill everything, and that chest is the one that has the sword and bow.
so no, i disagree.

Haha even yoshi disagree's with you vedis, since he specifically designed the dungeon to be blitzed in order to get the magical missing chest

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But there are rewards you can’t get just by killing the last boss. Stick to it, though, and keep searching for the key to unlocking that additional treasure!

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AKA blitz it faster and learn to avoid dmg and optimize your run so you can finish fast enough to get that last chest.

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Originally Posted by tachikoma

Haha even yoshi disagree's with you vedis, since he specifically designed the dungeon to be blitzed in order to get the magical missing chest



AKA blitz it faster and learn to avoid dmg and optimize your run so you can finish fast enough to get that last chest.

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Yoshi actually said this before people were getting 4 chests, hell he said this before people were getting the warlock's shield chest in the drake room. he wasn't just talking about the 5th chest at that time.