The Atma Stigma

i started mine day 3 of update and have gotten 2 so far lol i always thought they made atma the way they did in those particular areas so vets would mingle with newer players especially after they added ps4 playerbase but i could be 150% wrong :p

I'm enjoying my quest for ATMA's
Sure, it takes time, that is the point, you're working hard to get something nice at the end of it
It's not a requirement to do this quest, only if you want to upgrade your Relic Weapon
i only started my quest on Saturday and currently have 10 ATMA's
Only 2 to go woohoo!!

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Originally Posted by Nomad-phx

i started mine day 3 of update and have gotten 2 so far lol i always thought they made atma the way they did in those particular areas so vets would mingle with newer players especially after they added ps4 playerbase but i could be 150% wrong :p

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I figured the same thing honestly. And for THAT they deserve praise..Just the RNG aspect is well..TOO RNG.

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Originally Posted by Chocolate_Rain

Seriously? Its been proven time and time again that character progression is needed in order for people to stay playing a certain mmo. Without said progression, people will simply stop playing because there's very little to keep a person there without a feeling of advancement or "getting stronger". I've heard the argument of "if you don't raid, then why do you need gear?" more often than I care to remember, and it holds no more weight than the first time it was uttered. The relic reborn quest was supposed to have been the answer for people who don't have access to high end progression, so that they would have a comparable weapon that would be acceptable should they decide to move into progression.

My personal issue with the atma/animus part of the relic is the fact that I don't have much time (work and being a single father) and due to both, my schedule is erratic. Joining a static would be a juggling act, at best, on my part and a gamble on theirs. So personal progression through endgame content is confined to what's in party finder at the time, and admittedly slow when you're fairly new to the content(hit 50 after 2.2 dropped). So I have to rely on myth/soldiery gear and the relic weapon to progress. The problem with that being, the atma/animus part of the relic quest is such a timesink, it will literally take me months to get it done in it's current form, given my schedule. So yes, I am considering stopping payment on this game until the next patch hits (given the patch is casual friendly) since, in it's current state, the relic quest would take up too much of what little time I have.

To those who have persevered, I don't belittle your efforts in the least. Understand that there are those of us, however, that only have 4-5 hours a week to play, not day.

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This is what I was looking to see. A legitimate reason behind the issue with hours. I'm sorry you don't have much time to play, but being a single father is far more important than a game. I shouldn't even have to say/write that.

It certainly seems like atmas weren't meant to be casual-friendly. Though this is due to the fact players complained there weren't any long-term goals in the game pre-2.2(5).

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Originally Posted by Caiera

I'm enjoying my quest for ATMA's
Sure, it takes time, that is the point, you're working hard to get something nice at the end of it
It's not a requirement to do this quest, only if you want to upgrade your Relic Weapon
i only started my quest on Saturday and currently have 10 ATMA's
Only 2 to go woohoo!!

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Yeah. Managed to snag 2 yesterday/today within a 20 minute interval. 5/12 on the second go.

No matter how you dress RNG up it's still junk anyway you look at it.

The elation I felt when I saw that last atma pop up on screen was overwhelming. I broke down in tears and collapsed on the floor in convulsions. I am still recovering.

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Originally Posted by MogBeatr

The elation I felt when I saw that last atma pop up on screen was overwhelming. I broke down in tears and collapsed on the floor in convulsions. I am still recovering.

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My immediate reaction when I got my final one on the first set was:

http://www.troll.me/images/sweet-jes.../fuck-yeah.jpg

Here's the problem, and it's very well known, it's RNG, I can't stress how that's the problem enough, and not the time investment.

You main argument seems to be comparing it to proper content in the game, here's the main difference:

Every time we failed at Titan EX, it's because we made a mistake.
Every time we failed at Turn 6, it's because we made a mistake.
Every time we failed at Turn 7, it's because we made a mistake.
Every time we failed at Turn 8, it's because we made a mistake.
Every time we fail at Turn 9, it's because we make a mistake.

See the pattern? Every time we fail at every other piece of content in the game, it's because of something we have done wrong, the very opposite can be said for Atma.

Every time I fail to get an Atma, it's because RNG.

You can be doing everything right, Zenith equipped, getting Golds, hitting as many FATEs as you can, and if RNG determines it so, you're NOT going to get your Atma.

Most (not all) the people I've seen defending this quest are people who got lucky those who get all the Atmas in a couple of days. I would definitely like to see how their opinions change if they got unlucky, like myself and many friends, those of us who have spent over 24 hours in one zone to get one atma, and then, almost insultingly, you have those who get lucky, and get all 12 Atmas in that same time frame.

I am more than willing to invest hundreds of hours into obtaining my weapon, but it shouldn't be dependent on RNG, taking some players 12 hours, and other players 12 days.

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

rabble rabble rabble

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If you kill Titan EX, the accessory you wanted didn't drop, so you leave with nothing, is that still because you did something wrong?

You are making it seem if you don't get your atma, then you are failing, you are successful at the fates, it's just that the loot is RNG, just like primals and coil turns. I know you will say something along the lines of, "Well if we clear a coil turn, something drops for the group, so it helps us as a unit." Well that is going off the assumption that everyone runs in static groups, and primals and coil require a group, you can solo your fates. Now let's look at loot from Titan EX, you have a 1/5 chance of the loot you want to drop, and a 1/8 chance that you will get that loot, my math may be off but to me that seems like a 2-3% chance that you will get the loot you are after, and people are saying atma drop rates are around 2%, for me I have about a 5% drop rate, so the atma drop rate is around the same as getting what you want from EX primals. Now of course with the primal loot there are some things you can do up your chances a bit, like going on the job for the loot you are after, setting up you own parties and excluding others after the same loot, that kind of stuff, but again, atma farming has the benefits of not being able to up your drop chances, but the advantage of not needing 7 other people, so it is open to farm anytime you are on regardless of anyone else, it is all on you.

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

Here's the problem, and it's very well known, it's RNG, I can't stress how that's the problem enough, and not the time investment.

You main argument seems to be comparing it to proper content in the game, here's the main difference:

Every time we failed at Titan EX, it's because we made a mistake.
Every time we failed at Turn 6, it's because we made a mistake.
...(snip)

Every time I fail to get an Atma, it's because RNG.

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You can do everything right in Titan EX, Turn 6, Turn 7, Turn 8 and Turn 9 and still not get the loot you wanted.
Because it's "RNG" also. Your odds are better. Because something is going to drop, but its still random.

You are lacking the understanding of how random works and that its a staple of video games.

The Random is the time investment. Since no skill is involved.

If you want more performance based chances at a high level weapons, do coil.

I got my last two yesterday. No happiness or whatsover, just thank god and good riddance :p

u dont have to compare the atma grind to get your relic progress to ffxi
you could use ffx/ffx-2/ffxii/ffxiii/ffxiii-2/ffxiii-3
its kinda their thing

there's also t5/t9/sol/levi weapons u can try your luck vs rng as well

Okay.

I think we need to clear up a few things here.

You are lumping -everyone- into one camp of "Oh they just want to have the relic weapon spoonfed to them." Let's reverse the situation. What if you were told "If you like sitting there for hours on end, repeating the same droll task over and over, and doing something that has no creativity, no engagement, and the only chance of failure is -literally- running against a time constraint and mechanical limitations (Like soloing a Stoneskin boss on a server's off-time? Good luck killing that if you're not a monk.), then you're a simpleton with no cultured taste or self respect."?

People -like- the Atma for different reasons. And none of the reasons mentioned are because it's a challenge and reflective of their ability as a player.

That said, people -don't like- the Atma for different reasons. And the one reason everyone latches on to when they come on to these forums is that "Oh they're entitled."

No. No no no no.

I (maybe others) don't like it because it is uninteresting and lazy game design. It is the very definition of the game many of us are trying to get away from. It is Warcraft in its worst form; The droll, repetitive tasks to get a piece of shiney gear. There's no sense of accomplishment, no sense of overcoming a challenge. "The challenge is patience!" No, no thanks. I spend enough of my patience on a daily basis doing things that -aren't supposed to be fun-.

When I log on to the game, I want a challenge. I want fun. I don't want to sit around doing what is literally the least entertaining thing about the game (Fates) until the magical dice roll and say "Yaaaaay, you're a winner!". And then afterwards? After you get all 12? Well it doesn't change. The dice are replaced with a ten-gallon tank that you need to fill with a teacup. Over and over again.

When it's full? They give you another tank, and a crappy generic brand oatmeal bar. And you do it again. Do it 9 times and you get a slightly less crappy brand name oatmeal bar.

Is that a casual mindset? What is a casual, entitled mindset? I would rather wipe all day on some ludicrously stupid and difficult encounter with no end in sight than deal with the Atma and the Fates.

This isn't a 'harder' relic quest. It is verging on the "Requires a maximum of two brain cells bumping into each other to complete" section of difficulty. You see someone with an Atma or an Animas, and you don't think "Wow, he must have been able to find 7 other people to take down GilgaOdinShivaAnimasRamuhFrit" or "He got carried".

You think "Wow, he got through the Atma -and- the Myth grind. [Insert subsequent thought here]" (For me, that tends to be "Lucky sod.")

I give the equivalent of 0 mother-licking !@#%s about the power of the item. The glow isn't worth the headache that doing Fates brings on, let alone doing Fates for an ultimately indeterminate amount of time. I'd rather kill a boss or make it myself. I'd rather -get the equipment by overcoming an actual challenge to my playing ability-.

"If I do this long enough, I should get something for it." is no less a ridiculous or entitled thought process than "If I do this well enough, I should get something for it."

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

-snip-

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Amen to that. you have said everything I have been trying to say in this thread and then some. maybe now the defenders of this moronic quest will finally understand.... i hope....

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

If you kill Titan EX, the accessory you wanted didn't drop, so you leave with nothing, is that still because you did something wrong?

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Ummm i think the issue isn;t even RNG per se but how BAD the RNG IS. There is RNG and then RNG.

Think of it this way. You are given a pistol, put into a pitch black shooting range. A target is placed somewhere at the far end, and you have to hit it 12 times. You take a shot. There's a chance you might hit it, but odds are you aren't. Now, every time you miss, the target is moved. You don't know where you shot at, or where it is now. This is what grinding for the Atmas is like. Yes, some people will get lucky and finish it quickly, but most won't. Something as simple as a progress bar would have made this a lot easier to deal with because without a clear cut goal, you're just shooting in the dark.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

You think "Wow, he got through the Atma -and- the Myth grind. [Insert subsequent thought here]" (For me, that tends to be "Lucky sod.")

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It's just too bad your whole post was ruined by this one statement. Why worry about what everyone else has? Why not just be happy with what YOU have?

As far as any skills are concerned, I've actually had to think on how to manage my HP/TP properly with low-level FATEs. Not having access to the full spectrum of abilities one has at level 50 has given me insight to how to do that.

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Originally Posted by Callisto913

Think of it this way. You are given a pistol, put into a pitch black shooting range. A target is placed somewhere at the far end, and you have to hit it 12 times. You take a shot. There's a chance you might hit it, but odds are you aren't. Now, every time you miss, the target is moved. You don't know where you shot at, or where it is now. This is what grinding for the Atmas is like. Yes, some people will get lucky and finish it quickly, but most won't. Something as simple as a progress bar would have made this a lot easier to deal with because without a clear cut goal, you're just shooting in the dark.

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Again, how is it "without a clear cut goal?" You wouldn't keep going for the same atma over and over when you already got one from the area you're in (provided you're only going FOR 1) would you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coRtxAZh6V4

I think it's pretty good tips and opinion and I agree with it. I can stand the atma RNG but I don't "like" it.

I just finished gathering my 2nd set of atmas for my 2nd weapon. Back to myth grind.

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Originally Posted by Chihaya

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coRtxAZh6V4

I think it's pretty good tips and opinion and I agree with it. I can stand the atma RNG but I don't "like" it.

I just finished gathering my 2nd set of atmas for my 2nd weapon. Back to myth grind.

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Congrats. I'm on 11/12 of my second set. And this is what makes or breaks people: this questline is about determination. Are you really determined to get what will "become the ultimate weapon?"

How very self centered and egocentric defenders of this quest are. You are delusional if you think this is a real grind. I have done real grinds and they were way more interesting then this so called "grind". There is nothing challenging at all about farming fates. Just stating that you had to "manage" tp pools and such on low level fates is ludicrous.

You want to make a time sink fine, i don't mind but this time sink is beyond pathetic and boring and only services those that have too much time to play which includes myself. I have my animus and its absolutely NOTHING special. Totally not worth time spent and that was less then some cause i got "luckier" then some.

You can shout all you want about i did it the "work" so should you but if people get sick of stupid quests like this and quit playing, your so called work goes bye bye cause no players = no money = bye bye game.

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Originally Posted by Galan

How very self centered and egocentric defenders of this quest are. You are delusional if you think this is a real grind. I have done real grinds and they were way more interesting then this so called "grind". There is nothing challenging at all about farming fates. Just stating that you had to "manage" tp pools and such on low level fates is ludicrous.

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Same could be said about those who bash it. Especially those who completed it and say it "wasn't worth their time." If it wasn't then why did you do it?

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

Every time we failed at getting a mount or Heart of Crags in Titan EX, it's because RNG.
Every time I failed to win roll the gear I wanted in Turn 6, it's because RNG.
Every time I failed to win roll on Unidentified Allagan Tomestone or Oil of Time in Turn 7, it's because RNG.
Every time I failed to win roll on Sand of Time in Turn 8, it's because RNG.
Every time we fail to get White Raven Armor Fragment in Turn 9, it's because RNG.

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Fixed. Bad examples are bad.

I wonder how one would try to show these concepts as fun to someone who never played an MMO before

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I wonder how one would try to show these concepts as fun to someone who never played an MMO before

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By not trying to. They will decide what is fun to them, and then do that. It is not our place to define for others what should be fun.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

By not trying to. They will decide what is fun to them, and then do that. It is not our place to define for others what should be fun.

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then why are you and those who defend this quest saying it is awesome and should stay the same so you can have some sort of elitist show of "skill" (though most of the guys i know in game are just like galan and think it was a total wast of time)

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Originally Posted by Vesuvias

then why are you and those who defend this quest saying it is awesome and should stay the same so you can have some sort of elitist show of "skill" (though most of the guys i know in game are just like galan and think it was a total wast of time)

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If people consider it as fun, then did you ever consider that it has a valid place in the game? I don't consider pvp fun, but that doesnt mean I am the best person to suggest its removal or complete overhaul. Yet here you are, trying to do the same to this.

This is fun for me and clearly many others, and you want to dictate to me that it is not fun and therefore they should change it to cater to your wants instead of our's?

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

It's just too bad your whole post was ruined by this one statement. Why worry about what everyone else has? Why not just be happy with what YOU have?

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You're making an assumption here.

But it wouldn't be the first time, so no one's surprised.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Fixed. Bad examples are bad.

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It really isn't.

Atma is a progression.

Getting a boss down is a process of progression.

One you control. The other you don't.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

It really isn't.

Getting the Atma is a progression.

Getting a specific boss drop to fall in your lap is a progression.

Neither you fully control.

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Now this I can agree with. Fixed again.

The person who gets all 9 animus will be the one to rule them all.
The legendary grinder.
Sooooooo imo the only one who should have the final say in atma is yoshi and the person who get's all 108 atma pieces, 13,500 myth tomes and does all 81 books.

Wow, haves who are successful, partially through luck, disregarding that luck and telling have-nots who are fed up and can't succeed because they didn't have that luck to bootstrap. It's like I'm really in America!

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Originally Posted by Krr

Wow, haves who are successful, partially through luck, disregarding that luck and telling have-nots who are fed up and can't succeed because they didn't have that luck to bootstrap. It's like I'm really in America!

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At one point I was a have-not. So I bootstrapped. Now I have 2 weapons. See how that works?

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

At one point I was a have-not. So I bootstrapped. Now I have 2 weapons. See how that works?

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No. No I don't.

You're confusing "Keep at it guys" with "Guys, whichever god you worship, you better hope they're in a fu**ing good mood"

SURE, yes, I will give to you that eventually something will drop. It may take a few minutes, or a couple of years. Eventually it'd drop, but is the system actually good?.

SE can, theoretically, set a threshold where an Atma will only drop after every 100 FATEs, but has a 70% chance in every FATE that the counter will reset, rising exponentially to the point that, at the 99th FATE, the chance to reset the counter is 99.9%, with the technical specification being, rolling a number from 0 to 999.999 will reset the counter, rolling 1.000.000 will not.

Eventually, perhaps in a few days, or perhaps in a couple decades, someone will get it. But is that system not a complete chocobo dung?

People really need to start looking at the core problem. Has anyone ever complained that the relic quest is a complete bull? Because I have never seen such a thing. Someone will invariably complain about Titan's inherent dependency to awesome internet connection, but nobody has ever complained about the system as a whole, because it works well: you know your progress, you know the goal, you know what you need to do, you know how to do it, and the goalpost stays put. No RNG involved, pure skill and effort.

Now, I want you to go ahead and tell me, with a straight face: "Yes, I definitely find having to repeatedly do low level FATE in Western Thanalan with my item level 90 job, where all of my efforts to level and gear up that character is lost, to be a good system".

Can you do that?

You're missing the point I was originally intending to give. It's not an argument about whether the system is good or bad, my advocacy was leaning toward giving inspiration to those who were feeling frustrated.

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

You're missing the point I was originally intending to give. It's not an argument about whether the system is good or bad, my advocacy was leaning toward giving inspiration to those who were feeling frustrated.

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I advocate taking the atma grind slow, for me it was only something I did when I was bored and wanted something to keep my hands busy while I watched or read something and I ended up finishing it in a few weeks.

But it's still a pretty bad system and in this case I would advocate more for not bothering at all so SE gets the message that blatantly manipulative content won't fly in the future.

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

You're missing the point I was originally intending to give. It's not an argument about whether the system is good or bad, my advocacy was leaning toward giving inspiration to those who were feeling frustrated.

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You should realize when you're being inspiring and when you're being insipid and insulting to those of us still doing the quest and seeing no progress after over 60 hours in one zone. Especially those of us with limited time to play the game who can't afford to farm digital bees in a digital forest for eight hours a day to get digital weapons by pressing the same two buttons over and over and over again like it's a damn slot machine. It's completely at ends with the idea of short-burst raid encounters and daily content that I can pop an hour or two into and feel done with. It reeks of something designed for bored executives and high-tier office monkeys who spend eight of their ten "working hours" doing nothing at a desk rather than an actual game for human beings. And when reforging lets us optimize our secondary stats, those are the only people who'll get to access serious raid content come 2.4 and 2.5.

At least with bosses/dungeons you can at least feel good that you beat something hard and SOMEONE in your party got SOMETHING at the end even if it wasn't you, plus the drop rates for the thing you want are better in dungeons. With Atma no one could get anything for MONTHS.
Saying your progress is tracked when you get an atma is missing the point because its not what we're talking about. Its the PROGRESS TO EACH ATMA. Let me know if I have to do 10 or 300 more fates until I get one. Then at least I'll feel like I'll eventually get there. Why put time into something with no guarantee, when I could instead work towards getting a weathered weapon? I know for a fact that I can get one and know how close I am to getting it. It bothers me that I will miss out on story if I can't get my atma.
The other problem with atma is that atma farmers make it impossible for lower level people to do fates and get exp or seals. You can't get to them without a chocobo and need them to get a chocobo.

Well it's been a while since I added any input to this.

I'm at a point in the game where I'm no longer really having fun because I've done the arbitrary things I've set out to do. Can't get past Titan EX or T5, and all I can really do now is hunt atmas. But I've hit the point where I find it trivial, completely boring even, because I've already done it twice. I'm not doing books because running BrayHM is also ungodly boring to me.

So now I can sympathize with those who complain that the system is broken. Granted, I don't agree with them, but I can at least understand their plight.

The trick is, distract your mind. Don't "expect" for it to come coz', IT. WILL. COME., eventually. Other than that, the majestic works of grinding isn't for you. Do some alternatives. That ain't gonna hurt.