10 steps to being a bad PLD

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Originally Posted by dark494

Everything the boss, (Psychflayer) does can be silenced and stunned and pacified. I've never had a problem doing either, brd's can chime in and do the same, as can every other class with stuns, and it doesn't really matter. It's not like the boss can actually do enough meaningful damage to matter. Why don't you go yell at the healers that insist on standing in the giant red radius of death (not behind a pillar) because they don't know how to dodge?

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If there are two Ranged DD in a party I just run circles around the pillar (for BRDS) or just continually run through him (for mages), laughing gleefully and taking no damage. Also, Mind Melt can be LoS'ed behind the pillars.

All in all I only take damage if there are Melee in the party. XD

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

(The difference in enmity generated between a combo'd Rage of Halone and not is IMMENSE! Rage of Halone generates enmity equal to damage dealt times 10 (in shield oath). Which means hitting just Rage of Halone for like 79 damage will generate 790 enmity. Hitting them for 300 with a combo'd one will generate 3000.

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This has been tested time and time again. Shield Oath does NOT double enmity gains. It is 1.2 times. Exactly enough to equal the same enmity as if you had no oath on at all. So that 300 hit would equal out to 1800 enmity not 3000. Pretty big difference. Maths being 300*5*1.2=1800.

If you have some type of valid proof showing that it is in fact double vs the 3-4 threads that have been going around since phase 4 then by all means correct me but far as I have seen that is not the case. This is why a PLD running Sword Oath can easily pull off one using Shield Oath

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Originally Posted by Ariyn

This has been tested time and time again. Shield Oath does NOT double enmity gains. It is 1.2 times. Exactly enough to equal the same enmity as if you had no oath on at all. So that 300 hit would equal out to 1800 enmity not 3000. Pretty big difference. Maths being 300*5*1.2=1800.

If you have some type of valid proof showing that it is in fact double vs the 3-4 threads that have been going around since phase 4 then by all means correct me but far as I have seen that is not the case. This is why a PLD running Sword Oath can easily pull off one using Shield Oath

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http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=231 This was the site I was going off of. Regardless of if its x10 or not, the math is still the same proportionately, and has no relevance on the statement you apparently have a problem with.

You should be using a combo'd Rage of Halone, the statement you're quoting is about the difference between the enmity generated by a non-combo'd one hitting for 79 vs a combo'd one hitting for 300.

Updated the first post to include:

(The difference in enmity generated between a combo'd Rage of Halone and not is IMMENSE! Rage of Halone generates enmity equal to damage dealt times 10 (in shield oath). Which means hitting just Rage of Halone for like 79 damage will generate 790 enmity. Hitting them for 300 with a combo'd one will generate 3000. This is assuming shield Oath doubles your multiplier, if it isn't and something like 1.2-1.5, these numbers would look something like, non-combo'd generating between 474-593, and a combo'd one generating between 1800-2250.

At 50 I stopped marking the mobs i wanted to kill first and in what order. I always run with aoe dps so I just keep hate and let the aoe kills happen. Now If im with dps with no real aoe Ill mark. I feel focusing damage on 1 mob at a time is more efficient imo.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=231 This was the site I was going off of.

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That was phase 3 data. The enmity value of tanking stances has since been reduced.

Also,

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Originally Posted by Ariyn

This has been tested time and time again.

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(If you have data on Shield Oath showing only 1.2x modifier, which would be a net reduction in enmity, please provide it. Last I checked, people were guessing it's a 1.5x modifier, or a net 1.2x modifier to total enmity after accounting for damage reduction.)

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=231 This was the site I was going off of. Regardless of if its x10 or not, the math is still the same proportionately, and has no relevance on the statement you apparently have a problem with.

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True, but I do kinda wish people would stop linking to valk's stuff. Not trying to speak ill of his site or methodology or anything, but the information seems to have been last updated in B3, and we know that "battle mechanics" were changed in B4. I've yet to see anything showing that his exact multipliers still hold.

Also on your positioning. Try to line the mobs up infront of you. You cant parry or block mobs off to the side or behind you ^^

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

That was phase 3 data. The enmity value of tanking stances has since been reduced.

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Ahhhhh, thanks for letting me know :) I updated the first post to reflect the possible changes the different values would make.

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Originally Posted by Shusio

At 50 I stopped marking the mobs i wanted to kill first and in what order. I always run with aoe dps so I just keep hate and let the aoe kills happen. Now If im with dps with no real aoe Ill mark. I feel focusing damage on 1 mob at a time is more efficient imo.

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Correct me if I'm wrong...but isn't it still a good idea to mark the mob the DPS should target when applying their AOE's? I always assumed the actual target of the AOE received more damage than those around it. If this is true, it's beneficial to at least mark the one with the most health and/or the one you're going to focus a few single target enmity skills on.

It depends on person to person. Some people mark all the time, but after a while of doing speed runs with aoe marking becomes kind of redundant. I consider marking more useful when doing a dungeon for the first time or to help someone prioritize who to attack first, etc.

But when a lot of people have relic +1 everything dies pretty quick. Also depending on the group size might just be easier to flash a bajillion times if everything dies in like 10 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Nichigo

Correct me if I'm wrong...but isn't it still a good idea to mark the mob the DPS should target when applying their AOE's? I always assumed the actual target of the AOE received more damage than those around it. If this is true, it's beneficial to at least mark the one with the most health and/or the one you're going to focus a few single target enmity skills on.

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From what I have asked and from personal experience. All mobs take the same about of damage.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

There are also the ones who use Riot Blade -> Flash over and over. Those are a treat.

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I'm level 18. And thats pretty much what i do.
Flash -> Fast -> Riot -> Flash -> repeat while tabbing around and dropping the occasional Savage.

Unless you're being sarcastic, in which case, whats a Flash?

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Originally Posted by Sylve

I'm level 18....

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This is mostly not applicable to you, then. I'd say your good relying on flash until you get Halone. This is mostly directed towards level 50 players, I believe.

When I do WP speed runs its all flash flash flash riot flash.
How does that make me bad?
If I DONT do this, DPS pull hate, die, and we all wipe.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

You should be using a combo'd Rage of Halone, the statement you're quoting is about the difference between the enmity generated by a non-combo'd one hitting for 79 vs a combo'd one hitting for 300.

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That was just the statement that I referenced. But the information applies to all of it and the difference between a combo'd and non combo'd RoH is pretty immense. RoH pulling ~500-600 enmity is less then a single flash generates on multiple targets. It is useful and I am not knocking it at all just saying that it should not be the preferred use or even thought about unless we are talking about snap threat after a voke.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

(If you have data on Shield Oath showing only 1.2x modifier, which would be a net reduction in enmity, please provide it. Last I checked, people were guessing it's a 1.5x modifier, or a net 1.2x modifier to total enmity after accounting for damage reduction.)

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I know there was a post with a lot of testing done. I will find the link here in a minute for you.

Edit - Can't find the post I was referring to but have found a few with testing since launch. Seems that it is a common trend showing between 1.2-1.5 times for Shield Oath with no one having a definite answer that I can find. If someone finds solid proof I'd be wanting it as well!

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

There are also the ones who use Riot Blade -> Flash over and over. Those are a treat.

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On large aoe packs I spam flash until out of mana (CoS too when off cooldown), then I start weaving 1 riot blade combo with 1 flash, all the while managing defensive cooldowns. Towards the end of the pack when alot of mobs are dead then I start spamming riot blade more than flash so that i'm gaining back mana for the next aoe pull. You need to be close to full mana at the start of each pull otherwise you won't be able to keep enough aggro. The downside is that towards the end of large aoe packs you might start losing aggro when you're spamming riot blade instead of flash, but your job in speed runs isn't to prevent every tiny bit of damage on party members, it's to get through the dungeon asap. If dps taking a couple of negligible hits to the face at the end of a pack means that you have close to full mana for the next pull, then I consider it a good tradeoff.

I didn't know about running behind first AK boss to avoid Void Thunder, but I do try to stop mindmelt every chance I get.

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Originally Posted by Vactus

I didn't know about running behind first AK boss to avoid Void Thunder, but I do try to stop mindmelt every chance I get.

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it helps a lot, basically negates the vast majority of the damage for that specific boss. (technically you could just rotate the boss and make it so he does NO damage beyond mind-melt and canker...but it makes the melee dps angry)

if you can also can get any bards in your party to silence canker and you manage to interrupt obliterate from the adds you basically make healing this fight the most boring job on the planet.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

I'll add a 14th: eating avoidable casts. In AK, the first boss regularly casts Void Thunder that can be dodged by just running behind the boss during the ability's 3 second cast, and I've seen *so* many PLD tanks just eat it because "the healer will take care of it" (it's the only major source of tank damage in the entire fight; if you avoid that and interrupt Mind Melt, like the tank *should* be since it's on a 30 sec CD just like Brutal Swing, the healer can DPS pretty much the *entire* fight). The blob boss in WP is the same: it casts Fire, which just so happens to be 90% of the damage the tank will take, and it can be completely avoided by just running behind the boss.

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This. It's certainly something that most tanks don't pick up on.. Atleast not immediately. There is also the same issue with Slip Stream from HM Garuda.

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

it helps a lot, basically negates the vast majority of the damage for that specific boss. (technically you could just rotate the boss and make it so he does NO damage beyond mind-melt and canker...but it makes the melee dps angry)

if you can also can get any bards in your party to silence canker and you manage to interrupt obliterate from the adds you basically make healing this fight the most boring job on the planet.

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Did it tonight. Makes things so much easier.