Why Does Titan (Hard) Make People Dumb...

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Originally Posted by Fumamyena

So I am curious why Ifrit Hard, no problem, Garuda Hard, no problem, Titan Hard, people cant get out of their own way. This fight as the 2 before them is very methodical, but it seems as though everyone loses their mind and all of a sudden forgets that they need to avoid AoE's or stay within casting distance for medica when Tumult occurs.

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Im convinced that it's the music. .. especially after heart. Its crazy and matches the frantic nature of the fight for most.... probably makes them panic more.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

Im convinced that it's the music. .. especially after heart. Its crazy and matches the frantic nature of the fight for most.... probably makes them panic more.

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This is Classic!

I think a lot of it is this "bad publicity" that Titan HM has gotten that makes it really initimidating for players newer to the fight. He's this huge, threatening, party killing boss that thousand of people fail to kill every day, so people go into it with a no win attitude and then don't win. Myself included. It can be stressful, and stress causes people to panic and/ or make bad decisions.

Once you've done it a few times (for many it takes more than a few times...) and see the mechanics, it gets easier to deal with and you're able to be more objective about the fight and are a lot more situationally aware, rather than simply standing in awe/ terror/ whatever of Titan the party killer.

Sounds stupidly cheesy...but I know that's what affected me.

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

The only thing I hate are people's excuses for why they cant dodge. "lag" being the prominent excuse. You can't use that excuse anymore! Not since 2.1 up'd the response time on character positioning!

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This made me lol. So true.

I know people still lag (doesn't really matter the dungeon). But let's face the following like adults shall we?:

*We wiped once at the heart, you don't need to go to the store.

*I know, lag me, lag you, lag for us all lol. Cool story.

*No, building lb3 won't make a difference, lb2 doesn't either in most cases.

*Ok buddy. You know I inspected you, and ya the pvp accessories aren't absolutely horrible for pve, but you're not main tanking.

*Who is this Dragoon with all classes gear on 0.o

The only group I had in DF that finished started like this:

"Let's rok"

"Volume up"

"Pulling in 3,2...."

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

This all. Where the hell does someone get the experience? Premades only want experienced people. Everybody says DF is for learning, but yet after a wipe in DF everybody leaves cause they only want to win right away. The what, force your friends/guild to drag you through it? This game's endgame is looking more and more like TERA, where people only wanted DF to be used for speedruns and kicked all the newbies, saying they had to learn "somewhere else" =|
No wonder in the end people resort to buying runs, to get relic.

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Watch a video and go join a premade. As long as you understand that standing in shit is bad and requires you to move then you have all the experience that you need. They dont need to know you have never done the fight before and wont know until it is over. If its a farm group as long as you were not an idiot during the fight they wont have any problem with it.

This thread did make me laugh as I have had nothing but trouble on this instance myself. I have not attempted this since the 2.1 rollout so not sure how that has impacted on the performance. As someone who plays predominantly a healer and with 300ms ping, I really found Titan tough, not impossible but damned hard. I had to memorise each wave and anticipate the inductions of what he was doing. I only ever died if someone else dropped a plume away from the group in the way I was retreating/moving.

On my only successful attempt I was killed within the last few seconds with a Landslide of all things (how embarassing!)

When you get a group of new people it is always amusing to watch them run around like headless chickens and wipe the group, once. After that it is no longer funny...

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Originally Posted by Little_Gray

Watch a video and go join a premade. As long as you understand that standing in shit is bad and requires you to move then you have all the experience that you need. They dont need to know you have never done the fight before and wont know until it is over. If its a farm group as long as you were not an idiot during the fight they wont have any problem with it.

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I guess they'll know you don't have experience the moment you screw up stuff? I always guessed experienced is someone who can by now do the fight by clockwork, and I'm very far from that. Especially because there's difference between knowing you shouldn't stand in shit (I guess even dumbs know that?) and actually managing to do that. I for sure can dodge landslides but plumes or however you call them..it's another story. With my ping I need to know exactly where "bad" will appear to move away beforehand or there's no way I can't get out.

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Originally Posted by Darkwalker53

As someone who plays predominantly a healer and with 300ms ping, I really found Titan tough, not impossible but damned hard. I had to memorise each wave and anticipate the inductions of what he was doing.

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This this and this. Also as healer you need to stop and cast a lot....maybe I should wait for my Bard to be at that point and learn the fight with that class first?

Garuda sister phase is about 1203912309 times more chaotic than anything titan does. Titan is scripted and is done the exact same way no mater what your group makeup is... If your group is good at dodging you will get hit the exact same way every single time. Sister phase changes greatly depending on the group.

We do solo heal titans all the time and I see lots of healers wanting to try solo healing it. Not many want to do that with garuda.

But but but if you get hit with a bomb/plume/landslide you die... So true. Ever stood in a tornado/slipstream on garuda?

I think Garuda just has much much less to dodge, that's why it goes smoother. It has more randomness, but for a static pattern to be a relevant factor you need to learn it first. That's why people wo ran it at nauseam preach how it's terribly easy, while many others find it an impossible nightmare. Clockwork mechanic, your hand go alone without even thinking after you learn.

Am i the only one that did titan without any sort of rotation or clue by simply moving when he turned around...?

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Originally Posted by Megido

Am i the only one that did titan without any sort of rotation or clue by simply moving when he turned around...?

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For DPS you can simply move out the way when things are thrown at you. Tanks don't need to do anything special, though if they're undergeared they won't survive Mountain Buster without either an experienced healer or rotating their mitigation buffs. As for healing, you really need to be able to read the fight to do it effectively; reacting after something has happened isn't really an option for a healer. Their ability to succeed lies in anticipation.

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Originally Posted by Ashira

As for healing, you really need to be able to read the fight to do it effectively; reacting after something has happened isn't really an option for a healer. Their ability to succeed lies in anticipation.

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This gospel is very true of any established and co-ordinated group, unfortunately for most who attempt Titan HM via PUGs and Duty Finder the reality is somewhat different. Remember as a healer we can heal many wounds but we can't cure stupid

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Originally Posted by Darkwalker53

Remember as a healer we can heal many wounds but we can't cure stupid

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You learn the cure for stupid at level 12; Raise. Hehe.

That's a damn expensive cure for stupid, though. :p

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Originally Posted by SirGazuntai

There's also lag, which I've seen countless times. There are videos of people getting knocked off while they were clearly out of Landslide before I even bother getting out.

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Thank you!! I've been attempting Titan HM and no matter using DF or PF, any group that I am in can't seem to get it down.

My biggest problem is the puddles (or whatever they're called), because I never have a problem with landslides, the jump, or the bombs, but whenever I get stuck in a puddle, I can't seem to move fast enough, or I do get out- but still take a little bit of damage, then he does stomps, (or vise versa stomps then puddle), then the healers are so busy healing someone else that by the time the jump happens again I've either barely been healed or not healed at all...and then I die. And this is a vicious cycle of how I die.

Heal stacks seem to work better than not, but often times parties with DF don't consider them.

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Originally Posted by Serephine

Thank you!! I've been attempting Titan HM and no matter using DF or PF, any group that I am in can't seem to get it down.

My biggest problem is the puddles

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weight of the land ive memorised when they r gonna appear like after tulmur in phase 2 so i wait 3 secs then move around.... then next phase its right after landslide so i do the same thing cause if lag sets in n if i get caught in 1 atleast they arent stacked xD but i rarely get caught in 1 but lag has a habit of knockin me off with landslide when im no even close to it lol

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Originally Posted by Serephine

Thank you!! I've been attempting Titan HM and no matter using DF or PF, any group that I am in can't seem to get it down.

My biggest problem is the puddles (or whatever they're called), because I never have a problem with landslides, the jump, or the bombs, but whenever I get stuck in a puddle, I can't seem to move fast enough, or I do get out- but still take a little bit of damage, then he does stomps, (or vise versa stomps then puddle), then the healers are so busy healing someone else that by the time the jump happens again I've either barely been healed or not healed at all...and then I die. And this is a vicious cycle of how I die.

Heal stacks seem to work better than not, but often times parties with DF don't consider them.

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You can pre-remember titan's rotation and begin to run before the puddle if you have a hard time to dodge after seeing them pop.

Macro's are great tools for Titan, especially if you have lag. Open up a separate chat window for Echo alone so anything you type in Echo doesn't disappear due to Titan talking crap. I had 5 Macro's set up for Titan that helped the first few times I fought him:

/echo P1: Landslide, Stomp, Repeat until Jump.
/echo P2: Plumes, Landslide, Stomp, Repeat until Jump.
/echo P3: Landslide, Plumes, Bombs, Landslide, Plumes, Prison, Stomp, Repeat until Jump.
/echo P4: Prison, Landslide, Plumes, Stomp, Prison, Landslide, Plumes, Earthern Fury.
/echo P5: Mountain Buster, Stomp, Plumes, Bombs, Landslide, Mountain Buster, Plumes, Prison, Landslide, Repeat until dead.

However, I find that remembering the entire rotation (or even reading the rotation) isn't necessary.

A good thing to do is create some macro's like these instead:

/echo Phase 1: No Plumes
/echo Phase 2: Plumes after each Stomp
/echo Phase 3: Plumes after each Landslide
/echo Phase 4: Plumes after each Landslide, again
/echo Phase 5: Plumes after Stomp and Mountain Buster

Since Plumes are the only part you have very little time to react to and are what kills most groups, it's the only one you have to anticipate (If you have problems with Landslide lag, make similar macro's by using the above rotations).

Phase 5 is a little different, though. For Phase 5, all I do is watch for Mountain Buster. If he uses Mountain Buster he will use Stomp > Plumes or just go straight to Plumes, depending where he is in his rotation.

What these macro's do is basically make you focus on 3 different moves, yet 1 at a time, the entire fight. Everything else is really easy to dodge when you understand them. As soon as you see the move that comes before Plumes, depending on the phase you're on, either begin moving or get ready to move. Before you know it you'll know exactly when Plumes are coming and you won't be the reason your group wipes.


MACRO FOR HEALERS/TANKS:

/p HEALERS/TANK Phase 5: MOUNTAIN BUSTER after each LANDSLIDE!

Healing Mountain Buster becomes extremely easy when you come to the realization that they come after each Landslide. In the end, Titan comes down to anticipation more than anything else.

Part of the problem I think is that a lot of people don't know it's scripted and they try to dodge on reaction, which doesn't work as well as it should for whatever reason in this game.

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

The only thing I hate are people's excuses for why they cant dodge. "lag" being the prominent excuse. You can't use that excuse anymore! Not since 2.1 up'd the response time on character positioning!

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2.1 was definitely a nice improvement but I still see fairly often people dash out of an AoE a second before it goes off and then take damage still.

I still occasionally run into confusing scenarios where Weight seems to go off way sooner than it should based on visual cues.

Lag is still a valid excuse:
* I even started filming again the other day because gardua X started to piss me off to no end. In P2, she ported, we kill spinny, we wait for aoe, we go in dome... 80% of the groups dies while being inside the dome on my screen... How do you want to clear content when the game network code and server response time sux big time ? Why do we have to jump / launch a skill / change direction to force the server with the position ?
* I had time when my FC mate could see what I was doing but I could not see what THEY were doing ... (so me => server was perfect, server => me was broken, true, they can go through diff internet routes but I blame it on the SE side of things). Once i also had the reverse, we actually were able to tell the guy lagging what to do on a Titan HM and where to move... he stilled die, but it worked for like 30 seconds ^^

* And before their ISP patch the other day, I could do Titan HM and knew when I would get hit by plumes or not. Now, it's even more dodgy than before. Fortunately, i know the rot by heart and can move before anything happens

stupid 1k char limit

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Originally Posted by Chryzo

stupid 1k char limit

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Just edit your post and you don't have char limit anymore.

I think that in comparison to HARD, Titan Extreme taught the experienced gap that if you clutter up that the plumes are easier to avoid. I was in a group of mostly non-english speakers and used in auto translation to Tell them Follow me. I marked myself with a square. Mind you most of this group was Melee. They were much better to coordinate moving out of landslides/plumes and 7/8 of them were able to make it to the heart phase on their 3rd try at Titan HARD. Stacking on Titan is so much easier. There's a lot of breathing room on Titan Hard in comparison to Extreme but still having the practice of stacking really goes a long way and shows. Although they didn't kill titan - we made it to about 5% before wiping. Mountain Busted bad times.

[QUOTE=Darksword;1728424]My favorite "cheap unavoidable Titan death" is during the square pattern of bombs in P5, when he throws the landslide right as the bombs are about to go off. If he throws it right in front of you, you're dead. If you stop to avoid it the bombs blow you up, and if you keep moving you get bopped off the edge.

Also love it when you get three WoTLs that spawn in a triangle with you in the center. There's no direction you can move to get out of that big an area in time.
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1. You are doing it wrong. The mechanic is structured so that the middle line of bombs ALWAYS go off at the exact same time he landslides. You bait his landslide, move to one of the 2 other bombs in your line, then go to the middle line immediately after his landslide.
2. This is due to you not anticipating the wotl and realizing there are 3 people surrounding you. The only time you should get caught in this is if people pre-dodge right before wotl.