What Pellegri said but this does remind me of a 1.0 mechanic. In the Nael Deus Darnus (Hard) fight in 1.0, you had to craft Deaspected Clusters into Lunar Curtains in order to survive Mega Flare. Is it possible that there's some unique consumable that's being missed? Maybe it drops from mobs in turn 3? I don't see any good candidates in xivdb but maybe it wasn't parsed from the DATs properly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Patorikku
Turn 5 Twister Strategies Compendium
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10-20-2013, 01:06 PMaxemtitanium
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10-20-2013, 02:24 PMYenn
A lot of these suggestions are ridiculous. I feel like most of the people in this thread haven't even experienced Twisters.
There's no indicator that a Twister is going to one shot you. It's not like this ability is always a one shot, it's only a one shot 50% of the time.Quote:
What Pellegri said but this does remind me of a 1.0 mechanic. In the Nael Deus Darnus (Hard) fight in 1.0, you had to craft Deaspected Clusters into Lunar Curtains in order to survive Mega Flare. Is it possible that there's some unique consumable that's being missed? Maybe it drops from mobs in turn 3? I don't see any good candidates in xivdb but maybe it wasn't parsed from the DATs properly?
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10-20-2013, 03:06 PMBlossomRose
Have people tried, like... moving earlier?
And I don't mean waiting for the cast. I mean, someone in the raid has a timer running, and if Twintania actually does cast it every minute on the nose, he warns people to start moving at 50 seconds (to account for voice chat lag/in-game delays, etc).
If five to ten seconds of advance moving still don't change a thing then you'll know for sure it's bugged, or there's something else to it than just moving. -
10-20-2013, 03:30 PMSonyaArinWe have tried moving pre-cast, yeah. It's pretty easy to test that one since she'll do it almost immediately when she comes down, so you can get one off by just running forever until it happens at the transition. Sadly no clip of that until Turn 5 is back up. I was hoping a few FCs might have a couple clips they wanted to demonstrate as well when they made this, but at current pace I think most have let twitch records fade off on the auto-delete like mine have been when there's nothing particular I want to save (or don't want to share, which is fine).Quote:
Originally Posted by BlossomRose
Since Yenn mentioned it - it's true that a lot of these are far fetched, but in the effort of remaining unbiased so that owning the thread doesn't become some leadership thing, I'm just going to add mostly anything. -
10-20-2013, 03:42 PMRapBreonNo he doesn't. I'm too lazy to move and just tank plainscracker all the time. It was probably hilarious RnG that you got hit exactly for your HP that one (or more 0.o) times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soukyuu
Edit: unless it was changed last patch. -
10-20-2013, 03:46 PMShiji...Really? If moving preemptively was the key pretty sure many FC's would have downed it long ago. It's not bugged (according to the devs and community manager) which means it's probably something obscure or something extremely precise.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlossomRose
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10-20-2013, 03:58 PMBlossomRoseStupid questions will be asked because FCs are refusing to share the details of everything they're trying. You're kinda gonna have to deal with it until said FCs stop being so hush hush about it, and being rude about it is pretty unproductive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiji
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10-20-2013, 04:47 PMThyrllanPeople are rude because suggestions like "move early" or "try jumping" have been posted in every Turn 5 thread on reddit, here, blue-gartr, or any unofficial forum since Twister become a major problem for guilds.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlossomRose
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10-20-2013, 05:39 PMXbob42
Two theories:
1. Perhaps players getting hit (or not getting hit) by certain abilities previously in the fight determines how "close" the Twister spawns under you. If you get hit (or don't get hit) by enough abilities, you get insta-gibbed.
2. Perhaps the ability works in a strange way in accordance to movement. Let's say instead of running in a straight line away from Twintania, you could zig-zag or do an about-face at a certain point during her cast.
It could also potentially be a combination of the two. Now, for the second one, it's entirely possible that if it were true, that being able to get away by running in a straight line could be a red herring mechanic, in which players would exclaim "But I got away last time, I must've lagged or did it wrong this time!" We haven't had enough pulls on Twintania (The week we beat Turn 4, she was taken down, then we got a few hours' worth of pulls on her the following Monday and she went down again, I'm so sad.) to see if this is the case, but again, if it were true, I'd expect some sort of zig-zag pattern at the right time to have a 100% escape chance while a red herring straight line escape to have a 50% chance, giving the illusion that it's viable. -
10-20-2013, 05:55 PMCeolDid you even read the first post? This thread is for collecting any and all pieces of evidence, no matter how ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yenn
If you're going to be rude about that, get right the hell out of this thread, because its entire purpose is to be a place for people to bring forth such suggestions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thyrllan
Try reading the first post next time. -
10-20-2013, 08:57 PMReaperDx
Running pre-cast has already been mentioned in this thread, then someone mentions it again. I would think it's fine to post suggestions no matter how ridiculous, but posting the same suggestion(s) is ridiculous and a waste of time.
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10-20-2013, 09:06 PMStanelis
Have you tried to run in one direction during the cast and then to change direction right near the end of the cast ?
Yeah i'm quite sure that the issue is related to that (but mostly because the game isn't really fast to take into account movements overall). Please note that the video in one of Op's post where someone actually manage to dodge the twister occurred when the player didn't move during the cast. Maybe its just a matter of moving at the right time (not before, not after).Quote:
2. Perhaps the ability works in a strange way in accordance to movement. Let's say instead of running in a straight line away from Twintania, you could zig-zag or do an about-face at a certain point during her cast.
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10-20-2013, 11:56 PMSoukyuuInteresting idea, but what do you expect to see there? Tornadoes closing in? Or some sort of pattern to know where the safe spots are?Quote:
Originally Posted by SukoshiSeppen
I'm usually not that lucky with RNG, but at the risk of going off topic, maybe it shows you getting hit for your HP until you pass a certain threshold of defense stat, and starts showing the real damage once you can actually survive it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RapBreon
Or am I confusing it with the primals' 2hr when you fail to kill nails/heart/protect the pillars? Either way, it doesn't seem to be the same mechanic as the twisters. -
10-21-2013, 12:36 AMEronnI recorded that video. What I did was to wait for the cast to start before moving and then move. We have some success with this, but it is nowhere near reliable. Though it could be a case of very tight timing that we are missing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanelis
I never even considered this and I will absolutely be testing it when the encounter comes back up.Quote:
Originally Posted by SukoshiSeppen
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10-21-2013, 02:42 AMaxemtitanium
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...enemy&area=468
There appear to be three entries for Twintania in the monster database. One is the main boss (which evidently drops the ADS Illuminant). The only reason there would be multiple entries is if the boss changes or splits at different points in the battle (see Caduceus for example). Is this a hint of some sort? How do you trigger Twintania to change forms? Maybe this is some mechanic that people haven't talked about yet because world first race. I'm only on turn 4 right now so I don't know these things. -
10-21-2013, 04:23 AMMilaSiriMy guess is there are multiple ID's for each of his phases for mechanics.Quote:
Originally Posted by axemtitanium
look at ADS.
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...enemy&area=465
Only 1 ID drops the items, but yet multiple ID's. Likely for each mechanic phase the mobs go through -
10-21-2013, 04:46 AMBlossomRose
The ADS items are rare drops you can use to make furniture in 2.1.
Just like Ifrit's Horn, Garuda's Feather and Titan's Heart.
They are not related to the fights at all.
Cadeceus drops the Plating, Turn 2 ADS drops the Frame, and Twintania drops the Illuminant. All three are classified as "Materials - Stones", and if there isn't a recipe for them yet, there will be in 2.1. It probably ends up making an ADS piece of furniture that glows and spins. -
10-21-2013, 04:50 AMMilaSiriQuote:
Originally Posted by BlossomRose
We know that.
Post above me posted about multiple monster ID's in the lodestone database. Read. -
10-21-2013, 04:52 AMBlossomRoseWhine whine. I don't feel like it. Someone mentioned the items, so I mentioned what they were for.Quote:
Originally Posted by MilaSiri
If you're not happy... welp, too bad! -
10-21-2013, 05:15 AMVaiurIt was never in question what the items were for, we knew what they were for; we aren't dumb.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlossomRose
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10-21-2013, 05:22 AMSoukyuu
Just a hint, people: things are achieved when people are working together not gnawing at each other's throats.
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10-21-2013, 05:55 AMBlossomRoseNever said you were dumb. I just said what the items were for. You all chose to leap at my throat for providing the clear picture in case anyone didn't know. It's not my problem. =DQuote:
Originally Posted by Vaiur
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10-21-2013, 08:27 AMMitsukai123http://i.imgur.com/xV8lkxc.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by SonyaArin
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10-21-2013, 08:35 AMXilrasisI love it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitsukai123
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10-21-2013, 11:01 AMBossTugglesPossible?
I have yet to experience it so I do not know what kinda time table your dealing with. I know you mentioned that the twisters are 50/50 on insta killing people. Have you messed around with possible tank LBs? I know the LBs only decrease damage by a percentage but shoot might as well give it a go.
I know someone previously mentioned it but has anyone noticed a pattern to where they are placed for each cast? Possibly a safe spot somewhere? Anyways Ill be messing around in there tomorrow night so GL everyone. -
10-21-2013, 02:50 PMEclipsedHave wondered this as well, have been looking through old FF's for possible solutions. Twister is one of the abilities that has been recurring throughout the series. And one thing that stood out is that in FFIX to learn the twister ability you have to "eat" a red dragon. Perhaps if one of the adds doesn't die she doesn't gain the ability?Quote:
Originally Posted by Catapult
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10-21-2013, 04:04 PMThatDataGuy
Looking at the two videos, the first one appears to place the twister where the mouse cursor is when twister begins casting, while the second one appears to be out of bounds to place the twister anywhere in the arena which kills the player. It is possible that the mouse cursor position plays a role in twister's placement as if placing an aoe ability on the ground?
Edit: on second look it looks like it may possibly necessary to click on the ground -
10-21-2013, 04:35 PMXbob42...You realize PS3 players don't have mouse cursors, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatDataGuy
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10-21-2013, 04:38 PMSyncnessTwisters are cast every minute. Twisters do no damage (they actually deal no damage), they just kill you.Quote:
Originally Posted by BossTuggles
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10-21-2013, 07:59 PMHiirNoivlThere are 3 IDs for the Twister Abilities too. Maybe each Twister cast is different and that's why it seems random. Sometimes running away will work, but if there are 2 other mechanics to worry about it won't always work.Quote:
Originally Posted by axemtitanium
The fact that it deals no damage is also interesting. Things that cause insta-death as usually based on a numerical value in level or stats (Level 5 Death for example). Perhaps people who die often to Twisters (more often than others) Should take a look at what stats they are running in the fight with.
Just my idea and 2 cents. Good luck guys! -
10-21-2013, 09:01 PMsheepysheepy
can it target summons? could you essentially put up a shitload of cannon-fodder with 3-5 titanegi and place them all together to draw some twisters away from players
how many tanks are typically there, 1pld? in 2 tank groups can twister target both tanks?
60 seconds between casts seems like a fair time to rez people, what stops it? -
10-21-2013, 09:18 PMChickensEvil
About the positional update issue, something I wanted to point out was in turn 1 ADS (the first miniboss). With him this is a prime example of what I feel is happening with twisters only... it doesn't one shot you. ADS will target a player with a lazer beam on the ground and, well, you move out of it. However every week I had done that fight, I have seen at least 1 time when he starts to cast it, you move out of it, and yet it drops right on your face. Basically, he moves where he is casting the beam, even though it clearly showed it in one place on your screen. This isn't a huge deal, since it doesn't kill you instantly, but I think this might be part of the issue with twisters since it looks like they give you 0 breathing room for error on this fight.
Normally mechanics such as this they have a built in "room for error" on the players part. Take Titan plumes for example. If you start running from the very beginning, you actually have enough time to cross the entire diameter of a plume before it explodes meaning the "room for error" here is 2x the time it takes to run out of the middle (say it takes you 2 seconds to run out of the middle, then from the time the plume drops you have 4 seconds to get out). Problem with twisters is, there is (seemingly) no room for error. If it takes you 1 second to run out, that is all the time they are giving you. Combine the positional update issues (well documented), and just a hair of latency (you will never have perfect), and that seems like a recipe for disaster.
I get the feeling when CT drops we will see in the patch notes "Increased time on twisters between when they appear and when they activate to allow players more time to run out". Bam, nerf bat. -
10-21-2013, 10:27 PMAdvancedWind
Not on Coil 5, but seeing the video, as well as the 50/50 chance on just running gave me an idea: Have you tried running just a bit and stopping? Think of it like like a
|_____| Total aoe Range
|xx0Xx| 0 = center, defined when twintania starts casting.
Every time you move out of the AoE range, the skill repositions again on your feet until it is cast.
If you run OUT of the total AoE Range, you die, because it re-aimed at your new position.
If you stay on the initial position, you die, because that's where it was aimed early on.
If you stay on the "X"s, however, you survive, because the "twister mine" is placed on the 0 and does not trigger.
Reason for me to believe this: When you run all the way and still survive, that's the actual server lag saving you. On your screen you're out of the tornado, on the server you're still on the X zone, so, safe. If the server updates correctly, however, you're out of the safe zone and it re-aims, blowing up on your feet.
This also explains why there's no early AoE indication for this skill, because it will change if you move too far while it casts, explains why it spawns on your feet regardless of how much you run and also explains why running in advance does not work consistently. You're just lucky to be on the safe zone when the server checks for the actual casting.
So, strategy: Have everyone move a bit once it starts casting, but not too much. The idea is to avoid being in the exact position you were when it started, but not too far. -
10-21-2013, 10:40 PMChickensEvilInterresting idea, and I don't know if it has been tried yet or not, but I don't think that would change the fact that is still "buggy" would just be a workaround haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvancedWind
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10-21-2013, 10:43 PMAdvancedWindIf (and it's a big IF) it really works like I'm supposing, then no, it's not buggy at all. It's not a workaround anything, the mechanic would be simply a aimed AoE that repositions if you move too far from the initial cast pointQuote:
Originally Posted by ChickensEvil
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10-21-2013, 10:46 PMNarwhalShadowsun
From every video and source I've seen, it appears that it spawns directly on you and is quite large. I don't even really see how people think they're running out of it, maybe it's just the quality of the videos, but it looks way too large to run out of in any sort of timely fashion.
Positioning issues or not I don't think running out of the AOE is what's saving people, the post above me seems to be more logical, perhaps a certain spot in the AOE is a safe zone, or there is another mechanic from earlier in the fight / or an item. I don't see anyone safely running out of that aoe with how fast the kill is calculated. Which is what leads me to believe that the intended mechanic has nothing to do with dodging it in a traditional 'plume style' sense. This also coincides with the notion that it's 50/50, people are running at different times, speeds, perhaps standing where they need to be standing from the original cast-point at that correct point in time, ect. It's a pretty big stretch, but it actually seems a lot more logical than these running ideas.
Brainstorm*
Also; someone had mentioned that something was not 'right' about the adds at the start of the boss fight, are they too easy to kill, not a threat, have any noticable affect on the boss or it's mechanics in any way, at all? What are their mechanics? What is the standard method of dealing with them? Have they been tested if kept alive? Are they different from each other in any way? -
10-21-2013, 11:22 PMVeurr
So alchemist make potent potions of paralysis. To my knowledge that is the only status effect players can't apply through an ability. Has anyone tried chucking one of those at her? Can they be chucked even? It says effect on targets up to level 50.
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10-21-2013, 11:28 PMEronnEarly on just to see, we did try using various status effect potions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veurr
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10-21-2013, 11:47 PMChickensEvilWhat you are seeing is two different things. The twisters that spawn on the ground are rather small. it is the resulting explosion that is large. I think that is why they made it such a small window to run out of, because it is so small. Just look at the two videos posted in the examples in the OP. You see these little tiny balls or whatever on the ground in the one, and giant twister explosions on the other. The OP even states in the explanation for how the mechanic works that it has a rather large effect that can hit other players, while not a one-shot it does do substantial damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by NarwhalShadowsun
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10-22-2013, 12:01 AMNarwhalShadowsunSo are there effects of the twister? A kill zone and then an area that damages outside of the impossible to dodge killzone?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickensEvil