A sign that I should just stop playing this game?

Don't help people unless you actually want to help them and never expect anything in return. That's the best advice I can give you.

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Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

Since playing this game I've always felt it was important to help out other players, and managed to always put their needs before mine. And now I've sort of created this image where everyone just "expects" me to help, even at the cost of my own time. And at first, I didn't mind, I enjoy helping others and building friendships with those around me. I love seeing others happy, and how excited they are when they get their first relic or when a piece of allagan gear drops that they really wanted. It's what I joined MMOs for. Even if I'm not on often, it's one of the biggest attractions with playing in a community.

But it feels as if whenever it comes to me, my "wants" they are thrown by the wayside by everyone, including the very ones I strive to help. But I mean, it's a game; I shouldn't let things like this bother me. The game is intended for fun, not to feel bitter or jaded. I almost feel sort of juvenile for reacting this way.

Though, lately, I've been finding it increasingly difficult to ignore it, and it almost hurts my feelings that everything I do for everyone is seemingly swept under the rug. Perhaps I expected the community to be a little different, and maybe that means I'm naive. I don't even know.

What I'm getting at is, when a game begins affecting how you feel in real life that maybe the best choice is to stop playing. That it's a red flag that the game isn't serving the purpose it was originally intended to.

Am I the only one who's felt this way?

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You are just too kind :)
Someone out there will be able to pay you back for your disponibility.

Selfishness is a wide social problem all over the world. And when it's not individual selfishness, it's tribe / family / clan selfishness.

The game won't change the society, it just reflect it. Somehow FFXI was much different, it was also a different community.

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Originally Posted by Hestern_Nestern

Your original post describes my life in a nutshell (or in a pie...I'd rather it be pie).

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I might have lost my point somewhere around the last orbit of the moon...

But yeah I think you're cool. :)

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Thank you.

Your response has really helped me understand that while the needs of others should never be something to arbitrarily disregard, it is very important that I also recognize myself as someone who deserves, in equal measure, to have their needs met. I'm relieved to know that I'm not the only one who thinks in this way, that when someone comes for help I imagine the person behind the character and their frustration with whichever roadblock is preventing them from reaching a goal within the game. And if I can bring someone enjoyment from the game by helping them reach that goal, I find that I have a very hard time rejecting them.

I really appreciate your response.

Honestly, this is why I never push. I've been trying to do the relic quests and I'll typically ask the FC once "Does anyone need or want BLANK?". If people want in, or want to help, I except it. If no one says anything, I just go and try to pug what ever I'm trying to do. I did Chimera, Hydra and AK in a PUG for the quest, but my FC did jump in and help me out with Ifrit, which was nice of them. More people really do need to adopt this way of thinking.

Honestly, if I were you OP, I'd help the people that you feel like helping and ignore the rest. The problem with people that keep asking and asking is that they rarely stop once they know you won't say no. Even worse are the people that start to bad mouth you after helping them over and over because you've cut them off. That's actually happened to me in RL.

You should stop helping people for awhile. Be greedy and make yourself happy instead of worrying about making strangers in a video game happy. If you can't tell people, "No" then I feel very bad for you if that same trait bleeds over into your life outside of the game. I feel like you're a TV housewife who is finally realizing that you need to focus on yourself a bit more lol...

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Originally Posted by Freyane

Selfishness is a wide social problem all over the world. And when it's not individual selfishness, it's tribe / family / clan selfishness.

The game won't change the society, it just reflect it. Somehow FFXI was much different, it was also a different community.

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Got a good chuckle out of this. I saw people beg for help for days to get help on things like CoP missions, AF, nation missions, Maat quests etc. Good freaking luck getting someone to help you through pre-nerf CoP after they had done it once. The FFXI community was mainly trash with a few kind/helpful people just like every other MMO.

This happens all of the time in real life too. There are plenty of people out there who will gladly take advantage of everything you're willing to give them and not care one bit to help in return.

Quit the game if you like thats up to you, but it just sounds like you need a new community to play with. Be it a new FC, LSs etc.

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Originally Posted by Versiroth

Honestly, this is why I never push. I've been trying to do the relic quests and I'll typically ask the FC once "Does anyone need or want BLANK?". If people want in, or want to help, I except it. If no one says anything, I just go and try to pug what ever I'm trying to do. I did Chimera, Hydra and AK in a PUG for the quest, but my FC did jump in and help me out with Ifrit, which was nice of them. More people really do need to adopt this way of thinking.

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As far as I'm concerned, you join an FC (especially a large one) to be part of that community...if they don't help their members, what good are they? Why stay?

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Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

And if I can bring someone enjoyment from the game by helping them reach that goal, I find that I have a very hard time rejecting them.

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First thing to learn is that you aren't rejecting them by saying no. They will be fine, trust me. They'll just ask someone else, and eventually will get the help they need. They won't think any less of you. Also, it's just a game, and if you aren't having fun, then what's the point?

In my FC its generally known that people can just send me an invite and i'll more often than not just take it and go help with whatever. Unless I don't feel like it, in which case i just...say no. It's no big deal if you have cool people as FCmates.

Awwww

I felt the same...
Muttering you don't need to read actually

sorry that I ignore 2 pages posts and just want to express my desperateness on similar exp

Everytime ppl in ls or fc asked for help i always jumps out first, or at least say something like "sorry i'm occupied", so ppl won't feel ignored. i don't usually ask for help. I hate, must super stressed on the hate part, to create trouble for the others. therefore, when i asked something, it's got to be i'm desperately needed help. They usually got ignored... 15+ members online but I'll usually get completely silent treatment. Lots of time even a simple greeting got ignored. In the end, i started get used to it... I knew perfectly, sometimes, they like to speak inside their own channel, party chat or focus on battle. However, it's like "even I can do it, why can't they" feeling bugs me. It doesn't make me want to stop playing, it just reminds me how much I don't want to be one of them. To make people felt welcomed, I even made greeting a macro just in case ppl {/wave} at LS/FC channel during my intense dungeon healing...

But... i don't need to be nice forever, right? I knew what i need to do since long time ago at alpha test. I kept telling myself "do not accept the ls/fc invite. You will just get ignored and left in the dark corner like 1.0. You will never get in their central benefit sharing circle no matter what you do." i even found a nice group of ppl, monitoring their activities and liked what they were doing since beta test. however, on the launch day, out of surprised i received the invites... my whole world/plan was crashing there. I knew i can't join, but i also feel bad to hit no. I was stoned and watched the FC and LS invites counting down numbers dropping in front of me. It's one of the hardest 200 seconds in my life. I stupidly hit yes around 30 seconds left.
now everything just repeating itself, always left in the dark/ignored corner alone, no matter how much I greet, help or interact with FC/LS. outside the central benefit sharing circle means alone.
oh well, in short, my experience maybe not that bad, so you guys should keep it easy. Just like I always trying to tell myself "don't over-react on things". maybe I did over-reacted. I just didn't know how much it hurts. I started to have tears in my eyes when I typed these ^^: during the meeting =.=. Well, the presenter was boring. :P and room was dark...

awwwww /feed and /bearhug Hestern

This actually is one of those reasons why I got burnt out in XI and pretty much every MMO I've ever played. It came to a point where my time in the game was already determined by others before I even started logging in because they knew what my window was.

The way I see it, you have 3 options:
1. Learn to say No. Your enjoyment matters, too.
2. Let them go -- find a new group, or even a different server to get a fresh start.
3. Leave the game -- be it completely or temporarily.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

As far as I'm concerned, you join an FC (especially a large one) to be part of that community...if they don't help their members, what good are they? Why stay?

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Well, they do help. Some of them are always asking if someone needs help. And they likely would have help me with the rest of the quest if I begged like a lot of people do, but I'm just not that way. I realize that they're all doing stuff too and it's not really fair to expect people to drop what they're doing every time someone says "help".

I'll just mirror other people's sentiments and say you just have to know when to say no. There's nothing wrong with helping people of course, but you're paying to play this game like every other person in this game and there's nothing wrong with pursuing your own interests when you feel so inclined. I'll help people that I don't feel are advantageous (aka 'sponges' (taken from an earlier post)) as I know it'll pay for itself later on, but if I'm busy with something don't expect me to just drop everything to help.

There's no reason to quit playing the game if you enjoy every other aspect of it apart from feeling you have no time to yourself though.

I'm know as someone who will say 'yes' to pretty much any request. I'll run anything, gather anything or craft anything you ask.
I have had to put my foot down a couple of times. Like when I needed an AV clear and all anyone wanted to do was AK. I ran a couple of AK and then announced that I was joining no more AK until I cleared my AV.

Sometimes I do want to yell "But I help you with stuff all the time..." when no one answered my pleas for help.

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Originally Posted by Versiroth

SNIP

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There's a difference between asking for help and begging; from what I'm getting from your posts is you really aren't even asking, or see the two as the same thing.

I saw you're in a 300+ person FC...honestly, there should be someone willing to help with any post-50 content on during peak hours in an FC that large, possibly several people. Heck, I would expect there to be many people looking for that content on every day, or at least every week, so you can all get it done at the same time.

It never hurts to ask "hey, I need to run X-dungeon, anyone want to help?", and unless you WANT to PUG/DF it, you should ask your FC for help. That's almost always why you join an FC of that size; to avoid the randoms. Otherwise, unless you're in it just for the fact that you're in it or for a few people you play with a lot (which doesn't seem to be the case with you), I have no idea why you're sticking with them if you're not being part of the FC.

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Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

Thank you.

I really appreciate your response.

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:) :) :) :) :)

Kyah Almasy, I was like you FFXI :D and it did feel good to know I helped someone out. I'm leveling GLD for that reason on ffxiv actually to help friends out.

But I've simmered down some and now I more pick and choose. But if I'm on, (and not in a lowbee dungeon instance) I'm there to help ya, and then I'll stay in touch with ya :)

I'm Excalibur as well so if your on tonight I'll send you a tell see if you need/want help. Or just want to chit-chat :)

The problem here isn't the game; it's how you're allowing other people to treat you. I used to have the same problem, just find your backbone and learn how to say no :) It gets easier after the few times, trust me!

Not alone in this boat, sis and I seem to get roped into things for being too "generous"

Kyah,

I left behind some very good friends on Excalibur, and I'd like to reference them to you. The only reason why I left was because I felt I had to condense down my hobbies and make a new start of things to counter what was a very severe bout of depression (I moved to an RP server.)

Anyways, look up Neelia Lyrahma of the Old Timer's Guild. (My old 1.0 LS, very low drama, though it's gotten huge since I left it.) She's the Hospitality officer there and the nicest Bird Lady I know. Tell her Lin/Hyrist sent you and she'll take care of ya.

I know how you feel, helping people can be great and should be encouraged, but sometimes you have to put your foot down.

You're not alone ^^

I know exactly how you feel Kyah, I've gone above and beyond to help any and everyone in need but whenever I want to get something done for myself everything goes wrong as if I just became the greatest evil on Balmung. I had people snap at me, claim I am the worst person alive and much much more.

from the moment i log on to when i get off it's "Keith come help me xyz" "let's do x for my y" "come heal/tank/dd x". When I need that stuff I get ignored, denied or sour attitudes. I try to make everyone around me happy which recently has only caused me pain and stress. Was one of the reasons I left Hyperion aswell. Also hi, long time no see.

I believe you do the right thing by helping other players especially if you feel satisfied by it.

As for people not returning the favour, I'd say you've fallen in the hands of ungrateful players.
I'd recommend either making it clear to them that you expect some help back or just leave for another Free Company/Linkshell.
Don't feel bound to them, it is a game that you too are supposed to enjoy.

It's normal to feel emotions when dealing with other players, we are all still human players in the end.
But just like real life, there are jerks you have to learn to shield yourself from (emotionally).

Courage and enjoy!

I really know how you feel, but you must keep in mind that a lot of people out there are going to abuse your kindness if you let them, and that's not something that you're going to find just online, but in real life too. It's not your fault at all, but those person's because they lack real empathy, the same thing that makes you willing to help them and feel bad if you don't.

But don't let that discourage you from helping others; instead you should just try to learn to say "no" sometimes, as many have said. As long as you say it politely, they should understand, specially if they're friends. Otherwise they aren't worth your time, nor you should feel bad for it. You're a person with needs, and those needs are worth the same as theirs, even in an online game.

You'll always feel bad for not helping, no matter the circumstances, and that won't go away, unfortunately, as that's who you are and you shouldn't change. But you must learn to live with it, as it's worse if you just keep forcing yourself to always help or if you take to heart all the crap that some might tell you when you refuse (as you already know, I'm sure). Set yourself a limit, draw the line there, and always try to see if what they're asking from you is reasonable. Be confident in what you want, and don't let others tell you when or how you can do it. Also, we aren't in the same mood each day, so if one day you simply need to be by yourself simply say so. Be nice, but not a fool :)

I know all that because I'm a fool sometimes. But over time and with experience (some of it bad) I've learned to draw that line most of the time. You'll learn too, I'm sure :3

I'm gonna pop some fortune cookie wisdom on you.

In this game, all games, and life, there are those that you help because they are your friends, but more frequently, there are those that are your friends because you help them.

I've seen many "Nice guy" players get outgeared by their pet newbies and suddenly the newbie has no more good for them. "What, your healer can't carry me through this? For shame!"

I'm not sure if it's been said yet, but "I can't tell you the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to make everyone happy."

Give to others in healthy moderation. If they're too needy, either make it apparent or leave their company. I think 8pages of "I know how you feel" shows you're not alone. :)

I have nothing to add that other people haven't already said, but we are all behind nice people like you. I too do the same with helping mates out as well as PUGs, so I understand what you come into.

But I have to say one thing you did extraordinarily well.

You created one of the few topics where we can see a lot of the nice people come out and offer advice and be supportive of one another.

I congratulate you on that, and wish you the best in your endeavours.

Just wanted to add that this is possibly the nicest, most friendly, most helpful thread I've seen on these forums. It renews my faith in the community (at least the small forum-posting subset of it).

I think I may know how you feel, there have been numerous times where i've helped someone through a dungeon, primal, etc. and they don't even say thank you!!!!! I'm there healing my butt off and giving them tips >_>;;; Then there was one link shell member who needed help with ifrit, so I thought hell why not I mean I'm a healer so we should insta que. So I do around 4 Ifrit runs with him and then the next day he comes up with some bs conversation starter basically leading to another "can you help me with ifrit? :)" So I say ever so politely "awww sorry but i'm lvling carpenter atm but I can help you later if you want? :D" and I get back a "wow I give up, nice knowing you dude" and that was the last I heard of that mofo. So yes more often than not you help someone and they leech onto you, both in game and irl. So now that I'm keeping to myself (i've only got like 3 good friends on my server) I don't have to worry about helping anyone and getting leeched =).

Yes - you should feel good that you're doing a selfless act. Don't worry about getting it back (though it does often come back to you).

You're picking yourself out of the mundane dog eat dog that is everyday life. That's the reason you started playing this game. So you can be a kind, caring, and sincere human being :)

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Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

But it feels as if whenever it comes to me, my "wants" they are thrown by the wayside by everyone, including the very ones I strive to help. But I mean, it's a game; I shouldn't let things like this bother me. The game is intended for fun, not to feel bitter or jaded. I almost feel sort of juvenile for reacting this way.

Though, lately, I've been finding it increasingly difficult to ignore it, and it almost hurts my feelings that everything I do for everyone is seemingly swept under the rug.

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Wait, what!? PPL actually help other people in this game??

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Well, I'm guessing your talking about end-game and raids that doesn't involve duty finder.

If you have relics and dark-light gear set in mind, find a better FC but stay in touch with your old friends. A lot of this content is solo-able. I don't see anyone getting their feelings hurt because of no 'help'.

You are a model example of what a MMORPG player and could really use you in FFXI but you should learn to stand your ground and strike people out when they "swing-and-miss".

It's a game, play it the way you want to. Your FC should also have a voice channel somewhere so you can explain to them how you feel and bond.

Say no when you are busy or want to do something.
Help people when you can.
Repay favors to those who helped you.

i'm on excalibur myself and i've never played with you before, but from hearing the way you are always helping others i'd be glad to help you anytime you need help. i'm the same way as you are and would be glad to help you anytime you need help. i won't be on this week as much due to thanksgiving holidays, but if you are on anytime next week or the time after that catch me in game and i'd be glad to help you anyway i can. there's far too few people that are willing to help others and those people should have others willing to help them.

i feel the same way as i play a mmo to meet others and have fun. to me helping is fun(which is the only reason i took up all crafting classes), but i do understand where it feels thankless at times when you help all the time and then get stonewalled when you need help yourself.

I see this a lot. There are a lot of people that try to be helpful but it's usually accompanied by wanting something in return. It's totally natural. It just happens to be that way for some.
When you help, start by never expecting anything back from anyone. Help because you WANT to help or because it's the right thing to do. If your helpfulness doesn't pass that test, you're going to feel that way.

What I've done is something most people scoff at. I refuse to join a free company and when I interact with other people I try my hardest to behave the way God wants me to behave. If I want to charge for a materia meld and I get the internal prompting that I shouldn't, I do it for free.

The best part is, when you do something and you expect nothing in return, you're happy to do it and even happier if you get a bonus.
Someone I did a meld for tipped me 7500 gil once!

Short point. Never help expecting reciprocation. Heck, the bible even says to LEND without expecting repayment.
I know from doing it both ways, the way I just described brings a lot more peace and a lot more joy to people.

I know this is kinda different, but this is how it is for me ( especially in this mmo for some reason )...

I played wow for years and years with my RL mates, we made a guild , its still thriving ( pity i cant say the same about the actual game ) , but my mates dont agree, they still think wow is the best thing EVA, they stayed there....

Anyways, this leaves me to roam to other mmo's on my lonesome..
Herin lies my problem. I like joining guilds, everyone always says " you wanna run content, join a guild etc.."

Its not like that at all. Ive joined a guild in this game , always ask in guild chat if anyone wants to run anything, if anyone wants to do anything and all i get is silence.
The thing is, most guilds have their core members ( mates , long timers etc ) that have their core groups and just associate with each other, raid together etc.

The conclussion, If youre a loner like me , and want to run content, then we are pretty much shit out of luck, in mmo's it not who you are, its who you know....

Im sick of asking for runs or anything and getting " tumbleweeds ".
Think im out...
I never did finish fallout 2, time to replay....

Helping people should be its own reward. If you're doing it for recognition then you're not really helping people.

Recognition should be an added bonus, not the primary motivator.

Just like celebrities who give to charity and then get pissy that nobody pats them on the back 24/7 for doing a good deed.

From looking at the ops huge sig it just seems that she needs attention. ..... maybe that is the issue.

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Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Just wanted to add that this is possibly the nicest, most friendly, most helpful thread I've seen on these forums. It renews my faith in the community (at least the small forum-posting subset of it).

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It's quite a pleasant surprise ^^

I used to be like you, especially when I 1st got into MMOs. Fortunately, I learned how unappreciative and inconsiderate people can be fairly quickly. Truth is, people really aren't worth helping. At least, not without getting anything in return.

I wouldn't quit though, unless you find no real reason to play. Don't be a pushover, and don't ever be afraid to let fuck faces know how you really feel.