Is Siren not getting a primal fight?...

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Originally Posted by casker

I know I know all FF games are different but I'm just saiyan

What if Shiva ends up just being a dungeon boss tho. I bet more people would be like WTF

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Shiva is primal
Primals we already know: Ifrit, Garuda, Titan, Leviathan, Shiva, Ramuh, Odin, Bahamut

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

Seeing as we didn't kill her I imagine she'll show up again. I mean damn she was harder than giaus. I hope she gets an 8 man

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She return in 2.1 as the endboss in the hardest 4-man dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Brady672

I don't think that's the same thing. The primals seem to do it because they're gods, however, Siren seems to do it because of magic. I don't know... Also, there are multiple Sirens, as in, a full race of them.

Also, I was thinking that in the fight, if she happens to kill a party member, she could use them as a thrall maybe? She does control the dead, so why not you?

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Well there are multiple harpies. There's Garuda, Chiruda and Supurna.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

Your "proof" is rather lackluster to support your claim. The FF series in general has plenty of regular and boss type mobs that have traits like that.

Main Story: History Repeating

• According to Mimidoa, a siren is behind the recent troubles. (Likely more than one)
• The siren emerges and begins to sing her beguiling song. (Not summoned)
• She summoned undead Thralls and wasn't summoned by them.
• There is no evidence that this Siren consumed aether.

The new video shows no new evidence that this Siren boss is a Primal, Summoned, or needs to consume aether to stay in physical form.

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You don't need the beastmen to actually make a ritual to summon primals. Garuda proves this with the Ultima cutscene that she can summon the other primals. What's to say someone isn't doing the same with Siren?

make siren a BRD spell

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Siren is a primal.

Proof: She has the ability to "touch" or whatever that mind control is just like Ifrit does. She has her thralls fight you as you see a creepy person running on their arms and legs at a player in the video.

She doesn't have a beast tribe though, it's sailors that summon her.

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Hmm, no. All what she is doing is singing. You don't need the Echo to be immune against it, only simple ear-plugs.
She summon undeads who lost their soul because they didn't have ear-plugs.

Mini siren pet for sch please...

Siren would be awesome as a primal fight. It had potential.

That was my server on ff11, even for a server name siren got shaft on ff14 :(

She could be a lesser primal with a lesser means to touch servants. I use to think as you fought Garuda and she claims she touched you ment siren. And I mean there are elder primals like bahamut and Odin so there could be lesser primals and siren could be one.

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

She could be a lesser primal with a lesser means to touch servants. I use to think as you fought Garuda and she claims she touched you ment siren. And I mean there are elder primals like bahamut and Odin so there could be lesser primals and siren could be one.

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Garuda meant Hydalin.
After all, Hydalin speak all the time to your character, not Siren.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Siren is a primal.

Proof: She has the ability to "touch" or whatever that mind control is just like Ifrit does. She has her thralls fight you as you see a creepy person running on their arms and legs at a player in the video.

She doesn't have a beast tribe though, it's sailors that summon her.

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her thralls are just undead, like every great ship graveyard. and she is a siren, singing for mind control is kind of their thing lol

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

You don't need the beastmen to actually make a ritual to summon primals. Garuda proves this with the Ultima cutscene that she can summon the other primals. What's to say someone isn't doing the same with Siren?

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titan and ifrit still had to be pulled out of their beastmen, this does support a connect to their being and the aether needed for the primals, or else garuda would not have needed them

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

She could be a lesser primal with a lesser means to touch servants. I use to think as you fought Garuda and she claims she touched you ment siren. And I mean there are elder primals like bahamut and Odin so there could be lesser primals and siren could be one.

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True BUT Garuda said touched and you do fight siren almost right before Garuda to which is why I thought it originally over the crystal. Also cause maybe the version of the normal primals "touch doesn't effect us" a lesser form might. I know it's probably not but it be cooler is it was

ITT: People who have no idea about classical mythology

Educate yourselves :P

I mean imagine you we're an all powerful god that couldn't do one thing that you normally could like touch. How mad would you be if a lesser god could. Which also was the reason she said "she touched you". Which unless you ate mindless slave to the mother crystal /selfrealization. Could mean siren did something to you Garuda can't undo

Garuda's scene was just a repeat of the event that happened with Ifrit earlier in the game, though. Waaaaay before you met Siren. Ifrit tried to temper you, failed, and it was revealed that The Echo makes you immune to it.

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

I mean imagine you we're an all powerful god that couldn't do one thing that you normally could like touch. How mad would you be if a lesser god could. Which also was the reason she said "she touched you". Which unless you ate mindless slave to the mother crystal /selfrealization. Could mean siren did something to you Garuda can't undo

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I still say Garuda meant Hydalin.
Hydalin gave us the Echo. The Echo make us immune against the primals mind-controls. Garuda couldn't do her thing with us because the Echo, which we got from Hydalin. That did Garuda very angry against Hydalin.

Don`t begin with that crap about "these are the only primals".

When Midgardsorm destroyed and Agrias`s core in the lake, at least hundreds of primals (ifrit and titan were cleary distinguible in the cutscene) were liberated. Probably they scatered all over the planet and not just eorzea (which is only a continent) so the actual potential for having more primals is way more than "these are, period." Siren could perfectly be one of those primals, as king moogle is and as maybe any other summon in the FF mythos can be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G3YUHbHL5w

Arround min 5:50. Watch the whole thing anyways, is great.

So, Siren could pretty much be a primal granted they don`t need to be summoned by a beast tribe -Bahamut and Odin as examples-.

And we have a lot of space to hold a lot more of primals. The only limitation is developing time and love for mythos.

As i want to belive, FFXIV someday will be more than just eorzea.

Siren MUST be a primal.

A primal where you don't need the echo to protect your mind is not a primal.

True Siren could be an elder seeing as they don't need ppl to summon them they just show up

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

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Nobody's saying "these are the only Primals." They're saying "These are the only ones we know about." Your argument that Siren MUST be a Primal because there are lots of primals falls flat, when it could be used to refer to literally anything in the game. Hell, the Crystal Tower MUST be a Primal, because there are hundreds of them. The Siren we've seen is just one of many. They specifically refer to her as a Siren, not the Siren for a reason.

And Mog's not a Primal. It's already been stated in the lore, by the devs, etc. He's a myth given life.

the fact that Garuda can summon two other of her species show thats there are more than the one Primal, Garuda just might be the one worshipped more. And to those saying that ff8 doesnt count, then why is Carbuncle count hes was just as useless as Carby except Siren would be a perfect egi for Summoner cause she was an enfeebling summon in 8.

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

the fact that Garuda can summon two other of her species show thats there are more than the one Primal, Garuda just might be the one worshipped more. And to those saying that ff8 doesnt count, then why is Carbuncle count hes was just as useless as Carby except Siren would be a perfect egi for Summoner cause she was an enfeebling summon in 8.

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But Garuda didn't summon Ifrit and Titan. It was the Amalj'aars and the Kobolds who were captured by the Ixals.

Carby is just a mathematic being

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Originally Posted by Felis

But Garuda didn't summon Ifrit and Titan. It was the Amalj'aars and the Kobolds who were captured by the Ixals.

Carby is just a mathematic being

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i ment superna and chirada

I wonder if siren is somehow related to Garuda?

Like a less powerful younger sister that branched off and does her thing. Elder or lesser primal a primal is a primal. While I don't think she is a primal she does seem to have enough potential to become one or a psuedo primal ala king mog

I'd also like to know about how primals came to be.

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

the fact that Garuda can summon two other of her species show thats there are more than the one Primal, Garuda just might be the one worshipped more. And to those saying that ff8 doesnt count, then why is Carbuncle count hes was just as useless as Carby except Siren would be a perfect egi for Summoner cause she was an enfeebling summon in 8.

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Nobody's saying that FFVIII doesn't count. But, once again, your logic is faulty. Carbuncle has been used as a summon in FF5, 6, 8, 9, 11, 13 and 14, along with Revanant Wings, Tactics, Tactics Advance, etc. Siren's been a summon in FF6, 8, and Revanant Wings, along with having a minor appearance in 13. If your argument is that Carbuncle is on the same iconic level as Siren, then you're just plain wrong.

With that said, HM Garuda summoning the two sisters literally proves nothing. They aren't primals, they just assist during primal fights. For all you know, she just creates them out of feathers.

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Originally Posted by casker

I was already kinda disappointed she got relegated to a story battle. Now she is a dungeon boss. Will she ever get a Primal Battle? Will I ever be able to obtain Siren themed primal weapons?

SQenux plz. Siren Primal Battle 2014 make it happen

edit: okay so Siren isn't technically a primal, but as DenzelTaru pointed out neither is Good King Moggle Mog

Basically I don't really care whether she is a primal or not. Is she going to get an 8-man fight is what I'm really asking. I was expecting that she'd show up as an 8-man fight.

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Siren is more noted as a recurring boss/enemy then a summoning in the ff series.

On a side note, Good King moogle is a Online exclusive, same as Garuda

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

the fact that Garuda can summon two other of her species show thats there are more than the one Primal, Garuda just might be the one worshipped more.

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They have always been considered named clones. No where does the lore even talk about her having a species. They were named in 1.0 to identify which was Physical weakness and Magical weakness and the names carried over.

The ability to temper mortals and grow stronger from their worship is what makes you a primal, not just being unique and strong.

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Originally Posted by FMElan

With that said, HM Garuda summoning the two sisters literally proves nothing. They aren't primals, they just assist during primal fights. For all you know, she just creates them out of feathers.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

They have always been considered named clones. No where does the lore even talk about her having a species. They were named in 1.0 to identify which was Physical weakness and Magical weakness and the names carried over.

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True but then why not just call them Garuda Egis then? I think there are more to their realms just those are the ones that happen to gain more power. I mean Salamander could be chilling in Ifrits realm for all we know.

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

True but then why not just call them Garuda Egis then? I think there are more to their realms just those are the ones that happen to gain more power. I mean Salamander could be chilling in Ifrits realm for all we know.

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First, because they AREN'T Garuda Egis. Second, because when they WERE named, in 1.x, there weren't Egis.