Change coil drops to tokens ASAP.

If Coil dropped tokens, all that'd do is cause people to complain about lack of things to do even sooner. At some level, there has to be something that slows you down until the next content patch is available.

our coil group always get the BLM ring on caduceus.. 5/5, rng god dont like us :p

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Originally Posted by HeiZei

This garbage looting system needs fixed asap.

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Its not the tokens they need to fix. That would just mean just like Myth , if you run coil . Gaurenteed tokens so you can buy your gear. It would force you into the same situation you have with AK/WP.
There are 100s of people that are in FCs that cant clear it. So why not put in it the Duty Finder so people can practice it . Not have to waste 2 hours of players time trying to clear it. All you ever see in Shout is , Looking for Coil DPS must be experiance. Meaning people new to Coil are pretty much stuffed or have to lie and say yeah im experiance. ..Seems kinda flawed if you ask me.
Alot of ppl are QQing over Coil Not being in the Duty Finder
I understand coil is hard to do and in its own right it should be. But forcing people to login at certain times of the day is a poor design in any right due to every damn person almost being in different time zones.

I'm don't think we need tokens dropping from the bosses. All that's going to do is have more people rolling on your loot you want want to use to buy your gear. Whos to say that the same token won't drop 6 times in a row either? It will.

What needs to happen is a "smart" loot table that will only pull from items specific to the jobs in that instance right then and there. Don't have a drg in your group? No worries it won't drop! You gotta remember also there isn't a lot of loot being dropped in the first place.

If tokens were instated the people bored already would be pulling their eyeballs out because they would have their core coil tems all geared in X amount of time...then what? This way there is no rush and you get there when you get there.

We don't need a token system That's kind of what Mythology is for,

but I absolutely hate when loot drops for a class not in group.

RNG should be based on what classes are actually there. What happens when they add more classes/jobs to the game? The probability of your gear gear dropping goes even lower.

working as intended

keep movin

Oh, you keep getting loot that is just wasted because nobody can use it? Too bad they don't allow you to change your jobs in this game so you can put it to use! Oh, wait...

RNG will be RNG.. thankfully I have myth tomes to make up for gear not dropping in Coil. I've only been in it twice so far (our guild didn't start running it until the first week of Oct.), but of the four bosses killed during those two attempts, a healer piece has dropped every single time. I think the last run (that I wasn't on for) netted the tank chest and caster dps ring.. other times it's been melee dps and and heals.

Seems to be okay considering the spread of gear (4 different dps sets, 1 tank set, 1 healer set). RNG generally means you'll see more of something than something else short term (for us it's healing gear, for you it was obviously dps).

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Originally Posted by HeiZei

This is the dumbest mindset possible. Your logic concludes that I want to run the same content for 8 months instead of 2 because I'm not getting the gear I want. Instead of artificial barriers such as withholding gear from the players, how about just add more hard content. But of course, you are a level 16 scrub and have no idea what you are even talking about.

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I contend your attitude with my own.

What happened to long-term goals in MMOs? Where you would do Dynamis once a week for currency to get your relic weapon? This took months or years! Where you were lucky to see one or two AF2 pieces drop per run? And the elation and joy when you got your piece, it meant something huge!

Not anymore, right? WoW changed things to a point where your attitude is standard. I want to say the E word but I shall refrain. Work for your gear, if it drops sooner rather than later, great for you. If not, it does NOT mean the game is broken. You are just unlucky. Deal with it and keep trying like everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

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The problem is people don't actually keep track of these numbers. I have failed a 90% action a few times in a row as well, but I also succeeded the last 3 90% actions for the last 40 items I crafted. That would be 120 successes, 3 fails in a row, and a couple of interspersed fails along the way (That I don't keep track of like, I'm assuming, most of players). It is definitely in the range of 90% success rate. A string of bad luck does not constitute a fault in the RNG. Record the drops of every coil run on your server for a week, and I mean every one not just the ones with vocal people complaining they didn't get healer gear, and then we can talk. I'm sure SE monitors this kind of thing for you and would adjust it if the formula wasn't working as intended.

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Originally Posted by Nihility

Maybe the seed is based on party members and always the same means always the same loot?

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I noticed something like that. When I was the only blm, casting stuff dropped, but when we had another blm instead of an extra drg, drg/mnk stuff started dropping.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

That being said, it's how it is. There's no artificial barrier, there's just the "wall" that you have to climb to get what you want. Plain and simple. It's designed the way it is, because the creators wanted to design it the way it is. You, and some others, may not agree with it, but that's... how it is. There's a lot of things people don't like about anything that ever existed, but that's the way it works. I have to keep repeating myself because there's not many ways to emphasize something so simple..

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Well it's a good thing people are so passive, that way when things are created that people don't like, they don't fix them they just leave them shitty. Like the lightbulb. That thing has been bad for years, but why change it right? It lights up the room. Oh wait.

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Originally Posted by Issac

What happened to long-term goals in MMOs?

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Working for my gear by doing the exact same thing 1000 times is not fun, nor exciting. It's mind numbingly dull. Working for a relic quest was fun. There were steps to it. You had to beat A, go to B, then C, then D, then E, then you achieved your goal and won a relic. In Coil you work for gear, except you beat turn 1, and get nothing, you beat turn 2 get nothing, beat turn 3, get nothing, beat turn 4, get nothing. Next week the same thing happens. And the week after. And the week after. But wait, you finally got 1 piece of gear! Yay, let's do that for 3 more months because some nerd thinks that is "Working in an MMO". One that is meant to be played, and fun, not "work".

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

They messed up coils loot system RNG algorithm HORRIBLY somehow, literally every single group gets nothing but DPS drops and not a single group gets a lot of healer or tank drops. This includes my own, who gets nothing but DPS drops, mainly DRG and MNK.

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This isn't true at all actually. My group suffers from healer item spam.

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Originally Posted by HeiZei

This is the dumbest mindset possible. Your logic concludes that I want to run the same content for 8 months instead of 2 because I'm not getting the gear I want. Instead of artificial barriers such as withholding gear from the players, how about just add more hard content. But of course, you are a level 16 scrub and have no idea what you are even talking about.

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You need to take this BS attitude back to WoW where it belongs.

/facepalm
:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

/facepalm
:rolleyes:

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http://hypixel.net/attachments/doubl...palm-jpg.3617/

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Originally Posted by HeiZei

[...]how about just add more hard content.

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This nonchalant attitude seems to be very prevalent in many of the complaints. There is an underlying assumption here that SE could add more hard content if they wanted to, but for some unknown reason, they're holding back. This is a very bad attitude and completely fails to understand the software development cycle involved in creating new content (for anything, not just MMO's). The scope of work involved in adding a single instance to a game is likely immense, and there's a reason it takes months and months to add on to a game through patches, not even considering people working on future expansions. Design, artwork, programming, testing, integration, balance, more testing, etc. The number of people and man-hours involved are considerable, and all of that has to be weighed against budgetary constraints.

I agree that RNG drops aren't the greatest, especially given the limited scope of the current endgame. However, the artificial barriers put into the game to slow players down are there simply because content cannot be created fast enough to satiate some players. I've seen them referred to as content-locusts elsewhere, and I think it's an apt description. The question is, though, are you complaining that it will take X-amount of time for the RNG to drop your loot, and that X-amount of time is too long? Or, are you saying that X-amount of time is fine, as long as steady progress can be measured through token acquisition?

Lol... I can't believe people seriously complain that they don't get drops easily enough in the only end-game content currently in the game. That mental state of welfare is just truly insane.

I guess I might be bias, but I just happened to get the one drop I needed from coil. As a scholar, we only need technically 2 drops. Hands and the book. Book is going to be rather hard to get for a while, hands are from Turn 1. That's it. I'm arguably done with coil, every other best-in-slot item I need is from the ridiculously boring mythology system. I get to log on and run coil / ak for a couple of hours and I'm done for the week, such wow!

But yeah, wanting to turn the only rng-based loot system into a myth token hand-out is just, well, it summarizes everything wrong with the current state of how gamers thing games should be I suppose.

Welcome to what MMOs used to be where you had to actually work, work, and work some more for gear. Getting a piece of gear actually meant something because you needed luck on top of hard work to get your pieces. All a token system would mean was everyone could get the same gear as you without actually working for it. It would turn from a meaningful anticipation for drop into ho hum, "I need 100 runs to get my full set of gear" stuff.

No to this SE! Make the casuals work for their gear, don't just hand it to them.

I understand the sentiment here, but I personally believe the token system was a terrible idea and I'd like to see it reduced, not expanded. Everybody says "borrow a page from WoW", but I believe WoW was at its most interesting, most challenging, and most diverse back when there were no tokens — each boss simply dropped a table of loot. That loot was usually unique for that boss, and often had lore implications.

With the token system, everyone winds up wearing the same gear. I understand the frustration of not getting the drop you want or having to farm something for weeks, but I guess personally I find that more interesting than just kill boss X number of times so you can wear the same gear as everyone else.

But if peoples are already clearing Coild up to turn4 then why would you need new shiny stuff? clearly you have the gear to clear that place. I totally understand it is fun to get new shinies but if those are not actually required for upcoming bosses/content then why all the fuss? instead of raiding for loot try to raid for content and bosses itself, and if those sucks then why raid at all?

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Originally Posted by Slate

(snip)All a token system would mean was everyone could get the same gear as you without actually working for it. It would turn from a meaningful anticipation for drop into ho hum, "I need 100 runs to get my full set of gear" stuff.

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That... kind of sounds like working for your gear.

I would like to see the token system abolished to begin with. Tokens should give lesser gear... they are already giving BIS pieces.

People need to be happy the drops are 100% for 2 BIS pieces every win, that honestly in my opinion is way way too high already.

People need to put it work to get the best gear. Gear handout = bad.

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Originally Posted by NephHalp

That... kind of sounds like working for your gear.

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I prefer more rng, makes it exciting when you kill a boss and anticipation of what loot may come. I'd much rather go into a fight with the chance of loot vs thinking.. oh just 5more runs through here and I get loot. Does it get old when what you want doesn't drop? Sure, but when it does its more rewarding. Others may not know how long it took, but you personally can appreciate it as you stare at your shiny gear.

They already have a fix to this: Myth. The Myth gear rivals and every so often outshines the Coil drops. Both are very viable for end game content though. So alot of bad luck is weighted up by the fact that you can buy AF2 with Tomes of Myth.

I do agree that maybe some altercations should be made to the loot system. As a tank, I have not seen any tank loot from coil since early September. Having already finished coil for the week aside from turn 5 (WIP), it is a bit excessive to think that its been 7-8 weeks since I have last seen any drop for a tank class. I understand seeing maybe at least 1 or 2 drops during that time, and I am happy that many of my friends and members are getting geared up to challenge harder content, but no tank loot seems to drop. Personally it makes me happy with the mythology system in place, given the circumstances. All RNG considered, it still makes you think about some kind of seeding system tied to loot with players,or some other factor.

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Originally Posted by NephHalp

That... kind of sounds like working for your gear.

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sleepwalking through instances/content is hardly working

The OP clearly has no idea what random in "random drops" means. It doesn't mean "we take into account your party setup and the current gear equipped by the party in order to give you an appropriate handout." It means "Heres the loot list. Each item is assigned a number. Roll the dice and see which one drops." You've been unlucky. That sucks. We just cleared coil turn 1 for the second time last night and I got my tank body piece. Seems like you are just unlucky so far. If you want a token system its called AF+1 using myth. Otherwise this is exactly like every other end game mmo dungeon in existence. Some dungeons in WoW as I recall had items with less than a 1% drop rate. This is just the way these things work, but of course some people feel so damned entitled they will complain anyway.

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Originally Posted by Nooblet

I prefer more rng, makes it exciting when you kill a boss and anticipation of what loot may come. (snip)

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I'm someone who's been burned bad by RNG many times in the past and I'm very much a proponent of work=reward systems, not luck=reward (I'd much rather skill=reward, but in mmos that can only go so far since you have to keep that monthly sub rolling). However I'm actually fine with the current balance between coil and myth. You have your RNG roll of the dice each week in coil and you have myth tomes to fill in missing slots or pieces you've been unlucky with. As long as there's a work=reward option you don't end up with scenarios where one player gets nothing for weeks/months, another player gets lucky and passes the first player in a week or two, the first player then rage quits. RNG-heavy systems breed a lot of bitterness between lucky and unlucky players.

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Originally Posted by Slate

sleepwalking through instances/content is hardly working

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All that matters is time invested on the sub, if it takes 20 weeks of clearing turns 1-5 on coil for enough tokens for your full allagan then the token system did its job. If anything, RNG-based systems allow for outliers to gear faster than expected (as those who are unlucky will just fill in more slots with af2).

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Originally Posted by Alberel

This isn't entirely true here... FFXIV's RNG is a bit screwed up. Ask any crafter or gatherer how often they see a 90% success action fail 5+ times in a row. Personally I'll see a string of unlikely failures or unlikely successes multiple times a day yet the odds would dictate it should occur more like once a month. Now random is random I know, but when all the crafters in my FC report the same thing... well that's proof positive the RNG in this game doesn't work as far as I'm concerned.
...

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As an avid crafter I debunk this garbage. 90% is 90% and always has been for me and everyone else. You tend to notice the failures more than the successes.
Also - as was said earlier in the thread. There are double the DPS in a balanced raid, therefore it makes SENSE that double the DD loot drops.
Also - Token system is in the game. Allagan tome of Mythology.

As others have mentioned there is already a token system in game; Tomestones of Mythology.
Token drops from raids just takes the excitement from whats in the chest away and makes it alot more dull and just a grind, and I say this even as my coil group has had terrible luck with tons of DRG loot week after week while none of us has any use of it whatsoever.
This only feels like a big issue considering we are missing a whole raid tier(crystal tower) which the devs couldnt get ready in time for launch, limiting the options for where we can get item upgrades currently.

And RNG is random, a 90% chance means there is still plenty of chance to fail.

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Originally Posted by HeiZei

Working for my gear by doing the exact same thing 1000 times is not fun

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Welcome to raiding....

I don't get why people think they need everything NOW... Im glad your drops aren't coming, you want to know why??

SO I DONT HAVE TO SEE YOU MAKE TEN BAJILLION THREADS OF HOW THERE IS NOTHING TO DO AND HOW BORING THE GAME IS!


Some of you literally have no clue wth you are talking about. The RNG monster gives 0 fks how you feel or what you want. Get over it and keep raiding...or don't...idc either way

Our fc is selling DRG gear from Coil Turn 1, Chest, belt and pants will drop ever; nothing for tank, dps caster. Rarely, one for bard or healer.

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Originally Posted by Choyi

As others have mentioned there is already a token system in game; Tomestones of Mythology.

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there's a difference between the 'tokens' that you grind to a cap of 300 each week... and: http://www.wowhead.com/item=99678

this game borrows so much from WoW, they even have a similar currency system for gear (honor tokens for bad stuff, valor tokens for good stuff) compared to our philo tomes for bad stuff, and mythology tomes for good stuff

i'm not sure why they ignored the token drops from bosses though.. seeing loot effectively 'rot' is extremely disheartening when you've got people wearing 1 or even 2 coil loots in a month and a half of clearing turns one through four.

maybe most of you people that are adamantly against the token system haven't experienced what the OP is talking about? or you are unsure what he's suggesting?

'tokens' doesn't mean you just get to buy a piece of gear of your choice after you kill things in coil, it means you get a token drop that's exchanged for one item, the token may not even be usable by very many classes, it may not even be the proper currency for the piece you want.

it doesn't have to eliminate RNG, just mitigate it.

and after clearing turns 1 through 4 as many times as i have, it's disheartening to see tanks that've done coil half as many times with 4-5 times as many drops as i have

Oh please don't... No more tokens! They let you know going into it exactly how many times you have to run it. When you reach that number, you're done. It takes all the fun out of it and makes the experience just another mindless grind, counting down the runs until you're finished. With a token system, only the first and last runs are exciting. I much prefer not knowing if today is going to be my lucky day. Doing that with AK/WP was bad enough. We don't need it everywhere in endgame content.

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Originally Posted by HeiZei

Obviously English isn't your first language because you don't understand what both of us said completely coincide with verifying the loot system is jacked up. I say out of 32 pieces of gear, 4 are healer or tank. Shiyo says nothing but DPS gear drops. What do you think is contradicting?

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While you're contradicting the previous posters reading comprehension, you may wish to take an online statistics class. Then the mystery of the RNG and the individual class percentages compared to the total may make more sense and ease the hurt of your butt. That said, welcome to MMO's, enjoy your ride.

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Originally Posted by Vmage

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Like my previous post said, our luck with drops in coil has been among the worst, for the last weeks its been almost nothing but offspec drops or the same items week after week.

Tokens per boss just makes the game feel so much more artificial and takes some of the suspence of getting loot away, we already have a Myth cap grind, we don't need another.
RNG isn't fair, and it isn't supposed to be either, much like real life.
You are not a special snowflake for having terrible luck in coil(or any other part of the game for that matter) there are many who been running it since the first few weeks from launch and still are without many of the items they seek.

Current generation of MMO players are stuck too much often in the "get mine now" mentality, and it would be nice to at least have some items from end game be rare, even if it sucks when you are the one short on luck.

People please stahp. I don't think you get OP's point.

Everyone knows this is about RNG. With some luck you can get new gears every week and without any luck you can get 0 drops in a month or two. The problem is, the latter is truly frustrating and unrewarding. I don't like the token system either and we already have some kind of balance with myths/drops but maybe there could be a third way for people who cleared coil many times to walk away with something in hand too.

Doing the same content a hundred times for drops worked in FFXI because everyone knew that the new content wouldn't make that piece of gear invalid/useless (I don't know if this still applies, haven't played in a few years but it was this way before). You could do all endgame activities at the same time (check: diversity) and every piece you get would be valuable. However we know this doesn't apply in FFXIV as SE decided to go 'the WoW way'. We know when new content eventually comes it will replace the old one, this is especially clear with the linear (and incredibly dull) gear stat progression. Factor in the coil lockouts and it might take months and months of doing the same content to fully gear a class, not to mention most of us 1.0 players have all classes at 50 (check: "Multiple classes is a lie" thread). It's not that people want to burn the current content, it just feels like a chore that you need to do so you can move on to the next ilvl right now.