Shocked at the reduction in mage damage, quadruple mp cost, and lowered resources

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Originally Posted by MerkinValefor

you guys are bullshit if you think every nm in game should take a group. I guess you all never farmed o kotes or leaping boots by yourself. Only high tier nm should require a pt to kill, if a r 50 mage cannot solo a mob that drops a r 25 wep then there is a problem. I just cant wait for all the dumb ass DD to start dieing because we only have 1 class that can heal and its spells cost so much. I bet they didn't adjust the aoes of mobs at all which will be fun for conjs. Eventually people who have NEVER even touched a mage class will learn because they have to spend all their time looking for a conj to do anything, and because they will always be dead from eating aoes and not being conscience of the mages in pt..

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Considering mages were tanking before... I don't see them die because someone couldn't conserve MP.

Tanks still have a crap load of defensive skills that can finally be put to use.

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Originally Posted by Andros

Then quit trying to solo That NM lol. Its obv higher lvl then you. Go level up.

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It's one of the easiest lower level NMs I've fought. Had a few dogable skills (which is obviously a pain in the ass due to playing from eastern America, distance latency makes me always get hit unless I move within 2 seconds of it readying the skill, which didn't happen 80% of the time due to being locked in place when using my own skills. Wouldn't have been a problem if I lived in Japan!).

I got it to around 30% before I died after running out of MP. And yes, this is with second wind and bloodbath.


But hey, I just tested fighting a Ixali Fencer (level 41 I think) as my Marauder (level 29). I managed to kill it with only 2 cures and 1 sacrifice being needed.. although I almost died (36 hp) because my attack delay is FOUR POINT TWO SECONDS and I missed 4 times in a row. Great job, auto attack.. Maybe the massive nerf to heals won't turn out so bad..

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Originally Posted by DAOWAce

It's one of the easiest lower level NMs I've fought. Had a few dogable skills (which is obviously a pain in the ass due to playing from eastern America, distance latency makes me always get hit unless I move within 2 seconds of it readying the skill, which didn't happen 80% of the time due to being locked in place when using my own skills. Wouldn't have been a problem if I lived in Japan!).

I got it to around 30% before I died after running out of MP. And yes, this is with second wind and bloodbath.


But hey, I just tested fighting a Ixali Fencer (level 41 I think) as my Marauder (level 29). I managed to kill it with only 2 cures and 1 sacrifice being needed.. although I almost died (36 hp) because my attack delay is FOUR POINT TWO SECONDS and I missed 4 times in a row. Great job, auto attack..

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you're terrible then. Get more ACC and more dex. Also, get a weapon that is your rank. Use correct gear. As far as not being able to solo...good. You shouldn't be able to solo NMs. They are NMs for a reason.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Then they should have made a healer class. Now I'm going to be labeled as one of the non-healer Conjurers and I'll be sitting around LFP. Healing was never an issue for any mage, and no mage was ever defined as a healer. You're absolutely right that it's no fun to spam one spell.. Now you aren't going to be spamming it, you're going to be waiting to press Curaga II since you're only going to be able to cast it 7 times. Going to be spending a lot of time in passive mode, doing nothing, instead of being what a mage was described as on finalfantasyxiv.com

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You're going to make me cry, bro.

I love being main healer. I was looking forward to CON being transformed into WHM (with the Job System, not before it), but this is just unacceptable. You know, when I do 8-man versus Great Buffalo I often run out of MP, but it's because I'm actually doing a lot of shit. I'm curing. I'm DOT spamming. I'm interactive in setting up BRs. We typically have a main healer and then some "support" mages doing what I just described. Now honestly I'm going to be Curing and waiting for MP. I don't think I can go back to that. I don't want it to be like XI. I liked my "all-around" mage and I liked being active and aggressive in difficult fights.

I may have to main Gladiator, even though I do truly love healer and especially the way Conjurer was (until today) so incredibly versatile. Yes, it may get fixed in the future. "Passive casting" and "the Job System" may fix mages to be better, but what in the meantime?! I have been waiting so goddamn long to play some fun content in this game on the job I like (CON) and now it's like a broken toy. I look at it and wonder if they make a specialized glue to put it back together, and how much it will cost me.

I don't feel like I'm trolling or even being a cry baby. I think most people who enjoyed Conjurer (not so much Solo THM, because the "Emulate" nerf is totally fine with me, but Sacrifice nerf not so much since I'd use them on Conjurer) really understand where I'm coming from and legitimize how I feel about it.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

What does that mean, spit take?

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YouTube video on the Art of the Spit Take.

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And lol @ people saying I want easy mode when I'd rather be playing Demon's Souls

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I keep hearing that the 2nd is going to be harder than the first one. So I guess I'll just spawn in a die seconds later, instead of it taking me whole minutes to die in the last one. :)

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Originally Posted by Dubont

read, again, what I said. Those NMs are no lower than level 40. You're supposed to group up to kill them. Do you not remember, in FFXI, that sometimes mobs that even level 75's couldn't solo would drop gear for level 50's?

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Still doesnt change the fact that lower levels will have a much lower chance of getting their gear now because a mob that could be duoed by 2 lvl 35 will now be almost impossible or take much longer. And most of those level 50 items would be so superior stated that the use would extend to 75, you were never supposed to have some of those pieces on your first job that hit lvl 50, pieces like okotes you would get near the appropriate level and wear for a while but a speed belt was something you got after you had your first 75 not the same thing. These are the lowest nms in the game and were made for players 25+ (25 on the lower weapons). These new mp costs makes a large portion of low ranking players unable to get their piece. I personally dont care i have enough to make a group and kill the stuff, but shutting off a portion of your game to lower ranking players is not a good idea.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

yes, i am quite upset with the ignorance of this update with regards to the way both mages were just made to be less fun to play. i mean why would anyone play a game to have fun anyways?

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Oh, darkstarwhatever... you try so hard, but really are just a one trick pony.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

read, again, what I said. Those NMs are no lower than level 40. You're supposed to group up to kill them. Do you not remember, in FFXI, that sometimes mobs that even level 75's couldn't solo would drop gear for level 50's?

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lol if you think those nms are difficult. They are only difficult now because mp burns so fast. Not because of some cool ability that you have to watch out for or %hp tactic to watch for.

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Originally Posted by MerkinValefor

Still doesnt change the fact that lower levels will have a much lower chance of getting their gear now because a mob that could be duoed by 2 lvl 35 will now be almost impossible or take much longer. And most of those level 50 items would be so superior stated that the use would extend to 75, you were never supposed to have some of those pieces on your first job that hit lvl 50, pieces like okotes you would get near the appropriate level and wear for a while but a speed belt was something you got after you had your first 75 not the same thing. These are the lowest nms in the game and were made for players 25+ (25 on the lower weapons). These new mp costs makes a large portion of low ranking players unable to get their piece. I personally dont care i have enough to make a group and kill the stuff, but shutting off a portion of your game to lower ranking players is not a good idea.

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the point of NMs is to require good party play by persons around that level. For those 50gear nms that the 75 players couldn't solo, 3 50s could trio it. So, maybe, JUST MAYBE, instead of being anti-social and trying to solo everything in a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME, you should try making a party of say...5-8 players and going after the gear that you want. This game is getting away from being completely soloable and I love it for that. A Final Fantasy MMORPG should never be soloable. Why? 1) It's a MMORPG 2) It's a Final Fantasy and there has been absolutely 0 FF games where you didn't have a party =)

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yes, i am quite upset with the ignorance of this update with regards to the way both mages were just made to be less fun to play. i mean why would anyone play a game to have fun anyways?

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ignorant people want mindless gameplay other games mages were always more of a challenge to play you have to keep people alive & keep crowd control. now you have to think a little and now its ignorant??

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Originally Posted by indira

ignorant people want mindless gameplay other games mages were always more of a challenge to play you have to keep people alive & keep crowd control. now you have to think a little and now its ignorant??

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ignore darkstar...he's just butthurt because his favorite class is no longer OP and mages now take a little bit of skill to play.

Siphon MP
Siphon MP II Effects only a single target

loldodore

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Originally Posted by Dubont;244321[B

]the point of NMs is to require good party play by persons around that level.[/B] For those 50gear nms that the 75 players couldn't solo, 3 50s could trio it. So, maybe, JUST MAYBE, instead of being anti-social and trying to solo everything in a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME, you should try making a party of say...5-8 players and going after the gear that you want. This game is getting away from being completely soloable and I love it for that. A Final Fantasy MMORPG should never be soloable. Why? 1) It's a MMORPG 2) It's a Final Fantasy and there has been absolutely 0 FF games where you didn't have a party =)

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There is our problem, i would argue that nms are there to offer a way for a player to obtain a rare item that would not be obtainable any other way. Sure some nms should require a group thats why i love ff, i played xi for years so dont go on some bullshit rant about this is a MMO play with people. I love grouping but not all nms should take 5-8 ppl especially since the community is so shit right now. If you only think nms are there to provide a target for pts to kill then why give a item drop? Shouldn't the fun of killing the nm with a group be the reward? If you just want to group to fight o get some 50s and kill 75 drakes, takes a lot of party play and are much more difficult than any nm in game. Nms are to get gear not just force party play.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

ignore darkstar...he's just butthurt because his favorite class is no longer OP and mages now take a little bit of skill to play.

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And your just being a douche because your class got OP on this patch.

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Originally Posted by Balbanes

Oh, darkstarwhatever... you try so hard, but really are just a one trick pony.

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oh wow completely hurt my feelings here. i can see why tanaka didn't feel the forums would be beneficial to the game.

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Originally Posted by indira

ignorant people want mindless gameplay other games mages were always more of a challenge to play you have to keep people alive & keep crowd control. now you have to think a little and now its ignorant??

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no what is ignorant it now takes around 6 heals during a battle to run out of mp. the standing with your wand put away to conserve mp instead of actually, ya know, being involved in the battle is ignorant.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

ignore darkstar...he's just butthurt because his favorite class is no longer OP and mages now take a little bit of skill to play.

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ignore me all you want. put me on your blacklist if you want as well. i could care less what you have to say anyways.

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Originally Posted by MerkinValefor

And your just being a douche because your class got OP on this patch.

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no he's been the same way since the forums opened.

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Originally Posted by MerkinValefor

There is our problem, i would argue that nms are there to offer a way for a player to obtain a rare item that would not be obtainable any other way. Sure some nms should require a group thats why i love ff, i played xi for years so dont go on some bullshit rant about this is a MMO play with people. I love grouping but not all nms should take 5-8 ppl especially since the community is so shit right now. If you only think nms are there to provide a target for pts to kill then why give a item drop? Shouldn't the fun of killing the nm with a group be the reward? If you just want to group to fight o get some 50s and kill 75 drakes, takes a lot of party play and are much more difficult than any nm in game. Nms are to get gear not just force party play.

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you aren't forced to use a party because you aren't forced to fight that NM. You can level more and kill that NM. If you want OP gear at an early level, you shouldn't be able to solo it. The little sheep that drops the CON body is what..level 43? You shouldn't be able to solo it at level 30. You can (could) trio it at level 35. NMs are working as intended, just like in EVERY OTHER GAME. In WoW, a level 10 NM took quite a bit of skill to kill at level 15 for me and that was with quite a bit of luck, some zoning and a lot of health popping. Lower level NMs will be introduced eventually. You HAVE to keep in mind that the "low level" NMs that you keep referring to are actually, according to SE, MID-TIER NMs.

tl;dr: All games have NMs like this. stop the senseless QQ.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

you're terrible then. Get more ACC and more dex. Also, get a weapon that is your rank. Use correct gear. As far as not being able to solo...good. You shouldn't be able to solo NMs. They are NMs for a reason.

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You really are ignorant, aren't you? No sense trying to respond to your post..

People were complaining about Thau and Conj being overpowered, now they've been toned down and balanced out a bit, and there are still complaints? What exactly did the select mages complaining want?

These nms are pussy. They will always be pussy. The only thing that makes the nm a group up thing now is the mp sink they will be, not the fact that they are difficult. They have been annoying but not difficult, ooo teleport, ooo drain your hp, annoying not difficult. Adding mp sink doesn't add strategy. No one thought these nms should be grouped because they REQUIRE NO STRATEGY. I grouped on nms just to spam through them cause the drop rate sucked, not because they were hard. You can toot party all you want, we all want it if we played xi, but i don't want a half ass you have to party because everything is a god damn mp sink, I want "we have to party because this requires serious strategy", all strategy in xi wasn't "resting after cures". These nms now for low level people (who they are meant to be done by rank 25-35s) the only strategy will be "get an OP ass conj or two, and we'll zerg it down hopefully before he/she runs out of mp."

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Originally Posted by MerkinValefor

And your just being a douche because your class got OP on this patch.

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I'm so tired of this..HOW is CON OP now? Their dmg sucks, they can't solo for crap and now their cures use more MP. They are also auto locked into party healer. How is that OP? At least THM got a freaking dmg buff, unlike CON. Also, I don't like CON. I only played CON because it was the closest to BLM that we had, but now that it is heal-mule, I can't stand it.

CON isn't OP and if you think it is just because it has it's own unique skills, then so is every other class because EVERY class has unique skills. Derp.

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Originally Posted by DAOWAce

You really are ignorant, aren't you? No sense trying to respond to your post..

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how am I ignorant? I obviously know more than you do about the game and it shows with your lolr29. Auto attack is fine and if you're missing, which you are, then you don't have optimized gear which means you are playing incorrectly.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

I'm so tired of this..HOW is CON OP now? Their dmg sucks, they can't solo for crap and now their cures use more MP. They are also auto locked into party healer. How is that OP? At least THM got a freaking dmg buff, unlike CON. Also, I don't like CON. I only played CON because it was the closest to BLM that we had, but now that it is heal-mule, I can't stand it.

CON isn't OP and if you think it is just because it has it's own unique skills, then so is every other class because EVERY class has unique skills. Derp.

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How is Conj op? You are now the sole healer, you have all the important raises, you have ele nukes and dots, almost all buffs are native to conj, and you have the most unique spells. You can still equip all thm spells which leaves no use for thm at all. If people want a dd they would prob just grab a rng over thm. And its not soo much that the made conj op as that they made it the only viable mage now. If they had give some unique abilities or spells to thm there wouldnt be a problem. Now you must have a conj to do anything because it is the healing/buffing/raising/debuffing job while thm can dd and debuff. Conj can now fill every roll. THM has shadowseer as its only unique ability while conj has raise 2, rebirth, curaga, curaga II, so it is in no way equal.

Thaumaturge will be getting more unique skills, I assure you. Everyone knows this is the base battle system patch. Adjustments will be ongoing.

Also as far as soloing goes: Do guildleves or sidequests.

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Originally Posted by MerkinValefor

How is Conj op? You are now the sole healer, you have all the important raises, you have ele nukes and dots, almost all buffs are native to conj, and you have the most unique spells. You can still equip all thm spells which leaves no use for thm at all. If people want a dd they would prob just grab a rng over thm. And its not soo much that the made conj op as that they made it the only viable mage now. If they had give some unique abilities or spells to thm there wouldnt be a problem. Now you must have a conj to do anything because it is the healing/buffing/raising/debuffing job while thm can dd and debuff. Conj can now fill every roll. THM has shadowseer as its only unique ability while conj has raise 2, rebirth, curaga, curaga II, so it is in no way equal.

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you must not use other class skills on your GLA very much...ok this is how CON ISN'T OP.

1) They get the main buffs...they are the healer, why shouldn't they?
2) They get all of the good raises and heals...they are the healer, why shouldn't they?
3) CON can't effectively use THM debuffs due to affinity. Con's THM affinity = 0. This means that a CON's thm spell is NOWHERE near as effective as a THM's thm spell
4) They have unique skills...so does every class...
5) Their nukes do terrible terrible dmg and they did not receive a buff while THM's spells DID receive a buff.

Here's how THM isn't completely useless

1) THM still has 100% affinity with THM spells so their DoTs, Debuffs and nukes will be better than if used on CON
2) THM isn't gimped into being main heal so they can actually use their skills rather than having to save MP for healing
3) THM got a potency buff on their burst dmg spells.
4) THM can still heal single targets which make ensures that they are not useless as they can keep an eye on the tank while the CON watches everyone else.
5) THM still has a raise which will be very effective in parties as CON's new raises are a high MP cost and have a very large cooldown (30mins..really?)

CON is the new WHM, THM is the new BLM

Its still in no way smart to not change both mages at the same time so one side wouldn't feel so awful. Honestly we told them we didn't like the idea of class changes coming in waves, this is what it creates discontent. THM is useless unless its endgame. Its just like BLM in XI come to endgame but no one gives a *** about you otherwise. If you don't give thm more unique abilities it just becomes nothing better than a sub class. You don't need to even play as a thm for know this ***, you just have to think.

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

Thaumaturge will be getting more unique skills, I assure you. Everyone knows this is the base battle system patch. Adjustments will be ongoing.

Also as far as soloing goes: Do guildleves or sidequests.

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totally good point, and it wont matter if conj has all this if they can give thm something to make it needed as much as a job that can raise and heal other than being a dd.

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Originally Posted by MerkinValefor

totally good point, and it wont matter if conj has all this if they can give thm something to make it needed as much as a job that can raise and heal other than being a dd.

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Well isnt Thaumaturge supposed to be based around Astral and Umbral spells, as well as cone spells...so i'd think they should get more damage over time/debuff/buff skills. And of course Dark and Holy damage spells.

I see the merit in OP's post.

try to remember all these changes are the base for future 'jobs' , and the 'jobs' are supposedly more optimal for party play. this is just speculation, but if they added a job trait to cut mp cost down, imagine how many heals the old con/thm can cast, maybe more than enough to just watch your drama on tv while spamming a single button to survive. 1.18 seems more like a prelude to the coming patches, which will complete the basic of the game before the devs move on to expand the contents.

Man some of you are really getting carried away. My OP was in no way about party play vs. solo play, easy vs. hard, or one class versus another. The issue at hand is the dev team significantly changing the type of role we play with our characters without giving us any other options. To fix it, they need to open the job system to Conjurers to choose between Black Mage and White Mage at the very least.

Also Dubont, you are in the exact same boat as me; I don't know why you're trying to fight me on my points. You leveled Conjurer for elemental magic and not curing, and your Thaumaturge is low level just like mine. If you didn't nit pick my points you'd see that we both want the same thing - Black Mage, and to not be a heal mule.

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Originally Posted by Roll

Well then equip Siphon MP, Siphon MP II, Stygian Spikes II, use Tranquility/Exaltation. There's still something you can do about MP recovery. Before this patch I rarely had to use MP recovery skills/spells/abilities. You just have to use your MP smarter.

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Roll this isn't gonna work, because I of course used this strategy on NMs before this patch, when cure wasn't quadrupled in cost. There's no way this is gonna happen now. There were a lot of hard solos where you would heal yourself for around one hit's worth of damage, but not if it takes up more than a a tenth of your MP per hit.

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Originally Posted by Shai

I love being main healer. I was looking forward to CON being transformed into WHM (with the Job System, not before it), but this is just unacceptable. You know, when I do 8-man versus Great Buffalo I often run out of MP, but it's because I'm actually doing a lot of shit. I'm curing. I'm DOT spamming. I'm interactive in setting up BRs. We typically have a main healer and then some "support" mages doing what I just described. Now honestly I'm going to be Curing and waiting for MP. I don't think I can go back to that. I don't want it to be like XI. I liked my "all-around" mage and I liked being active and aggressive in difficult fights.

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This is a great post. You loved being a White Mage type character but with the ability to contribute beyond that strict role. Too bad the dev team saw the need to lock you in to a strict role. I agree with you, that kind of gameplay was exhilarating. It's really a shame that they are going to dumb down the gameplay in a feeble grasp of solidarity.

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Originally Posted by VydarrTyr

YouTube video on the Art of the Spit Take.
I keep hearing that the 2nd is going to be harder than the first one. So I guess I'll just spawn in a die seconds later, instead of it taking me whole minutes to die in the last one. :)

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I'm still not getting the whole spit take thing. It's spitting on someone or being spit on? Or just the element of surprise? lol

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Originally Posted by Dubont

the point of NMs is to require good party play by persons around that level.

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Negative dude. There is no rule. You pulled that out of your ass, and it should probably go right back in your ass. The reason I can think of that this is not desirable is that just like in FFXI, no one wants to do these NMs after the first 5 minutes. None of these noobs are going to find a group of people willing to go camp these things for 5+ hours. I think it's far cooler if these NMs are more like an extremely challenging solo fight. That's how I did it many times. Soloing by myself for hours. I soloed Sirocco for 25 minutes a pop on my 30s or 40s ish Conjurer, and it was very challenging. But fun too. The dev team has eliminated that thrilling gameplay now.. that was hard, a party kill would be easy.

You've been talking a lot about easy mode but soloing an NM is not easy.. there's no reraise and nothing to cover your ass if anything goes wrong.

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Originally Posted by indira

ignorant people want mindless gameplay other games mages were always more of a challenge to play you have to keep people alive & keep crowd control. now you have to think a little and now its ignorant??

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Originally Posted by Dubont

ignore darkstar...he's just butthurt because his favorite class is no longer OP and mages now take a little bit of skill to play.

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Dude you and indira have got this backwards.. you aren't thinking it through. You are thinking LESS with cure spells that cost 130 MP out of 800MP @ R50. It takes LESS skill to cast cure 7 times than to do 30 or 40 different actions during a fight. That should be obvious to you. What is there to think about when your options are limited to cast cure X number of times??

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

People were complaining about Thau and Conj being overpowered, now they've been toned down and balanced out a bit, and there are still complaints? What exactly did the select mages complaining want?

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If anyone complained it was people that weren't mages.. are you really trying to compare the complaints of mages and non-mages?

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Originally Posted by Neptune

To fix it, they need to open the job system to Conjurers to choose between Black Mage and White Mage at the very least.

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I've always really wished they'd implement talent trees for each of the classes, so you can play your job however you want. But they won't. :(

I dunno, i've seen quite a few mages here and there complaining about how things were too easy and so forth. Some even complaining that Thaumaturge was much more capable at DD or healing than Conj, making it pointless. Now they are most likely in the process of crafting both to head down specific magic class paths, leading up to whatever jobs they can attain.

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Originally Posted by Alyssa

I've always really wished they'd implement talent trees for each of the classes, so you can play your job however you want. But they won't. :(

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You're exactly right. We should be able to play however we want, at the very least, within the roles that were given at launch. I'm talking about Customer Service and I hope they don't forget that we paid $75 for this game and invested our time in it.

Did dungeons just now, mages keep up MP just fine the whole run, there was no need of resting. Play more, whine less.

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

I dunno, i've seen quite a few mages here and there complaining about how things were too easy and so forth. Some even complaining that Thaumaturge was much more capable at DD or healing than Conj, making it pointless. Now they are most likely in the process of crafting both to head down specific magic class paths, leading up to whatever jobs they can attain.

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Well you're right about Conjurer being pointless next to Thaumaturge. But that's because Conjurer nukes are broken, not because Thaumaturge was a lot better. Maybe healing was easy, but neither class was a healing class by definition. Healing in this game prior to this patch was almost an afterthought, a convenience to usher in a more modern style of gameplay. Instead of playing whack a mole you could aoe cure, getting the job done quicker so you could go back to YOUR MAIN ROLE, which you set the definition of. The dev team is grasping into the past because they don't have the balls to keep doing something original. Sorry to be so harsh, dev team, but it's true. But we'll let it slide if you compensate Conjurers by opening up the Job system to us instead of trying to force us into a job we didn't pick. If you leveled Conjurer up for offensive purposes to rank 50 you can't be anything but disappointed now.

People wouldn't be complaining about easy if Conjurer black magic wasn't needlessly broken or if resist rates weren't broken.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Did dungeons just now, mages keep up MP just fine the whole run, there was no need of resting. Play more, whine less.

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No one's raising the issue of running out of MP in a party. The issue is running out of MP while solo, or doing something other than 130MP Curaga 2's in party.

I love how duped some of your guys are into thinking an mp sink automatically adds difficulty. It doesn't really, its just another thing for mages to watch just like their new hate meter and the tanks hp. Strategy adds difficulty, multiple strategies depending on classes at hand is difficulty. Not an mp sink, oh god no, thats poor mans dupe.

Neptune, if you havent had the chance to attempt a solo battle against a moderate enemy/guildleve since the patch was implemented, i'd give it a shot at least once. It might not be as bad as you think, especially since enemies have been tweaked due to the new system as well.

overall point is that now conj can fill every role needed while thm cannot. Conj is gonna be required for dungeons while thm is just optional. Hell even if they had just given the raises to thm, it would give some reason to have them in the pt. But conj can dd, heal, buff/debuff at will while thm can debuff/dd. Im totally cool with the changes if they will make both mages needed and not just make one required and one optional.

edit: but w/e the patch is done gonna stop derailing this thred because its about mp cost

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Well you're right about Conjurer being pointless next to Thaumaturge. But that's because Conjurer nukes are broken, not because Thaumaturge was a lot better. Maybe healing was easy, but neither class was a healing class by definition. Healing in this game prior to this patch was almost an afterthought, a convenience to usher in a more modern style of gameplay. Instead of playing whack a mole you could aoe cure, getting the job done quicker so you could go back to YOUR MAIN ROLE, which you set the definition of. The dev team is grasping into the past because they don't have the balls to keep doing something original. Sorry to be so harsh, dev team, but it's true. But we'll let it slide if you compensate Conjurers by opening up the Job system to us instead of trying to force us into a job we didn't pick. If you leveled Conjurer up for offensive purposes to rank 50 you can't be anything but disappointed now.

People wouldn't be complaining about easy if Conjurer black magic wasn't needlessly broken or if resist rates weren't broken.




No one's raising the issue of running out of MP in a party. The issue is running out of MP while solo, or doing something other than 130MP Curaga 2's in party.

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2 mage jobs is 2 mage jobs...that's how it is sadly.

And a blast from the past? WTF are you talking about? We wanted to pointless avoid the zerg-a-thons where offensive was..well...that's all there was.

At least this brings it back to balance somewhat. The do everything syndrome is finally kicking the bucket. Massive loose ends, but it is what it is.

let me sum up the community

um "lol @ THM and ARC" "shut up CON lern to cure onry" "quit then, go play wow" "dont let the door hit you" "let the door hit you" "yer wrong im right now cure me and go passive" "servers werk fine"