Can't make a full premade for Crystal Tower...

i bet jpns are upset too since as percentage they have way more hardcore than NA/EU

WoW the one possible piece of content for guilds and the devs 100% screw it up.

To hell with the duty finder, focusing on this is killing off you game. THIS IS ENDGAME... IT SHOULD BE GUILD FOCUSED... honestly should is not the right word it is MUST.

I want to play with my guild, not be forced to play with complete randoms. That is not what a mmo is about.

This decision is going to cost SE 10s of thousands of subs. This is GAME breaking. Endgame in general is tired of waiting for guild content.

This is not 1 person... in my case this is 70... We will not give SE until 2.2 to fix it. If there is no alliance guild content at the launch of 2.1... they risk losing 70 people in my case. And I am far from the minority.

Wow. Pattern much. Now daily randoms, you can only queue solo. Why does SE hate premade groups. This feels like we are being forced to learn to get along with randoms who grief with badness.

Going to have premade 8 man groups clearing their content quickly then forced to wait for the DF AK gear people to catch up. This won't go over well.

i won't lie am a sad panda.

They should have made both options viable, i dont get how they made such a decision.

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Originally Posted by Incredible

Going to have premade 8 man groups clearing their content quickly then forced to wait for the DF AK gear people to catch up. This won't go over well.

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It is going to suck for the ILevel 55 people, because what is going to happen is the relic/darklight/allegan group will just bail on them. I know I will. I will not play with a subpar geared pug. Better to have the cooldown then waste an hour with undergeared people who are not on voice chat.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

It is going to suck for the ILevel 55 people, because what is going to happen is the relic/darklight/allegan group will just bail on them. I know I will. I will not play with a subpar geared pug. Better to have the cooldown then waste an hour with undergeared people who are not on voice chat.

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And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It is not your responsibility to carry people through content. SE should know this and not force people together when lots of people just wanna do raids with their free company mates.

All these excuses and cop out by this dev team. From a guy (Yoshi-P) who said the game begins at end-game he really seems to be shooting himself in the foot with these poor design choices. 24-Man content is 24-Man content, not 8 people then a bunch of undergeared, underskilled bads, this is ridiculous. Retro-progression, lack of content, contradicts everything he promised initially: "For ARR, the level cap is going to be level 50 to start the game. We don't want players to have to spend a lot of time getting to level 50. The reason behind this is that we believe the game up to level 50 is basically your tutorial. The real game begins from level 50. We have the real challenges begin there. We have a lot of end content that we've already prepared to be ready at the launch of the game."

Whats the over under on how long before this game officially tanks and is relegated to a small niche playerbase?

You guys are funny. Seriously. I can honestly say i was surprised at the 8 man limit PUG other 16 thing but it is hardly the end of the world.
If i made a huge post saying how i want to play just with my wife through all the content, i would be stripped naked and dragged through the streets by a WHM on a Unicorn to the sound of a 1000 people chanting MMO is about playing in groups.
Now the fact that you guys cannot play with just your own special group it is riot time.

Now i do understand that people will claim that playing with a group of 4, 8, 16, 24 is different to just 2 people but it is still basically wanting to hide away from the rest of the games population.

I also do understand that playing with people you trust etc is more fun and being trolled by strangers is a fun killer to, but take this as a chance to build the strength of the community.
If anything the devs are trying to make more people work together and make the game less clique orientated.
FC etc are a important part of the game but being friends with multiple FC's would make the game more fun for all.

This was the only content that FCs were expecting to be able to do together, and this information completely destroys it. Extremely disappointed.

It would be better if they wouldn't implement CT at all before groups can be made for it.

Best thing to do for those right now that feel this is a dealbreaker. Remove your automatic renewals. I already have. Duty-finder is terrible, I would much rather spam for groups for endgame content.

DF should be an optional convenience tool for players. Not a fallback on developers who want to halfass it.

Deal with it, Joshyuchiha.

so, to clarify this.

is this working as intended or were SE's Devs just not capable of implementing a feature for players to form alliances?

Oh you are kidding me. WTF SE! Seriously its just a bunch of monkeys trying to type hamlet at head quarters. Dumbest decision ever. Seriously. So unhappy right now. Why would I want to pug with other people when I have a FC ready to go in? WHY! Why are you making us pug this?

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

We seem to be forgetting gear checks. So your 'nonsense people' will actually be capable at least gear wise to complete CT. That makes it considerably less painful.

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Doesn't fix stu...well you get the idea. Shame really, despite opposition, Yoshi continues to show he wants this game to be designed around solo play and the DF and less around actually doing stuff with friends/FC - You can say otherwise, but it's becoming more clearer given the general design of this game.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

Man, some people will defend anything. They pretty much plain stated 24 man alliance for CT WILL NOT be available at 2.1 launch. What else do you want to know?

This is pretty much inexcusable, I could make alliance years ago in XI, why does this game go backward?

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He really does defend everything SE does with XIV just because it's different from XI, so to him everything = Win and a smart move.

I agree it sucks, but at least there's a simple solution any FC with minimal coordination can do:

Queue three groups at same time, cancel queue if everyone doesn't insta queue, problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Sixmp

I also do understand that playing with people you trust etc is more fun and being trolled by strangers is a fun killer to, but take this as a chance to build the strength of the community.

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You do make good points, however I disagree with the stuff I quoted you on. How is carrying griefers through content the same as building a strong community? Isn't it the exact opposite?

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

I agree it sucks, but at least there's a simple solution any FC with minimal coordination can do:

Queue three groups at same time, cancel queue if everyone doesn't insta queue, problem solved.

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This, this, this!

So much f**king whining and only one person who actually thinks..

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Originally Posted by anceru

I want to remove the afk griefing. If that requires a /kick, exp penalty or a lock from DF then it should be implemented.
I don't get why you would disagree... You think leeching is fine?

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Leeching is not fine, that's why we'll be able to kick them.

I doubt anyone's gonna leech, though. The queue timer should be punishment enough, at least for non-tanks. Waiting over 30 minutes to get in, run the risk of getting kicked and having to wait another queue... might as well just play the game.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

I agree it sucks, but at least there's a simple solution any FC with minimal coordination can do:

Queue three groups at same time, cancel queue if everyone doesn't insta queue, problem solved.

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Unfortunately this puts more stress on the serves, waste other groups' time and might take several tries to pull of. But if it works, people will do it.

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Originally Posted by Mistoltin

This, this, this!

So much f**king whining and only one person who actually thinks..

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Indeed - Instead of the simple solution of SE just....designing it as it should be designed since you can queue up with people in every other dungeon/raid pre-made, they make it specifically different for this.

So what's the solution? "Use make shift methods instead to circumvent systems!" You know if this was any other community and service, far less people would be trying to tell people "don't complain, just deal with it and circumvent."

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

Leeching is not fine, that's why we'll be able to kick them.

I doubt anyone's gonna leech, though. The queue timer should be punishment enough, at least for non-tanks. Waiting over 30 minutes to get in, run the risk of getting kicked and having to wait another queue... might as well just play the game.

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It will not be 1 or 2 people, it will be whole groups leaving at once. Leaching = someone not pulling thier weight. People in WP/AK gear are leaching. DL and relic is the minimume standard for entree level endgame. SE needs to either increase the ILvl to 70 or people below that will be leaching, even if they are playing.

If only i could queue for Coil! oh...

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Originally Posted by anceru

You do make good points, however I disagree with the stuff I quoted you on. How is carrying griefers through content the same as building a strong community? Isn't it the exact opposite?

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Well they will rely on 23 other people to clear the content. I would suspect they would be less interested in griefing so people who might grief would also be under scrutiny from the games community. Names would be passed round the community and naughty people would be excluded.

How exactly are you to build a community with a bunch of people from other servers that you never see again after you're done?

And while there are roundabouts for this (heck you can toy with your language settings a bit to increase your chances even further and so on), people shouldn't need to use them. Heck, the whole thing is pointless anyway exactly because of those workarounds. Still doesn't change that this decision from the dev team is pretty bad, since it basically just reconfirms that they're trying to cater to the solo players. I also wouldn't get my hopes up on the vote to kick. Probably gonna be something like the ability to kick someone if he didn't move for more than 30 minutes or so knowing SE.

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Originally Posted by Sixmp

Well they will rely on 23 other people to clear the content. I would suspect they would be less interested in griefing so people who might grief would also be under scrutiny from the games community. Names would be passed round the community and naughty people would be excluded.

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Yeah that's totally gonna happen! Totally! *sarcasm off*

Seriously it's like those people thinking they can "blacklist" people for fates group in Blue Fog because they handed in the earth core fate or something. Then consider that this is cross server and I wish you very, very good luck at excluding anyone from anything. Oh and wait, the only thing you can't queue up for outside the DF is Coil. What exactly are you even going to exclude people from?

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

I agree it sucks, but at least there's a simple solution any FC with minimal coordination can do:

Queue three groups at same time, cancel queue if everyone doesn't insta queue, problem solved.

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yea i can imagine it quite well how often parties enter and immediately 1-2 PTs leave because of "oops - wrong alliance"

there will be other parties to wait for queue as well, so insta queue doesn't mean u're getting the right alliance.

yeah this is pretty lame.

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Originally Posted by Sixmp

Well they will rely on 23 other people to clear the content. I would suspect they would be less interested in griefing so people who might grief would also be under scrutiny from the games community. Names would be passed round the community and naughty people would be excluded.

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I believe in a more systemic approach. Passing around names in a community seems to me like a step backward and reminds me of something you'd find in older games like FFXI.

Not a fan of this decision either. Furthermore, they stated that certain parts of CT where the groups will be split up will require each group to proceed on their own or the whole alliance gets stuck. More specifically, if one group is having trouble, the other groups can not help.

Last but not least, if there was the option of going in premade, FCs could arrange the 3 groups such that they are balanced and should progress at a relatively similar speed. Without premades, we could have a situation where a much better geared group of 8 is waiting on a group that barely meets the minimum requirements to enter.

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

Negativity

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Well it is what we have to work with. It is something people will have to deal with after all an MMO is all about playing with other people. I think the problem players really wont be as bad as you think. It is one thing to mess about with small groups who cannot kick you but when 23 people want to boot you then it is a different matter.

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Originally Posted by Sixmp

Well it is what we have to work with. It is something people will have to deal with after all an MMO is all about playing with other people. I think the problem players really wont be as bad as you think. It is one thing to mess about with small groups who cannot kick you but when 23 people want to boot you then it is a different matter.

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The problem is we want to play with our guilds. That is what endgame in a mmo is all about.

So no it is as bad as it sounds, 8 people does not make a guild.

I am very dissapointed with this announcement, certainly takes the excitement away from CT that I cant run with 23 mates.

It seems paradoxal that Free Companies can purchase a house and decorate it as a group activity, but they cannot enter Crystal Tower together. It just strikes me as a funny thing.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

The problem is we want to play with our guilds. That is what endgame in a mmo is all about.

So no it is as bad as it sounds, 8 people does not make a guild.

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It was all about that in every other SE MMORPG too. However the usual people will chime in with: "Well that was bad design! You should like this design better! Don't complain! This is Justice! This is Truth! This is Life!"

hello, hello?

IS THIS WORKING AS INTENDED OR IS THIS BAD PROGRAMMING?

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

The problem is we want to play with our guilds. That is what endgame in a mmo is all about.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

This is just Dumb development really going to have to rethink my sub in december

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Originally Posted by Sixmp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

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You are right it is my opinion. And the opinion of EVERY endgame guild in the game.

You need to learn what a mmo is about.

They stated that the functionality for doing CT with 3 FC premades will NOT make it in for 2.1, however they will try to get it in for 2.2.

Hell, they may just patch it in between 2.1 and 2.2.
What would you rather, no CT at all until 24man premades can join it, or having 8man CT with the potential to group with your FC buddies in 2.1?

This is absolutely stupid, this should get corrected. Many FCs are recruiting and constructing their structures around 24 man and now they tell us they won't allow it.