I'd love this game, but it's not for me due to the "issue" with AOEs

i have had no problems dodging at all in this game. but i have around 90-150 ping. if anything its ur latency.

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

i have had no problems dodging at all in this game. but i have around 90-150 ping. if anything its ur latency.

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You have no problem dodging because you've memorized the very simple fight mechanics and have just trained yourself to start moving 300ms before it even starts.

I wonder how many people who be face down in titan if his rotation was random.

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Originally Posted by whilke

You have no problem dodging because you've memorized the very simple fight mechanics and have just trained yourself to start moving 300ms before it even starts.

I wonder how many people who be face down in titan if his rotation was random.

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its the latency. u have about a second to move before the aoe pops. enough time to react unless u have latency over 200ms

heres a test for u. http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/ check how fast u react. and if ur latency is lower than that. u will be able to react in time :)

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

its the latency. u have about a second to move before the aoe pops. enough time to react unless u have latency over 200ms

heres a test for u. http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/ check how fast u react. and if ur latency is lower than that. u will be able to react in time :)

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I have no problem dodging anything in this game, and it's not latency. You know it's coming, and your mind/muscle memory is kicking in before the AOE even starts so that you can get out of it.

1000ms is not enough time to get out of most aoe's range, if you really and truly don't start moving until you have physically see the aoe indicator/cast bar.

well i dont know about u but im pretty sure i only move when i see it popping beneath me.

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Originally Posted by Rhysati

Not even remotely true. Guild Wars 2 is FAR more responsive. The entire game is built with the idea that there is no tank or healer and YOU are personally responsible for keeping yourself alive. The means to do that is very well timed dodging.

Seeing as I leveled most every class to max in GW2, farmed all of the dungeons and climbed the difficulty ladder in Fractals...I can say with absolute certainty that FFXIV makes dodging really, really hard. GW2 has the same 1-hit kill attacks as FFXIV does, yet somehow you don't feel like you got cheated on that game. When you get hit by it there, it's because you timed your dodge wrong or didn't react fast enough.

When you get his by them here, it's because the game told you .1 seconds before the attack lands that it is coming. Or hits you even though you are on the other side of the room before the circle vanishes.

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The dodge mechanics in XIV aren't even remotely difficult, even with the set 300ms response time (which is being changed to 100ms for endgame instances and PvP in 2.1 btw).

If you can't dodge in XIV, you're either having a serious connection issue (whether or not it's beyond your control) or you're bad. Dodging is easy in this game.

At twintania people were ocmplaining about how hard it was to dodge Twister with the current response time. They relaxed the timing, and now people are calling it "easy." Titan was never hard, nor are any of the other bosses where dodging is important, such as the boss of Dzemael Darkhold.

Prob latency related. I had the worst lag ever and had to resort to paying a sub fee to battleping just to play the game. GG

Unless you're playing from a place that just have horrible latency, then I'm sorry but you're just bad, and quitting cuz you're bad is pretty hilarious. The discrepancy between effect and animation is a well-known issue in this game, one that for the love of god needs to be fixed; however, if everyone else can do fine despite it, why can't you?

To the OP:

That same thing happened to me one time in Darkhold. I usually have no trouble dodging the stuff. But one run I would be a 6 inches away from it and it would still hit me. I could not dodge it to save my life. It didn't matter how hard I tried or how fast I moved or how far away I got from it.

I think there is a bug or a latency issue that kicks in there sometimes. I'm not sure which, but sometimes it is definitely off. And I've seen it happen to other players as well.

Sorry you feel the need to quit!. The people you party with must be assholes!. If you want to join a friendly EU FC then let me know. We will NOT persecute anyone for mistakes made in a game. We all were FFXI veterans and have our own little FC personal invites only (To weed out the assholes). We on Cerberus Server and my chars name is Pheobe Daggers. We would love to have you join our little family. Don't get to down on yourself give the game another try after patch if you still feel same way then fair enough!. Good luck Goodberry.x

If you moved on your screen in time and still got hit and this doesn't happen in any other game aside from ARR then it's really just the game's bad netcode, the devs themselves have acknowledged the delay being by design as a way to reduce stress on the servers, don't let anyone fool you into thinking it's all your fault because they're usually bad players themselves.

The devs do know about it though and have said they're trying to fix it in 2.1 but only in certain high level instances and not in the open world, it remains to be seen in how many instances and how big of an impact it'll have for people having issues.

AOE lag really isn't that bad once you get use to dodging it as soon as the cast bar appears. just think of it this way, AOE cast in the game is 5 seconds, on your pc you have 3.5 seconds to get out of the way. Find what the delay time is by testing it and apply that with you're brain to AOE. A more simpler way is look at the cast bar, when it comes up don't stand in there to finish you're move, you know its delayed, get out of there instantly. Don't be a fool and stay in there and move out last second and blame it on AOE lag when you get hit, you know well enough you will get hit.

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Originally Posted by Roris

If you moved on your screen in time and still got hit and this doesn't happen in any other game aside from ARR then it's really just the game's bad netcode, the devs themselves have acknowledged the delay being by design as a way to reduce stress on the servers, don't let anyone fool you into thinking it's all your fault because they're usually bad players themselves.

The devs do know about it though and have said they're trying to fix it in 2.1 but only in certain high level instances and not in the open world, it remains to be seen in how many instances and how big of an impact it'll have for people having issues.

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Strangely enough, I find the aoe lag to be less of an issue in the open world, normally. Most of the time I can dance around Svara and GG and never miss a beat, yet when I pop into a dungeon it's like it automatically adds a half second delay to everything I do.

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Originally Posted by gintoki88

AOE lag really isn't that bad once you get use to dodging it as soon as the cast bar appears. just think of it this way, AOE cast in the game is 5 seconds, on your pc you have 3.5 seconds to get out of the way. Find what the delay time is by testing it and apply that with you're brain to AOE. A more simpler way is look at the cast bar, when it comes up don't stand in there to finish you're move, you know its delayed, get out of there instantly. Don't be a fool and stay in there and move out last second and blame it on AOE lag when you get hit, you know well enough you will get hit.

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When did it suddenly become okay to force players to compensate for bad game design?

I think it has to do with people ISPs or not knowing how the game mechanics work, more then anything. I live on the west coast in Oregon the servers are Montreal that's 3000 miles, I have never experienced lag all the time on Titan or other bosses. The most I see is a lag spike that doesn't happen too often and it can happen in any online game.

A lot of the issue is people have to pre move and watch the cast bar its faster then the animation and the game uses cast bars to determine if you got hit or not. If you move out of an aoe after the cast bar is done you are getting hit no way around it. A lot of people think well I shouldn't of got hit because I was out of the animation. Animation is a good 1-2 sec slower then the cast bar which the game goes by.

There can be ISP issues in the way that handle the games data but there nothing you can do about that switch ISP only thing.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

It's a specific type of server-client paradigm that they've chosen here. When connections are working well it is technically the best method to use, and theoretically prevents many forms of cheating by default. No other MMO to my knowledge uses it to my knowledge though, that is why you never see it anywhere else. It's not Janky or even 1.0 technology.

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I think it's been proven the "cheating prevention" part of this technology does not live up to the hype; We had hackers and bots a week out the gate and nothing seems to be done about them, where as games like WoW have only had it's first real meaningful "hack" perhaps a year or two ago (Saw a level one flying around Stormwind with a boss AoE slapped on him.. the hacker was dealt with in 10min of it's arrival and we've not had an incident like that since).

After playing XIV 2.0 for the past few months, i can see why no other MMO uses this "technology".

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

When did it suddenly become okay to force players to compensate for bad game design?

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I don't think it should ever be okay to force players to compensate for bad design, and honestly.. this is the first game I've seen that design defended in such force.

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

I don't think it should ever be okay to force players to compensate for bad design, and honestly.. this is the first game I've seen that design defended in such force.

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It's a leftover from 1.0, back then we had about the same delay so everyone just kinda learned to work around it, the worst part is it was one of the reasons if not the main one why a new engine was coded, but yet the delay is still there for a lot of people. Even worse is it's really inconsistent and some areas have it far worse than others, especially the relic quest Chimera's AoEs. Then there's the fanboys who keep defending bad design, nothing can really be done about those poor souls, they just love the franchise and the company that much yet never realize they're the ones hurting both the most in the end.

Most people I know in aussie/Europe use programs like battle ping to help latency issues and dodging issues. They are trying their best to update their servers to reduce issues with dodging. Best way to avoid and get around it is predict the patterns. Keep in mind this is a brand new game there are going to be bugs and issues that need tweaked not even WoW when it first came out was perfect there was little to nothing to do and it was awfully laggy could have been the crappy computers back then anyhow.

The problem, as has been discussed at length in various threads that had tons upon tons of responses, is the netcoding. Latency does not cause people to get hit by AOEs when they were out of them. It makes that issue worse (as does server load), but it is absolutely not the cause of it, or it would be present in literally every other MMO.

I have been playing, and raiding, in MMOs for a decade now, and not once in any other MMO have I ever been hit by an AOE I was out of until this game. That issue just isn't present in other MMOs regardless of latency. I can also say this is the only triple A title I've ever played where instant abilities are not instant at all (my rage of halone can be interupted), and where I can pretty much get an entire small cast off while continually running in a straight line.

This is by far the most unresponsive MMO I have played to date. Yes, they are working to fix it, and yes I find it a very enjoyable game otherwise.. don't try to preach the game as something that it's not though. There are screenshots of Chimera being silenced in the battlelog, and still getting off Ram's Voice before the silence went away. Tons of videos of people moving out of stuff and still getting hit, sometimes as early as 50% or so of the cast bar.

Everyone ignores the obvious and goes with the red herring.

It isn't that Lag creates damage from AoE attacks. It's that every aspect of the game is controlled by Mob AoE. From the level 10 instance to Titan HM. All battles on the map, all battles in dungeons revolve around the area attacks that all mobs use. It's the only thing the game uses to make anything happen. They aren't special. They are on every mob. It's overkill.

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Originally Posted by Wobble

They are supposed to address the issue with the server detecting your position better in the update, but I do feel your pain. Wanderer's Palace for one. I have run it many times but sometimes on the first boss I just can't seem to get out of his circles. I would suggest watching the forums and see if things really do change for the better and maybe give it another month try out if you decide they have made some positive changes. :)

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I might take up my subcription again if they managed to improve the issue. I'm same as the OP, #1 or #2 is my issue. And I'll be able to see which one it is once they deffinitely, deffinitely improve the latency.

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Originally Posted by Wobble

I agree but there is nothing we can really do as players except hope for the best or quit. :)

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Wrong, there are things you can actually do to help make your connection better.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ove-Ping-Guide

If you're interested in a transfer, pop on over to Balmung and run w/ my FC. Latency sucks, but there are lots of ways to get around it and we'd love to help you.

Cheers.

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Originally Posted by Goodberry

Just ran Darkhold and died like like 7/8 times (lost count) to AOEs in boss fights. Every time I could die, I died. Healer called me "bad" and sincerely I couldn't argue against that, after all the times s/he raised me.
Just stating the facts making me unsubscribe:
1) Being a MMO veteran brings negative consequences, too. Maybe my reflexes aren't what they used to be.
My subscription here ends in a couple weeks. Have fun. :P

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Come play with me

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Originally Posted by Rhas

Wrong, there are things you can actually do to help make your connection better.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ove-Ping-Guide

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Your connection is fine. FFXIV just sucks hard balls when it has a connection that is not 100% optimal. The internet is not optimal, and it's very common to have some packet loss and jitter.

No MMO should require that you use a VPN (the only *trick* in that post that is actually going to affect your FFXIV connection). Hell, most AAAA MMO's can operate PVE just fine at up to 300ms pings, and you'd not feel any difference.

the sad thing about this game is that a lot of people in this thread are actually telling us to subscribe to another service to make this game playable. How ridiculous is that?

It's like facebook, twitter or w/e else people use for attention. They always have the need to tell everyone what they're eating for lunch or how unreasonable their mom is except here it's "bye everyone I don't know and people who don't give a crap, Unsubbing Lulz".

I just can't believe we're at the point where the game puts large colored areas on the ground to tell us where not to stand and everyone is ok with this. I remember in WoW when someone came up with a mod that did this Blizzard banned the mod. My times have changed in favor of easy mode.. and not for the better,

Slightly off topic sorry.

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Originally Posted by Despite

I just can't believe we're at the point where the game puts large colored areas on the ground to tell us where not to stand and everyone is ok with this. I remember in WoW when someone came up with a mod that did this Blizzard banned the mod. My times have changed in favor of easy mode.. and not for the better,

Slightly off topic sorry.

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Coincidentally, I just read something about this from the Wildstar people who are mostly vanilla WoW developers. I'm not really interested in Wildstar myself, but the article was interesting enough.

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Our trick for that is to add telegraphs to combat. Raid bosses in many other games will mark a circle on the ground to show where bad things will happen, and you have to move before it’s cast. Well, we introduce that at level three, then we just build on it. People will argue that telegraphs are easy-mode or we’re showing too much. No! It gives you a language, a visual language that you can use to make your combat all the more complex. Once you’ve established that, then you can have things like knockbacks and huge walls of fire you need to avoid. And it’s communication; if you’re communicating on the ground with what spell you want to cast, it unlocks a wealth of combos for me.

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Source: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/...wildstars-gain

I don't think visual communication is dumbing down either.
Mostly because I don't think avoiding things should be the core of challenging combat. Timing and coordination obviously involves avoiding, but they're also larger categories that can mean so much more. De-emphasizing void zones with telegraphs actually allow for more freedom in that regard.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

It's that every aspect of the game is controlled by Mob AoE. ... They aren't special. They are on every mob. It's overkill.

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I agree. This is a part of the problem. It gets old fast.

I'm confused by people who defend the game and claim it's all the player's fault and then list the third party software/subscriptions they use to make their game work. If you have to use third party software or memorize what will happen before it happens, the game is broken.
I just got the new LoZ game. If I popped it in my 3DS and it didn't work, then asked around and got told, "It's FINE, just download this patch from this place that isn't even Nintendo and you can play the game!", my reaction wouldn't be that the game is working as it should. So why is this the reaction from so many people for FFXIV? I understand, "I'm not having an issue so I don't care", but I don't understand, "The game has no issues it must all be on everyone else' end!".

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Originally Posted by Wobble

Wanderer's Palace for one. I have run it many times but sometimes on the first boss I just can't seem to get out of his circles.

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It happens for me aswell, alongside Magitek Cannons on Castrum Meridianum. As a caster I've got used to cast Sprint beforehand, but I can't do that while playing a TP-user job :/
I admit it's annoying, but not to the point of consider FFXIV: ARR unplayable for this very reason. I'm welcoming any improvement on the matter, though.

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Originally Posted by whilke

Your connection is fine. FFXIV just sucks hard balls when it has a connection that is not 100% optimal. The internet is not optimal, and it's very common to have some packet loss and jitter.

No MMO should require that you use a VPN (the only *trick* in that post that is actually going to affect your FFXIV connection). Hell, most AAAA MMO's can operate PVE just fine at up to 300ms pings, and you'd not feel any difference.

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Also wrong VPN is not needed.

Fixed my lag in the circles issue just by using TCPOptimizer (optimal) and adding in both TcpAckFrequency = 1
TCPNoDelay = 1. Haven't had lag in the circles since I added it in whereas before I could barely even get through places like the wall and all the AoE circles, like titan.

FFXIV was not the only game (MMO) I was having 'lag' pr 'latency' issues with. Other games are also playing much better as well for me.

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Originally Posted by Rhas

Also wrong VPN is not needed.

Fixed my lag in the circles issue just by using TCPOptimizer (optimal) and adding in both TcpAckFrequency = 1
TCPNoDelay = 1. Haven't had lag in the circles since I added it in whereas before I could barely even get through places like the wall and all the AoE circles, like titan.

FFXIV was not the only game (MMO) I was having 'lag' pr 'latency' issues with. Other games are also playing much better as well for me.

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By messing with your TCP settings and changing your ACK response frequency and disabling the niggle algorithm, you are affecting all other TCP based application on your computer. You'll be using more upload bandwidth across the board, and possible affecting your general download speeds.

There is no reason why you should have to fiddle with your TCP stack to play a video game.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The dodge mechanics in XIV aren't even remotely difficult, even with the set 300ms response time (which is being changed to 100ms for endgame instances and PvP in 2.1 btw).

If you can't dodge in XIV, you're either having a serious connection issue (whether or not it's beyond your control) or you're bad. Dodging is easy in this game.

At twintania people were ocmplaining about how hard it was to dodge Twister with the current response time. They relaxed the timing, and now people are calling it "easy." Titan was never hard, nor are any of the other bosses where dodging is important, such as the boss of Dzemael Darkhold.

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How comforting to know that there are guys like you for which nothing is ever hard. :P

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Originally Posted by PenutButter

Unless you're playing from a place that just have horrible latency, then I'm sorry but you're just bad, and quitting cuz you're bad is pretty hilarious. The discrepancy between effect and animation is a well-known issue in this game, one that for the love of god needs to be fixed; however, if everyone else can do fine despite it, why can't you?

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Thanks for the concern. Maybe I'll explain all this to you, later. :P

What's wore is that I usually get ko'd when there arent any indicators that the enemy is attacking. I'll be pretty far away and then bam! Dead. This only happens to me in the cyclops fate and invisible behemoth

Well, got to 50. Trying to hang on for now. "Problem" is Eorzea is so gorgeous a world that I am loath to abandon it. Now I stop DPS and run away from bosses whenever "I have a bad feeling about it". Circles are there only to trick us into getting killed. We'll see. To be clear: if I manage to keep playing this game in spite of these issues the merit is ALL mine. :P

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Originally Posted by AunaYuuki

Most people I know in aussie/Europe use programs like battle ping to help latency issues and dodging issues. They are trying their best to update their servers to reduce issues with dodging. Best way to avoid and get around it is predict the patterns. Keep in mind this is a brand new game there are going to be bugs and issues that need tweaked not even WoW when it first came out was perfect there was little to nothing to do and it was awfully laggy could have been the crappy computers back then anyhow.

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Fed up to my back teeth of people saying this is a new game it'll get sorted!. That's why we did BETA and ALPHA testing. You don't release a game if it's not ready end of story!. Plus it's been a few months now how long this gonna take?. C'mon wake up people I am a FF fanboy also but enough is enough!.

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Originally Posted by Eisah

I agree. This is a part of the problem. It gets old fast.

I'm confused by people who defend the game and claim it's all the player's fault and then list the third party software/subscriptions they use to make their game work. If you have to use third party software or memorize what will happen before it happens, the game is broken.
I just got the new LoZ game. If I popped it in my 3DS and it didn't work [snip for space]

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Your comparison to a 3DS game is flawed because the issues are caused by differing hardware/software environments. Every 3DS has the same hardware inside and the game isn't online so connectivity isn't an issue. hardware/network/software issues are to be expected and are common in PC games because no two people are in exactly the same computing environment.

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Fed up to my back teeth of people saying this is a new game it'll get sorted!. That's why we did BETA and ALPHA testing. You don't release a game if it's not ready end of story!.

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If they followed your mentality the game would never be released because MMOs are never ending and thus the issues are never ending as well. There will always be bugs, there will always be problems, no matter how long your alpha and beta are. They can only burn through so much cash in testing before it becomes wasteful- especially when some issues can only be found and tested by releasing the game into the wild, where many more people will run and play the game than they could possibly get people to test with. Simulations will only get you so far. You have obviously never worked at a game studio (or any software development studio for that matter), or you would understand this.

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How comforting to know that there are guys like you for which nothing is ever hard. :P

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What makes fights like titan "not hard" is the simple fact that they are 100% predictable fights which follow the same pattern every single time. The difficulty in virtually any fight in this game is simply learning the patterns and mechanics. Once you've done that, it's really not hard anymore.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

LMAO. Lets add typing to the to do list here.
So now I am running out of a Boss I-Win attack, dodging adds, healing party, communicating aggro to dps.

Got anything else you might want me to do while I'm at it? I should be getting paid to do this stuff. I could blind fold a special Ops in Nigeria with this kind of mutli tasking skills.

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If you're unwilling to put in effort, then simply don't do the Gorjimera FATE, if handling Gorjimera FATE already proves too much for you to take, you aren't gonna be able to handle the end game contents.

In response to Ahanalem.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

If they followed your mentality the game would never be released because MMOs are never ending and thus the issues are never ending as well. There will always be bugs, there will always be problems, no matter how long your alpha and beta are. They can only burn through so much cash in testing before it becomes wasteful- especially when some issues can only be found and tested by releasing the game into the wild, where many more people will run and play the game than they could possibly get people to test with. Simulations will only get you so far. You have obviously never worked at a game studio (or any software development studio for that matter), or you would understand this.

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Just because I don't work in computing doesn't mean I got to accept constant lag in dungeons and error code 90k every hour , your argument just sounds ridiculous!. I work in Oil & Gas industry it's like me saying oh that tank of gas you put in your car has f****d your engine but hey we were trying out a new type of fuel I'm sorry your car is broke deal with it!.