How to deal with Cure/Benefic 1?

To be fair, it's not like they haven't tried. On paper, Cure is a great ability. It gives you a weave/movement window, it's more mana efficient than Cure II and it comes with a decent proc. The problem is with how the game is designed. Saving a GCD is just too good.

Maybe it should be the other way around and Cure II should have a chance to proc an instant Cure I?

Cant just remove them, still need them for low end content, plus they are good for fluff damage.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Y'know, we don't really need Medica II or Helios either, right? Let's get rid of those, too.

Just like we never needed Aero III, Miasma, etc., right?

If there's any chance of making skills, or the niches into which they ought to fit, more useful and enjoyable rather than outright removing them, can we at least take the time to consider those possibilities before joining the devs on the 'just gut it all' bandwagon?

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Removing Aero 3 was not only bone headed, but chopped off a big source of WHM dps.

Hey Aurora Aura,

The important point is the cast time. The low cast time gives you a shout window to reave some skill and open up ways to heal. You CAN make use of it. I give some esampels for that:

WHM : vita + teragram. = 1150 heal in one gdc with 400 mana only (But, thats only okay if you have no lilli -> inst. skills make a better window)

SCH: physics + illustate = 1000 heal for 400 mana in one gcd

AST: Bene I + dignitiy = 800 - 1500 heal for 400 mana in one gcd

The thinking here is that you do not clip here. That can clip with the stronger heals (Bene II, Vita II, sch has nothing that we can compear). So If you realy want to use a GCD heal AND and you can combo it with talents (OGCD). The low ranks from this healer skills are strong because the way not to clip.

That is ony way to heal. Like someone here say the most of the player do not want to use GCDheal and for this Playbase it count as mistake, but SE want give every player the way to play there Healerjob. So I would say there is no worng or bad as long nobody is dead.

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Originally Posted by Heilstos

as long nobody is dead.

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its possible to heal soooo much, that everyone dies. (enrage timer)
this is why ppl make the argument to lessen GCD healing.
Im with the OP, make cure2 proc a stronger cure1. It also needs more than that, but WHm lacks the tools to do any more than that atm. maybe next expansion.
For AST, its only oGCD DPS are the cards, so maybe the proced heal lowers the CD of one of yoru card abilities, be it draw, redraw, divination, etc.
For WHM i can only think of a cure1 proc also effecting the next stone/glare dmg to help encourage the use of cure1proc over cure2normal.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Alright, as it stands when you reach a certain point those skill become useless as Cure/Benefic II are superior in every way, yet they still remain because they're tied to traits that are just as useless due to needing the spells.

Therefore I propose moving those traits to either DPS skills (Stone/Malefic) or have them be proced by the II skills they were meant to proc, and then having Cure and Benefic be subjected to the same treatment as Stone, Aero, Ruin, etc.

Thoughts?

(Physick isn't mentioned here because it's kinda more of a lateral move and has no direct upgrades)

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Glare, Dia and Broil always get downgraded when you go to lower level content so I don't see why they can't do the same with Cure II. I would love to see this honestly as we're long passed the days of trying to proc for Cure II.

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Originally Posted by Rasikko

Removing Aero 3 was not only bone headed, but chopped off a big source of WHM dps.

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The thing is, though, as long as we're looking at design only in terms of reaching X HPS or DPS, all we need to do is adjust the remaining kit; we lose only gameplay, not output.
Why have decisions when we can just increase Holy's potency floor to make up for the loss of Aero III?
Why have decisions when we can just drop the tickle-heal of Medica II once we have Solace for our on-demand?
Why have decisions we can just drop Freecure entirely and upgrade Cure directly into Cure II?

Obviously, I think we should be instead increasing the amount of healing healers have to do, slightly further improving the 'quick-cast' function of the basic skills after their stronger counterparts arrive as to give space enough for a full oGCD weave, and improving on trait features such as Freecure, but the same logic that works for removing Cure/Physic/Benefic here really does follow the same logic that let the devs do away with Aero III and the like.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

The thing is, though, as long as we're looking at design only in terms of reaching X HPS or DPS, all we need to do is adjust the remaining kit; we lose only gameplay, not output.

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I wouldn't call DoTs gameplay unless there are meaningful interactions with them. Without that, they're just 'bigger potency' buttons you can't push all the time.

I've missed Aero 3's animation more than I have the spell itself.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I wouldn't call DoTs gameplay unless there are meaningful interactions with them. Without that, they're just 'bigger potency' buttons you can't push all the time.

I've missed Aero 3's animation more than I have the spell itself.

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And that's fair, and the case far more for Aero III (which was a 120% GCD cast and then a 100% GCD cast) than for Aero II / Dia, which at least provide opportunities for mobility and weaving, and which we kept probably for that exact reason.

I'm just saying that there's no spell past the first couple we've ever "needed" in terms of HPS or DPS, given that the others could just be tuned higher to compensate for the loss. The question has always been and always will be what gameplay they permit.

Do we want a gamestate that allows for (a more polished and appealing version of) Cure/Benefic/Physick to see use, or do we not? That's the question here, not the HPS or DPS that comes with button pruning, since those matters (after a single hotfix, at most) quickly end up at little to no net change.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I wouldn't call DoTs gameplay unless there are meaningful interactions with them. Without that, they're just 'bigger potency' buttons you can't push all the time.

I've missed Aero 3's animation more than I have the spell itself.

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The gameplay from DoTs come from having to remember to refresh them when its time, but not too soon. Its not deep by any means, but two dots is more entertaining than just one.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I wouldn't call DoTs gameplay unless there are meaningful interactions with them. Without that, they're just 'bigger potency' buttons you can't push all the time.

I've missed Aero 3's animation more than I have the spell itself.

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I miss both, but yeah. The animation for Aero 3 was great.