Coil Turn 5 /weapon level 95 logic

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

Since the number of adventurers that are earning the relic +1 weapons is higher than we originally anticipated, the team felt that increasing the item level of the Binding Coil weapons would prove to be a nice motivational boost that would encourage more players to challenge this difficult content.

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Why not increase the ilvl of all coils gear and not just the weapons? Coils should be better than myth since coils gear requires more difficult content to clear than myth.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

They didn't anticipate people making a business off of selling Relic clears - This is why the number is extremely high. Titan was originally their gate to relic completion if Chimera/Hydra didn't stop you. On Legacy worlds it's a no brainer, but on newer worlds with brand new players? Yeah. The main thing they should change is being able to completely silence/stun certain abilities.

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Yeah...I always forget about the newer worlds.

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Originally Posted by Randalthor

Why not increase the ilvl of all coils gear and not just the weapons? Coils should be better than myth since coils gear requires more difficult content to clear than myth.

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If they did that then people would be able to gear 2 jobs at once and how dare they try to use the armory system as intended.

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Originally Posted by Randalthor

Why not increase the ilvl of all coils gear and not just the weapons? Coils should be better than myth since coils gear requires more difficult content to clear than myth.

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Eh..they'd have to change the stats because for example Argue Motarboard and Healing Circlet is the same exact stats, so the Allagan head piece being higher Ilvl than the i90 SCH Myth gear would make no sense lol.

http://xivdb.com/?item/6089/Argute-Mortarboard
http://xivdb.com/?item/2950/Allagan-Circlet-of-Healing

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Eh..they'd have to change the stats because for example Argue Motarboard and Healing Circlet is the same exact stats, so the Allagan head piece being higher Ilvl than the i90 SCH Myth gear would make no sense lol.

http://xivdb.com/?item/6089/Argute-Mortarboard
http://xivdb.com/?item/2950/Allagan-Circlet-of-Healing

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What is making you assume that they would increase the ilvl of something without increasing the stats? I think that it's pretty much assumed that if they are raising the ilvl then the stats will also be increased.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

They didn't anticipate people making a business off of selling Relic clears - This is why the number is extremely high. Titan was originally their gate to relic completion if Chimera/Hydra didn't stop you. On Legacy worlds it's a no brainer, but on newer worlds with brand new players? Yeah. The main thing they should change is being able to completely silence/stun certain abilities.

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Selling Titan clears may be the reason a lot of people get their Relic, but the Relic +1, which is currently comparable to the Allagan weapon, requires you to do absolutely nothing. It's basically handed to you.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

Since the number of adventurers that are earning the relic +1 weapons is higher than we originally anticipated, the team felt that increasing the item level of the Binding Coil weapons would prove to be a nice motivational boost that would encourage more players to challenge this difficult content.

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This is a devaluation of the relic weapons. They mean nothing, what is more, they are a given if you want to do something now days.

In XI or in version 1.0 having a relic was a sign of dedication to the game, in ARR is just a stepping stone.

Please guys find a middle ground between the extreme casualization Yoshi prefers and the hardcore and time wasting tasks Tanaka created so well. Not everything needs to be handed like candy, neither one has to have no life to achieve anything in the game.

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Originally Posted by Rex

...Give it a rest already with the trash can thing. It's more annoying than the gear itself..and I don't even think it looks THAT bad.

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Yes, it does look that bad, One who complains about Complainers. /ignored

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

This is a devaluation of the relic weapons. They mean nothing, what is more, they are a given if you want to do something now days.

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How is it devaluing anything? Relic weapons are not going down in stats or ilvl, you actually need to upgrade them to even kill Twintania in the first place. Devaluing them is making them an absolute joke to get in the first place whether it's just the base weapon or upgrading it.

There's a problem when relic +1 is on par with allagan weapons and to even get allagan weapons you need upgraded relics. How is it a bad thing that you need a certain piece of gear(or in Twintania's case almost all ilvl 90) to get an even better piece of gear? This is how vertical progression works and it's been known since they launched 2.0 that this game would be vertical like 95% of mmos out there, if it's horizontal you wanted this is not the game for that.

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Originally Posted by Fusionx

Maybe this is an old FFXI mentality, but shouldn't "relic" weapons be the ultimate weapons that players can acquire? What's the point if these allagan weapons get an ilvl boost? At least add something in with the extreme mode primals to let us +2 our relics or something.

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You'll get something in 2.2 when they bring out harder content and gear that will be above ilvl 90. However if it's nearly as easy to upgrade as it is now then you will again have a last boss at the end of turn 10 that will drop something better than relic +2.

Maybe this is an old FFXI mentality, but shouldn't "relic" weapons be the ultimate weapons that players can acquire? What's the point if these allagan weapons get an ilvl boost? At least add something in with the extreme mode primals to let us +2 our relics or something.

Can't blame Titan kill sells completely. Those contributed to only a fraction of the populace in getting their relics...the baddies or the ones that group with baddies. I dont think anyone can even begin to guess how many people actually bought their win. While it plays a part, I think it was just a small part of the overall picture.

Im fine with them making them i95.gives me a greater psush to do twintania..also some people are so melodramatic "oh,now my relic is useless" useless means 0 dmg,0 stats.Im perfectly happy with my relic,and it will serve me well nontheless.

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Originally Posted by Pellegri

if it's horizontal you wanted this is not the game for that.

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Yeah I know, and I'm sad for that, because the FFXIV I played and loved was vertical and horizontal.

Now this game is a joke of it's former self, and I can assure you that when any other game launches that offers me what the original version offered me, I'll be leaving, but for now I'll stay because there's nothing better to play.

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Originally Posted by Fusionx

Maybe this is an old FFXI mentality, but shouldn't "relic" weapons be the ultimate weapons that players can acquire?

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Yes, it's the old FFXI mentality. If these weapons would be called AF weapons (as they where tentatively called) no one would never argue about being "something there should be exclusive, best in slot forever"

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Originally Posted by Fusionx

Maybe this is an old FFXI mentality, but shouldn't "relic" weapons be the ultimate weapons that players can acquire? What's the point if these allagan weapons get an ilvl boost? At least add something in with the extreme mode primals to let us +2 our relics or something.

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Hopefully they've learned their lesson with how pitifully easy +1 relic was to acquire. The mist should have dropped in turn 4, at around 3-4 of them per week. Relic +2 shouldn't drop anywhere before turn 8 and preferably turn 9 come 2.2.

If you want them to be the absolute best in the game, then they should drop from the hardest content. In that case turn 5 for +1 and turn 10 (supposedly) for +2 and absolutely no earlier.

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

Yeah I know, and I'm sad for that, because the FFXIV I played and loved was vertical and horizontal.

Now this game is a joke of it's former self, and I can assure you that when any other game launches that offers me what the original version offered me, I'll be leaving, but for now I'll stay because there's nothing better to play.

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the original ffxiv wasn't this linear, but it wasn't even near the concept of horizontal progression. Lol

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

Since the number of adventurers that are earning the relic +1 weapons is higher than we originally anticipated, the team felt that increasing the item level of the Binding Coil weapons would prove to be a nice motivational boost that would encourage more players to challenge this difficult content.

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What OP is saying is, are you planing to spread none weapon loot from T5 to T's 1-4, and have only weapons as possible T5 loot. If my armor is from T5 i would expect it same ilvl as anything else that drops from there.
My ilvl90 armor from coil should be no more out of reach, then armor for the next job over. Make all T5 loot ilvl95, or remove it from T5 and spread it in T1-4.

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Originally Posted by Fusionx

Maybe this is an old FFXI mentality, but shouldn't "relic" weapons be the ultimate weapons that players can acquire? What's the point if these allagan weapons get an ilvl boost? At least add something in with the extreme mode primals to let us +2 our relics or something.

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I can agree with this, even a unique weapon skill hailing from the symbolic reference (Excalibur - Knights of The Round, for example) would be a pretty nice way to spruce up Relics. Or even an "Occasionally enhances Jump effect" or "Cure effect" would be interesting.

I feel they're losing their value quite quickly, I understand the game is still getting onto its feet, but relics are meant to be the ultimate manifestations of strength of the soul of the job one is playing.

I don't like this coming weapon change.

I like how this game is giving me multiple options for equipmet. There is no single option. Darklight vs Vanya. AF+1 vs Coil armor. Relic +1 vs Coil weapon.

Your Relic (80) should be the requirement for starting coil. From there, you have two options for obtaining a level 90 weapon. Either spend three weeks worth of Myths to upgrade your relic (instead of buying armor), or you can obtain the weapon from Coil. It's a matter of time vs difficulty.

If these two costs are disproportionate, then you should fix the cost, NOT upgrade one weapon to 95. Either increase the Myth cost on the relic +1, or reduce the difficulty of Coil, so that it's more practical for players to obtain that weapon instead.

This is why I feel upgrading the Coil weapon to 95 is not the right way of going about this.

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Originally Posted by Luminessence

I can agree with this, even a unique weapon skill hailing from the symbolic reference (Excalibur - Knights of The Round, for example) would be a pretty nice way to spruce up Relics. Or even an "Occasionally enhances Jump effect" or "Cure effect" would be interesting.

I feel they're losing their value quite quickly, I understand the game is still getting onto its feet, but relics are meant to be the ultimate manifestations of strength of the soul of the job one is playing.

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Yeah, the Relics in 1.2x used to do this and we had gear which originally enhances effects, i.e original Darklight for mages enhanced Regen effect and regen didn't originally make monsters want to hate you outright (it worked like regen in XI.)

http://i39.tinypic.com/10dxqvp.png

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Originally Posted by Synra

Your Relic (80) should be the requirement for starting coil. From there, you have two options for obtaining a level 90 weapon. Either spend three weeks worth of Myths to upgrade your relic (instead of buying armor), or you can obtain the weapon from Coil. It's a matter of time vs difficulty.

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Here's the thing though, you are not killing Twintania without most if not all of your group having relic +1. Why should you get something on equal level to relic +1 when a requirement to get a kill is having that +1 already? It's 5 ilvls that you will not notice on any content most likely and yet they felt like they wanted to give people something extra for the several months it takes to gear up for Twin.

They also will be nerfing coil so the weapon will be easier to get. That will be 2.2 however when no one will even care about an ilvl 95 wep when there will be new allagan weps and relic +2 which one of those will most likely be easier to obtain than a nerfed Twintania you have to rely on rng to get the weapon for.

This is not a "problem" for me though :P LoliLvl70 shield takes away all possible advantages an iLvl 95 weapon would give anyway... Seriously.. Ancient Buckler plz?

Anybody caring that the hardest fight in the game drops the best weapon is just jelly.

I have no problem with Allagan weapons being i95, it makes perfect sense considering it's the hardest fight in the game thus far.

What I and a lot of others are annoyed by is that armor and accessories which aren't i95 (and shouldn't be IMO) are still in the Turn 5 loot list. They should be moved off to Turns 1, 2 and 4, as it makes no sense to buff just armor that happens to be in T5 currently and equally no sense for it to be just as hard to get as the i95 weapons. Stuff like the Monk Allagan cuirass should be in the earlier turns SE, weapons in T5 only IMO.

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Originally Posted by Kyriea

Good king moogle mog gives ilvl 80 weapons I think they said which is on par with relic NQ and Titan weapons. Relic has the chance to be made into +1 so it's not gonna put people off getting that, and in the case of Titan most people get their relics soon after killing him so they don't really try for the weapons anyway. The main reason people do Titan is to complete the relic quest making the weapons that drop a bonus for alt jobs you're levelling, or they sell wins of course but most likely if they're selling they'll already have relics.

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level 70 weapons, i got 5 of them

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Originally Posted by indira

level 70 weapons, i got 5 of them

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They're being boosted to i80 in 2.1 - Since as far as anyone outside of legacy servers knows they never existed yet.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

They're being boosted to i80 in 2.1 - Since as far as anyone outside of legacy servers knows they never existed yet.

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confirmed?
if so im set lol.

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Originally Posted by indira

confirmed?
if so im set lol.

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It's been confirmed numerous times. By Yoshi P himself.... It's not hearsay. just search for it.

I'd prefer though that Twintania drops tokens to upgrade relics to +2 though (assuming you had the +1). In addition to the other drops. Some people might prefer upgrading a relic to 95 than say getting a twin weapon - as those change your BiS items around a ton. Though the only way for +2 should come from Twin or equally difficult content ~

I dont mind the look. But the run animation is kinda silly looking

Twintania is not an easy kill. Even with full i90 gear our party sometimes hits the enrage timer and beats her with seconds to spare. Not to mention the two weeks of practice it takes to master the fight (less now that so many videos are available.) Heck, even Turns 1, 2, and 4 are harder than Titan.

And killing Twintania is only the first step. You then have to hope your weapon even drops. It can take 1-20+ Twintania kills depending on how lucky you are. Then Paladins, Bards, and Black Mages (depending on your party set up) have to lot against each other. There's a good chance players may never even see their Allagan weapon drop before better weapons are released.

In my opinion the weapons should be:
Relic +1 - i85
Allagan - i95
2.1 Weapon - i90

It doesn't make sense to me that this new i90 weapon we get from Extreme Mode primals will be the same level as the weapon we got from Hard Primals (Relic +1). If anything, the Relic +1 needs to be i85 or this new weapon should be i95.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

Since the number of adventurers that are earning the relic +1 weapons is higher than we originally anticipated, the team felt that increasing the item level of the Binding Coil weapons would prove to be a nice motivational boost that would encourage more players to challenge this difficult content.

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Too bad they didn't raise Crystal Tower item level and difficulty above Coil1-4, that's the place that's being wasted for lack of motivation to do.

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

Too bad they didn't raise Crystal Tower item level and difficulty above Coil1-4, that's the place that's being wasted for lack of motivation to do.

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You have to remember that CT was never designed to be as difficult, or harder, than Coil. It was delayed from launch because it was deemed to be too difficult. Also have to remember the this patch isn't aimed at those who regularly do Coil, but for those who are getting to that point - the additional content does benefit those players, but not as much as new players coming up to the end of the main story scenario.

Personally, I'm looking forward to doing CT, and I do Coil. The reason is quite simply that I play other classes, too, and this gives the option to gear those up to a reasonable level which greatly encourages the Armoury System - which isn't a system that allows you to immediately have all Jobs geared up the best in the same space of time, nor should you; you'll always have a priority/main Job that you play and will gear up the best first, and then the others will follow over time. This was the same in XI, in that you would normally pick a single Job to gear up, and then gear up additional classes when that content offered nothing for your main one.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

Yes, it's the old FFXI mentality. If these weapons would be called AF weapons (as they where tentatively called) no one would never argue about being "something there should be exclusive, best in slot forever"

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I tend to see them more as AF weapons than relics. They are "relics" in the sense that they once belonged to a notable person, and were lost and then reforged. I would like to see them being harder to upgrade in the future, or for new weapons that really do match the XI style of relics, in that they are highly valuable trophies as well as useful weapons, that will only be obtained by the really dedicated. There's a big sense of awe and achievement when you see people with weapons you can only dream of getting. It doesn't need to be as silly as XI relics, but it should be a commitment to create.

They were trying to have new servers catch up to legacy servers by lowering the materia requirement to the relic weapon. The only way they could have reduced the amount of relics is with the 1.0 method but this wasn't going to work for new servers considering how expensive and rare level IV materia was.

1.0 - 2-star item weapon with 2 tier IV materia melded (this had a very high failure rate and you took a chance of losing the weapon and materia)
2.0 - 1-star item weapon with 2 tier III materia melded (the item has two slots 100% guaranteed meld)

Just a while ago they said that the great majority of players havent beaten titan hm yet.
Seems they didnt expect people to do 30 wp.

ilevel 95 allagan pieces won't have stats changed - live letter

edit: it is

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Originally Posted by Miku_

ilevel 95 allagan pieces won't have stats changed - live letter

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It was a bad translation, the ilvl of an item determines it's stats. What he meant was it's itemization will not change so it will have the same stats it currently has, the stats themselves though along with wpdmg will increase to go along with the 5 ilvls.

I'm sure this will be debated to death till the patch comes out and people will be calling for dev posts to answer this before. But this is another "bad translation" on the live translation and mod translation side where they do not exactly understand what was meant. It is itemization that is not changing, nothing more, the stats will still increase.

It is changing then O:

This was just said again in part 2 of the live letter. Stats are being raised, itemization will remain the same.

Yep Yoshida just said it again, the stats will stay the same but the numbers are going up to match the ilvl95 (so yes they are getting buffed).

#inb4 NeoAmon makes a thread crying about BLM Twintanai drop.

Q29: With the change in the item level for weapons from the Binding Coil of Bahamut will the stats also be changed?

A29: The weapons will only have their item level increase by five and the stats will not be changed. We will, however, be making adjustments to some stats on the armor that can be obtain in the Binding Coil of Bahamut.

So... which is it?