Slashing Debuff Question

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

. A tanking WAR would then be free to keep Path up 100% of the time, gaining 10% raidwide mitigation.

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Except there is 0 need to keep Path up 100% of the time. You throw it up before a big hit maybe but that's it.

Your suggestions would lower DPS, which could be more costly than having path up. Especially in current content, where with enough DPS you can push phases and avoid extra damage altogether.

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

Except there is 0 need to keep Path up 100% of the time. You throw it up before a big hit maybe but that's it.

Your suggestions would lower DPS, which could be more costly than having path up. Especially in current content, where with enough DPS you can push phases and avoid extra damage altogether.

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Eh, kinda depends on the situation. Mitigation has always been overlooked in this game, primarily because we don't have many instances where it's REALLY needed. But it never hurts. More mitigation means healers can also DPS more. For essential hard to meet DPS checks, yea, go for the extra DPS. If you have a PLD as the other tank, he can also put up RoH's debuff and is nice when paired with SP.

Mitigation is overlooked because all raids are scripted. All big damage goes out at set times. So it's very easy to just apply Path when needed, instead of all the time
The tanks that take the auto attack damage all the time are going to receive essentially the same amount of heals at the same rate regardless of 10% mitigation. So it's best to just increase DPS output until such mitigation provides meaningful benefit to the raid

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Originally Posted by Malicewolf

Eh, kinda depends on the situation. Mitigation has always been overlooked in this game, primarily because we don't have many instances where it's REALLY needed. But it never hurts. More mitigation means healers can also DPS more. For essential hard to meet DPS checks, yea, go for the extra DPS. If you have a PLD as the other tank, he can also put up RoH's debuff and is nice when paired with SP.

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Storm's Path is incredibly worthless outside of raid wide AoE's. Keeping it up 100% of the time would result in no actual benefit, and instead would actually lower group DPS by a significant margin. If you're scared of accidentally stealing hate, just cycle Storm's until the mt has enough of a hate lead to BB, or SP is actually needed.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Storm's Path is incredibly worthless outside of raid wide AoE's. Keeping it up 100% of the time would result in no actual benefit, and instead would actually lower group DPS by a significant margin. If you're scared of accidentally stealing hate, just cycle Storm's until the mt has enough of a hate lead to BB, or SP is actually needed.

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How big is the actual DPS loss for keeping Path up? Saying it's a significant group dps loss sounds like a vast exaggeration.

How to Storm's Path:

- Start by using Eye -> Path -> repeat.
- Next, work in when you can Fracture and get the full duration of it every time it's applied.
- Next determine when you can drop Path for at least 3-4 combo rotations, this can be for an extensive period of time or a very precise one depending on the fight.

100% Path is extremely valuable during progression when no one knows their GCD timings, when healers need to use healing CDs, what the tanks need to use for each tank buster/cleave/etc. It's literally a Disable you can put on the boss whenever you like and that's nothing to scoff at. Once things start getting smoother you can start working in BB to your rotation, but playing safe is 100% better for your group for progression unless you're on an important DPS check. I think ever since Xeno said "Path is only valuable for tank busters/raid damage" that everyone took that as matter of fact rather than a statement mainly applying to once your group is comfortable with the fight.

It's also less of a DPS loss than it used to be, so even if you're worried about DPS loss it really won't factor into it much especially outside of Berserk and stuff.

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Originally Posted by Kakerziam

Warrior can put up Storm's Eye, and Ninjas can put up Dancing Edge. These debuffs kinda fight each other. My question is, is Dancing Edge part of their dps rotation or do they just not trust the Warrior to put up Storm's Eye? Sorry for the dumb question.

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WAR > NIN.

I didn't read any comments yet, so I'll apologize if it was already mentioned.

Not using Dancing Edge allows NIN to deal more damage using Aoelian Edge from the rear. However, while I'm no NIN creator, I WILL use Dancing Edge even if a WAR is present in two forms:

- As a NIN, I'd use Dancing Edge in the beginning to give WAR time to build up to it.
- If for whatever reason that I can't get behind the mob for Aeolian Edge, or the sides for Armor Crush, Dancing Edge is the higher potency outside of a positional buff.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

NIN keeping slashing up means they lose about 2% dps

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

How big is the actual DPS loss for keeping Path up? Saying it's a significant group dps loss sounds like a vast exaggeration.

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Make up your mind, do you care about raid dps or not?
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Regarding Storm Path & Rage of Halone, they should be applied before the tank buster or big aoe only. Having them with high up-time is unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by Miyaka_Vigiles

Make up your mind, do you care about raid dps or not?

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I don't really see any clashes between the two quoted statements. One post says pretty much "it's just 2% (or less)" (and suggests, as I understood it, that NIN doing debuff leaves the WAR able to rotate BB/SP combos instead*); the other merely asks for specifics regarding how much dps is lost. I agree that "significant group dps" seems like an exaggeration, and a pretty fuzzy one at that. Are we talking 5%? 10%? 25%? Different people (depending on how raid-oriented they are) would probably have different opinions regarding what's counted as a "significant" dps loss.


*)As MT, it means both debuffs are kept up, as OT, it means higher DPS output, since BB combo has higher potency than SE/SP combo. Personally, I tend to rotate SE/SP combos as OT, but if I have a NIN who keeps putting up their debuff, I'll switch to BB/SE instead.

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Originally Posted by Miyaka_Vigiles

Make up your mind, do you care about raid dps or not?
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Regarding Storm Path & Rage of Halone, they should be applied before the tank buster or big aoe only. Having them with high up-time is unnecessary.

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2% loss for a single member of an 8-member party (NIN) is extremely minimal. 10 potency loss every 6th GCD is extremely minimal (swapping SE to SP) for gaining 10% mitigation, possibly allowing more DPS from healers or the tank to be in DPS stance (raid DPS gain). What I was interested in was if someone had done the math or testing on the 40 potency loss every 6th GCD (BB to SP) because WAR isn't my main I can't be arsed to do it myself.