Tanks Who Constantly Queue and Then Withdraw Trying to Get in Progress Instances

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Originally Posted by ispano

Except, as I said before, you're not fully correct. Just by virtue of doing what you're doing, you can easily make the lead group miss out on a tank that doesn't mind a full group, just to satisfy your need. Things like this, and the reverse as well, are why other popular mmos don't tell you what the progress is.

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thats not true.... if you look at the dutyfinder 23/24 people are built together... you are all in the same queue waitinig for the 24th person if i withdraw. the duty finder goes back to 5/6 6/6 12/12 the same 23 people are in the same queue together.

If they implement a penalty people will just stop withdrawing and wait out the 45 seconds. I guess they could start punishing people that don't accept their queue as well?...

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

you can still do those things.... like i said before to someone else. Feel free to have the "need" to click the commence button the SECOND it pops or be smart and wait 10 seconds before you click. anyone withdrawing is gonna do it instantly... so you can still go on about your way till you see the queue pop stick..

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So I wait 20 seconds, switch from BTN, lose all my GP then tank drops? Back to BTN, back to 0 GP.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

Are you dense?

It's been said multiple times that it does affect others' play time. If you have a problem with the assertion, refute it, don't just ignore it because it's inconvenient to your attempt to maintain your self image.

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how does it extend your time??? give proof because ive explained to you how it doesnt...

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Originally Posted by Aegis

So I wait 20 seconds, switch from BTN, lose all my GP then tank drops? Back to BTN, back to 0 GP.

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thats just the thing.... the tank isnt gonna wait 20second before he drops.. he is gonna drop the INSTANT the queu pops and its not an inprogress dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Sub-Xero

If they implement a penalty people will just stop withdrawing and wait out the 45 seconds. I guess they could start punishing people that don't accept their queue as well?...

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I have no issues putting the penalty to people who miss the queue after 45 seconds. In fact, I rather deal with immediate withdraw instead of 45 seconds of DPS AFKing because they're bored waiting for the queue. It actually aggravates me even more than the withdraw discussion.

If you don't have the patience to wait a bit for a run and just afk, then just don't bother. I know it sucks for DPS but honestly, the DD class can go do other things. IN fact, just queue up while you do dailies or hunt a map or craft or whatever. Just do something!

Many fails to see how it affects everyone.

There are many instances being formed at the same time.

Lets say you get a confirmation pop up, and one member decided to withdraw, while he is making that decision, a 2nd instances is being formed at the moment(maybe 3rd and 4th instances as well depending on the players).

This case, the 2nd instance tanks don't withdraw and they accept, so yeah, the first instance is still getting screwed, they are "pushed back" in a sense where they didn't have enough players to progress.

Also i have experienced, after 40th(after a lot of times) time someone withdraws, sometimes the DF kicks your pt from queue, meaning, you have to re-register.

1 Min penalty is needed for multiple withdrawal - just enough to prevent spamming.

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I think mainly this thread is aimed at tanks is because of the fact its is almost always 1 tank short to progress.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

how does it extend your time??? give proof because ive explained to you how it doesnt...

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You don't seem to understand...

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Originally Posted by Keoeson

It's not that simple. There's more than one instance, so in the time you withdraw the server already prepares another instance and once you've withdrawn 23 players are queued after these players queued in these other instances. If you're lucky you get into one these instances (most likely heals and tanks), the rest (most likely dps) has to wait for another full party yet again.

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This is how i normaly do this. I queue for inprogress looking for a 2/4 if it doesnt pop after 3 or 4 times i just take a full run. because then at that point it becomes obv there are no inprogress groups running and its starting to take to long to get in a run. So i do a full one. My goal is to get as many 3rd and 4th boss kills that week untill the piece i need drops and i win the role. So looking for a 2/4 inporgress run is highly effencent for me. This is why this feature exsists. I understand how you feel like it hinders your play but I promise you that your wait time is not inflated because of someone withdrawing. You would still be waiting for a tank to fill that last spot anyways. If there was enough tanks queueing to fill your group you wouldnt get the same guy withdrawing over and over. I am just playing the game with an option and doing it th way it was intended. If you do not like that then i'm sorry but you should just go one with playing the game. instead of coming here complaining over something that is not effecting anyone.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

how does it extend your time??? give proof because ive explained to you how it doesnt...

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2 groups of 23 people are queuing, waiting for one tank. Tank pops, instance is reserved, everyone accepts, tank drops. In the meantime a second tank queues, joins the second alliance, they go in, leapfrogging the first alliance.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

thats just the thing.... the tank isnt gonna wait 20second before he drops.. he is gonna drop the INSTANT the queu pops and its not an inprogress dungeon.

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Except they don't.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

I understand how you feel like it hinders your play but I promise you that your wait time is not inflated because of someone withdrawing.

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You're wrong. You refuse to see it because you don't want to see yourself as someone who jerks others around, but that's exactly what you're doing. Not only does it increase the chance that people will have to wait longer, it affects what they can do while they are waiting and not only that, it's just plain annoying to have it pop every 30 seconds and drop anywhere between 5-40 seconds later.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

how does it extend your time??? give proof because ive explained to you how it doesnt...

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Your argument would be valid if you were the only tank queueing. I know you like to feel important, but let's face it, you're not the only tank queueing. By queueing and withdrawing, you are wasting people's time because they keep getting you when they could be getting someone who will actually join the group and get something done. By the same token, you're not the only one fishing for an in-progress run, either. You may only withdraw 5 or 6 times, but in that time, the first group waiting may have had the queue pop up 20 times. It's not just about you, it's the fact that a lot of tanks are doing the same thing, that wastes people's time.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

I promise you that your wait time is not inflated because of someone withdrawing. You would still be waiting for a tank to fill that last spot anyways. If there was enough tanks queueing to fill your group you wouldnt get the same guy withdrawing over and over.

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Here, I'll use short, simple sentences: It's quite clearly not the same guy; it happens way too fast. It's pretty obviously a lot of guys doing this at the same time, most of the time. It does indeed inflate wait times, because it is a popular activity. Please look beyond yourself and have some consideration for other people.

Make the ban a week, anyone willing to make 7 other's queue take 30+ minutes deserves to lose a lockout. I also don't think the flag system should be in. If you queue more than 4 times in 3 minutes, you should get a week ban.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

You don't seem to understand...

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and you seem to not understand is thats not true.

thats not true.... if you look at the dutyfinder 23/24 people are built together... you are all in the same queue waitinig for the 24th person if i withdraw. the duty finder goes back to 5/6 6/6 12/12 the same 23 people are in the same queue together.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

2 groups of 23 people are queuing, waiting for one tank. Tank pops, instance is reserved, everyone accepts, tank drops. In the meantime a second tank queues, joins the second alliance, they go in, leapfrogging the first alliance.




Except they don't.

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except they do... the whole point of looking for inprogress is to save time... a tank waiting 20seconds then dropping isnt saving time. and defeats teh whole purpose of doing an inprogress run.

people like you i swear Ban ban ban for using a feature in the game the way its intended.

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Originally Posted by Calyanare

I'm pretty sure this isn't the way it was intended to be used.

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its exactly the way its intneded. I want to join an inprogress run. So i click the inprogress option. and then i queue and wait for a queue pop for an inprogress run. How is that not how its intended to be used.

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Originally Posted by flamds1

Im pretty sure repeatedly spamming withdraw until you get what you want isn't working as intended. Just joing the inprogress only queue and you won't be inconveniencing anyone. You've already stated you don't have any intention of joining a new start so why would you join a new start queue?

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there isnt a join inprogres only queue.... I am using the options given to me to join an inprogress group.

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Originally Posted by Synapse

You are assuming your the only instances being formed. There are multiple forming. Whenever the reconfirmation resets due to withdrawing, the players you see again are not the same.

Try this: After getting withdrawing 20x, and the party formed, ask anyone in the pt(formed from DF) if they had 20x withdrawals.

I bet they would not have had that, some may just had 3 and some may have had 30. I tried this with CT, after finally enter on the 35th withdrawal, then members said they didn't even get that many.

It mixes ppl around every time someone withdraws.

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That exactly what happens. before when i needed loot of first 2 bosses i would see this happen with the withdraw and people in all 3 alliances would be like "FINALY!!! that guy must of withdrew like 10 times!!!

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Originally Posted by flamds1

and when the status goes to 0/6 /0/6 2/12 how do you explain that? Where did the 23 other people go?

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When that happens full groups Withdrew from the queue to try and get away from the one guy withdrawing.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

Oh, wait, I got it all wrong, you checked the option to only queue up for in progress runs?

That option does not exist, therefore doing in progress runs only is not intended.

That option is to say you are open to join in progress runs also, not only.

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i could understand you guys getting upset if it actually effected you. but it doesnt. It doesnt inflate you queue time at most it gets your hopes up when you see the queue pop.

It seems ive used my daily posting.....

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

people like you i swear Ban ban ban for using a feature in the game the way its intended.

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I'm pretty sure this isn't the way it was intended to be used.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

thats not true.... if you look at the dutyfinder 23/24 people are built together... you are all in the same queue waitinig for the 24th person if i withdraw. the duty finder goes back to 5/6 6/6 12/12 the same 23 people are in the same queue together.

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Not necessarily just because the numbers are the same doesn't mean it's the same people. Unless there's only one group of people queueing for ct and theres more than that.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

and you seem to not understand is thats not true.

thats not true.... if you look at the dutyfinder 23/24 people are built together... you are all in the same queue waitinig for the 24th person if i withdraw. the duty finder goes back to 5/6 6/6 12/12 the same 23 people are in the same queue together.

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You are assuming your the only instances being formed. There are multiple forming. Whenever the reconfirmation resets due to withdrawing, the players you see again are not the same.

Try this: After getting withdrawing 20x, and the party formed, ask anyone in the pt(formed from DF) if they had 20x withdrawals.

I bet they would not have had that, some may just had 3 and some may have had 30. I tried this with CT, after finally enter on the 35th withdrawal, then members said they didn't even get that many.

It mixes ppl around every time someone withdraws.

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Originally Posted by KrenianKandos

I have no issues putting the penalty to people who miss the queue after 45 seconds. In fact, I rather deal with immediate withdraw instead of 45 seconds of DPS AFKing because they're bored waiting for the queue. It actually aggravates me even more than the withdraw discussion.

If you don't have the patience to wait a bit for a run and just afk, then just don't bother. I know it sucks for DPS but honestly, the DD class can go do other things. IN fact, just queue up while you do dailies or hunt a map or craft or whatever. Just do something!

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And here is the thing, i cant do all the things you mention when i queue ! All 10 sec i get the massage that i can go in the duty dn but then it begins with withdraw ! Let me see you how you craft or farm matirials or do questing ! And as DPS if you miss to enter you wait again from 45min to 90-120 min depends on the dn !

And all this because some idiots !!!

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

people like you i swear Ban ban ban for using a feature in the game the way its intended.

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Im pretty sure repeatedly spamming withdraw until you get what you want isn't working as intended. Just joing the inprogress only queue and you won't be inconveniencing anyone. You've already stated you don't have any intention of joining a new start so why would you join a new start queue?

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

except they do... the whole point of looking for inprogress is to save time... a tank waiting 20seconds then dropping isnt saving time. and defeats teh whole purpose of doing an inprogress run.

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But I can tell you from first hand experience, this is what many do. Perhaps they went for a drink, perhaps they were browsing netflix they and you are still jerking around 23 other people.

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Originally Posted by flamds1

Im pretty sure repeatedly spamming withdraw until you get what you want isn't working as intended. Just joing the inprogress only queue and you won't be inconveniencing anyone. You've already stated you don't have any intention of joining a new start so why would you join a new start queue?

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Because there's no way to join in-progress only, just a flag that puts you in both fresh and in-progress queues. If there was an "in-progress only" queue all the tanks would just use that all the time and nobody would get into dungeons ever.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

and you seem to not understand is thats not true.

thats not true.... if you look at the dutyfinder 23/24 people are built together... you are all in the same queue waitinig for the 24th person if i withdraw. the duty finder goes back to 5/6 6/6 12/12 the same 23 people are in the same queue together.

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and when the status goes to 0/6 /0/6 2/12 how do you explain that? Where did the 23 other people go?

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Originally Posted by MikoteAstra

And here is the thing, i cant do all the things you mention when i queue ! All 10 sec i get the massage that i can go in the duty dn but then it begins with withdraw ! Let me see you how you craft or farm matirials or do questing ! And as DPS if you miss the to enter you wait again from 45min to 90-120 min depends on the dn !

And all this because some idiots !!!

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I completely agree with you. That's why I'm FOR a "3 strikes and you're out for a bit" penalty.

Is the Join in Progress option being abused? Absolutely.

Should the person be banned for using the feature? No. That's passion overriding everyone's reason right now. I get that it frustrates you. I know if I was in your position, it would piss me off too. But to ban someone because a feature in a game is implemented and people are using it to benefit them is harsh. Should they be punished for causing simple and annoying problems? Yes. But not a ban. I completely disagree with that stance.

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Originally Posted by Calyanare

Because there's no way to join in-progress only, just a flag that puts you in both fresh and in-progress queues. If there was an "in-progress only" queue all the tanks would just use that all the time and nobody would get into dungeons ever.

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That doesn't make sense, Tanks have to go into a new party in order to have a "in progress party" later on(ex rage quit, DC etc)... lol.

That's like saying you want the middle piece of the bread.... but you have to make the whole bread to have a middle piece.


If they separate it, no one would use the progress function because it would be slow as hell.

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Originally Posted by Calyanare

Because there's no way to join in-progress only, just a flag that puts you in both fresh and in-progress queues. If there was an "in-progress only" queue all the tanks would just use that all the time and nobody would get into dungeons ever.

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Including the tanks because there would be no inprogress parties to join.

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Originally Posted by KrenianKandos

I completely agree with you. That's why I'm FOR a "3 strikes and you're out for a bit" penalty.

Is the Join in Progress option being abused? Absolutely.

Should the person be banned for using the feature? No. That's passion overriding everyone's reason right now. I get that it frustrates you. I know if I was in your position, it would piss me off too. But to ban someone because a feature in a game is implemented and people are using it to benefit them is harsh. Should they be punished for causing simple and annoying problems? Yes. But not a ban. I completely disagree with that stance.

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I agree with you!

But i do wonder if this 30min penalty will be enough! We have it now for leaving a dn in progress, yet in CT once people get the loot they wanted they are simply gone!

Im for harder penaltys so that people once and for all get it! Maybe 12h penalty !

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Originally Posted by KrenianKandos

But to ban someone because a feature in a game is implemented and people are using it to benefit them is harsh.

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That checkbox is there to say 'I am open to doing in progress runs also' There is no option to do them only.

Would you apply the same logic to a premade kicking a PUG tank when tank gear drops? The kick feature is in game and people are using it to benefit themselves. The difference is, we can report them, we cannot report the anonymous tank that drops and inconveniences others.

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Originally Posted by Calyanare

Because there's no way to join in-progress only, just a flag that puts you in both fresh and in-progress queues. If there was an "in-progress only" queue all the tanks would just use that all the time and nobody would get into dungeons ever.

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Well, if they weren't getting into any dungeons ever, they would move over to the other queue, no?

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

its exactly the way its intneded. I want to join an inprogress run. So i click the inprogress option. and then i queue and wait for a queue pop for an inprogress run. How is that not how its intended to be used.

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You're confusing a possible use with an intended use. Is it possible to tick the in-progress box and then be a jerk and continually withdraw until you actually get a run that's in progress? Yes. Did they add this function to the game just so you could do this? No. The intended purpose of the "join in progress" feature is to help out groups who have someone disconnect or leave (or get kicked, now) during a dungeon, so that they don't all have to leave and start over, not to save you time.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

its exactly the way its intneded. I want to join an inprogress run. So i click the inprogress option. and then i queue and wait for a queue pop for an inprogress run. How is that not how its intended to be used.

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Oh, wait, I got it all wrong, you checked the option to only queue up for in progress runs?

That option does not exist, therefore doing in progress runs only is not intended.

That option is to say you are open to join in progress runs also, not only.

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Originally Posted by MikoteAstra

I agree with you!

But i do wonder if this 30min penalty will be enough! We have it now for leaving a dn in progress, yet in CT once people get the loot they wanted they are simply gone!

Im for harder penaltys so that people once and for all get it! Maybe 12h penalty !

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Why would it be a different penalty than the one on when you leave an instance? It's one in the same as if you do leave an instance first, you're inconveniencing the group and leaving them dry. Also, the queue still will give you other people. No, a 30 minute penalty, I think, is enough. Besides, if someone wants to do it, they'll still do it, 12 hour penalty or not. 12 hours is a bit excessive. You pretty much remove that person's ability to do anything in the game which is wrong for something that at most can cause about an hour of problems for a DD.

30 minutes is more than enough :)

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

people like you i swear Ban ban ban for using a feature in the game the way its intended.

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That's how many of us goes.

Speed running AK? Ban!
Enraging ADS? Ban!
Lockings mobs out of the boss room? Ban!

Don't bother making the game better, just ban everyone. It solves everything.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

That checkbox is there to say 'I am open to doing in progress runs also' There is no option to do them only.

Would you apply the same logic to a premade kicking a PUG tank when tank gear drops? The kick feature is in game and people are using it to benefit themselves. The difference is, we can report them, we cannot report the anonymous tank that drops and inconveniences others.

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No, and that's why I also added in one of my post that this needs to be reviewed so you're taking my quote out of context in this case.

I stated that right now, the "Join in Progress" is not ideal because of the fact that people abuse it. But I don't think it's the player's fault for abusing it: the onus falls on both parties. S-E needs to implement something to counter this and that's why I said maybe add a queue for the JoP checkbox and have those people together. It would help them out and just add them in a queue that can ONLY do that and not join a run that starts.

It's not ideal but I do agree that it's not working properly because this was intended to let them help out others that have a tank disappear on them and don't want to restart the duty.

So this dude is saying that you can't have like 5 instant que ups and withdraws where only one of those five you actually get to see the damn window isn't pissing off the rest of the people waiting? To me the in progress isn't just for that but as a well I would like whatever gives me a shorter que time. There probably should be some kind of a cool down for people who abuse it. How you tell I'm not sure. I have missed ques do to being distracted or my child thinking it's funny to hit the withdraw or to just not hit it for me at all. Or hey I've been waiting for a while but I gotta go pee so of course it goes off. That probably shouldn't be punished as harshly.

Back to the instant withdraw after being qued bit I've had the wonderful message twenty time within seconds while zoning. I doubt this is the same person withdrawing or the same people getting screwed. I hope SE addresses this in the next letter.

I actually don't really care if people choose to use it this way, it honestly doesn't affect me in any way that muting either the sound effects or the game doesn't solve.

It's more annoying to me when people let the timer run out to be honest.

The "in-progress" option, I think, had the intent of: "well, there aren't any new groups forming, but we have this group already in dungeon, if you don't mind joining them and losing out on the earlier bosses." However, that's pure speculation.

Anywho, whatever the intent, the option is being abused--especially in CT. CT queue boss Phase 2 is really annoying (Phase 1 being forming the party). I think bans of days are a bit excessive though. I want to echo again what someone once suggested-- if you withdraw, you receive a 30s penalty before you can queue again. If you're crafting or finishing a FATE, no biggie. However, if you withdraw again, within say a 1 min period, you receive a 1 min penalty, etc. Long enough to deter constant abuse but short enough not to completely inconvenience someone who may have other motives.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

3 days ban for checking the "Join in progress" box, and wanting to actually join a group in progress?
Are you for real?

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It hinders people trying to get into content (thus proving it's a bad design) simply because someone wants to hop into a raid, get gear and get out of said raid if it drops and they get or it doesn't drop.

Is that honestly the point? They don't want to "simply join a group in progress", they want to join in only at specific points that benefits them the most and live right after. 3 day is pretty strict, but they should put at last a 5 minute cool down on people "fishing" which will let people who queue normally more likely to get in. They're starting to do this on primals now when there's NO reason beyond queue times to join a primal fight in progress as people dropping out are for a reason,

Wow, some people actually withdraw on purpose waiting for in progress.
Alright i can imagine that.. but thinking that this is the way they meant for it to work when they implemented it, seriously? I have no doubt that if they notice people are actually doing this, they'll fix it somehow(sooner or later).
Also as little or big of an inconvenience to anyone as it might be, who are you to cause it?
What if everyone did it, because if its designed for one to do it its designed so that it's accounting for everyone else to do it as well.
No surprise but some people clearly think they're entitled to more than others.

Tanks and healers who withdraw more than once, hoping to get an in progress run, should be hit with the 30 minute DF lock out.

Period.

I spent over 90 minutes in the queue for CT on sunday. I got my first party after 40 minutes (which i'm used to by now) but it took another 50 minutes to actually get 24 people to accept. That's enough to make a person quit playing, at least for a few days. If my FC isn't available to run with me and I don't see anything in the PF, i'm not gonna do instances anymore.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

there is queue already in progress for a reason.... Why ban someone for using the feature?? Say i only have 30min before i have to get off. Typically i can find an already in progress 2/4 with in 5min of queueing which typically takes about 15min to finish from that point. Woot just saved me some time got to fight the bosses that drop the pieces i need and i helped another group out by filling a role they where missing!!! really ban or punish someone for using a filter and helping other parties out?

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Can we at least ban them for spamming the feature? You know, if it is the same tank who does it 10+ times in a row, with 0 break, then do something. Because as a tank, you should know that if you decline and re-enter q, you are most likely going to get that same fresh group.