Red Mage: The one class that will be impossible to impliment

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Originally Posted by Duelle

*twitch* There's no such thing as Final Fantasy Tactics Advance.
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http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/F...actics_Advance

I pretty much disagree with everything the OP said.

It assumes there is only one way to have a RDM. FFXI showed that RDM wasn't set in stone and it became a huge debuff oriented class. This is something it never did in previous games.

Nothing is set it stone. We will definitely get RDM some day.

No to enspells. Leave that for spellfencer.

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pss: by the way, i will not be surprise if they do something drastic like make the jobs for musketeer be redmage, change him weapon for a gun will solve a loooooot of trouble.

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No, it would give rise to far more trouble than it would solve.

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Originally Posted by Lexarious

No to enspells. Leave that for spellfencer.

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Implying that Spellfencer will not be a possible class for RDM As Tharian and other pointed out, The Red Mage is similar to a spellfencer already. Havinf one be a job and another being a class needed for said job wouldn't be much of a stretch.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

by the way, i will not be surprise if they do something drastic like make the jobs for musketeer be redmage, change him weapon for a gun will solve a loooooot of trouble.

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Yeah because all Frontline DPS want to be monks, everything else that fights mobs hand to hand has to be a Tank, and no way will anybody complain about that whatsoever:rolleyes:

All I have to say...

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen..._the_red_mage/

This guy put more work than even the devs would into the idea.

When I played 11 I loved RDM. The problem in 11 most of the players wanted me to main healer and in the back row. And it was a pain in the ass to the other players that it was a dps and it was a combat mage. I just pray that if RDM does make it into the game that the players don't mess it up.

Sage has similar issues, especially as a signature sage skill, flare, is allready in game.

Sigh, I can dream though

Vanilla RDM is really easy, but cross-class heavy, and also DPS.
Base class - Gladiator, which uses Riot Blade combo much better
Cross-class skills: Cure, Blizzard, Fire, Thunder, Swiftcast, but no Astral/Umbral buffs as those are THM's bread and butter.

There you have your sword, your board, and your basic black magic and white magic spells, and even a poor man's Dual Cast. Anything more than that is just added flavoring. However, a little bit of added spice:
Base class skill changes - Increased Enmity on abilities changes to Increased Magic Damage (5% per stacks, stacks up to 5x, 10s duration), possibly also Increased Healing Potency at the same time, but that might be overkill.

This gives them a bonus to keep them in line with other DPS while also giving a reason to actually use those single-target spells. Although, giving access to Blizzard II and Fire II would also be nice.

Thus covers RDM classic, while leaving all five Job abilities open to flavor RDM XIV's personal identity.

i think what people don't see is the fact that they need to balance the jobs... and for this... the red mage can't keep all him tool from the solo game. because the balance is not the same.
here to have a caster that fight at melee and use black and white magic... all it miss it's be able to tank and he can do everything.
a class that can do everything in a mmorpg it's either weak or overpowered! because we need to have a role for this sort of game. we are not alone!

then if they leave the melee capacity to the red mage, you can be sure, that him capacity to use spell at range will disappear, all for the balance wise. but int this case, it will not be the red mage, but the rune fencer. what work for solo game, can't work for multiplayer game!

They can do RDM easily, they just need to find a gameplay for it and put melee attacks and spells animations and here goes your RDM. You could even take an already existing class as an example : DRG

2 Combo, the debuff combo and the DMG combo, 3 non buff/dots :
Makes the Debuff combo have 2 fence skills and finish it with an instant thunder spell for dots, makes the DMG combo the same, 2 sword skill that ends with an instant spell, have the non combo buff/dots be instant spells or buffs and you have your RDM.

You have to think out of the box. Don't think of it as a jack of all trade, but as a job that can use melee skills and magic skills and you can open new possibilities.

i do think out of the box, it's why i say... it's maybe better to use the gun class as base for the red mage.

Considering FFXIV is a fanservice game, i don't really see RDM being a gunner ( or i'll be disapointed if i don't get my rapier ), but it can be, i'd bet on Blue mage for gunner.

I think Red Mage would be simple for them to implement.
Scholar in a way is a healing-focused Red Mage.
All they would need to do is apply a Stance system and even out Int/Mnd stats on their gear.
Give him Cure/Fire/Ice 1, DoTs, Raise and an AOE, mixed stat gear and bam! Red Mage!

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Yeah because all Frontline DPS want to be monks, everything else that fights mobs hand to hand has to be a Tank, and no way will anybody complain about that whatsoever:rolleyes:

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This. We need more variety for front line DPS. Fists, spears and daggers don't do anything for me.

It is possible to make a Red Mage in FF14.

The issue is that the Red Mage will not turn out as what most people want the Red Mage to be.

It most likely will be a generic Melee Mage Damage DPS class/Job with it own unique Job skill mechanics (something maybe say sword enchanting or spell building mechanic) like Ninja has with it unique Job skill mechanic the symbol system.

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Give him Cure/Fire/Ice 1, DoTs, Raise and an AOE, mixed stat gear and bam! Red Mage!

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Where's the swordplay? I don't see a Red Mage in what you put out there.

i've also given this alot of thought. rdm is a support class, and there's no room or it in a 4 man dungeon. a pure support job would either be way overpowered in an 8 man or way underpowered in a 4man. i guess they could give it a debuff while supporting like they did to bard but i don't like it.

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i've also given this alot of thought. rdm is a support class, and there's no room or it in a 4 man dungeon. a pure support job would either be way overpowered in an 8 man or way underpowered in a 4man. i guess they could give it a debuff while supporting like they did to bard but i don't like it.

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Since when is Red Mage a pure support job?

RDM IS NOT BACKLINE. It is a combat mage that uses a rapier.

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Originally Posted by Deedsie

Since when is Red Mage a pure support job?

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Shhh, don't tell then that there are other Final Fantasy games, they still think FFXI and FFXIV are the only FF games, if they knew the truth, they'd be destroyed in the inside.

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Originally Posted by Deedsie

Since when is Red Mage a pure support job?

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Since FFXI.

An idea could be making Red Mage a branch job of Thaumaturge by giving him a free stance like Sword Oath that changes all Fire/Blizzard/Thunder spells into melee skills with sword attack animations (like sword spells): activating this stance would make him able to attack at melee range only but with a damage or spell speed bonus, therefore making Red Mage a caster-melee DPS hybrid that is able to quickly switch between short and medium-long range when necessary.

Then give him all the cross-class skills from Conjurer(Cure, Stoneskin, Protect, Raise) and Archer(Raging Strikes, Quelling Strikes), an improved MND stat similiar to Arcanist, some cool job skills like Addle and Dual Cast, a nice red hat, and you easily got yourself a new job!

EDIT: While this Red Mage can still use THM weapons, they would have to make new Magic Swords unique to Red Mage (so not equippable by THM/BLM) and make having them equipped a prerequisite for using the stance and other job skills, just like with a soul crystal: in other words, a Red Mage using a staff instead of a magic sword would be like a buffed THM with CNJ/ARC cross-class skills, but with his RDM job skills greyed out.

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Since FFXI.

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A pure support job has elemental magic, sword and dagger skills, and the vast majority of its buffs SELF ONLY?

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An idea could be making Red Mage a branch job of Thaumaturge by giving him a free stance like Sword Oath that changes all Fire/Blizzard/Thunder spells into melee skills with sword attack animations (like sword spells): activating this stance would make him able to attack only at melee range but with a damage bonus, therefore making Red Mage a caster-melee DPS hybrid that is able to quickly switch between short and medium-long range when necessary.
Then give him all the cross-class skills from Conjurer(2nd class) and Archer(3rd class), some cool job skills like Addle and Dual Cast, a nice red hat, and you got yourself a badass new job!

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Never. It'd have to come from a class that uses a blade to begin with. Thaumaturge does not do that.

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Originally Posted by Deedsie

Never. It'd have to come from a class that uses a blade to begin with. Thaumaturge does not do that.

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Well, while a Red Mage can still use staffs, they could make new Magic Swords unique to Red Mage (so not usable by THM/BLM) and make having them equipped a prerequisite for using the stance: in other words, a Red Mage without a magic sword and using a THM weapon would be just like a buffed THM with CNJ/ARC cross-class skills and with his RDM job skills greyed out.

This idea could also be useful if they ever decide to implement a job like a Dark Knight that branches from Gladiator but uses two-handed swords only.

If it hasn't been mentioned already the WoW enhancement shaman is kind of a RDM, minus the totems, magic dogs and obvious visual differences; hit guys with magically augmented melee weapon, shoot magics, limited healing ability.
Think it's a bit of a stretch to claim a RDM is impossible to implement when there's a somewhat similar example out there already.

Also, anyone else find that these 'new class/job' threads constantly make the current weapon-centric armory system seem like even more of a terrible idea? -_-

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Originally Posted by ParanoidHobo

Also, anyone else find that these 'new class/job' threads constantly make the current weapon-centric armory system seem like even more of a terrible idea? -_-

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It was revolutionary but I think the problem lies within some shoehorning the classes they want. Honestly I'm not int he amp that of Spellfencer being a class to the Red Mage's job.

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Originally Posted by lololink

Shhh, don't tell then that there are other Final Fantasy games, they still think FFXI and FFXIV are the only FF games, if they knew the truth, they'd be destroyed in the inside.

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The best way to remind of other game sis to repeat the Lightning returns promotional event =P.

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Originally Posted by Rosy

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/F...actics_Advance

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Thank you, you just invalidated a large chunk of my post…

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Originally Posted by Aethergoggles

Hmm I was thinking about that whilst reading this thread, the way gear sets work right now you can only have one primary stat, so for red mage you could only have Int or Mind or Str... If the red mage had one of these stats, for instance Mind, you could easily switch to damage dealing by having cleric stance as a cross class ability

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Out of curiosity, but I am assuming you are claiming that because it hasn't been done yet that there must be some rule that says that all class abilities and attacks are somehow unique to the class that they currently belong to (excepting of course for when they are utilized as cross-class abilities)? But honestly, what is stopping Square-Enix from recycling certain abilities on a new class or job? Why couldn't Red Mage have as one of its class abilities Cleric Stance, or an ability that functions in an almost identical manner to Cleric Stance? Why must it automatically be relegated to a cross-class ability for the Red Mage?

One thing I would like to point out for the people claiming you can’t have Red Mage because it would be a single class in need of two primary stats is: who says that Square-Enix can’t create a caster class with a primary stat such as Strength or Dexterity or something? I mean it worked for D&D’s Tome of Battle Classes, so why wouldn’t it work here? I mean I admit that the Tome of Battle Classes were actually melee classes that had non-magical martial techniques and stances that behaved in a lot of respects like spells but still weren’t… but still it’s been done.

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Originally Posted by Lexarious

No to enspells. Leave that for spellfencer.

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Leaving aside the fact that originally the Spellfencer and Red Mage were synonymous, why shouldn’t the Red Mage be allowed to have Enspells? Originally that was the Red Mage’s domain.

2 things:

First, in FFXI rdm was used a a support-healing role, but it was indeed a hybrid role that could make almost everything, and i never used it as support-healer back then, yes i had to solo most of the time.
Let me make this clear, no one wanted rdm to be a support class in ffxi, most hated exp pty play as rdm, and no one want it to be a support class here.


Second:

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Yoshida: Yes, we want to make sure that there is space in the party for at least two people of each role. 4-6 players is a number which has been used frequently in recent MMOs, but I stuck with the figure of eight people since back in the design stage for the aforementioned reasons. You can have two each of healer and tank and four DPS in the present situation. Once we add the hybrid role (which serves multiple roles), you'll be able to have two players from each role, for a total of 8 people.

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http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/119...s-with-Yoshida

Also please swords, not guns, there's already a magic gunner class in ff.

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Originally Posted by Jacost

How about having it switch between phases, like the THM/BLM? In it's casting phase, it either spams spells or uses a melee-style combo (who better to apply combos to spells?). When out of MP, it switches to using melee attacks that restore MP on successful hits. Or have it's physical attacks (or a different physical attack) apply a stacking buff up to a point, which powers up the next spell it casts. There are any number of ways to make an interplay between melee and magic attacks on a single class.

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I like this idea, it's fairly balanced and makes a lot of sense.

I won't say it would be impossible to create a solid Red Mage job/Fencer class. However, it would be very difficult to balance against the other DPS classes. Given that the class would require heavier armor than any mage class and a rapier class weapon, it cannot easily fit the Healer role (though something like Physick would be good for survival purposes). Nor can it easily fit the Tank role (it never wore heavy armor and never had great defense).

Red Mage/Fencer would likely fit as a magic DPS, though in closer combat than Black Mage/Thaumaturge. En-spells would be a given for the class (as I'd suspect it would fit a Rune Fencer-type job in the future). An Adloquium/Phalanx ability would also be a given for the job, as would a Doublecast ability.

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Originally Posted by Renik

Let me make this clear, no one wanted rdm to be a support class in ffxi, most hated exp pty play as rdm, and no one want it to be a support class here.

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Actually this is not true. While I would personally LOVE a magic frontline DD
there are people that enjoy the support side to red mage. They've posted
on countless threads, and in game about loving the support side. Red mage
has never really had a focus. It never was just a DD or just a healer, or just
a buffer/enfeebler.

Sadly the way this game works (trinity) SE will likely have to pick one way or
the other. I'd personally love an implementation similar to bard. Front line attacker
with magic buffs and attacks/effects. (bravera faithra enspell) Maybe let red mage
combo or build up some sort of points that can be spent in conjunction with MP to
cast spells by fighting up front.

Again, just because I know I'd enjoy an upfront close and personal rdm type, doesn't
mean I don't realise there are others that enjoy other aspects of the class in tradition.

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Originally Posted by Volsung

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Well that's just (don't get me wrong) weird ppl, some like playing as support, but rdm never was a support job, most ppl in ffxi just hindered it's potential, but if someone want pure support classes. there are some in ff, like green mage and time mage, but rdm is not one of them, it's an hybrid.

And if you can read the first part of my post you can read the second one, if yoshi finally implements the hybrid role, the trinity will be broken.

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Originally Posted by Renik

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Oh believe me I can read, an that quote along with others
have been going around for a loooooooooong time. Just like
when yoshi talked about making players choose a job on branching
classes, forgoing one and sticking with the other. These are
things that might come to fruition and might not. If they made a
hybrid role, thered be no reason at all for this thread or the others
like it xD

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Originally Posted by Volsung

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True, but the good thing, is that this quote is not that old like others, and, i'm sure i have seen it in more interviews, just linked this one because someone posted it this morning, also i support my faith on it on another quote "the gun job will not be what you expect" or something in that line, if it's planned and in development, the addition of a new role will be breaking news, and everyone knows how SE loves to hide those.

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Originally Posted by Renik

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Yea that quote was from dec 4th. So it could still indeed be pointing to maybe first expansion or something.
Hoping we'll learn more at the fan festivals and stuff. I'd be all for hybrid role IF they make enough classes/jobs
to fill them, that people actually want to play. or else we could end up in another "waiting for" predicament
like tanks atm.

If rdm needed a trinity role, I choose dps. buuut~ if they wanna spice the trinity up I'd be ok with that.

Red Mage IS this, Red Mage NEVER was that... /facepalm

Red Mage.. is different. In like..every game that it is in.. and all games count. Even FF11. But alas, they could make it different, yet again. Yes?

I've only seen one constant: That outfit.

It is indeed a good outfit. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

It is indeed a good outfit. :cool:

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Hmmm...

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...I_Red_Mage.png

In-line with topic...

Am I the only one who actually likes the FFXII Red (War)mage and can see it implemented in a MMO? Asides from wielding maces, they were the only job discipline to use Arcane Magicks, along with Black and White Magicks. Extending that idea from a mystic-fencer type class won't be totally out of the question either.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

Hmmm...

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x.x Wow, how did they make the RDM outfit look so bad.. :mad:

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Originally Posted by ParanoidHobo

If it hasn't been mentioned already the WoW enhancement shaman is kind of a RDM, minus the totems, magic dogs and obvious visual differences; hit guys with magically augmented melee weapon, shoot magics, limited healing ability.

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Ret Paladins also meet the requirements. Enchant your weapon (seals/enspell), limited magic (exorcism/elemental nukes), limited healing (flash of light/lower tier cures than a WHM). The only difference being WoW paladins can remove debuffs and up until Cataclysm they also had auras.

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

I've only seen one constant: That outfit.

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Bravely Default still wins the prize for worst RDM outfit design. Lightning's RDM outfit is the close second. As far as grand prize for awesome RDM design:
http://yare-yare.com/31821939_p3.jpg