Please disable "Follow" inside duties.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

I hope one day I'd party with you cross server and wait for you to GM me, and I'll be more than happy to tell you what GM says later.

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<GM Imaginary> Hello, this is GM Imaginary. You have been reported for harassment due to keeping your party alive during a dungeon while being a healer. Please leave game forever. :cool:

I would love to see how fast someone reports a player for this to a GM and they themselves get In Trouble when they pull said persons activity logs to see they had some form of input either typing to an FC or LS or anything really. On top of that when the GM contacts me I will simply file a report of harassment for false accusation and whatever verbal abuse you decided to give me in the dungeon. ^.~

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Too bad SE decided that low level, guildhests, trials and scenario wouldn't get the group DR.

Oh btw, a healer just healing IS pulling his weight. His job is done. Him DPSing is carrying others a bit (not that it's bad or good or anything, just saying.)

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Yes, I agree, it really is too bad, but I just kind of avoid doing them for the reasons I listed for the most part. Sometimes I will join in and it'll be good... but when you do Garuda on trials and you wipe because 4DPS and a healer couldn't be bothered to move out of the big vortex-dealies... it's quite sad, and makes you not want to bother.

Also, I would have to disagree with a healer just healing being a healer pulling their weight, again that's the bare minimum. You might as well say DPS are pulling their weight by just doing a 1-2-3 rotation and not popping any cooldowns (or, like in the case of Tam-Tara where we don't have many cooldowns, auto-attacking is just fine - it's really not).

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Want to know a secret? You can "heal" all the dungeons before Bray, Qarn (yes, Qarn) and AK (and maybe some others, but haven't tried this seriously on them yet. Would think WP is also possible if you take it slower, but no one does that...Bray, SV and AV are definitely dungeons you have to be a healer in) without ever casting Physic, Cure, Adlo, Succor, or Lustrate as a SCH. This does assume your tank and DPS are at least competent and don't dive into AoEs.

I normally DPS instead of heal when I run Low-DR as a SCH.

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This. OP play the job and you would realize it.

I DPS on SCH (its currently 42) more than heal.

As a bard, they usually set the follow to me because they assume I will stay far from anywhere they will get hit. I lead them to the AoE over and over until they die. I'm not going to carry someone else through their roulette.

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Seems like a non-issue to me. A healers main purpose is to keep your party alive. Did your party stay alive? If yes, all good.

I don't cast a healing spell even once as a Scholar either when I'm in a low level dungeon. Here's my rotation:

Step 1: Cast Ruin.
Step 2: Repeat.

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so you don't cast dots to speed the process?

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Originally Posted by Heavy01Mk2

so you don't cast dots to speed the process?

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I forgot. ^.^
Seems like I can access Bio and Miasma at that level.

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

because some of us dont have four hands to type and move our chr with, so instead of falling behind because we decided to type something, we follow, and then type. thats just me tho.

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That's the worst excuse I've ever heard. Because you don't have four hands? Seriously? NO ONE has four hands yet many people seem to do it just fine.

Also, if you don't practice you'll never ever get better at it.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

As a bard, they usually set the follow to me because they assume I will stay far from anywhere they will get hit. I lead them to the AoE over and over until they die. I'm not going to carry someone else through their roulette.

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Well then I hope some nice Scholar dismisses their pet and refuse to heal you. I mean, why should they carry you through your roulette?
You could ask the Paladin to heal anyway, I mean they can cross class skill Cure, and ya'll know what a travesty it is to not use all of your available abilities. ^.-

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Let's compare this to some glorious tanks and DPS you run into in those low level dungeons:

"Impulse Drive! Impulse Drive! Impulse Drive!"
"Overpower! Overpower! Overpower!"

Man, I sure am glad they can't slack off.

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overpower builds enmity quickly and its good if you lose mobs, I know there's some dumbasses that only spam overpower and don't do their rotations but that's not the majority. If enemies aren't running around doing the monster mash then tank isn't slacking. Get some experience before you critize.

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Originally Posted by Heavy01Mk2

overpower builds enmity quickly and its good if you lose mobs, I know there's some dumbasses that only spam overpower and don't do their rotations but that's not the majority. If enemies aren't running around doing the monster mash then tank isn't slacking. Get some experience before you critize.

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It's not critique, it's to point out how ridiculously easy doing a dungeon like Tam-Tara can be. If a Scholar can manage by Summoning Eos, the tanks job mashing the Overpower button isn't that much more of an effort to be worthy a several page rant of their so called "laziness."

Also the aforementioned Scholars are most likely not in the majority, either. I've never met one.

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Well then I hope some nice Scholar dismisses their pet and refuse to heal you. I mean, why should they carry you through your roulette?
You could ask the Paladin to heal anyway, I mean they can cross class skill Cure, and ya'll know what a travesty it is to not use all of your available abilities. ^.-

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I think you misinterpret how I use carry? Nowhere does it say I'm required to let you go AFK by allowing you to follow me. If I have to actively earn my tomes, so do the other 3 people in the party.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

i don't see the problem sch only needs eos to do all the work you didn't die what's the problem? the sch didn't dps? ha good one.

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Holy crap FIFTEEN people gave this comment a like? Remind me the next time that I tank a duty with you to just spam flash on every pull and nothing else. With your logic my job as a tank is to not DPS either. Then wait one minute in between pulls to regain MP so I can only flash spam on the next pull too. I won't lose hate so what's the problem?

This game going to die before it even hits the first expansion if players that agree with that mentality continue spreading their lazy ways around this community.

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Originally Posted by Mandudez

Holy crap FIFTEEN people gave this comment a like? Remind me the next time that I tank a duty with you to just spam flash on every pull and nothing else. With your logic my job as a tank is to not DPS either. Then wait one minute in between pulls to regain MP so I can only flash spam on the next pull too. I won't lose hate so what's the problem?

This game going to die before it even hits the first expansion if players that agree with that mentality continue spreading their lazy ways around this community.

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While I always DPS in low level dungeons I have no issue with healers that only heal or tanks that only tank. Yes, it would be more optimal if both tank and healer dished out some damage to speed things up when they have their main priorities under control, but it's not strictly required.

Uuuuuuuuuugh. Fine. Have fun discussing how horrible it is that a healer heals.

#firstworldproblems

Bye~

I asked my Eos whe she thinks of all this, she replied she's happy to be useful for a full run because every time I cast heal, she thinks she's not doing her job and gets hurt inside.
The Eos is happy! The party succeed! This is a win-win situation!!!

While it's "rude" for the scholar to do this, if you cleared the dungeon fine then who cares?
When I tank I'm busy trying to figure out what to pull next, not looking at what my healer is doing. As long as my HP bar is full he can be dancing the manderville the whole time for all I care.

If you care that much you can try to
1. Pull 3 mobs, healer looking bored?
2. Pull 3 more mobs, healer still standing picking his nose?
3. Hell just pull every mob until the boss like it's a brayflox speedrun ＼(^o^)／

I had a Sastasha once where on the first pack of mobs the conjurer didn't heal me a single time, and I died twice. Not sure if he was an idiot, afker or a bot but I just quit right then and there. Be glad you didn't run into someone like that.

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Uuuuuuuuuugh. Fine. Have fun discussing how horrible it is that a healer heals.

#firstworldproblems

Bye~

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Yeah firstworldproblems indeed.

When a healer starts to go Cleric Stance and deal some damage, people take it as a given.

No wonder some people forgot to be appreciative. A healer that just heals and ensure that no one dies in a party is doing his/her job. A healer that deals damage on top of that is going the for the extra mile and I'd be appreciative of that but I never ask of them. But when they do, and do a good job, I give them commendations. I think there are a lot of people do understand this too - I receive 2-4 commendations as a DPSing WHM depending on party size. But it is getting disgusting that people start to expect everything that was supposed to be an extra as a given.. pfftch.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Yeah firstworldproblems indeed.

When a healer starts to go Cleric Stance and deal some damage, people take it as a given.

No wonder some people forgot to be appreciative. A healer that just heals and ensure that no one dies in a party is doing his/her job. A healer that deals damage on top of that is going the for the extra mile and I'd be appreciative of that but I never ask of them. But when they do, and do a good job, I give them commendations. I think there are a lot of people do understand this too - I receive 2-4 commendations as a DPSing WHM depending on party size. But it is getting disgusting that people start to expect everything that was supposed to be an extra as a given.. pfftch.

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FFXIV player mentality in a nutshell.

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

3. Hell just pull every mob until the boss like it's a brayflox speedrun ＼(^o^)／

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Did that on copperbell in the "3 dungeons only" era of DR low level. I pulled all mobs (including the extras) from 1st lift to 1st boss because the healer said he was bored.

If I ever understand one day how we survived back then, I'll probably say "holy shit that was epic !!". xD

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Originally Posted by Alukah

While I always DPS in low level dungeons I have no issue with healers that only heal or tanks that only tank. Yes, it would be more optimal if both tank and healer dished out some damage to speed things up when they have their main priorities under control, but it's not strictly required.

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I just think that it is unfair to expect some members in the party to be active and participating in the dungeon the entire time while others get to lounge back and take it easy. That is just being horribly lazy and a waste of everyone's time. If everyone played their roles minimally then you'd see dungeons taking 2-3x longer than normal to complete for no reason other than sheer laziness.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Yeah firstworldproblems indeed.

When a healer starts to go Cleric Stance and deal some damage, people take it as a given.

No wonder some people forgot to be appreciative. A healer that just heals and ensure that no one dies in a party is doing his/her job. A healer that deals damage on top of that is going the for the extra mile and I'd be appreciative of that but I never ask of them. But when they do, and do a good job, I give them commendations. I think there are a lot of people do understand this too - I receive 2-4 commendations as a DPSing WHM depending on party size. But it is getting disgusting that people start to expect everything that was supposed to be an extra as a given.. pfftch.

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Everything pre-50 is a joke to heal. Even some of the 50 stuff is rather easy now. To prove this point I never unlocked WHM and not a single person died when leveling to 50.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Did that on copperbell in the "3 dungeons only" era of DR low level. I pulled all mobs (including the extras) from 1st lift to 1st boss because the healer said he was bored.

If I ever understand one day how we survived back then, I'll probably say "holy shit that was epic !!". xD

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See! A great solution to this whole thread's problem!

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Originally Posted by Darki

... Why should anyone be able to use follow and go afk and still get credit? ...

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Why do you care how others get credit? How do you know they are AFK? And if they are and everyone still cleared the dungeon without wipes is it do bad? You rather be stuck waiting for the queue to pop? What is the average wait time for DPS anyways? Would you rather the healer just quit like some tanks when they get Tamtara for the nth time and they are bored of it?

Undoubted it would be better if the healer actually did more than just have a fairy around, but why is it people are always so interested in telling other people how to play, even when things are working?

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Originally Posted by Foo01

even when things are working?

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If this was true then this thread wouldn't exist.

Things aren't working. You're just trying to convince everyone they are. If /follow makes it easier for people to AFK in dungeons then it is abusable and it is a problem. Not everything comes down to telling people how to play, and I don't know how you can consider it "playing" when this thread was started about people AFKing in dungeons. Last I checked and AFK player ISN'T playing at all.

In your zeal to "not tell people how to play" you're kind of ignoring the entire point of the post.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

... In your zeal to "not tell people how to play" you're kind of ignoring the entire point of the post.

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If I am the tank, and I also have an SCH on another account, and put the SCH on follow and I play the tank, is that so wrong? The tank now has healing capability too and a fairy attached. Can't people with two account do that? I am not missing the point of the post.

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Originally Posted by Mandudez

I just think that it is unfair to expect some members in the party to be active and participating in the dungeon the entire time while others get to lounge back and take it easy. That is just being horribly lazy and a waste of everyone's time. If everyone played their roles minimally then you'd see dungeons taking 2-3x longer than normal to complete for no reason other than sheer laziness.

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If the fairy is keeping people alive, then time isn't wasted. The dps are still dpsing, the tank is still tanking. The healer can dmg as well of course, but that's time gained from someone doing something extra outside of their role. Not time wasted. Not being horribly lazy either. If the fairy can heal the healer can get something done IRL while getting the tomestones from the run or getting exp if they're leveling. That's efficient and effective.

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

If the fairy is keeping people alive, then time isn't wasted. The dps are still dpsing, the tank is still tanking. The healer can dmg as well of course, but that's time gained from someone doing something extra outside of their role. Not time wasted. Not being horribly lazy either. If the fairy can heal the healer can get something done IRL while getting the tomestones from the run or getting exp if they're leveling. That's efficient and effective.

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Man people who think like this would be lost in a game that had proper Clerics.

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

That's efficient and effective.

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Yeah for you, not for the other three people that have to slag through a longer boring run while you leech off their work so you can Alt-tab and do stuff that I'm sure they wish to do too. I'm honestly surprised so many people actually support this, if you actually do this you're no different than low-lvl an pvp bots imo and I would vote kick you without question. Fortunately I main healer so I've never had the luxury of dealing with a SCH follow bot, but if they're anything like bard/ tank bots I've had to deal with I can understand why OP is annoyed.

I start pulling everything in the dungeon when that happens then blame the healer for not healing me if we wipe and its not like they can say anything since they weren't healing me. Eos is only 1/2 of your healing as SCH so if only your pet is healing me and you are only doing half your work and in a team environment that's just not gonna cut it.

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Originally Posted by Manuka

Yeah for you, not for the other three people that have to slag through a longer boring run while you leech off their work so you can Alt-tab and do stuff that I'm sure they wish to do too. I'm honestly surprised so many people actually support this, if you actually do this you're no different than low-lvl an pvp bots imo and I would vote kick you without question. Fortunately I main healer so I've never had the luxury of dealing with a SCH follow bot, but if they're anything like bard/ tank bots I've had to deal with I can understand why OP is annoyed.

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If I can be lazy and do nothing while still being able to do my job 100% (healing) then you can bet your ass that I'll do just that.

I'm guilty of doing lower level dungeons on sch and letting Eos and Selene do all the work. I don't regret it.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

I start pulling everything in the dungeon when that happens then blame the healer for not healing me if we wipe and its not like they can say anything since they weren't healing me. Eos is only 1/2 of your healing as SCH so if only your pet is healing me and you are only doing half your work and in a team environment that's just not gonna cut it.

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It's will most definitely be your fault if you pull everything and die; lazy SCH or not. And the fact that you'd be willing sacrifice your party because your healer isn't DPSing just makes you seem petty.

What kind of amazing low level duty roulette groups are you people getting that you can just kick back and let Eos heal through every single thing? Maybe if you and everyone else in the group is overgeared... I can't be the only healer who ends up with ilvl 25 tanks in Stone Vigil and DPS who eat AoEs like candy... Eos is great, but she can only do so much when faced with stuff like that.

I kind of feel like I should apologize for all the lazy healers present in this thread... I'm a scholar who DPSes! We don't all go AFK!

tbh tho, most of the time the scrublets trying to piss on a healer for not dps'ing are usually the same scrublets that stand in every AOE despite the big flashing red line that screams "OMFG DONT STAND HERE NOOB" then complain when i was dps'ing and not healing their badness

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Originally Posted by Virgil

FFXIV player mentality in a nutshell.

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Well, I guess it's not our first day here, sadly.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

If I can be lazy and do nothing while still being able to do my job 100% (healing) then you can bet your ass that I'll do just that.

I'm guilty of doing lower level dungeons on sch and letting Eos and Selene do all the work. I don't regret it.

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So, selfish then. At least you're honest about it.

If you expect me to go all out and carry you with both heals and DPS for the sake of "efficiency", you'd better unequip your job crystals and put in cure, physick, stoneskin, provoke, etc as your cross class skills too.

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Originally Posted by hours

If you expect me to go all out and carry you with both heals and DPS for the sake of "efficiency", you'd better unequip your job crystals and put in cure, physick, stoneskin, provoke, etc as your cross class skills too.

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Exactly. Like what I said earlier, healer's job icon is green. It's design to HEAL. Anything else is a bonus and people should learn to appreciate it instead if that stupid entitled attitude.

If that green icon needs to something out of it's designed routine, then all the rest better put in something extra too. For the sake of efficiency right? Tanks please off your tank stance and deal more DPS please. DPS please self heal from time to time, don't waste your MP so your green icon team mate can continue to DPS and heal the blue icon not on tank stance a little more.

Don't say it's not do-able thou. Defiance is not really needed outside coil. My WAR is i84 cos I am using i70 DPS accessories. Holding single target and AoE hate easily. There are a few times I've tanked dungeons like Haukke Manor HM with a Sword Oath PLD till the last boss before realizing that I wasn't on Shield Oath, I told the team and every one was lol'n cos no one noticed a difference.

It has nothing to do with DPS but the fact you're basically a bot at that point. Do you really believe SE intended for a single class to afk follow an entire instance? It's obviously an oversight because even a WHM has to be at the keyboard to cure, esuna, regen, whatever but a SCH (or SUM for that matter) doesn't have to lift a finger, yet complete the instance unscathed? I don't agree with OP's suggestion to remove follow but I do believe the fairies heal potency should get chunked significantly more when level synced, she shouldn't be able to solo heal low lvl content to the extent she does now.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

It's will most definitely be your fault if you pull everything and die; lazy SCH or not. And the fact that you'd be willing sacrifice your party because your healer isn't DPSing just makes you seem petty.

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Might be petty, but I'd probably commend him. :^)

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

If the fairy is keeping people alive, then time isn't wasted. The dps are still dpsing, the tank is still tanking. The healer can dmg as well of course, but that's time gained from someone doing something extra outside of their role. Not time wasted. Not being horribly lazy either. If the fairy can heal the healer can get something done IRL while getting the tomestones from the run or getting exp if they're leveling. That's efficient and effective.

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Again, this is completely unfair to the rest of the party. Can the tank do something else IRL? NO Can the dps do something else IRL? NO The faster they get the dungeon done the sooner they can focus 100% on that IRL crap btw...logic escapes you.