what kept ffxi fresh for players , cant be found here.

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Originally Posted by Crimson-Falcon

plus we dont want FFXI-2

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Speak for yourself. I was only interested in the original XIV because I figured it was just going to be XI with a fresh coat of paint and modern sensibilities, but ugh. ARR is pretty cool though. It stand's well on it's own, doesn't change the fact that I still want XI-2

ARR is it's own thing entirely though. It's not XI part deux. It shouldn't be, I think that expectation is somewhat ridiculous. Really XI can't happen in the current market, kinda makes me sad but I also grasp that realistically I don't have a shred of the free time that I had to invest in it. I would still assuage all responsibility and laugh in the face of tradition as I board myself in a small shack in north Toledo if it was ever re-released in an XI-2 format.

We can't change the way games are nowaday. However, we can try to make them understand the following:

What this game lacks, is optional content, with an actual point, and no virtual limitations (drop/time).

And that kind of addition, will have to be added on a regular basis (Along with main content after every big patches), considering the previous one will be made obselete due to the ilv cap raise and such.

I do realize that adding new content isnt exactly as easy as that. Well, if you completly create it, that is.

This content doesnt need to have fancy new maps with fancy new mobs and fancy new graphics. And that's where the whole hard/extreme system could serve its purpose at best.

Indeed, if they used this whole system to make optional content that have the purpose to fill the blanks during the week instead of blasting it out on useless additional dungeons that serve no real purpose, then i'm sure we wouldnt see as many complain posts as we do as of now.

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Originally Posted by Greed

-snip

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XIV dungeons are short, linear, and don't allow for variation on strategy. Completing these dungeons don't feel like accomplishments and I never look forward to doing them.

XI dungeon areas are large, allowing for multiple types of gameplay, strategy, and play style. Dynamis, for instance, covers an entire zone. Each linkshell I was in (pre-Abyssea) all had different variations on strategies, who pulls, what gets pulled, what order. Not to mention, are you doing it for completion, farming, or relic fight. Sky/Sea/Limbus are all similar in that the "dungeon" is not a tiny instance with narrow corridors, but a large expansive zone. The loot system may not be as desirable, but regardless to that, it kept people interested and wanting to come back time and time again.

I did Dynamis/Sky/Sea/Limbus for 3 years and never got bored with it. I've done Crystal Tower four times and never want to do it again because it is so boring.

That is the difference.

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Originally Posted by jwang

Sir, you apparently are suffering from something we call Stockholm Syndrome, where someone kept captive start sympathizing with their captor. You should seek psychiatric help immediately, for the abuse that FFXI has heaped upon you is far more damaging than you imagine. Also, your grammar and spelling techniques are rather lacking, and thus it would probably be beneficial for you to also seek assistance in this area as well.

All in all, while FFXI was good for its time, its time is in the past. As we step towards a bolder, better future, we will need to shed the shackles of limitations that the past has imposed on us, and stride to the beautiful horizon that is FFXIV.

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OMG for someone that cracks on someone for spelling look at your own character name... Did you close yours eyes and just push random keys? And what a cool diagnosis Stockholm Syndrome you have found Dr. Jwang with a whopping 27 likes wait 28 +1 from me. I mean forbid anyone still likes and compares FFXI over a lobby instance beautiful horizon FFXIV. You sir are truly my hero....

@OP This game was designed to be retard-proof and it's still not enough so it requires to be as dumbed down as possible for the masses. It's really an insult for the FFXI veterans and 1.0 players alike, I didn't want this but if FFXIV needed it to be successful then there's no choice but to accept it.

My primary concern with FFXIV (among a few) is that there is no end game.
The absolute level cap (pre-abyssea) in FFXI allowed for an actual end game playground.
It had some kind of GOAL.

In FFXIV i'm not really sure what it is i'm aiming for?
What's my motivation to have the current strongest gear?

This game needs time to develop its additional play forms, like gold saucer and PvP and open world content worth anything.
I believe that come the 3.x and 4.x eras this game will really shine,
I mean, consider what FFXI or WoW was before the first expansion.
Different era yes, but heck, ANY Vanilla MMO generally has a restrictive size.
This game is in full complete the foundation mode till 3.x

Without a defined end though, i really don't know why i care to have the strongest tier of gear at ANY time.

What I loved about FFXI was the story for the classes and jobs that you would unlock. Those stories were very moving and motivating.

What was not motivating was having to deal with weeks/months worth of farm just to get there.

As another person who played FFXI for 8+ years... (Pre Abyssia, but really pre seekers.)

I miss levels mattering.

Saying 'ding lv20' meant something, it meant no more dunes, time to unlock your subjob and venture to Jeuno. An area that had mobs up to to lv40 between the dunes and there.

Yes it was grindy, and yes, death came with a penalty.

But you know what? That gave death meaning. Less people just derped through things. People didn't join difficult content before they were ready. Hitting level cap felt like an accomplishment.

Abyssea did make leveling stupid easy, but it added hours and hours of small group and solo content, and a whole new boss tree to climb.

What it did not do, is make Sea/Sky/etc pointless.

In FFXI, when Sea was added, Sky was still useful, when Salvage and Einherjar were added, Sea and Sky still had value. New contend did not overwrite old, it added to it.
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I personally havent lotted on a drop in any non-CT/Coil dungeon in months. When my remaining non-50 classes hit 50, they go straight to +1 Relic/Primal weapon and DL/CT/Coil/Myth gear. I use none of the I55/i60 gear for them.

So why add more content at that level, while also adding content above the current best, with levi weapons being i100.

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Originally Posted by Youmadesca

stuff

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^ This is why I keep going "Oh that looks interesting" when I see an update, then quickly remember why I quit. P2P with F2P content quality. Slapping hard mode / extreme onto something is NOT new content. For the amount of time they make us wait (3-5 months) between updates, they only give us content that'll last us a week or two, maybe less if you have a static.

I look at 2.2's stuff and think, ~12 story missions that can be done in a day or two. The "new" dungeons that drop the same crap we already have so only use is doing it once for the quest they add (or spam it or one of the old ones for tomes). I feel that Levi and Mog will become a 1-2 time thing, unless the gear they plan to add to it is on par with the newer gear, it'll just be useless vanity. Coil? Sure, that'll take a little bit. Zodiac weapons? Remember, they claimed relic would take a "long time" and people can get those in ~5 hours.

I really do want to like XIV, but they really half-assed it and just keep throwing out the same recycled content and expect it to last us until the next update :/ All of this is why I decide not to resub. I'd end up paying 13.00 and finish most of the content before that month is even up. There are no long term goals in XIV, especially if they keep insta-nerfing content that just came out, because they add something else. All that's going to do is cause new people to join the game and instantly be up with the people who've been playing months-years(if it even lasts that long, going this route), causing them to get bored and run out of things to do.

All SE has done by making a weeks worth of content every 3-5 months and even then, said content is easy and they just nerf the content that came out 1 update before, it's turning into a Facebook game. This isn't a mmo. It's a single player lobby game that just happens to have people in it. :/

As I said months ago in another post. It's pretty sad if this is the way mmos are going (judging by the amount I've played, besides a small tiny few, they're all the same). I feel bad for the new people who are just getting into mmos. They'll never get to experience what a true mmo was like.
I have no idea why people now want mmos to be single player games where they can beat everything and be handed the best gear. I know people will complain at me for saying this but mmo's are meant to be a time investment. They need stuff to keep you playing for long periods of time. If you can log on, hit cap and get some of the best current gear before your 2nd month, something isn't right.

Someone's going to come here and quote this and try to argue with me that they "don't have enough time" or some bs to try to validate a reason for mmos being super dumbed down. But let's be honest, even back in the old days when mmos actually took amounts of time to get stuff, there were plenty of people who "didn't have enough time" yet they still played it. Which invalidates their argument, it's not like everyone had all the time in the world back then and magically no one has time for anything now. People still had work/life/family and still put in time for a mmo.

Imo, that's what's killing mmos these days. Impatient/whiny people who want mmos to be picked up and played like single player games, with minimal effort for maximum reward.





Personally, I'd love an XI-2 >.>
And from what I've taken from the people who say "We don't want it" or the ones who hate all over XI is that
A) They never actually played XI
B) They did, but gave up and quit when they had to talk to people and couldn't solo their way to cap in a few days.

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Originally Posted by jwang

Sir, you apparently are suffering from something we call Stockholm Syndrome, where someone kept captive start sympathizing with their captor. You should seek psychiatric help immediately, for the abuse that FFXI has heaped upon you is far more damaging than you imagine. Also, your grammar and spelling techniques are rather lacking, and thus it would probably be beneficial for you to also seek assistance in this area as well.

All in all, while FFXI was good for its time, its time is in the past. As we step towards a bolder, better future, we will need to shed the shackles of limitations that the past has imposed on us, and stride to the beautiful horizon that is FFXIV.

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This is such a load of BS. XD

Nothing kept FFIX fresh. FFIX was bad.

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Originally Posted by Akirakogami

Nothing kept FFIX fresh. FFIX was bad.

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FFIX was a console game...

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Originally Posted by Khavir

Really XI can't happen in the current market

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I think it actually could. It would have an entire slice of costumers that no other game at the moment cater to. Even FFXI is casual as crazy now.

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The loot system may not be as desirable

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I kind of like the sky gods loot system. Even if you did not get gear that time, usually some kind of crafting material dropped. That way, you at least walked away with some gil at the end.

The best thing about old XI though. It was harder finding crappy players after level 20, then it is finding them at 50 here.

They're adding new bosses, harder modes for previous content, nerfing some content to make it accessable for everyone, front lines which will be godly no doubt, new pvp, easier pvp structure for newbies at beginning, more dungeons, more equipment, Gold Saucer, A bunch of side thingies to do for those that like to do housing/gardening things, and they do this stuff every 3 months, sometimes with.5 patches 1.5 months... I fkn love this game. Why do the people that love FF11 so much play here and say this system is bad, why don't you play ff11?

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Originally Posted by Amberion

I think it actually could. It would have an entire slice of costumers that no other game at the moment cater to. Even FFXI is casual as crazy now.

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I personally think a mmo like XI could work today too. I'm sure a lot of people are sick and tired of the same junk we've been handed for the last 10 years. Problem is, no one has the Thal's Balls to try it, they all want to go the "safe way" that ends up dying or going F2P in a year or so.

I know plenty of people, myself included, who would gladly shell out the money to play a mmo like XI for years.

Another semi-lated topic, but does no one look at XI, with it's play style that's lasted for 11+ years and still making money and think "Hey, maybe we should try that." Instead of going with the dumbed down easy route and a year later going "Why did our mmo die so soon?"

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Originally Posted by ulti_19

They're adding new bosses, harder modes for previous content, nerfing some content to make it accessable for everyone, front lines which will be godly no doubt, new pvp, easier pvp structure for newbies at beginning, more dungeons, more equipment, Gold Saucer, A bunch of side thingies to do for those that like to do housing/gardening things, and they do this stuff every 3 months... I fkn love this game. Why do the people that love FF11 so much play here and say this system is bad, why don't you play ff11?

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Yeah but that's still all just the same rehashed stuff I see everywhere else with a different skin. The only thing that sounds even vaguely different is Gold Saucer. I mean hell if you have to market hard modes of previous content as new content that should be a warning sign but that's just me.

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Originally Posted by Akirakogami

Nothing kept FFIX fresh. FFIX was bad.

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This is why we cant have nice things.

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Originally Posted by Khavir

Yeah but that's still all just the same rehashed stuff I see everywhere else with a different skin. The only thing that sounds even vaguely different is Gold Saucer. I mean hell if you have to market hard modes of previous content as new content that should be a warning sign but that's just me.

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Well I'd be worried if the only content released was previous content in harder modes. But there's brand new content that goes with it. I've played some 'hardcore' mmo's that takes a year to level up the character to 50, the max level. All it is is a long grind to keep you paying sub's and or wasting money on exp booster or the like, it isn't making ppl better players by spending so much time into it killing the same monsters or doing some quest daily every day like a chore with zombie mind. At least here you can level up pretty fast and see the whole game, even if right now, there isn't the most content it's not some loooong pointless grind for people who have way too much time to do it. Or those .05 % chance to drop extremely rare loot, this isn't hardcore, you can play for 5 years and never get the drop, it is a method to keep the player farming an impossible statistic, at least here you will eventually get it if you try it so many times.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

I personally think a mmo like XI could work today too. I'm sure a lot of people are sick and tired of the same junk we've been handed for the last 10 years. Problem is, no one has the Thal's Balls to try it, they all want to go the "safe way" that ends up dying or going F2P in a year or so.

I know plenty of people, myself included, who would gladly shell out the money to play a mmo like XI for years.

Another semi-lated topic, but does no one look at XI, with it's play style that's lasted for 11+ years and still making money and think "Hey, maybe we should try that." Instead of going with the dumbed down easy route and a year later going "Why did our mmo die so soon?"

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That's more what I meant. It's not that there isn't an audience for it so much as there is no developer for it. I would totally jump aboard XI all over again. That game was everything that an MMO should be and it still is really. Despite the constant gripes that I hear about it I usually play a few months a year not that hardcore anymore but still. It was good times, the best times I've had in an MMO. I'm starting to get to the point where if the entire genre want's to go to this model that only WoW has ever really done to it's fullest then it's not something I'm going to be interested in anymore. Vertical progression can be cool I suppose from time to time but why even bother starting over when I've done the same exact thing before?

If you gave me another XI though I would throw myself at that in every way possible. I mean I would literally go to a Home Depot to buy the materials to build a Catapult and physically throw myself at the developers for a copy. It might take a few more years yet but I think eventually the current trend will fade away and we'll get back to actual variety once they all start realizing that copying the cut and paste method doesn't work and instead cleaving out your own loyal subscriber base is the only to really succeed in the MMO genre. Well maybe, in a perfect world at least.

OP you realise (and I am sure others have mentioned, I didn't read the whole thread) that much of the stuff you mentioned in FF11 was expansion content or patched in quite some time after the game came out in Japan.

It's apples and oranges.

I quit FF11 multiple times because I felt the game didn't have much to offer me, and I have already took 3 months off from this game, very few MMO's can hold anyone's attention non stop for years on end.

Come and go as you please, for example when a new patch is just about to hit, I bet a lot of people will be coming back to ARR this week.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

I personally think a mmo like XI could work today too. I'm sure a lot of people are sick and tired of the same junk we've been handed for the last 10 years. Problem is, no one has the Thal's Balls to try it, they all want to go the "safe way" that ends up dying or going F2P in a year or so.

I know plenty of people, myself included, who would gladly shell out the money to play a mmo like XI for years.

Another semi-lated topic, but does no one look at XI, with it's play style that's lasted for 11+ years and still making money and think "Hey, maybe we should try that." Instead of going with the dumbed down easy route and a year later going "Why did our mmo die so soon?"

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Ya know 1.0 tried something different and it failed big time, its not the only reason it failed though, but different isn't always good.

Also FFXI has done well you are right but WoW has done better and anyone who makes an MMO these days wants to measure up against that success not the lesser one.

I'm 100% sure too if SE ever did make FF 11-2 with these graphics and everything that was similar to that game we'd have a full forum of complaining anyways about everything and anything as well. Trust me:) I have yet to encounter an mmo that doesn't have a playerbase that says the "game was better back when..." argument. Pre a certain patch, or previous title by same company etc.

The only thing I'd love to see them bring here from XI (other than an entire expansion worth of content that people seem to forget was already out before it released in North America) is skill chaining. Combat in XI required a lot more teamwork. Combine that with the mechanics brought to us in XIV and you'd have some challenging boss fights. Of course this combat system wasn't designed around something like that, but it'd still be interesting to see.

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Originally Posted by ulti_19

why don't you play ff11?

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FFXI post 'Seekers of Adulin' IS FFXIV, with worse graphics.

Sky and sea content is mostly pointless now, and the same item-level crap we have here is in FFXI.

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In FFXIV,
I like the graphic style, lore, story.
Combat mechanics, battle pace.

Do not like:
How quickly leveling is,
how fast travel is,
how quickly everything is handed to the player,
how quickly old content is completely wiped away by new.
how pointless crafting is beyond cooking,

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A single player game, outside of pvp is targeted at 30-60 hours of content.
An MMO should have hundreds of hours of content.

Will FFXIV get there? Sure, but the way its going, there will be 5 hours per week of 'productive' content, and many hours of useless, outdated, or farmville* content.

*Content that does not directly benefit the character's ability to craft or fight, but is social, or ornamental, such has Glamor, player housing, hair cuts, etc.

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Originally Posted by ulti_19

Well I'd be worried if the only content released was previous content in harder modes. But there's brand new content that goes with it.

I've played some 'hardcore' mmo's that takes a year to level up the character to 50, the max level. All it is is a long grind to keep you paying sub's and or wasting money on exp booster or the like, it isn't making ppl better players by spending so much time into it killing the same monsters or doing some quest daily every day like a chore with zombie mind.

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Two things here, first, on the new content. Yes, we will be getting Amdapor City, a new dungeon. But likely it will be like all before it, it will have the same i55-60 drops, it will be unlocked and beaten by some.

And if general consensus is that its too difficult, some people wont even bother unlocking it so it does not pop up in their duty roulette. 9 times out of 10 when duty roulette drops me in Pharos Sirious, people leave before we even start.

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2nd point on forcing people to grind to level, while having death penalties DOES make people better players. When you have to be able to play your job well to survive and keep your exp, you play your job well or don't advance. That and with the grind comes practice, and muscle memory.

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Originally Posted by Arrak

The only thing I'd love to see them bring here from XI (other than an entire expansion worth of content that people seem to forget was already out before it released in North America) is skill chaining. Combat in XI required a lot more teamwork. Combine that with the mechanics brought to us in XIV and you'd have some challenging boss fights. Of course this combat system wasn't designed around something like that, but it'd still be interesting to see.

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I wouldn't be surprised if they some how incorporated skill chaining within certain specific boss fights.

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Originally Posted by ulti_19

I'm 100% sure too if SE ever did make FF 11-2 with these graphics and everything that was similar to that game we'd have a full forum of complaining anyways about everything and anything as well.

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Players probably wouldn't complain as much because there would be content to do.



Too bad it becomes obsolete quick and consists of just mainly boss fights and hard modes.

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Originally Posted by File2ish

That said, having content released on a 3 month cycle is actually pretty good, not always enough to tie everyone over until the next patch and eventually the first expansion, but it's good nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Players probably wouldn't complain as much because there would be content to do.

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Rather, we'd have people complaining that a 0.3% drop rate is too high :D "NEEDS TO BE 0.1%! EVERYONE CAN GET IT IN A DAY OTHERWISE!"

That said, having content released on a 3 month cycle is actually pretty good considering how quickly they built ARR, at least we know the team is focused on bringing us content. It's not always enough to tie everyone over until the next patch and eventually the first expansion, but it's good nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by jwang

As we step towards a bolder, better future, we will need to shed the shackles of limitations that the past has imposed on us, and stride to the beautiful horizon that is FFXIV.

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What a game with hardly any open world content and is just a lobby as you wait to get on the ride?

Cause that's all there is once you have completed main story quest and side quest.
Best Tribe Daily's are a step in the right the direction.
But endless Primal Fight Modes and instances will get boring very quickly. Yes this game has only been out for 7 months and we will see a lot of changes to do with content in the game and maybe even see changes happen with the battle system slowly very slowly.

I all ways say this but FF14: ARR is still in its beta form the game was not ready to be released when they did. But SE had to take a risk and a chance. Hopefully by the first EXP pack we will see a more open world MMORPG.

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Originally Posted by Crimson-Falcon

guys the game just came 7 months ago give it sometime to breath

at least it didnt follow other MMOs in crazy grinds which its a game by itself

plus we dont want FFXI-2

this -2 -3 etc is 95% crap after trying FFX-2 FFXIII-2 & FFXIII-3

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I kind of want XI-2 :3 Just for the sake of seeing Vana'diel in a new light.


But yes, the game is brand new. You'd have to compare it to XI when it was 7 months old.

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Originally Posted by Blackcanary

What a game with hardly any open world content and is just a lobby as you wait to get on the ride?

Cause that's all there is once you have completed main story quest and side quest.
Best Tribe Daily's are a step in the right the direction.
But endless Primal Fight Modes and instances will get boring very quickly. Yes this game has only been out for 7 months and we will see a lot of changes to do with content in the game and maybe even see changes happen with the battle system slowly very slowly.

I all ways say this but FF14: ARR is still in its beta form the game was not ready to be released when they did. But SE had to take a risk and a chance. Hopefully by the first EXP pack we will see a more open world MMORPG.

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$10 says this game is unrecognizable in a year and a half due to all the changes and implementations. Patience.

The problem with recent MMos being released is that the market has exploded. You have more than just the dedicated hardcores; you now have the thrown in casual players. The available ages has opened as well. While this may be rated as teen, it's not hard for pre-teens up to the old fogies (apologies) to get involved. And unfortunately, with that, they have to try and cater to as many people as they can. They can't make the content too untouchable to the casuals but not so simple that the hardcores get bored with it immediately. With the re-release of ARR, they've been working on introducing things but the pace is slow for some people. I personally only started in Feb so I still have a lot of content left to motor through before I can consider myself bored but that's not the same for people that have been here for a while.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blackcanary

I all ways say this but FF14: ARR is still in its beta form the game was not ready to be released when they did. But SE had to take a risk and a chance. Hopefully by the first EXP pack we will see a more open world MMORPG.

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Um .. What ?

This game had a crap ton more content than most other MMOs at launch.

Maybe the fault isn't with SE or the game but you ... expecting too much.

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Originally Posted by Rex

I kind of want XI-2 :3 Just for the sake of seeing Vana'diel in a new light.


But yes, the game is brand new. You'd have to compare it to XI when it was 7 months old.

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People seem to forget FFXI was out in Japan a while before it was released in NA. That's a lot of time to pump out content. Then when the NA crowd hit it there were all these things to do.

Serious, no BS question.

At what point can we stop using the 'youth' of this game as an acceptable excuse?

1 year?

2?

People who say the game is only 7 months are ignoring the fact that 1.0 existed.
Yes, there have been major overhauls since then, but A LOT of stuff was carried over.
I logged out of 1.0 with a 30 Pug, and logged into 2.0 with a 30 pug, heck, most of my inventory was still there.
90% of creating a MMO was already done, items, quests, lore, art style.

Yoshii was handed RPGMaker-FFMMO Edition and didn't even use all the tools it already had.

Sure, they may come in time, but at what point do we stop saying the game is 'new'?

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Originally Posted by Arrak

People seem to forget FFXI was out in Japan a while before it was released in NA. That's a lot of time to pump out content. Then when the NA crowd hit it there were all these things to do.

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1.0 Was around longer than Japan had exclusive access to FFXI I am 90% sure.
SE knew what did and did not work in FFXI for years before the release of 1.0 AND 2.0 and did not learn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kazamoto

Serious, no BS question.

At what point can we stop using the 'youth' of this game as an acceptable excuse?

1 year?

2?

People who say the game is only 7 months are ignoring the fact that 1.0 existed.
Yes, there have been major overhauls since then, but A LOT of stuff was carried over.
I logged out of 1.0 with a 30 Pug, and logged into 2.0 with a 30 pug, heck, most of my inventory was still there.
90% of creating a MMO was already done, items, quests, lore, art style.

Yoshii was handed RPGMaker-FFMMO Edition and didn't even use all the tools it already had.

Sure, they may come in time, but at what point do we stop saying the game is 'new'?

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In my mind, an MMO is still new for at least a year. After that, then they should be in the works of designing an expansion (which I believe they said they already are).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kazamoto

Serious, no BS question.

At what point can we stop using the 'youth' of this game as an acceptable excuse?

1 year?

2?

People who say the game is only 7 months are ignoring the fact that 1.0 existed.
Yes, there have been major overhauls since then, but A LOT of stuff was carried over.
I logged out of 1.0 with a 30 Pug, and logged into 2.0 with a 30 pug, heck, most of my inventory was still there.
90% of creating a MMO was already done, items, quests, lore, art style.

Yoshii was handed RPGMaker-FFMMO Edition and didn't even use all the tools it already had.

Sure, they may come in time, but at what point do we stop saying the game is 'new'?

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You clearly don't understand the process of moving a game to a new development engine, they didn't just copy and paste the old stuff, most of it had to be pretty much remade from scratch.

To answer the first part of you question though, I would say its still young until we get the first expansion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kazamoto

Serious, no BS question.
1.0 Was around longer than Japan had exclusive access to FFXI I am 90% sure.
SE knew what did and did not work in FFXI for years before the release of 1.0 AND 2.0 and did not learn.

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Yes, and handed Yoshi-P a broken game that didn't live up to today's standards. ARR IS a new game. It was developed as a new game. This game has been releasing not just new content, but new features every patch. Although they may be minor, like ventures, every new feature is a new time sink... its something else to do. Sure players like us, especially you 1.0 players, will do all these new features, do all the new content, and be bored again, but when new players enter this game a year from now they'll have a plethora of things to do. That's why WoW is still successful. The amount of features added over the 8 years of existence give players a variety of things to do that you can't find in any other game.

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Originally Posted by Kazamoto

90% of creating a MMO was already done, items, quests, lore, art style.

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This shows how little you played 1.0.

Quests are all completely new, ~80% of non-crafting items are completely new. Art style was carried through, but all assets had to be redone, and thus are new.

Pretty much the only things that aren't new are names of locations, city layouts, crafting mats and darklight gear.

As others have said, 1st expansion is a good marker for when a game is no longer considered new. XI released with its first expansion in the US, so when it was new for us, it wasn't really a new game.

FFXI

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- May 16, 2002: PS2 ver. released.

- Aug 8, 2002: Rank 5 Missions (including the Shadow Lord fight) were implemented, but with the level cap at 50, no one had beaten it.

- Sep 12, 2002: The level cap is raised to 55. High Level Notorious Monsters, such as Behemoth, are added to their respective areas.

- Nov 26, 2002: Level cap raised to 60.

- Apr 15, 2003: Rise of Zilart preparation update. The level cap now became 65.

- Apr 17, 2003: Rise of the Zilart goes on sale.

- May 16, 2003: Final Fantasy XI Completes 1 Year of Service

- Jul 17, 2003: The level cap became 70. A new region, Tu’Lia, was unlocked. New HNMs were added (such as King Behemoth).

- Oct 28, 2003: North American PC ver. released.

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15 Months from launch to US release.

FFXIV 1.0:
September 22, 2010 - Launch
November 11, 2012 - Shutdown

26 Months.

FFXIV 2.0:
August 27, 2013 - Relaunch
Present

7 Months.

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Originally Posted by Arrak

Yes, and handed Yoshi-P a broken game that didn't live up to today's standards. ARR IS a new game. It was developed as a new game. This game has been releasing not just new content, but new features every patch. Although they may be minor, like ventures, every new feature is a new time sink... its something else to do. Sure players like us, especially you 1.0 players, will do all these new features, do all the new content, and be bored again, but when new players enter this game a year from now they'll have a plethora of things to do. That's why WoW is still successful. The amount of features added over the 8 years of existence give players a variety of things to do that you can't find in any other game.

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Most of this is true, but while yes, a new play joining up would technically have a plethora of things to do, unless it was a prereq for something else, much of the current content would be pointless. craftable gear by then will be higher ilevel than even darklight.

"Sure players like us, especially you 1.0 players, will do all these new features, do all the new content, and be bored again"
This part, is interesting. Because while yes, I am a 1.0 player. I'm also a 'Casual' player.

Some stuff like beastman quests and moogle fight are there, as content I have not done, but it is content that does not benefit my character. 'Casual' for me means unlike when I played FFXI and was a college student with loads of time, I am now married, paying a mortgage and working 60 hours a week.

If the content isn't engaging or beneficial for my character, it isnt worth my limited play time.

This means releasing 4 more dungeons that give i55-60 gear is worthless beyond the first play though. I enjoy the story and mechanics of the dungeon the first time, but on the 50th time.. it gets dull.
Wanderers Palace was the most efficient way to get myth at one point, myth got i90 gear.

I still think the best dungeon in the game is The sunken temple of Quarn, but I dont want a hard mode of that dungeon, i want new dungeons that are as complex with their mechanics.

I'm with those who dont count this game as new anymore. From where I'm sat it looks like they're concentrating too much on the festivals/events - which are all too often and only give items i have no use for.

HOWEVER -in regards to OP's post - the 'things to do at 75' are all ticked within FFXIV at 50. Only problem is that we all got to 50 way too quickly, and encounter those who got there even quicker so feel they can act like an ass about it. I'm levelling my fourth job now - something I never even considered back when I sub'd to FFXI for over a year n a half. I couldnt possibly say thats a bad thing as their play styles are each very different.
I would have expected a new class/job by now for sure - musketeer, samurai, dancer.... and fingers crossed for a red mage so long as it isnt too similar to a dagger-wielding bard.

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Originally Posted by Kazamoto

FFXI
Most of this is true, but while yes, a new play joining up would technically have a plethora of things to do, unless it was a prereq for something else, much of the current content would be pointless. craftable gear by then will be higher ilevel than even darklight.

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Yes, current content is usually what matters when a new player enters the game. That's why I specifically mentioned that they're consistently adding new FEATURES. Features and content. Two different things.

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Originally Posted by Shori

I'm with those who dont count this game as new anymore. From where I'm sat it looks like they're concentrating too much on the festivals/events - which are all too often and only give items i have no use for.

HOWEVER -in regards to OP's post - the 'things to do at 75' are all ticked within FFXIV at 50. Only problem is that we all got to 50 way too quickly, and encounter those who got there even quicker so feel they can act like an ass about it. I'm levelling my fourth job now - something I never even considered back when I sub'd to FFXI for over a year n a half. I couldnt possibly say thats a bad thing as their play styles are each very different.
I would have expected a new class/job by now for sure - musketeer, samurai, dancer.... and fingers crossed for a red mage so long as it isnt too similar to a dagger-wielding bard
.

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Why would you want another class/job when you haven't levelled all the ones available to you, yea I'm being sarcastic a little, thing is there is plenty of "other" content out there but some of it won't be of interest to you, but that doesn't mean it no longer exists.