Game Has Gone to the Dogs

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Originally Posted by Scamperoo

This is just an excuse, I'm sorry that you in your own words, have little understanding of an MMO, I have been playing them for 11 years now and a successful mmo caters to all players at all times.

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You say you played MMOs for 11 years, means your main MMO was probably WoW, which was the start of when "solo MMOs" started croping up because prior to WoW most MMOs weren't solo based nor did they "cater to everyone", you either meshed well with the MMO or you simply didn't play MMOs because MMO was a niche genre barely 11 years ago.

As someone said, successful MMOs were ones that made money and didn't die off within a year of launch. "Catering to everyone" simply can't happen when a developer explicitly states his intention is to cater to one type of playerbase mostly, that creates an imbalance of content concepts.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Even in 1.0 we were able to go into Open World dungeons with 15 player parties which later was scaled down to 8 for dungeons that are now 4 man in ARR.

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It would be so damn fun if we could walk into dungeons with giant parties. Full parties and alliances and just absolute chaos... I wish there were two options - Duty Finder (for the traditional 4-man/8-man party) and the ability to just walk into the dungeon with however many (honestly, some of the low level dungeons I've completed without tanks, so why make people wait for tanks all the time?)
Sure, it'd probably make the lag problems even worse than they already are, but it would be so much fun.

The ability to adapt would be a lot of fun, too. The most fun I've had in dungeons so far is usually when we DON'T have the the 'assigned group' we're supposed to have. I've gone through with me (WHM) and a tank. And lots of times 2DD's and WHM. Having to look at what you've got and figure out how to use your job for it is great.

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Originally Posted by Edenholt

What this game lack is a REAL Open world content. Not talking about FATEs, I'm talking about exploration, things you can go around and without any pressure.

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I think this is what is wrong with "themepark games" over sandbox ones. If the whole "end game" is focused on just the next dungeon, coupled with instant teleports to said dungeons ... then there isn't really anything else to do. No reason to exit whatever hub is designated by the devs/players. WoW (at least TBC and Vanilla, quit after) let you build reputation and made you traverse the world to reach dungeons. FFXI was even MORE on exploring the world to complete objective. If your going to have a world and then proceed to ignore it (except for leveling), then you might as well just make a lobby server and save the money.

If that truly is "Yoshi's vision" then I don't know if I myself could keep playing, but I hope 2.1 shows they aren't trying to turn XIV into that.

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

Oh, this worn out idea.

FFXIV is a throw-back to the group-or-die games that have largely disappeared from the face of the planet (thank God), where your ability to progress and even reach level cap is gated by the need to find others needing to do the same; FFXI abandoned this model for the better a long time ago now, Tanaka saw this and that was what he did in V1, sadly Yoshi decided to regress into the dark ages with V2 in this respect.

Grouping is fine, forced-grouping to unlock core content (banks, mounts, etc.) and simply to reach the level-cap is so last century. There are many ways to 'play with other players' that avoid hard gating.

Hint: the 'G' in MMORPG doesn't stand for GROUP!

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FFXI abandoned that model and proceeded to lose many subscribers and unbalance the game to shit. Even the devs said they broke the game with Abyssea.

9 out of 10 DF are on its way out as they cannot handle it? You and i have had very different DF experiences. I cant even remember the last DF i have failed. Try leveling a cross class and get more exp. i rerolled a tank and it has made me a much better healer.

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Originally Posted by Magis

FFXI abandoned that model and proceeded to lose many subscribers and unbalance the game to shit. Even the devs said they broke the game with Abyssea.

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Yeah. Thing is, XI didn't abandon it "for the better", they did to try to put XI where other MMOs were which people playing XI at the time were playing it because it wasn't like other MMOs (and it was still a massively successful MMORPG.) So they went right back to the roots and even added in 'daily'/'challenges' to the mix without going abyssea.

My problem is that everything is designed with the "Theme Park" design. Problem is that it's so over-structured that the focus becomes doing the finite tasks as quickly as possible. With open ended design, the focus is on creating a steady group that can endlessly consume content or achieve a larger goal.

No, I am not advocating a return to the endless grind. What I am saying is that in an open concept, players define goals and work toward those- whether it be exploration, killing of something specific, or questing- players decide the criteria for success and when they are done.

The "Theme Park" model tells you what you can/can't do and when you are done. That means the focus is on getting "done" as quickly as possible and moving on to the next pre-defined ride.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

You say you played MMOs for 11 years, means your main MMO was probably WoW, which was the start of when "solo MMOs" started croping up because prior to WoW most MMOs weren't solo based nor did they "cater to everyone", you either meshed well with the MMO or you simply didn't play MMOs because MMO was a niche genre barely 11 years ago.

As someone said, successful MMOs were ones that made money and didn't die off within a year of launch. "Catering to everyone" simply can't happen when a developer explicitly states his intention is to cater to one type of playerbase mostly, that creates an imbalance of content concepts.

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You would be wrong then, my mmo of choice was FFXI, catering to gatherers, crafters, people who play in small groups, those who just generally like to be around real people but not necessarily grouping with them, social players, role players and the like seem to be person non grata in your sort of game.
Just because YOU wish this game would exclude anyone you deem unworthy to play an mmo doesn't mean that Squeenix feels the same way.

This isn't 11 years ago everything is online and people are paying monthly to be entertained, the only way to justify this investment is to cater to everyone. No matter how much you want to keep the genre pure.

I have played alot of mmo's over the years from 1997-present. Some of most fun I have had PVE wise was in Asherons Call one. I loved the death penalties. I recall having to carry high value items so you didnt lose all your good gear. I recall asking high lvl mages with healing help me get in some acid pits I lost a few corpses in. That was fun seeing them cast life magic spells on me while I was getting jacked. I recall DAoC was best for PvP. Oh the realm battles wow is all I can say and not WoW. But all in all I love FF14 ARR it is well made game. I love the ability of having one guy that can do any job. I am gearing up my 3rd job for coil soon be i80 or better like my other two jobs.

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Originally Posted by Edenholt

What this game lack is a REAL Open world content. Not talking about FATEs, I'm talking about exploration, things you can go around and without any pressure. They've added treasure hunt and that's a step in the right direction, but we really need much more than that. I love the game, but only standing in the city queuing and shouting for groups gets old fast. :(

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the open world can only handle a hand full of people in each area since its so tiny. there almost no mobs in the zones.

like strongholds were packed full of mobs and higher level then you in 1.0, now there empty and populated by weak mobs.

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Originally Posted by Magis

FFXI abandoned that model and proceeded to lose many subscribers and unbalance the game to shit. Even the devs said they broke the game with Abyssea.

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everything here in FFXIV is even more broken then abyssea. you just have to get tome stones to gear up & you XP so fast make aby look like slow motion. you atleat had to get key item to enter abyssea & kill nm's to gear up while gianing curor to but the base gear in ffxi.

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Originally Posted by Scamperoo

This isn't 11 years ago everything is online and people are paying monthly to be entertained, the only way to justify this investment is to cater to everyone. No matter how much you want to keep the genre pure.

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FFXIV is not a MMO, nothing to keep pure its a lobby game or just another multiplayer game nothing massive about it.

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Originally Posted by Edenholt

I love the game, but only standing in the city queuing and shouting for groups gets old fast. :(

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Party finder please use it !

So you're complaining that a multiplayer game is making you play with other people? And that all of these people are incompetent so every. single. one. of your dungeon runs fail? And then because you've never successfully run a dungeon you don't have any experience and no one wants to take you along?

Doesn't sound like the problem is the game or the other players ...

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Originally Posted by Taz

They have made the game so dependent on dungeons and parties to get these stupid stones that take so very long to get that it is difficult to play and enjoy yourself.

The duty finder and roulette are a joke - for weeks I have tried these and every time I get in one it is on the way out as they can not handle it. Part of this is the poor caliber of some players and you can not help that

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Stop checking "Join Party in Progress" just to get the clear tomes and you want get in a party that is "on the way out" as you say it. Because you will be in a party that just started. That is half your frustration. You can get 400 tomes in less than an hour if you get lucky with Ifrit normal on low roulette and then que for story mode (600 philo) if you also do high level. Thats 600 philo for 3 ques, you get less for myth bonus but its still a bonus. I am assuming "these stupid tomes that take so very long" must be a reference to myth.

Hmm, I run in the duty finder every day, even Crystal Tower. I have yet to have a failed run that didn't clear what we qued for not counting Titan HM (which is to be expected).

Perhaps you are referring to a specific encounter that is failing every time, if so it's probably titan HM... I que for the high roulette every day for the bonus gil and tomes and we always clear.

As for experienced runs, maybe you are referring to BCB which is also to be expected. Most people in static BCB groups with 1-4 or 1-5 on farm have been running it from months. It's only natural for them to replace someone with someone equally as experienced. No one likes carrying someone, and no one likes stepping backwards to take someone new. That is why new players should form groups and learn BCB like the rest of us did.

Really, you can blame the myth system for people getting left out of content and that's simple really. You don't need to run BCB to have il90 gear, but you do need to have been level 50 for months to have all that level 50 gear. So if you hit level 50 today no one will want to take you to BCB because you have no IL90 gear and you need BCB to get it, or time. E.g. in about 2 months of myth farming and some il90 myth gear, people will take you to BCB. This is what a lot of new players are suffering from. They get full darklight and it's not good enough for people because of the myth system.

If il90 gear was only from BCB it wouldn't be as big as a problem.

Really this problem is just like Eve Online was back around it's launch. You leveled up over time, so if you were a new player 6 months later people had 6 months of leveling over you. Same problem here. People can get the gear, but they are capped every week so they are basically sitting in shouts trying desperately to find a BCB group and can't get better gear because they started late.

This is why the Myth cap should be based on how long the game has been out.

E.g. it launched Aug 27th. So starting say September 9th or w/e they should take 300 myth * X weeks. So

300 * 16 weeks
+ 450 * 3
= 6,150

E.g. If you hit level 50 today you are missing 6,150 myth that everyone at launch that hit 50 the first week have received. So people at launch have 2+ classes with il80+ gear score just form myth tomes without touching BCB.

SE should make a way for new players to get that lost 6,150 myth back. Or remove the cap entirely, or change the way it's acquired entirely.

Really, what SE has done, is they have made a game where you are punished severely if you take a break from playing. I know a ton of people who lost out on 900 myth over christmas because they were away and not able to play. It's not really fair tbh. They need to make a way for people to makeup the myth they missed out on.

The cap should rollover into the thousands or 10's of thousands. If you dont get 450 myth this week and get 0, your cap should be 900 the following week, then 1350, etc. So new players hitting 50 today should have a cap of 6000 something.

I hit 50 just a few weeks ago and feel like I'm making decent progress in dungeons. All decked out in DL gear and have two myth pieces. I'm slowly making my way through the relic quest and have Titan left to do. I expect to be at this a long time but that is part of the challenge.

Most of the parties I've joined have gotten things done, even with fresh 50s. My only beef is my surplus of philosophy tomes. I do wish there was a conversion process to myth. Or dailies that awarded a small amount of myth. I do like Ryios' ideas though. You do take a hit if you aren't playing consistently and miss out of the weekly cap.

Find some friends and do some treasure maps. You can get 50 myth in the time it takes to do one of the new dungeons with random people.

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Originally Posted by EpiphanyCheshire

I'll never understand why people buy an mmo, pay for said mmo, and then expect there to be loads of solo content. It's an online game. The point is to play with other people. Joining a free company that wants to do the group content is a good first step. If you don't like this aspect of the game then this genre is probably not for you. This isn't meant to sound nasty, but it's the truth. There's plenty of single player rpg's out there that will offer the type of enjoyment that you may be looking for.

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They don't know what an MMORPG really implies when they buy it. They also don't know what it implies when they complain about it after playing it. It's rather sad. Not so much that they're among us, but rather the fact that they can't discern whether or not something is how it's supposed to be (i.e. what an MMORPG is).

Sounds like the real world and trying to get a job. You can apply to this good job but you need experience yet you can't get experience because you need experience to gain experience. :(

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Originally Posted by Coraline

Sounds like the real world and trying to get a job. You can apply to this good job but you need experience yet you can't get experience because you need experience to gain experience. :(

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And they is the problem. To many people want others to have experience when they need to run the dungeon or primal fight togain said experience. And watching a video or reading a guide does not make you experienced doing does.

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Originally Posted by EpiphanyCheshire

I'll never understand why people buy an mmo, pay for said mmo, and then expect there to be loads of solo content. It's an online game. The point is to play with other people. Joining a free company that wants to do the group content is a good first step. If you don't like this aspect of the game then this genre is probably not for you. This isn't meant to sound nasty, but it's the truth. There's plenty of single player rpg's out there that will offer the type of enjoyment that you may be looking for.

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Thing is ---> there many of FF series fans plays FFXIV , they play because they <3 Final Fantasy and not MMO . I am myself FF series fan so played every FF game , played FFXI many years and played 1.0 , and playing FFXIV:ARR atm , but here the thing is i never played any other MMO , only XI & XIV - because this is just not mine . XI & XIV is part of FF world , even if those are MMO , so FF fans will have to deal with it somehow .

Its just that were in the age of wussys. These kids are soft now a day. Like who cares if someone is griping about you being inexperienced just ignore them. A lot of posters sound like the kids crying about getting bullied and wanting to kill themselves like come on get some tougher skin. Like people saying their quiting because some lil 15 year old a hole is giving them grief...seriously. How about you use party finder and make a inexperienced group and run some dungeons problem solved.

I have no problem getting groups and not failing in DF . Maybe the problem is only yours .

The way players are demeaning other players know content with in the first few weeks is pretty bad, I had a bad siren run my first time the Tank quit because we kep getting stacks and told us to watch a video before going again and left, We knew what we where doing it was just a damn hard run and the dogs case for stacking crystal on DD and the healer was too fucking fast!

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Originally Posted by Leomoon

The way players are demeaning other players know content with in the first few weeks is pretty bad, I had a bad siren run my first time the Tank quit because we kep getting stacks and told us to watch a video before going again and left, We knew what we where doing it was just a damn hard run and the dogs case for stacking crystal on DD and the healer was too fucking fast!

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So who cares you were better off with out the idiot he did you a favor by leaving. If he an ass in this game i'm sure he's an ass in all the other games he plays too. That just part of playing mmo's you run in to tards and a holes.

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Originally Posted by Whiz

So who cares you were better off with out the idiot he did you a favor by leaving. If he an ass in this game i'm sure he's an ass in all the other games he plays too. That just part of playing mmo's you run in to tards and a holes.

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Yes but there is the trouble, once one guys leaves every one left we would rather reque then wait

Not only has it jumped the shark but gone to the dogs. lol

You're complaining about people not allowing other people into content, but have you ever considered you're not the only person in this position?

I dare you to input something in Party Finder along the lines of "[X] Dungeon, Learning Group, Have Fun/Don't Rage" and wait for people to join. I enter them when I want to learn content, and even if they aren't successful (and they sometimes are), you now have some experience.

You are, in part, your own problem.

I kind of like it. I think most people will get used to it in a few years.

I think field operations (I.e. Bozja, Eureka) make for good midcore content that you can do without the group/social organizing requirement or gatekeeping drama that more traditional raiding has. The problem is them waiting so long to introduce the first map (I.e. Bozjan Southern Front wasn't introduced until 5.3.5, well over a year after Shadowbringers).

The necromancer that never rests.

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Originally Posted by EpiphanyCheshire

I'll never understand why people buy an mmo, pay for said mmo, and then expect there to be loads of solo content. It's an online game. The point is to play with other people. Joining a free company that wants to do the group content is a good first step. If you don't like this aspect of the game then this genre is probably not for you. This isn't meant to sound nasty, but it's the truth. There's plenty of single player rpg's out there that will offer the type of enjoyment that you may be looking for.

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Is 14 the first/only MMO you've ever played? Many others, including beginning mmos have had viable solo content.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

Is 14 the first/only MMO you've ever played? Many others, including beginning mmos have had viable solo content.

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You... you do know your replying to someone from 11 years ago...

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Originally Posted by Thaciscokidd

You... you do know your replying to someone from 11 years ago...

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i'mma be real, I had no clue. But the point still stands...

This post is slightly over a decade old, but it holds up even in Dawntrail.
Doesn't help SE is doubling down on protecting a particular unit with their call for censorship that rhymes with 'siena dryer' after selfsame unit committed the very acts SE considers banning/censoring people for.

Holy 10 year necro, Batman

the more things change the more they stay the same

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Originally Posted by Blazer

Playing with other people is great. Being locked out of content or only having a day or 2 of content a week (and paying for it) is not. People need other things to do besides sit in town and "queue up". There needs to be something you can work towards on your own.

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That's a niche some of the relic weapon steps are supposed to fill, but they tossed that out in Endwalker and arbitrarily decided Relics shouldn't start until .25 at the very least.
Field Operations would have worked for this if they just implemented the mechanics in the field zones instead of making them separate duties that stop you from queuing for anything...

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Originally Posted by Whiz

Its just that were in the age of wussys. These kids are soft now a day. Like who cares if someone is griping about you being inexperienced just ignore them. A lot of posters sound like the kids crying about getting bullied and wanting to kill themselves like come on get some tougher skin. Like people saying their quiting because some lil 15 year old a hole is giving them grief...seriously. How about you use party finder and make a inexperienced group and run some dungeons problem solved.

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this has only got worse

The game's been dying since the day it started, depending on who you ask.

Hell, if you count 1.0, this game died before it even started.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Hell, if you count 1.0, this game died before it even started.

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But it's fine to die and come back better. That's why we liked A Realm Reborn. What we're struggling with is A Realm Declining Into Old Age And Stuck In Its Way.