So..Lets talk jobs?

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Originally Posted by Renshi

Marauder - Viking, of course!

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A marauder is essentially a Viking. But without the Nordic cultural context.

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Originally Posted by Bethor

Leveling the PLD from 1 to 50 would assure that you learn/buy new skills during that time. I wouldn't like it if you could unlock a "title" and get new skills for that. So as Lvl 50 GLD you can be a LV50 PLD right away.

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Yes. Because people have time to level yet another class (YAC(tm)).
If you are noob, more leveling won't help you play better. It's just more hassle and harashment to other people.
If you are smart, you will get instant level cap, and learn to play anyway.

Anyway. I don't like specialized job idea. It's pointless step back from what here is it now.
They would better remove wepon-class binding, and let anyone wield anyweapon they like. With let's say weapon-specific skills.
And left current classes as Skills. User action from that skill = gain experience in that skill = profit.
And moreover, instead of adding specialization to current skills.. simply add more skills.
And on top of that, add add specization that need serval skills leveled to some point.

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Originally Posted by Griss

People are still in the mind set that a job is something other then a directed skill set with in a Class. Funny.

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And yet some people seem to know everything about the mechanics of the job system that has been just slightly touched upon in conversations. Funny.

Anyway, to the people who think PUP was a cop out, screeeeew you. (Kidding, sorta). Puppetmaster was my favorite job.

Anyway, yes. I do believe the Lamia race were indeed necromancers for all intensive purposes. I suppose they might have been hard to add in ffxi, but the skies the limit with 14. I could totally see them maybe adding in(if they do indeed start requiring more than 1 class for certain jobs) THM and perhaps a pet-based job that will come in the future creating Necromancer.

...I..really don't care now, I just want Puppetmaster again! /cry

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Originally Posted by Lerris

A marauder is essentially a Viking. But without the Nordic cultural context.

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MRD as BRD. Bard plays instrument, guitars are instruments, guitars are also referred to as "axes". Chopping people up while playing mad riffs, I'd totally play that job!

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Originally Posted by jwang

MRD as BRD. Bard plays instrument, guitars are instruments, guitars are also referred to as "axes". Chopping people up while playing mad riffs, I'd totally play that job!

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I really hope not, I think guitars in fantasy games are just tacky, I hate it just thinking about it. On top that it would not fit final fantasy at all.

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Originally Posted by Lerris

A marauder is essentially a Viking. But without the Nordic cultural context.

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Yeah, but we don't have Hammers! If we were Vikings we would swing Hammers too!

I think that SE has kind of screwed themselves either way they go with BLM and WHM.

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Originally Posted by Cyan

Thaumaturge-White Mage. Because A) Thaumaturge's are by definition healers in a sense, B) 1:1 ratio on jobs currently, and C) White Mage seems like a basic need. I don't think they would add in Black Mage without White Mage. Although I'm not sure how this would work with THM's current setup. Guess that will come when classes get tinkered on.

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I see your point but the issue with THM becoming WHM is that first off THM's have none of the traditional WHM abilities (Cures, Protect, Shell, etc) All of these Defining skills are found on CON. And aside from that, for anyone who has played through ANY of the THM quests, it is easy to see that it definitely does NOT fit with WHM. THM's are basically cultists, lol.

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Originally Posted by Nikita

I see conjurer as becoming the White Mage personally, it has the largest arsenal of healing and support type abilities (Cure I-III, Protect, Shell, Poisona, Silena, Paralyna) and as Cairdeas mentioned before, the names we see aren't even in the Japanese version, they are called things like "Sword user" etc. I could be wrong, though I personally hope it turns out to be the White Mage. When I started FFXIV, I leveled Conjurer first due to the fact it had the spells I listed above, as I wanted to be a healer as my main role.

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See now to me this makes perfect sense, but then the issue of BLM comes up again. As SE has mentioned there will only be one Job per Class, so if CON did get WHM, THM would get BLM? This also doesn't make much sense, while THM has a lot of skills you would generally see on BLM (Bio, Posion, Blind, etc.) CON again has the real Job Defining Skills for BLM, the elemental spells (Fire, Thunder, Blizzard, etc.)

The way SE has divided up the concepts of BLM and WHM, or at least the traditional Job defining skill sets, between CON and THM really makes difficult either way you go.

I personally am happy they are bringing in jobs, but ONE per class doesnt really work with the current classes, imo.

CON should have had the option to unlock BLM or WHM, THM (while a fantastic healer) seems to me to be more of an en-feebler, and I would have seen it as more of a RDM.

Anyway, guess we'll just have to wait and see which direction they decided to take!

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Originally Posted by Lerris

A marauder is essentially a Viking. But without the Nordic cultural context.

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Marauders are Frank with Francscas.

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Originally Posted by CamAlch

I think that SE has kind of screwed themselves either way they go with BLM and WHM.


The issue with THM becoming WHM is that first off THM's have none of the traditional WHM abilities (Cures, Protect, Shell, etc) All of these Defining skills are found on CON. And aside from that, for anyone who has played through ANY of the THM quests, it is easy to see that it definitely does NOT fit with WHM. THM's are basically cultists, lol.




See now to me this makes perfect sense, but then the issue of BLM comes up again. As SE has mentioned there will only be one Job per Class, so if CON did get WHM, THM would get BLM? This also doesn't make much sense, while THM has a lot of skills you would generally see on BLM (Bio, Posion, Blind, etc.) CON again has the real Job Defining Skills for BLM, the elemental spells (Fire, Thunder, Blizzard, etc.)

The way SE has divided up the concepts of BLM and WHM, or at least the traditional Job defining skill sets, between CON and THM really makes difficult either way you go.

I personally am happy they are bringing in jobs, but ONE per class doesnt really work with the current classes, imo.
CON should have had the option to unlock BLM or WHM, THM (while a fantastic healer) seems to me to be more of an en-feebler, and I would have seen it as more of a RDM.

anyway, guess we'll just have to wait and see which direction they decided to take!

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I agree that with the current skill set it is very hard to see THM or CON as BLM and WHM respectively. But they said they were redifining classes in a significant way so maybe we will see the elemental spells go over to THM? THM would then feel like BLM and CON could have dia, banish, regen, etc.

Or maybe they will split the elemental nukes, CON could get the "astral" nukes like Fire, Ice and Wind and THM would get the "umbral" nukes like stone, water, lightning. Then they said in the future there could be jobs that requires more than one class like RDM = THM + CON... anyways as I am saying this I realise that however we turn it, there is still something weird about those two classes and I think it is best to just wait and see the changes they did.

See now the problem with them splitting up the skill sets like that though is it then no longer fits in with the Lore surrounding each class. The functionality of each class/job is obviously important, but the Lore is damn important as well, they have to find a way to make it work for both... should be interesting...

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Originally Posted by CamAlch

See now the problem with them splitting up the skill sets like that though is it then no longer fits in with the Lore surrounding each class. The functionality of each class/job is obviously important, but the Lore is damn important as well, they have to find a way to make it work for both... should be interesting...

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You know, we could be wrong in that THM or CON would become WHM. CON could become BLM, Arcanists can become WHM. Lore-wise, I think it's best for CON to keep their elemental spells and give up the cures to another class. THM doesn't fit WHM at all I find.

^ at this point, the lore is on hold. The fact that so much is changing, including the world supposedly, il start really paying attention to the lore when its ready for the new people. Its like handing a movie off to a new director and writer 20 mins into the film, might as well just re-start for the most part and do it your way.

MRD > Viking

The Viking class is a very rare class that has only appeared in Final Fantasy III (both the NES and DS versions) and Final Fantasy Tactics A2. It consists of characters who wield axes and hammers as their weapons, and they can swing them with great ease. Vikings possess excessive physical strength and typically have a large amount of HP. In the DS version of Final Fantasy III, the class comes with the special ability "Provoke," which increases the chance of a targeted enemy attacking the Viking. All characters may take on the Viking job class in both versions of Final Fantasy III, while only Seeq can be Vikings in Final Fantasy Tactics A2.

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Originally Posted by Cyan

. for all intensive purposes.

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haha

and Pup was one of my favorite jobs as well

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Originally Posted by _C-a-e-r-i-t-h_

I dunno. MRD -> BRD makes sense. I mean, what FFXI Bard didn't use the Rune Chopper greataxe? :D

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bards are sneaky assassins in some stories. archers are long range damage dealers. Rangers are sneaky wilderness men/women with bows. I think bards can go ether way with rangers or Mrds. MRD's damage dealers, plundering type class like priates. But in this game not much in the sneak area if at all that i now of?

soo i would say. MRD > viking and Archer > BRD

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Originally Posted by Celtodeno

MRD > Viking

The Viking class is a very rare class that has only appeared in Final Fantasy III (both the NES and DS versions) and Final Fantasy Tactics A2. It consists of characters who wield axes and hammers as their weapons, and they can swing them with great ease. Vikings possess excessive physical strength and typically have a large amount of HP. In the DS version of Final Fantasy III, the class comes with the special ability "Provoke," which increases the chance of a targeted enemy attacking the Viking. All characters may take on the Viking job class in both versions of Final Fantasy III, while only Seeq can be Vikings in Final Fantasy Tactics A2.

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I always thought a viking should have some kinda connection with odin... seems fitting.

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Originally Posted by Lerris

A marauder is essentially a Viking. But without the Nordic cultural context.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Marauders are Frank with Francscas.

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The Franks were not a sea power. And their name is just as likely derived from a Germanic word for javelin as from the Latin for throwing axe. Marauders, in FFXIV lore, are sailors and warriors, just as the Vikings were in the real world.

Well, I really hope the archer isn't a Ranger or a Thief - especially not a thief. It might be good to stick Muskateer into this role.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

in that famitsu magasine interview they did specify that in the future there would be jobs that requires several (let's say 2 for now) classes at X level to unlock a job (i.e. CON + THM = RDM). Not sure if the exemple was from the interview or if it was the translator that added it as an exemple.

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but CON=WHM and THM=BLM so RDM=WHM+RDM not CON+THM

simple algebra

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Originally Posted by Griss

People are still in the mind set that a job is something other then a directed skill set with in a Class. Funny.

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It's not. It's a replacement to the class system. Just look around. Every GLA will be a PLD now. So why even have a GLA? Answer me that?

Why is everyone so content to let the new development team destroy the game?

SE, at least destroy it properly if you're going to destroy it instead of leaving half-completed residual systems from the old development team.

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Originally Posted by CamAlch

I think that SE has kind of screwed themselves either way they go with BLM and WHM.


I see your point but the issue with THM becoming WHM is that first off THM's have none of the traditional WHM abilities (Cures, Protect, Shell, etc) All of these Defining skills are found on CON. And aside from that, for anyone who has played through ANY of the THM quests, it is easy to see that it definitely does NOT fit with WHM. THM's are basically cultists, lol.




See now to me this makes perfect sense, but then the issue of BLM comes up again. As SE has mentioned there will only be one Job per Class, so if CON did get WHM, THM would get BLM? This also doesn't make much sense, while THM has a lot of skills you would generally see on BLM (Bio, Posion, Blind, etc.) CON again has the real Job Defining Skills for BLM, the elemental spells (Fire, Thunder, Blizzard, etc.)

The way SE has divided up the concepts of BLM and WHM, or at least the traditional Job defining skill sets, between CON and THM really makes difficult either way you go.

I personally am happy they are bringing in jobs, but ONE per class doesnt really work with the current classes, imo.

CON should have had the option to unlock BLM or WHM, THM (while a fantastic healer) seems to me to be more of an en-feebler, and I would have seen it as more of a RDM.

Anyway, guess we'll just have to wait and see which direction they decided to take!

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Don't you know that the dev team will relocate/change skill sets from each class? Correct me if I'm wrong but, I read it somewhere in this forum/producer's letter.

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Originally Posted by giftforce

It's not. It's a replacement to the class system. Just look around. Every GLA will be a PLD now. So why even have a GLA? Answer me that?

Why is everyone so content to let the new development team destroy the game?

SE, at least destroy it properly if you're going to destroy it instead of leaving half-completed residual systems from the old development team.

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Food for thought, though I'm sure I won't be changing your mind.
Lets say Gladiator is my favorite class, because I love DDing and its pretty good at it.
Oh now I can be a Paladin..But Paladin will most likely get restricted to Tanking..
Guess I won't switch to Paladin.(..and hope that jobs don't completely make classes obsolete for party play.)

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Originally Posted by Cyan

Food for thought, though I'm sure I won't be changing your mind.
Lets say Gladiator is my favorite class, because I love DDing and its pretty good at it.
Oh now I can be a Paladin..But Paladin will most likely get restricted to Tanking..
Guess I won't switch to Paladin.(..and hope that jobs don't completely make classes obsolete for party play.)

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You will be obsolete because everyone will want DRK for DD.

This is why they need jobs to be interdisciplinary. In other words, they need to make any job accessible from any class. Otherwise the armory system is a pointless, convoluted intermediate and they might as well just scrap it.

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Originally Posted by giftforce

You will be obsolete because everyone will want DRK for DD.

This is why they need jobs to be interdisciplinary. In other words, they need to make any job accessible from any class. Otherwise the armory system is a pointless, convoluted intermediate and they might as well just scrap it.

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Guess I will be the only one using Monk, and Dragoon, and Black Mage in my parties.

I officially put in my vote that all parties should be Paladin, White Mage, Dark Knight x6. Let it be done.

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Originally Posted by Cyan

Guess I will be the only one using Monk, and Dragoon, and Black Mage in my parties.

I officially put in my vote that all parties should be Paladin, White Mage, Dark Knight x6. Let it be done.

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You know what I mean, DRG, BLM, MNK, whatever, GLA will not be counted among the DDers.

So it will be PLDs only.

This exclusionary basis for the job system makes the armory system obsolete so they might as well throw it out. The new job system flies in the face of everything that the armory system stands for (freedom to make your own class/play as you wish).

SE screwing up their good features now instead of improving them.

We know little about how this system is going to stack on top of the class system. Unless the job-specific skills are severely overpowering, I don't see why someone using purely a class with a various amount of abilities from other classes couldn't be just as good. Sure it wouldn't fill a niche role within DDing, but whats stopping it from being just as capable of putting out damage?

I would imagine that while a Monk may be able to have specific skills that will aid in hand to hand, that a Pugilist would still have abilities that a Monk couldn't get that would help keep it up to par.
However, I will admit that I may be being too optimistic and just like the idea of a lot of variety.

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Originally Posted by giftforce

You will be obsolete because everyone will want DRK for DD.

This is why they need jobs to be interdisciplinary. In other words, they need to make any job accessible from any class. Otherwise the armory system is a pointless, convoluted intermediate and they might as well just scrap it.

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Everyone can want DRK for DD, but they might not be able to get it:

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Originally Posted by Kristina_Farron

Currently the "Job" names that finalized are: Paladin, Monk, White Mage, Black Mage, Dragon Knight, Bard.
** Maybe the axe and bow class are just not finalized, don't be afraid!
** There is no any evidence that bow class will get a job as Bard.

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Originally Posted by Lerris

Everyone can want DRK for DD, but they might not be able to get it:

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:D This is a very good point. However, I do believe we were using DRK purely as an example..

>.> Right?

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Originally Posted by Cyan

And yet some people seem to know everything about the mechanics of the job system that has been just slightly touched upon in conversations. Funny.

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I have never claimed to know the ins and outs of the system, I just have my expectations of it set firmly on what we know. Based on everything we have heard and have been told about the system expecting any thing other then focused sub sets of skills wrapped up in lore and fancy equipment is, and to be frank about this hilarious.

Then again seeing people froth at the mouth with interweb rage when reality does not match up to there fantasy world is quite entertaining.

I do hope bards have some instruments they can play. I'd make a band of spoony bards playing their instruments in Uldah. Charity for the poor, namely for myself.

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Originally Posted by Griss

Then again seeing people froth at the mouth with interweb rage when reality does not match up to there fantasy world is quite entertaining.

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Should I bold the irony, or...?

Seems to me they will first work on one job for each class, and then grow from there. Most likely this would mean multiple classes can choose from multipe jobs.

I could see:

Basic Jobs:
Requiring only 1 class, but Job could be used on all applicable weapon types.

Monk

• R30 Pugilist

Warrior

• Marauder
  OR
• Lancer
  OR
• Gladiator

White Mage

• R30 Conjurer
  OR
• R30 Thaumaturge

Black Mage

• R30 Conjurer
  OR
• R30 Thaumaturge

Thief

• R30Gladiator
  OR
• R30Pugilist

Ranger

• R30 Archer
  OR
• R30 Musketeer

Advanced Jobs:
Requires single higher level class or multip classes.

Paladin

• R30 Gladiator
  AND
• R30 Conjurer

Dragoon

• R45 Lancer

i don't care what the other jobs are long as they have dragoon in there

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Originally Posted by Cyan

Should I bold the irony, or...?

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Go for it, Should be worth a chuckle.

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

^ at this point, the lore is on hold. The fact that so much is changing, including the world supposedly, il start really paying attention to the lore when its ready for the new people. Its like handing a movie off to a new director and writer 20 mins into the film, might as well just re-start for the most part and do it your way.

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Well that's not really true at all... Yes they are reworking things, the world included (Gridania specifically) but they are working that into the Lore. They are not just changing fundamental things such as the landscape of the world without some in-game plausible reason. There have been several things posted that show this.

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Originally Posted by Acydcross

Don't you know that the dev team will relocate/change skill sets from each class? Correct me if I'm wrong but, I read it somewhere in this forum/producer's letter.

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I don't remember reading this, but I suppose I could have missed it along the way, thanks. That will make more sense if they alter the class skills sets to reflect the jobs they would specialize in.

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Originally Posted by Cyan

Jobs are probably the thing I am most excited for in these series of battle reform patches. I see people either supporting the idea or bashing it left and right. I have not really seen however(atleast in its own topic) what people think the jobs WILL be.
So..rather than argueing about the job system, anyone care to speculate on which jobs we may get? I'll start.

I'm going to assume that all jobs will have the weapon of the base class.

Gladiator- Paladin. This seems strongly hinted at, if not more.

Pugilist - Monk. Seems like a no brainer, even if PUG seems to be part thief.

Marauder- This one has me lost. I don't really know what job really fits in with a great axe. Sure Dark Knight has been mentioned, but it seems like a bit of a stretch. Other ideas I had were Warrior(albeit a little pointless, in my opinion), and perhaps Pirate(Not likely, but hey, great-axe weilding Pirates would be cool.)

Archer- Again, not sure. Ranger seems like it would be likely. Although I wonder, how exactly is an archer supposed to specialize in something other than..ranged attacks? Hm. Another curious question.

Lancer- Dragoon maybe? Although I guess I can't really imagine Dragoon being done without a dragon anymore(even though I guess it could be added in later.) Dragoon just strikes me as an odd first-round job. But there's my ffxi bias leaking in I suppose.

Conjurer- Black Mage. Fairly sure about that because...

Thaumaturge-White Mage. Because A) Thaumaturge's are by definition healers in a sense, B) 1:1 ratio on jobs currently, and C) White Mage seems like a basic need. I don't think they would add in Black Mage without White Mage. Although I'm not sure how this would work with THM's current setup. Guess that will come when classes get tinkered on.

Thoughts? Opinions? Irritated Replies?
Also, apologies if I have missed a topic like this that has already been posted. ;)

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I thought of one, "executioner" like in midevil times beheadings. I like it.
also for lancer i heard the name dragon knight from a JP player on another thread

I just want to say, because I feel like it hasn't been said before, that when you're coming up with "new jobs" it's really not enough to just take a synonym for an existing job and call it a different thing. Think about the connotations. "Pirate should unlock Buccaneer!" is like saying "Pirate should unlock a job exactly identical to itself."

Marauder is Viking. It's essentially everything there was about the stereotypical Viking, minus the runes and time travel and Navy SEALs, in a different setting. Archer and Ranger*, Samurai and Ronin, Ninja and Shinobi, Thief and Rogue, etc.

That's not to say that similar classes can't be implemented in a diverse way. When it comes to Knights, for instance, there are vastly different connotations between Paladins, Templars, and Hospitallers. One is fantasized as a holy knight, one as a heavily-armed inquisitor, and one is a bunch of Pirate Knights.

Suggestions and ideas are good. Make them. But make them diverse and compelling rather than just thesaurus.com. If you have an idea for a Job for Marauder, tell us what makes it different from the vanilla class and what the job would bring to the table.

Obviously S-E is probably not gonna implement any player ideas, but there's no harm in creative brainstorming, is there?

* I use Ranger in the traditional Final Fantasy sense, which is "ranged attack specialist." Obviously an Aragorn-style ranger is not just a bow user.

well said careith

Considering a Job is a specialization of the class, it would be more likely that the Job was a more specific type of the class. So in this case a Pirate would be a broad class encompassing everything that a pirate may do... while Buccaneer would only be involved in specific... buccaneering?

I think your example is actually quite accurate to what the devs are actually implementing... naming aside.

i posted this on zam about how i think it isnt as simple as Archer = Bard

this is my rebuttal to ---"that when you're coming up with "new jobs" it's really not enough to just take a synonym for an existing job and call it a different thing. Think about the connotations. "Pirate should unlock Buccaneer!" is like saying "Pirate should unlock a job exactly identical to itself."

"ok aside from archers and bards being wanderlusters, bards non the less use actual instruments as their main hand "weapon" and they sing. these are all things that are not in the files whatsoever.
if they havent developed a single new model since beta (mind you, the models that might not have been in your files at release absolutely does not mean those models were not developed prior to release, they most likely kept on the back burner for later implimentation.) and can hardly rewire their own developed equipment in a sufficient amount of time, then just imagine how long it would take to motion capture new animations of singing for each race and gender, conceptualize- develop- THEN render new models for instruments, as well as conceptualize and balance recepies and which mobs drop which mats for said instruments.

THEN you have the problem of the history of Bard in the FF series. Jobs are nothing but pigeon-holded classes. if Bard is going to be anything like it was in past games theyd have to conceptualize- develop and then render spell animations for new abilties. this would make bard an entirely different class/job than Archer all together and not just a party based version of the same class.
if they go the way of keeping Bard as the name but is basically a just a "Ranger" (my theory since i dont believe they developed new abilties, gear, weapons etc.) then you dont really have a Bard at all because the main aspect of being a bard both in and out of the FF universe is conducting your own music.

i think there is something more to the Bard mentioned in the translation."