6.0 Stat Squish will be good for tanks

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

Then maybe it's time they return to Hard mode dungeons. We didn't get ANY hard mode dungeons this expansion, and I for one was hoping (half expecting) some hard modes from stormblood. Chalk it up to lack of time or not enough dev's for all the projects going on.

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I mean, I don't think you could call the old 'hard' dungeons hard. They were still scaled the exact same as every other dungeon in the level range. The 'hard' label is just that it is a higher level than the original dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

The biggest concern with FF14 is that Yoshi admitted old content may become harder and that "they might look into it and see what they can do". They have no set plan for something that a much larger MMO company has tried, failed and struggled badly with. This is a complicated task, they can't underestimate it, they need to know exactly what they're doing.

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I think you might have misunderstood the statement. Older content being harder is only related to doing it unsynced. Doing it synced, it should feel exactly the same as it does now, just lower numbers.

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Originally Posted by Ftail

Square Enix doesn’t listen to customer feedback or concerns, that should really be obvious by now.

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I actually raised concerns over power creep all the way back in ARR because we were level 50 and already over 9999 hp and using ilvl 120 gear. (Comparing to ffxi which went the majority of its lifespan without using ilvl gear and even at the end of the games life tanks at level 99 in the best gear still only sit at around 6k hp). If they’d listened and nipped it in the bud back then stat squish could have been avoided entirely, but nope, didn’t listen.

As for OP, the stat squish is across the board, we’ll deal less damage but we’re also going to have less health and take less damage so everything should realistically be the same just the numbers will be smaller. Think of it kind of like if you had 10k health and you were taking 5k damage and you just cut a 0 off the end of both numbers, now you have 1k health and you’re taking 500 damage, same result just smaller amounts.

Guess that means we should stock up on High Allagan glam stones and stuff while it's still super easy to acquire.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Guess that means we should stock up on High Allagan glam stones and stuff while it's still super easy to acquire.

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Yeah, Binding Coil accessibility is going to take a big hit from this. It sounds like the easiest it's going to get post-squish would be equivalent to doing it around level 60 now. Maybe low-geared 70 if we're lucky.

Fingers crossed this may finally be the expansion that they bring in a "story mode" version instead of blocking it off even harder.

I need to look at farming some Dreadwyrm weapons while I still can.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Yeah, Binding Coil accessibility is going to take a big hit from this. It sounds like the easiest it's going to get post-squish would be equivalent to doing it around level 60 now. Maybe low-geared 70 if we're lucky.

Fingers crossed this may finally be the expansion that they bring in a "story mode" version instead of blocking it off even harder.

I need to look at farming some Dreadwyrm weapons while I still can.

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If the numbers end up how they're talking about, our i530 80 is going to be approximately i340 70.

We will then have level 90 and the entirety of i-scaling there in addition, assuming they also don't add a scaling effect per level higher than the duty you're doing. (Like +5% echo per level)

I feel like everything is gonna be the same just smaller numbers.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

If the numbers end up how they're talking about, our i530 80 is going to be approximately i340 70.

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I haven't seen detailed numbers, but I thought they said our stats would be unchanged up to level 50 but then fairly flat from 50-80 before picking up again for 80-90.

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Originally Posted by AC9Breaker

I feel like everything is gonna be the same just smaller numbers.

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That's exactly what it will be for at-level/synced content.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

If the numbers end up how they're talking about, our i530 80 is going to be approximately i340 70.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I haven't seen detailed numbers, but I thought they said our stats would be unchanged up to level 50 but then fairly flat from 50-80 before picking up again for 80-90.

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I'm not asking to challenge what you're saying Kabooa, I'm genuinely interested in the specifics. Like Iscah, I haven't seen detailed numbers. Can you share the source of that information? I remembered hearing details, something like 51-80 being condensed to 51-60's stat growth (or maybe it was 51-70), but haven't been able to track that info down at all.

Given all of the talks about stat squishing going on in the forums here, I'd like to have more details to properly discuss it.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

As for OP, the stat squish is across the board, we’ll deal less damage but we’re also going to have less health and take less damage so everything should realistically be the same just the numbers will be smaller. Think of it kind of like if you had 10k health and you were taking 5k damage and you just cut a 0 off the end of both numbers, now you have 1k health and you’re taking 500 damage, same result just smaller amounts.

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They are adjusting the scaling formulas to be flatter as gear growth rates are the source of the problem where as the numbers output are a symptom of the problem.

Look at the PLD's solo HP in various "endgame" content:

• Wander's Palace - Level 50 minilevel i45 - 3954
• Amdapor Keep (hard) - Level 50 ARR ilevelcap i130 - 9217
• ARF - Level 60 minilevel i142 -14108
• Baelsar's Wall - level 60 HW ilevelcap i270 - 34526
• Ala Mhigo - Level 70 minilevel i280 - 38935
• Ghimlyt Dark - Level 70 StB ilevelcap i400 - 75227
• Bozjan Southern From - level 80 ilevelsync i430 - 111151
• unsynced i522 - 187444

The biggest jumps are at the various caps (where ilevels go up by ~100 each expac) rather than between expansions.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

That's exactly what it will be for at-level/synced content.

I'm not asking to challenge what you're saying Kabooa, I'm genuinely interested in the specifics. Like Iscah, I haven't seen detailed numbers. Can you share the source of that information? I remembered hearing details, something like 51-80 being condensed to 51-60's stat growth (or maybe it was 51-70), but haven't been able to track that info down at all.

Given all of the talks about stat squishing going on in the forums here, I'd like to have more details to properly discuss it.

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We can only work off the brief example they gave us, which is YoshiP flexing his BIS Black Mage. If you watch the video again, he gives the example that he deals approximately 50,000 damage per Fire 4 (Which checks out.). After the squish, he'd be doing 10,000. Doing this directly do a DPS log would put it around 4.5-5.5k DPS, which is about BIS Deltascape. Now it's not an easy translation, potencies have changed, new actions have been added, and other tweaks have been made since then.

Quite simply, we know what they're going to do, but we don't know how they're going to do it. They gave us an intended goal, but because we have no PTR, the only testing that can happen will be expansion day, and there are far, far more important things to do than worry about the numbers and unsynced content.

However, I'm not particularly worried. There's a reason for that. I disagree with some of their overall design decisions, but I've not found their math to be wrong. The core principle guiding the decisions often goes wayward, but when the goal is set, the math is impeccable.

ARR doesn't change. This is the baseline they appear to want to follow. From there, hey scale the leveling process, and then set an entry and end point at each tier. They do not update encounters to reflect changes to classes and expansions, even Ultimate (so far at least.).

So while this is purely speculation, this is how I see it going.

ARR unchanged. The new formula is implemented. Growth1 (As we are now) is checked compared to Growth2 (Our new formula.) Content number is tuned around these checks. This might seem like there's a lot of room to go wrong, but they've already done all of Growth1. Classes have only gotten stronger since their implementation in terms of numbers, so if they want to really crunch the numbers, they'd rerun Growth1 with the most up to date formula and potencies.

Using the vault as an example, they know a Dragoon in appropriate gear has X HP, Y Attack Power at level 57 on Growth1. They check their new formula at this level, plug in the stats, and get X2 HP, and Y2 Attack Power.

X2 is divided by X - This is how much unavoidable damage needs to decrease to be proportional.

Y2 divided by Y - This is how much Enemy health needs to decrease to be proportional.

To illustrate this, we'll say that at Growth1, a Level 57 Dragoon has 10,000 HP and 1000 Attack Power. With the new formula, Growth 2, the same dragoon has 8,200 HP and 820 Attack power.

Incoming damage needs to be lowered to 8,200/10,000 or to 82%.

Enemy health has to be lowered to 820/1000 or to 82%.

By extension, every enemy level 57 to 58 can be assumed to have a similar reduction needed - after all, they were all tuned with Growth1 already.

This is an overly simplistic example. The damage formula has changed over time, and potencies have shifted upwards, but the principle is the same. If I asked you to go through 100 sets of numbers, and work them through a different formula, I have no doubt you'd succeed. You might get some wrong along the way, but you also have 20 points of extra credit (Level 90 and new actions) so in the end, I think you're going to be fine.

Edit: https://youtu.be/FJLNV5cYN_U?t=6373

Here is the information most of us are working from.

Please keep in mind - They stress this is just an example, and they 'expect' the result to be in that range.