Delay the Rogue/Ninja class till expansion.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

Oh it's no biggie:
-The DF doesn't actually just do
-Tank
-Healer
-2 random DD's

It actually tries to get
-Tank
-Healer
-Melee DD
-Ranged DD

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Actually the regular DF queue doesn't try for one of each. Only the PvP queue does that.

I will wait for your thread complaining that this one got deleted and you don't know why.

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Originally Posted by Highlanderx

Actually the regular DF queue doesn't try for one of each. Only the PvP queue does that.

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Actually, it does:
https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...95451773_o.jpg
*que'd as bard*

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...30857341_o.jpg
*que'd as dragoon*

Both were queing for Expert Roulette.

So instead of having them work hard on a new Tank and Healer class for the expansion, you want them to add a new Tank, Healer, the Rogue AND the Ninja? Sure, it's not like they don't have enough on their plate. Let's just double that shit up yo!

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

Lots of points, were 7 in fact.

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1.- Most people has already all their classes above 30 at least. Anyone playing solid 3 hours a day since launch. What can i grant you about this point is that nor you or i know the exact numbers and we can only hope SE make an informed decicion about this numbers they and only they have.

2.- No everyone is diferent than most players. Sadly for your point, MOST PLAYERS are interested in NIN and WILL BE leveling them.

3.- Even if they fix the melee DD-Ranged DD ratio, they will not get rid of the party setup issue, parties are made to old a max of 2 or 4 DPS, adding more DPS just will make queues longer for both, ranged and melee since you will never have the same proportion of classes anyway, add on top of that that a good portion of the DPS population will be in the same class.

4.- Those same reasons have been proved useless right now to solve the actual DPS queue times in low level content, average 20 minutes on a crowded server. You think another DPS wont hurt it even more?

5.- Pre-made parties are an option of the game, as is not playing anymore, it makes no sense to call this card since we are not talking about the options we have to deal with the problem, we are talking about how to PREVENT the problem. Two diferent things.

6.- People playing to reach new level caps will do it first in their mains, and that level cap will obviusly requiere high end content and high end leveling, rising the level cap will actually HURT the situation by making dedicated tanks and healers to stay away from low level content by being in high end leveling.

7.- Because leves and FATEs are incredibly well done content everyone is happy to do for the octozillion time. Of course you dont have much of a choice when queue times become +1 hour.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Oh right. because if the new class was a Tank instead, we'd be right back here on the forums complaining abut TANK queue times because the queues are saturated with them. For the same reason. Jeez, some people can be rather dense.

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As i said before already, adding anything ALONE that breaks the 2-1-1 ratio is a bad idea. But from the list of bad ideas, being that class alone a DPS is the worse idea.

The reason people aren't playing tanks and healers isn't because they don't like the Jobs that we have, it's that they don't want to play those specific roles, sure you'll see initial interest for the roles shoot up on release, but it will quickly go back to normal when the new factor is gone and what you're left with is a role you don't want to play.
The idea of delaying a Job because of such notions is absurd.

its going to be like ACN when i was released, at least that branched in to two jobs
i wll be playing rogue > nin because i have nothing left to lv
retainers50/crafters50/gatherers50/dow50/dom50

ready for those long df waits while i fate it up

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Originally Posted by Ghasto

The reason people aren't playing tanks and healers isn't because they don't like the Jobs that we have, it's that they don't want to play those specific roles, sure you'll see initial interest for the roles shoot up on release, but it will quickly go back to normal when the new factor is gone and what you're left with is a role you don't want to play.
The idea of delaying a Job because of such notions is absurd.

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Actually they dont. And this is specially true for tanks.

And that initial interest as you call it will last weeks, till you begin to see ninjas, the surviving ones, making into a very crowded end game that already have more than restricted space for melee DPS and then the initial DF/PF issue of the low level "singularity" will turn into high level problems. But yeah, you are right, why make things good from the begining if we can make it bad and then go on fixing and adding problems to the devolpment.

Don't worry OP. you have some very good points and superb forethought. We'll just be able to say "I told you so" later.

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Originally Posted by krazyrs

its going to be like ACN when i was released, at least that branched in to two jobs
i wll be playing rogue > nin because i have nothing left to lv
retainers50/crafters50/gatherers50/dow50/dom50

ready for those long df waits while i fate it up

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Its gonna be x1.000.000 times worse than ACN. ACN was new in comparison to beta test and was launched with a lot of classes along it, of course since no one could play it in beta, a lot of people played it because it was new from the beta perspective, but soon players moved to the other classes, those, what, 2 weeks? were hellish for DF. But now things are diferent, is a completely new class that comes to a game with LOTS of high level charactes, more high levels than low leves and with a player base already stable that is not seeing big influx of characters (most of the PS4 players are actually PS3 players)... I wouldnt be suprised if for the first weeks we see a 5 ninjas - normal DPS - healer - tank ratio like: 5-3-1-1.

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Originally Posted by ruinedmirage

Don't worry OP. you have some very good points and superb forethought. We'll just be able to say "I told you so" later.

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You don`t know how much i dont want to make that thread. Mostly because i care about the game (more than white knighs that are just indulgent to SE mistakes) and above all the game experience. A gazillion ninjas running arround will be fun on day 1, for week 2 will be just tiring, booring and the whole idea behind this class as a concept and a much needed new air to refresh the already 1 year old classes that barely have seen changes will make players just feel sick of even playing as ninja. And the whole implemantation will crumble away. And you will probably see all the trolls on this thread starting threads like "ninja suck", "queue times too long", "cant find party as ninja" and a neverending list of titles lol.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

How hard is to understand a new DPS implemented alone right now is a terrible idea and is just doomed to failure right off the bat?

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I'm more curious as to how hard it is to understand that the tank/healer/dps player ratio has almost nothing to do with the tank/healer/dps class ratio.

Changed my mind. Getting tired of explaining crap on these boards at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Highlanderx

Actually the regular DF queue doesn't try for one of each. Only the PvP queue does that.

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No it does ...this was explained near launch by the devs when it was directly asked about.

PvP is the only queue that forces it.

I am on a legacy world where most people seem to be hardcore players who burn through things as quickly as possible and become hungry for more content. If ninja is the only job added to a patch then I can forsee revenant's toll filled with a cluster of hundreds of ninja, just like everyone put their fat chocobo mounts on display when that was released. I don't really mind the imbalance this creates, the game already has numerous flaws. If queue times for ninja are too long then I will just have to raise it with fates and leves.

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Originally Posted by Silverharp

Hey, remember when that online video game petition actually caused something to happen?








Neither do I.

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Operation Rainfall

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Originally Posted by Enepttastic

I'm more curious as to how hard it is to understand that the tank/healer/dps player ratio has almost nothing to do with the tank/healer/dps class ratio.

Moar incoming as I type.

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I understand that perfectly. What decides what each player plays are a lot of factors between the ratio of classes is just another one.

YET IS important since how party is configured and how is in any case to keep a balance between roles based on that party composition to make things as balanced as posible granted we all know everyone will play what they want and you will never see a perfect distribution of players between roles no matter what, you could have 1 DPS, 1 tank and 1 healer and proportions will be diferent. But damn, at least you are giving that player base a equally proportioned foundation from which it will vary, but it will be at least, a somewhat more distribuited foundations.

Now, add we dont have said proportional foundation which or party configuration demands, and on top of that adds that popular classes, iconic classes and fun to play, visually appealing, edgy, etc classes pull more people to them. Come on, im a DRG lol, i know how a player feels about being edgy and spiky and having a flashy cool move set and a fun to play class. Guess what, NIN seems to be all of that. Not to mention how appealing a dual weild sword/dagger class already is... Is gonna pull more people into it than a blackhole. Thats why im asking for adding it along another 2 classes, a Tank and Healer, not just to have at last that properly balanced foundation to add new classes in the future, but also to give the player base several focuses and not just one.

If you added the Ninja along with the Samurai or a Dark Knight and another healer, like a Chemist, an Oracle, (Anyone can see Geomancer as a healer?) you will divide the focus of the player base, you WILL make the player base to divide and spread between more classes and it will make the whole experience better to level ANY of those. Even if the Ninja is highly appealing.

But as it is right now, NIN is like a coca-cola in the desert.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

1.- Most people has already all their classes above 30 at least. Anyone playing solid 3 hours a day since launch. What can i grant you about this point is that nor you or i know the exact numbers and we can only hope SE make an informed decicion about this numbers they and only they have.

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First: Again you are assuming everyone has a 'must level all the things!' mentality. This simply doesn't happen. Heck some people who DO have this mentality but who have a class/job or 4 still to level that they haven't leveled due to (meh, not really interested in tanking/healing etc) might actually jump on the bandwagon AS a healer/tank to 'quickly get through it'
Second: You are acting as though the ONLY thing that will be launched in patch 2.4 is Rogue/Ninja. The fact is, new dungeons, storylines etc will also be released at this point....and players will divide up into different interests (some will level non-stop to be 'world first Ninja' but others will want 'world first BC3 clear....or go beserk crafting/gathering new items...etc) And in the '3 hours a day' club, this attention will be even more divided as they won't have time to do all the new stuff each day.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

2.- No everyone is diferent than most players. Sadly for your point, MOST PLAYERS are interested in NIN and WILL BE leveling them.

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Meh, People who play and main DPS roles (esp Melee) DPS roles are those who are likely most interested in them. Does that mean that dedicated tanks/healers/casters won't level it? Of course not. But their 'rush' to level is far less, and they very well might be happy to do other things and profit on the 'player in need' queue bonuses/help friends/do other content. I'm a 'main healer' type. Rogue/Ninja looks bad-ass....i totally understand and respect why people are excited about it (as they should be), but I'm not in a rush to level it....and technically, it's the only roll i'd have to level.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

3.- Even if they fix the melee DD-Ranged DD ratio, they will not get rid of the party setup issue, parties are made to old a max of 2 or 4 DPS, adding more DPS just will make queues longer for both, ranged and melee since you will never have the same proportion of classes anyway, add on top of that that a good portion of the DPS population will be in the same class.

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The amount of players stayed the same. And again, for the most part, people who will be die-hard in a rush to level this, would overwhelmingly be 'DD mains' anyway. What does it matter if someone who use to queue as Monk is now queuing as Ninja? The full-fill the same party slot. What it WILL help is lessen some of the Ranged queue wait times (as right now it's typically only SMN/BRD/BLM that have to wait forever). In 2.1 CT my SMN could wait 45+ mins for a party...my DRG 5....typically less of a wait than my WHM btw. Now will DD waits be longer for leveling dungeons, yeah maybe....but they won't be crazy long, because not every person leveling will be on the same point. The only folk who will notice it hardcore will be level 50 DD's trying to level-sync down for dailies, and they could do another party roll (and this might just entice them to do so....hint sch pre level 30 is OP and bad-ass...your fairy does all the work)

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

4.- Those same reasons have been proved useless right now to solve the actual DPS queue times in low level content, average 20 minutes on a crowded server. You think another DPS wont hurt it even more?

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I live on a crowded server. My husband seldomly waits long for a queue on his Bard or Monk. Time of day also affects your queues. Because more crowded servers also just have more people doing content all the time (meaning more groups in dungeons). So it still works out.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

5.- Pre-made parties are an option of the game, as is not playing anymore, it makes no sense to call this card since we are not talking about the options we have to deal with the problem, we are talking about how to PREVENT the problem. Two diferent things.

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There will always be a race to level new stuff to some degree....you are making it out to be an epic problem...but all it will actually do is probably keep low-level dungeons and roulettes more relevant for longer....which SE needs. This also buys them more time because it keeps us happy with the 'leveling' content vs. desiring more level 50 content. And again, you can queue with 3 other FC mates....you should know 3 other people in game by now. Heck, they might even make the low-level dungeons be enterable by a pre-made party just like the High and extreme dungeons by this patch. Or let us take our chocobos in...there was talk of that as well. The point: maybe instead of running around shouting that the sky is falling you should look up first...or wait for more details about the patch. This is SE's problem to solve, and I doubt they'd simply offer this class/job in 2.4 if they didn't also have other ideas on how you could level.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

6.- People playing to reach new level caps will do it first in their mains, and that level cap will obviusly requiere high end content and high end leveling, rising the level cap will actually HURT the situation by making dedicated tanks and healers to stay away from low level content by being in high end leveling.

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The daily roulette....no matter the level will upscale your exp/gil bonus at the end of the dungeon based on the difference between the dungeons max level and your characters....the game basically tells you this now when you enter a dungeon below your level. So yes, if level cap is raised at this point, of course most folk will level their 'main' first...but they can effectively do that in dungeons of ALL levels. So low-level content will be viable and 'worth it'

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

7.- Because leves and FATEs are incredibly well done content everyone is happy to do for the octozillion time. Of course you dont have much of a choice when queue times become +1 hour.
As i said before already, adding anything ALONE that breaks the 2-1-1 ratio is a bad idea. But from the list of bad ideas, being that class alone a DPS is the worse idea.

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Just because you don't enjoy them does not mean they don't work. If people are in a 'rush' they will use all avenues. People who aren't will take a relaxed pace and pick and choose what content they use to level....but really, I already saw carby-gate in Aug/Sept and it was FINE. And again, yes there was an influx of new players=people playing all jobs....buuuut: until people starting gaining rank 30+ as their ACN, there was only 1 native healer in game at launch (CNJ) and it worked out. I queued (almost instant) as DRG the entire time....got my legacy character's DRG from level 17-42ish just in the first 2-3 days of launch. That's right DRG....during the carby bubble.

And don't think SE didn't watch how that worked....they knew that the only healers, even on legacy servers=CNJ/WHM at launch until people got SCH....and even then, SCH's were unlikely to level-sync down a dungeon at that time due to simply not needing too (the mainstory quests+your storyline dungeons=the exp you basically need to keep going with little need to re-run dungeons). So we DID already live though this levels 1-30....and the sky didn't fall.

Actually back then the instance most broken was AK....and that had nothing to do with class/job spreads and everything to do with poor instance server dedication/underdevelopment/underestimating how many players would be grinding that instance.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Everyone running around leveling Arcanist wasn't the end of the world. Everyone running around leveling Rouge wont be either.

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^Ultimately this.
In terms of DF queue times, look at launch when there were Arcanist galore vs now. Same situation will probably happen. Yes Q times will be longer but releasing a new tank/healing class or job as well wont help it too much. There will still be an insane number in comparison of people who would prefer NIN and the fact that it is a dps class is the major factor. Tanking/Healing takes responsibility that many dont care for. Q times for DPS would shoot up in both scenarios, its just one would be slightly more bearable.

And just like when DPS Q times were insane when beta4/early release/2.0 was released people we find other ways around it. Q'ing with a friend. Making full dungeon parties in PF (an option we did not have back then). As much as ppl hate it FATEs are a valid option. People doing low level roulettes will ease the burden as well. Not to mention Animus weapons require some of these lowbie dungeons so thats more people not playing RGE/NIN popping in to help out.

In terms of the economy, I dont see this as a problem. Giving crafters a bone is how I look at it. They will be the main ones able to push out weapons the fastest and HQ at that. And since there will be many FATE grinding this can become the attractive route for people wanting to properly gear their RGE/NINs. If people dont want to buy the weapons, there are class quests. Buying weapons off the MB is not the only answer and Im sure there is not going to be too much gear just for RGE/NIN that is pre 45 besides their weapons.

In terms of DF being unfriendly to DDs.....ha. funny. DF is unfriendly to all mistakes in general, not only DDs and this is mostly in higher level dungeons where mistakes are causing wipes. DDs are by far the easiest to get a pass in being subpar or even bad in a duty (unless its an end-game duty where there's a possible dps check). A bad tank/healer will get waaaay more criticism as its more obvious. Plus with this class being new, no one is going to know optimal dps rotations to really be able to judge them from a glance vs trying to figure out tanking with a new class and it being very apparent when you lose hate over and over again.

So many want this content, it would be a shame to push it back because of DF complications which there are work arounds for dealing with it (yes you have '3 simple arguments' but most of it is DF complications. There is nothing wrong with millions of RGE/NIN doing fates nor will the economy really be hurt by this. Even if their weapons are expensive on the MB, you dont need to buy them from there. Do your class/job quests. When it comes time for relic.....well lets just say this wouldn't be the first time a Relic weapon was overpriced.) Its not the perfect solution but id rather not wait more for this.

Most of us switching to Ninja were already DPS/DD to begin with. Some of us like me have been waiting for a thf scout rogue style class to come out since we started because that's what we always played before. I've been waiting for a stealth class to renew my sub. This probably will inflate queue times for some. But most of the levelers will probably just do FATE anyway and use tokens to hop into endgame(much to my dismay) I would rather see another role come out at the same time as Ninja but I also have seen how classes are played during and after release in many games and well... People will default back to their mains after trying or leveling the new job. Which probably wont take very long.

next time you have a thought.....just let it go.

People seem to forget that available dps-tank-healer job ratio don't really have any correlation to what players actually play.
Sure there will be some people that normally play tank or healer that will do rogue/ninja at first, but new rogues/ninjas will primarily be people that already play dps.
Same goes for when new tank/healer jobs will be added. It will primarily be existing tanks/healers that go to the new tank/healer jobs, with few dps players switching role.

I do not agree they should delay but i agree it will be a crazy amount of nothing but ninjas. My honest beliefs are that ninja won't be the only class released. I'm sure more classes will come but regardless ANYTHING CALLED NINJA will get played out. i'll be honest and admit i'll be one of em.

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Originally Posted by Silverharp

Hey, remember when that online video game petition actually caused something to happen?








Neither do I.

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Did not notice the word FORMAL in there? lol

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Originally Posted by Seif

Did not notice the word FORMAL in there? lol

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made me spit my drink, you glorious bastard.

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Originally Posted by Seif

Did not notice the word FORMAL in there? lol

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A thread on a forum is not a formal petition either.

By 2.4 there will be already enough solo levelling content to keep new rogues occupied while waiting for the long dungeon queues.

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

A thread on a forum is not a formal petition either.

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did you just hear a loud WOOOOSH?

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

next time you have a thought.....just let it go.

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I was going to make a more serious contribution, but your quote of Ron White made me laugh.

Okay, others have stated that the class/job ratio doesn't relate to what the players are actually playing. It's not that there are not enough tank/healing roles, it's more of a lack of players, well, playing them. Ranges can very from "boring" to "aesthetics" to "I'd rather not get the blame for something bad happening, even when it isn't my fault" or "Who wants to be patient with a new tank? Nobody. That's what I thought." You could fill this game to the brim with tank/healer roles and more players will flock to the damage-dealing roles.

Yeah. At first, we're probably going to see a lot of people at least unlocking Rogues once they are available. I know that I will, but I will most likely resume leveling Summoner/Scholar (after doing roulettes for tomes for my Black Mage/ Dragoon).

While I think the notion the delay content is rather silly, I can see the game turning into Naruto: The Game for a bit.

Did you even look at all the stuff the NIN has? New running animation, new jumping animation, awesome battle stance, stealth mechanics and, as far as Yoshi told us, really interesting gameplay in regards to the mantras. I'll be looking forward to leveling my PLD during that time, hearding groups of Ninjas around dungeons, everyone trying to outsneak the other.

They said they would increase level cap, when they add new jobs.
So, when they add Ninja, lv cap will go up...i'm guessing. So those that like to tank, will work on capping their tanks, those that like healing, will cap their healers.
There seems to be a lot of ppl that dont even like Ninja....and therefor won't even play it; only few ppl have capped all roles, and after lv cap goes up, it will take quite some time before ppl have all jobs capped.
I was in early access, and 90% of server population were playing Arcanist, but not many made it to Summoner, and even less ppl ended up capping it. So there's going to be lots of Rogues, to try out this new class, then only ppl that want it as main, or secondary, will cap it.
There's going to be loads of Rogues, in low level zones, but there's not going to be lots of end-game ninjas, in Coil/PrimalX..
Only few ppl will cap it first 2-3 days, so in addition to that there wont be many end-game Ninjas, the DF issue will only be a low-lv issue.
Also remember Arcanist again, the issues you're talking about, got resolved after a week or 2, since most ppl didnt like it. They don't need to push back Ninja, 3-4 months, for some issue that will resolve itself within a week or 2.
Why would demand for their weapons, be a reason for them to push it back, months? the only wep that will be in demand, would be pre-relic...and 90% of those that cap Ninja, won't bother with relic...because Atma->Novus+ is &¤#"¤ retarded. And only way someone would make relic, is if they gonna make Ninja, their main...and 90% of players, wont.
People don't like the stress of tanking/healing, so even if they added all roles at the same time, there would still be 10x more dps, than healer/tanks, and que time for dps, would still be long. This issue will never be resolved...ever...unless they create a tank that can aggro a lot through massive burst DPS, and also has massive damage mitigation (imagine PLD with flare spam)...yah, not gonna happen. Or PLD with WHM-overheal-cure-spam-aggro. Majority of tanks, are terrible; some can't even keep hate on one mob, much less 2 or more (I had to tell a PLD, to use flash, and swap target....in BrayHM, cause he was only single-target-combo 1 mob at a time) So yah, since tanking is so hard and stressful....not many want to play it.

While I am as upset as you over that the DPS queue when 2.4 hits the game will be longer than anything we've ever seen so do I still want class released now rather than later. People need more classes to level up. Just sad they did not focus on getting a new tank class out :/

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

snip

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Nope

/10char

Sorry, completely disagree with OP and hope his cause doesn't gain any momentum! :)

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

You can already see a million RGE/NIN running arround fields and FATEs

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If you look closely you can see like 50 ninjas participating in this fate.

http://i.imgur.com/LeTmn4x.jpg

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

While I am as upset as you over that the DPS queue when 2.4 hits the game will be longer than anything we've ever seen so do I still want class released now rather than later. People need more classes to level up. Just sad they did not focus on getting a new tank class out :/

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What is a new tank class going to do? People aren't just going to magically show up out of the wood works to play a tank class; those who have already decided to do so will typically remain that way. Sure, you may have an influx at the start just because people want to play the new class, but it isn't going to be a permanent solution. By your thought process, you would need to add a brand new tank class every 3 months just in order to keep the queues okay.

At the end of the day, adding a third tank class to the mix is not the solution to the problem. I don't understand why you people have such a hard time understanding that.

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Originally Posted by Nahara

SE could release a dozen new tanks and healers, but until the players decide they're willing to be tanks and healers, the problem will never go away.

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Actually if they made a tankclass that would turn us into a GIANT DRAGON everyone would play tank and ppl would be like "there're no dps in this game add more dps classes"

I'm struggling to understand how the majority of posters in this thread can be so frigging short-sighted. Who do they think is going to tank and heal the parties they plan on mass-levelling their ninjas in because by that time pretty much everyone will have those jobs levelled and have zero intention of playing them. The queue times are going to be sickening when everyone and their dog is sitting on their shiny new DD class and QQ'ing because they're facing 90+ minute waits for Sastasha onwards.

Maybe S-E will come up with an ingenious solution like rewarding players with a minion for tanking Coil 2 onwards...

Let me tell you something OP, healer and tank roles are too stressing, adding more tank or healer jobs wont fix the problem, if you want those ques fixed there's only one way to do it, lower the reliance on tanking mechanics to make the gameplay more comfortable for us, and design some badass tank and healer jobs, i know some pll would like to play a caster tank.

So, if I understand correctly, you don't want NIN to be released this early because it will take months to level up to 50.
You suggest to wait months for NIN to be released so you can level up to 50 early ?

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

I'm struggling to understand how the majority of posters in this thread can be so frigging short-sighted. Who do they think is going to tank and heal the parties they plan on mass-levelling their ninjas in because by that time pretty much everyone will have those jobs levelled and have zero intention of playing them. The queue times are going to be sickening when everyone and their dog is sitting on their shiny new DD class and QQ'ing because they're facing 90+ minute waits for Sastasha onwards.

Maybe S-E will come up with an ingenious solution like rewarding players with a minion for tanking Coil 2 onwards...

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Everybody is gonna fate spam to level their shiny new rogues because the dungeon wait times will be horrendous.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Everybody is gonna fate spam to level their shiny new rogues because the dungeon wait times will be horrendous.

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During the initial craze perhaps, but things will simmer down. The majority of rogues/ninjas will be max level players leveling alt classes, so they will always just flip back and forth to their main/preferred roles over time.