Concerns about the PvP and why it might not succeed, though I want it to very much!

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Originally Posted by Soul_drax

if people want to be cry babies and turn there names off let them

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THIS. This right here, is the best idea I think there is possible. I'm not sure if you can make this work SE, but do you think it's possible to give people a option to filter out their own names or not? Like the profanity filter. Make it so that when people que up, they can give the option to be anon, or put themselves out there. Thos i'm sure who feel like boasting more and wanting people to know who they just got beat by, won't put the name filter on. And those who feel safer to hide behind the filter, like those who don't turn off the profanity filter in game, will simply keep the name filter on. I think THIS right here is the best route, 'if' you can make it happen.

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Originally Posted by Hobo

The best decision would have been to give each player their own privacy settings. That way, people who can't handle competition can hide behind their anonymity.

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I think you got it other way around. Trolling, trash talks, harrassments, are done by the players that play badly. Players that can handle competition, will not trash talks because they are the winning one. The one that are making harrasmetns are usually the losers after the ballsita match

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

I think you got it other way around. Trolling, trash talks, harrassments, are done by the players that play badly. Players that can handle competition, will not trash talks because they are the winning one. The one that are making harrasmetns are usually the losers after the ballsita match

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Someone who can't handle competition is someone who won't be saying "good game" or "good match" regardless of their personal outcome in the event. Also... please don't bring up ballista in a PvP discussion. Ballista was FFXI's sad attempt at PvP and PvP in general has grown a lot in the past 10 years.

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Originally Posted by Soul_drax

So why do I have to be penalized for that? Why do I have to deal with it? I'm not going to blow up someone's tell's because they beat me in a PVP match.

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The harrasment will accelearte in a degree that GM has to step in. This is a real story back in FF11:

FF11 has an unique function where you can hide your level and job. There are some losers will create a lvl 1 character with name similar to your, hide information, then randomly trolling people you know. You have to submit request to GM to trace the owner of this troll account and put stop of it. It is not worth it, for the player being harrassed and for GM that try to investigate it. People are just not mature in virtual gaming.

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

In competition like fighting or any type of sports, you 'want' there to be that in your face 'Oooo, you just got knocked the f OUT!' type of service. It's the heart of PVP.

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This^^ lol @ the smart decision, what from the same company that releases PVP videos of players standing around and fighting each other in the same spot? Good job SE I see what you did there...

1. Make game utterly terrible before 3-4 big named MMO's come out
2. Get the word out so people know of FF14
3. Promise players a whole new game, steal good aspect's from the new MMO's and toss em into the remade version
4. Over looks SWTOR incredible PVP system (before game took a shit) & instead of learning from the mistakes and implementing a better working system they make one similar to FFXI
5. ???
6. Profit?
7. Turns into another event no one ever does (hi2u garrison)

I'll put it this way. People are way less mature in situations where 'everyone' is anon at the same time. You underestimate how powerful pvpers creativity can get, especially if 'all' pvpers have blanket complete immunity to people ever knowing who they really are. KNowing names to faces is always a bit of a 'road block' for full on douchery behavior.

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Originally Posted by Hobo

Ballista was FFXI's sad attempt at PvP and PvP in general has grown a lot in the past 10 years.

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I will take this as you are assuming that WoW will be better than FF11 ballista. Unfortunately, you do get trolled in WoW's random bg. They can simply just create an alt char on your server and spam you to internity. Only because you kill them too often in a random battleground.

Usually the people who want to see the names are:

- people who know the other team's names so they can give up a match because they either know the other people and want to give them the win, or know they can't win because they are not skilled enough
- people who are super skilled and have a reputation and want easy wins from the people who see their names and give up matches.

So, which one are you? you want easy wins or throw the towel before the match starts?

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

I will take this as you are assuming that WoW will be better than FF11 ballista. Unfortunately, you do get trolled in WoW's random bg. They can simply just create an alt char on your server and spam you to internity. Only because you kill them too often in a random battleground.

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also this.

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Originally Posted by Soul_drax

1. Make game utterly terrible before 3-4 big named MMO's come out

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I'm not sure if you've seen the devs at WildStar. Yet they are promoting in your face PVP and kicking ass, because that's simply the spirit of competition.

Well, that's what I want to say. But now that i'm thinking about it, that might simply be the spirit of 'American' competition. This is a japanese game, so I can't really speak for other countries and their views on it. So all I can do is hope for the best.

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Originally Posted by ashikenshin

Usually the people who want to see the names are:

- people who know the other team's names so they can give up a match because they either know the other people and want to give them the win, or know they can't win because they are not skilled enough
- people who are super skilled and have a reputation and want easy wins from the people who see their names and give up matches.

So, which one are you? you want easy wins or throw the towel before the match starts?



also this.

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I'm the type that want to feel like i'm playing against other humans. Not nameless faces. Its simply the 'feeling' you get. If 'not putting names to faces' worked that well, then all PVP based games wouldn't have players names hovering above their heads, or showing you 'who' you killed once you defeated them. The only ones who don't want this are those who get butt hurt too easily by others and have far too sensitive feelings.

feeling? ok now I know you have no argument.

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

I'm the type that want to feel like i'm playing against other humans.

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You must have never been harrassed over PvP before. The level of harrassment also accelerated to a degree and becames a cyber stalking. We all know Ballista is not a form of real PvP but rather a sport tounament; however you are still get these trolls. I dont want to imagine the level of harrassment from FF14's current one character system with a real PvP system

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

I'm the type that want to feel like i'm playing against other humans. Not nameless faces. Its simply the 'feeling' you get. If 'not putting names to faces' worked that well, then all PVP based games wouldn't have players names hovering above their heads, or showing you 'who' you killed once you defeated them. The only ones who don't want this are those who get butt hurt too easily by others and have far too sensitive feelings.

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So you would be ok then with a random name generator that will provide "fake" names for the opposing team?

Just reading the tone and comments of some of the people in this thread who are against the "fresh meat" thing makes me realize that SE has made the right decision. When I see phrases like "can't handle the competition" or "get butthurt too easily" as the reasons for wanting to see character names, its obvious why SE doesn't want to give you guys harrasment tools. You guys are coming across like elitist, insufferable douches.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

You must have never been harrassed over PvP before. The level of harrassment also accelerated to a degree and becames a cyber stalking.

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No. I'm the type that if something is annoying, I simply use the game's features they gave to us to combat it. Aka the ignore feature. I don't even IM the person to let them know i'm doing it, or go out of my way to tell anyone i'm doing it. And I 'rarely' have to ignore anyone unless they get really bad. And I have a long history of playing MMOs to boot.

Also, we're all pretty used to being 'harrassed' in this game already. It's called gilsellers, day in day out. If someone was pety enough to try to hunt me down on another server, I might just accidentally mistake them for a gilseller, and report them as one of those. And if someone is dumb enough to want to get reported and find their accounts linked to their main for doing it, well then by all means, go for it. And more than likely i'll know who it was that got butt hurt by me beating them too. Because I would of had a name to a face. =3

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

No. I'm the type that if something is annoying, I simply use the game's features they gave to us to combat it.

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You are being an idealist. There are types of harrassment that game tool such as blacklist cant stop. You obviously didnt pay attention to the examples I gave in previous posts. You dont even understand the feeling for being harrassed just because you are playing Ballista correctly. I was unable to stop the harrassment until I won the Ballista Royale for the server. Being harrassed since 4 months after Ballista installation to Ballsita Royale, this is not an enjoyable experience.

And are you guys who are against it... just people who have been bullied and shoved around a lot? I'll admit, I never really experienced suffering being shoved around or bullied. And i'm a guy, so I tend to have fun in competitive game. Golden Eye, Halo, Call of Duty, WoW, LoL, Tekken, Street Fighter, BlazBlue, Guilty Gear. I guess in competitive games, i've never really been used to players who don't trash talk and easily get their feelings hurt.

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

No. I'm the type that if something is annoying, I simply use the game's features they gave to us to combat it. Aka the ignore feature. I don't even IM the person to let them know i'm doing it, or go out of my way to tell anyone i'm doing it. And I 'rarely' have to ignore anyone unless they get really bad. And I have a long history of playing MMOs to boot.

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This^^ so much this^^ /thread... I <3 you have my babies. :)

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

You are being an idealist. There are types of harrassment that game tool such as blacklist cant stop. You obviously didnt pay attention to the examples I gave in previous posts.

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Not a idealist. Just someone speaking from experience of seeing what happens. And 9/10, the person being attacked will sit there and go back and forth with a person. Thats usually the exact reason 'why' they get bullied or trolled. They give the attacker ammunition.. and never, 'ever' even bother to block them to begin with until they are red in the face, and all their friends force them to eventually do it. This is over ten years of seeing stuff like this happen in gaming.. and it's never changed.

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

And are you guys who are against it... just people who have been bullied and shoved around a lot? I'll admit, I never really experienced suffering being shoved around or bullied. And i'm a guy, so I tend to have fun in competitive game. Golden Eye, Halo, Call of Duty, WoW, LoL, Tekken, Street Fighter, BlazBlue, Guilty Gear. I guess in competitive games, i've never really been used to players who don't trash talk and easily get their feelings hurt.

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You keep making it worse for yourself after every post man. "If you are for the Fresh meats designation, you guys were bullied and shoved around"? Only guys can have fun in competitive games?

I would advise you just let it go.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

So you would be ok then with a random name generator that will provide "fake" names for the opposing team?

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I won't lie. If SE decided to pull a fast one and 'not' let people know that we were fighting against random generated names... up until the time I found out, yes, it would appease me. Because until then, the entire time i'd be thinking that I was fighting against actual players.. and that it was the same PVP i'm used to in every game I play where you know who you are playing against.

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

Not a idealist. Just someone speaking from experience of seeing what happens. And 9/10, the person being attacked will sit there and go back and forth with a person.

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Are you kidding me? You will get trolled even from playing Last of US on PS3 and worst kind will stalk you to every game you play. I had this guy that keep doing this just because I keep kill him with meele weapon. Can I assume that your PvP performance is not at level will get you trolled? I am not trying to offend you at all. Just asking.

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Originally Posted by Pooky

You keep making it worse for yourself after every post man. "If you are for the Fresh meats designation, you guys were bullied and shoved around"? Only guys can have fun in competitive games?

I would advise you just let it go.

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Notice my question mark. I'm actually asking all of you who are totally against it if you are bullied or not. And to be honest.... yes. Its like a woman saying she wants to be in the NFL... going into it... and telling them that they can't be so rough because she's there. Then wanting the entire rough competitor spirit turned around, simply because she feels too delicate. The reason games have a lot of content, is so that players of different types and mind frames have options of what they can go do. If you aren't the competitive type, don't play PVP. Do PVE instead, being as thats more of your cup of tea.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

Are you kidding me? You will get trolled even from playing Last of US on PS3 and worst kind will stalk you to every game you play.

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..... Exactly how many games do you get trolled in? I'm starting to think that if this is personal examples you are giving, that your luck is just really, 'really' bad. I've played the same game, for the same system, and that's never happened to me.

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

..... Exactly how many games do you get trolled in? I'm starting to think that if this is personal examples you are giving, that your luck is just really, 'really' bad. I've played the same game, for the same system, and that's never happened to me.

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Too many to be list, but I can give you recent one:

WoW
Last of Us
FF11
Tera
RE Operation Racoon City

I dont think this is random luck thing, honestly. I never expect people taking this seriously over PS3 mutiplayer games either. It is shocking.

I've played those games too and it hasn't happened. It hasn't happened to my friends either... and we've killed a lot... and I mean a 'lot' of people. FF11 on my server, Asura at least, we knew all the people who came to Ballista. So That was never really an issue for us that I can remember on ourside. in WoW I played Scarlet Crusade then on Illidan (which is infamous for its pvp) and never encountered that either. So either it's random, or its simply certain people they target to troll more than others. I'd have to actually look into it more to be able to tell you.

From a selling stand point, I 'personally' don't think the 'anon name system' will lead to anything good. Can't be 100% sure tho until we see it in action. But I have a gut feeling that most will be waiting for the fighting system they'll implement in our guildhouses, so that players can actually know who they pvp against.

And honestly sorry you've been trolled that bad in all those games. Sounds like you've been constantly getting the wrong end of the stick, which sucks. But now that is making me wonder whats going on socially, where trolls is going after you and those you know so frequently between games, yet those I know it hasn't occurred. How does it happen? Do you beat people and they get so angry at being defeated by you, that they end up wanting to troll you? Do you say anything back to them?

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

And honestly sorry you've been trolled that bad in all those games. Sounds like you've been constantly getting the wrong end of the stick, which sucks.

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That is interesting, I dont recall Asura Ballista is ever being that nice at all, other than the times playing against Japanse.

You know some people have bad luck with these kinds of things. Doesn't mean he is doing anything wrong. I have been camped for hours in WoW for no reason whatsoever. They created alliance characters just to keep sending me whispers. Trolls want to troll, there is no reason behind it.

There are mean people in the world, just because it didn't happen to you and it did happen to them doesn't mean he was asking for it. Just like those that say that girls dressing provocatively are asking to be ... well you know.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

That is interesting, I dont recall Asura Ballista is ever being that nice at all, other than the times playing against Japanse.

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A lot of us from Asura ballista are on Hyperion. I was Ronzeru there. Royo. Godjr. Fatal, ect. All the regulars. And they pretty much didn't go around making level 1s to troll each other... Cuz we'd all smack talk to each others faces. No different than a FPS or streetball. You'd have the guys that'd rage from being defeated, ect. But if you were also from Asura, then I definately don't recall people doing anything super harassing there. And I played that game at least from the release date to when WoTG on that same server. So unless it changed when that got released, all I can account for is what happened from the release of that... back to game release.

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Originally Posted by Hobo

The best decision would have been to give each player their own privacy settings. That way, people who can't handle competition can hide behind their anonymity.

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Competition in an instanced setting with a set number of players along with gcd and hand holding red outlined ae ranges? You are playing the wrong game if your looking for a competitive game regardless of player names.

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Originally Posted by ashikenshin

You know some people have bad luck with these kinds of things. Doesn't mean he is doing anything wrong. I have been camped for hours in WoW for no reason whatsoever. They created alliance characters just to keep sending me whispers. Trolls want to troll, there is no reason behind it.

There are mean people in the world, just because it didn't happen to you and it did happen to them doesn't mean he was asking for it. Just like those that say that girls dressing provocatively are asking to be ... well you know.

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lol not to make lite of this but.... 'were' you dressing provocatively to of had the same thing happen to you in all these games?

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

A lot of us from Asura ballista are on Hyperion.

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Well, if you dont recognize my character name, you are not there since ballista installation. I only recognize Godjr and Royo, but both of them, do not play ballista a lot. I don't recall you between ballista installation to end of arhat expansion

I don't care about the anonymity thing, meaningful pvp can exist with anonymity (DAoC case and point). I just wish we weren't called fresh meat, I'd rather be called by my race+class. I'd rather see a 'Midlander Dragoon', 'Highlander Warrior', 'Dunefolk Blackmage', 'Seawolf Scholar' coming at me instead of 4x'Fresh Meat'.

For small instanced pvp such as the Wolves Den I would always prefer to see names of people rather than it just being a default fresh meat. In small situations like this I like to know who my opponent is. If a person has a reputation for excelling at pvp combat and I manage to beat them it provides me with a great sense of achievement and I can feel proud of myself that I beat them.

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

I want to reply to this maturely. But the PVPer/Sports lover/competitor in videogames in me won't allow me to. So my answer to this is.... It's not done by players that play badly. It's done by males in general. Be they grown men or small boys. You have those who are more like little girls and wish to shake each other hands. And you have guys who are more in your face with it. Sorry to sound sexist, but if we wanted to share stories and have tea time sit down talks with each other as we discuss each others victories in the kitchen and talk about our boyfriends, we wouldn't be doing pvp to begin with.

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You realize you're calling men who practice good sportsmanship "little girls" right? In my experience the folks who act as you suggest are either insecure or little boys.

Arena based, team only, "Fresh Meat" PVP... The PVP in this game sounds so weak... It seems to me like every announcement for this game is nothing but disappointment. How is this game going to compete with other titles in this genre by going out of it's way to be mediocre..? The "Final Fantasy" brand can only carry you so far. I had a lot of faith in this game, but I'm starting to think my faith was not well placed. If they wanted to do the whole fresh meat thing the right way, they could have made hiding your name optional for those who didn't want to be harassed. They could also have made "chat off" as an option, just as simple. Why design PVP for people who will just play it once or twice, rather than the people who will really want to get into it? Where is the common sense in this design?

I don't care too much about anonymity or not, but "Fresh Meat" must be setting the bar pretty low so far as anonymous identity is concerned.

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Originally Posted by Kelg

It seems to me like every announcement for this game is nothing but disappointment. How is this game going to compete with other titles in this genre by going out of it's way to be mediocre..? The "Final Fantasy" brand can only carry you so far. I had a lot of faith in this game, but I'm starting to think my faith was not well placed. If they wanted to do the whole fresh meat thing the right way, they could have made hiding your name optional for those who didn't want to be harassed. They could also have made "chat off" as an option, just as simple. Why design PVP for people who will just play it once or twice, rather than the people who will really want to get into it? Where is the common sense in this design?

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I feel you, every time I seen an update about PVP I just /facepalm. Arena based PVP is fine if its like in SWTOR (huttball ect.) but you know SE... there going to take the lamest approach possible.