[Limited Job] Suggestions Megathread

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

You could potentially disable certain spells within Field Operations. Like I assume you're referring to Malediction of Water for example.

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What happens is some players will pull an NM as soon as it spawns, and drag it to a hard to reach spot making most of the NM's attacks unavoidable -- killing players in the process. They do so on WAR so it's basically impossible to rip aggro off them to reposition the boss to a safer spot. This is especially bad with the NM Skoll because the mobs that are needed to kill to spawn it on one side of the map, and the NM spawns on the other. So it is incredible difficult for the players who are trying to spawn it to actually get to the NM to get kill credit. A blue mage would absolutely be able to grief with these MPK tactics, and effectively solo the boss with their obscene amounts of damage before anyone has a chance to get to the NM.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

What happens is some players will pull an NM as soon as it spawns, and drag it to a hard to reach spot making most of the NM's attacks unavoidable -- killing players in the process. They do so on WAR so it's basically impossible to rip aggro off them to reposition the boss to a safer spot. This is especially bad with the NM Skoll because the mobs that are needed to kill to spawn it on one side of the map, and the NM spawns on the other. So it is incredible difficult for the players who are trying to spawn it to actually get to the NM to get kill credit. A blue mage would absolutely be able to grief with these MPK tactics, and effectively solo the boss with their obscene amounts of damage before anyone has a chance to get to the NM.

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To be honest, I don't think it's fair to limit player opportunity because of player misconduct. You're denying people who may want to enjoy something very different in Eureka because of bad behavior--punishing the entire class because of the behavior of one or two students, and I despise that mentality. I would rather see harsher punishment on the individual for behaving poorly. If we took that mentality to the extreme, you could make an argument for shutting down all of FFXIV because some players will grief others, troll others, or more seriously stalk and harass players through the game as a medium. Obviously that isn't what you're suggesting, but my point is that isn't the right mentality to hold. We should not deny players fun because a select few will abuse that.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

To be honest, I don't think it's fair to limit player opportunity because of player misconduct. You're denying people who may want to enjoy something very different in Eureka because of bad behavior--punishing the entire class because of the behavior of one or two students, and I despise that mentality. I would rather see harsher punishment on the individual for behaving poorly. If we took that mentality to the extreme, you could make an argument for shutting down all of FFXIV because some players will grief others, troll others, or more seriously stalk and harass players through the game as a medium. Obviously that isn't what you're suggesting, but my point is that isn't the right mentality to hold. We should not deny players fun because a select few will abuse that.

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Fair. However, my point still stands because even if a blue mage was playing benevolently they could still potentially cause problems for other players by killing NMs too quickly by just doing their damage rotation -- NMs that are needed for leveling, and relic progress. It's already possible to not get full kill credit on A, and S ranks because they die too quickly -- even being a in full party of tanks, and being there for the pull. At this point in the expansion it's basically considered rude to do your normal opener, and damage rotation on an S rank -- at least on my data center. It wouldn't be fair to expect a blue mage to limit themselves because that would defeat the whole point of letting them in in the first place. My main concern is that it could turn what's supposed to be a multiplayer experience into a single player's game.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

Fair. However, my point still stands because even if a blue mage was playing benevolently they could still potentially cause problems for other players by killing NMs too quickly by just doing their damage rotation -- NMs that are needed for leveling, and relic progress. It's already possible to not get full kill credit on A, and S ranks because they die too quickly -- even being a in full party of tanks, and being there for the pull. At this point in the expansion it's basically considered rude to do your normal opener, and damage rotation on an S rank -- at least on my data center. It wouldn't be fair to expect a blue mage to limit themselves because that would defeat the whole point of letting them in in the first place. My main concern is that it could turn what's supposed to be a multiplayer experience into a single player's game.

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Then handicap it if it's that big of an issue. I'm sure if given the option between playing blue mage with a weaker burst or not playing blue mage at all, players interested would choose the later option.

I agree with first and last suggestions there. However, when it comes to allowing them into hardcore content like DD solo would completely annihilate any competitive aspect with their ridiculous clearing potential; and allowing them into field areas would just completely destroy any difficulty aspects of those, making all other jobs obsolete. It's bad idea to put them in such environments because things like BA or DRS will just become complete jokes.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Then handicap it if it's that big of an issue. I'm sure if given the option between playing blue mage with a weaker burst or not playing blue mage at all, players interested would choose the later option.

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I think a better solution would be to have limited job only instances.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

I agree with first and last suggestions there. However, when it comes to allowing them into hardcore content like DD solo would completely annihilate any competitive aspect with their ridiculous clearing potential; and allowing them into field areas would just completely destroy any difficulty aspects of those, making all other jobs obsolete. It's bad idea to put them in such environments because things like BA or DRS will just become complete jokes.

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This imo adds fuel to the fire that limited was a mistake. Can't let a limited job enjoy entire sections of content, permanently, because it wouldn't be enjoyable to everyone else. Nice job making a job that is so problematic that it is argued to be excluded... Real top quality design :(... (Sarcasm if not obvious).

BLU is starving for content, and what is there typically requires some level of commitment I'm just not ready or willing to give, even if I were interested in said content, and even if I had a reason to want to do them. I don't have a reason to, because the reward structure is so devoid of substance. I fear Beastmaster will suffer the same curse. I want their progression to not be linked to higher-end content, I want them to have access to PvP, and I want incentives to play and level them that go further than just being rewarded with a completion stamp.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

This imo adds fuel to the fire that limited was a mistake. Can't let a limited job enjoy entire sections of content, permanently, because it wouldn't be enjoyable to everyone else. Nice job making a job that is so problematic that it is argued to be excluded... Real top quality design :(... (Sarcasm if not obvious).

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That's because the mistake wasn't the exclusionary design but calling it a job. BLU was fundamentally not designed to be a job, and acting like it's somehow design issue that it's not a job is stupid. Limited jobs are it's own type of side content, in similar vein to stuff like Gold Saucer or Island Sanctuary. Completely self contained side thing that isn't meant to really interfere with existing core systems. The biggest mistakes were calling them jobs and putting them on job tab of character panel.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

That's because the mistake wasn't the exclusionary design but calling it a job. BLU was fundamentally not designed to be a job, and acting like it's somehow design issue that it's not a job is stupid. Limited jobs are it's own type of side content, in similar vein to stuff like Gold Saucer or Island Sanctuary. Completely self contained side thing that isn't meant to really interfere with existing core systems. The biggest mistakes were calling them jobs and putting them on job tab of character panel.

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Id accept that logic as a counter point. Honestly would have been happier if they had just introduced lancet as a gimmick item side content without a job nomenclature lol. Then the pretense would be lost at least, and the dream wouldn't feel like it was smeared with dirt and misleading concepts.

Though they called it a job, so I think it's quite fair to view it through the lens of both their poorly chosen article and also from the general space of player desire ('i desired to main it' what it got was a mini-game specific to much smaller audience that I was not included on). Of course it's their right to design how they want, could release Teletubbies as the next race and used car salesman as the next job, but I'll feel comfortable criticizing choices that I think were not good then.