The point of talking about the other classes/jobs "useless" skills is to bring into frame that if changes were made to your one desired skill here for LNC (not DRG), then the devs would have to go around and change everything else. If they did an abilities update, I am sure LNC/DRG would see more than one change (maybe even what some would call detrimental or breaking). As a developer, that's what I would do after having sat down in a conference meeting to address possible changes. I mean, why wait and not change it now? "True Thrust should be granted a flank potency bonus." And make all DRGs into MNKs where they have to dance between flank-rear positions to maximize DPS. Is that what you want?
And this:
That is exactly what your OP post is asking for! In fact, any references to DRG being a melee DPS was not insinuating that it shouldn't have Piercing Talon. One poster even mentioned that it is something you can already do during those mini-downtimes you get from being forced to evade attacks. Your OP post makes it sound like you want to be able to spam it all fight long while Titan does 3x Landslide with a follow up of Weight of the Land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altena
Likewise, many of the posters have said it is fine as it is, myself included. And lastly, you continue to disregard the fact that it is not a DRG skill, it is a LNC skill. Some skills are given to the classes because they are a prelude to what may come when later changed as a job. Take for example my reference to Archer's Quick Nock. One can say it is a mini-version of the commonly used Wide Volley. And some skills are just there for utilitarian purposes. It is so obvious that mainstream usage was never intended.
If I were part of the developer team, I too would have made Piercing Talon ridiculously costly and "not worth the while except in certain cases." I want DRGs to stand by the enemy, not away from it. If I were a developer...
Lower the TP cost on Piercing Talon
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06-20-2014, 01:27 AMAltaeciana
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06-20-2014, 01:34 AMSouljacker
The problems will become more pronounced if SE ever evolves this game into a modern mmo, and we can see real data regarding disconnects during fights. As it stands right now, this is a pseudommo in many regards, so this is why there will be pushback against making "melee" classes have weak "ranged" abilities that are useful.
I do expect that at some point, when SE realizes that progression raiders want complicated content that they can maximize classes against, things like Piercing Talon will be revisited. I also agree that melee classes ESPECIALLY need compensation for disconnects. -
06-20-2014, 01:45 AMEhayte
Piercing Talon is totally useless for a DRG.
Piercing Talon is pretty much useless for a LNC.
Piercing Talon could be imperative for the Lancer-based Tank class : D -
06-20-2014, 02:10 AMLemon8orIt's already in game and called higher DPS when you don't disconnect. :/ And yeah Piercing Talon makes me think they might want to implement Templar as a Lancer-based Tank seeing how both mrd and gld get their range pull at 15.Quote:
Originally Posted by Souljacker
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06-20-2014, 03:34 AMDwillQuick Knock is Bard's best AoE if they are well positioned and Miasma II is staple in the smn's opening rotation and on anything that has 2 or more targets in its range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altaeciana
That quote makes your credibility on this topic leave much to be desired. -
06-20-2014, 04:04 AMPhylloWant an example where PT is not useless?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehayte
-You get "heavy" and use evasive jump to get rid of it, now you can use piercing talon while getting back to melee
-the monster you're targeting is about to die, with your DOT on you can afford to switch target before killing him since he'll die in a second, use PT while running to the next one
-there's an AOE you need to dodge, use PT while it lasts until you're back to melee
And so on.
Don't go telling me that it depletes your tp, the cost isn't that high besides you got a skill to refill your tp not to mention the potion whose price is reaaaaally cheap and gives you enough time for the refill skill (forgot the name) to finish its cd, you just have no excuses not to use it.
But yeah I do think it would be quite useful for a future tank class tho it doesn't have any enmity effect :/ -
06-20-2014, 04:18 AMEggnook24
Invigorate. :)
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06-20-2014, 05:10 AMNanahoNot sure how hard you play, but without Piercing talon im still running low on TP in a lot of Endgame content, even with invigorate. any piercing talons in their would drop my DPS prfoundly because of the TP costQuote:
Originally Posted by Phyllo
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06-20-2014, 05:17 AMLemon8orPiercing Talon is 130 TP for 120 potency. It's up there as one of the worst TP/potency skill. And please tell me about this magical reaaaaally cheap potion you're talking about cause no potions ingame gives you TP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phyllo
Last but not least: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...nt/detail/747/
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...nt/category/3/ -
06-20-2014, 03:31 PMAltenaYou are evidently arguing semantics. At end game (which is what we are talking about here), you would be a fool to choose LNC over DRG. Therefore the adjustment would effect DRG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altaeciana
No, they don't "have" to do anything. Some classes already have "more" useless skills then others. This is not a job vs job war here, which it appears you seem to keep falling back on. Piercing Talon is ONE of the more useless skills in this entire game, with a simple TP adjustment could make it useful. Other skills, on other classes have more issues then simply costing too much TP. Why are you so against adjusting one skill for one class in such a minute way? As an archer main (according to your profile) you are probably one of the classes that has the least amount of "useless" skills. Why are you complaining if DRG were to get a TP reduction on a weak ranged attack? It's not like your life as a BRD will change...Quote:
, then the devs would have to go around and change everything else.
Slight adjustments are made pretty much every major patch. Some slight nerfs, some buffs, that's just the way balancing goes. All I am asking for is a TP reduction on Talon. Not really much to ask for compared to others complaining that BLM damage is too weak.Quote:
If they did an abilities update, I am sure LNC/DRG would see more than one change (maybe even what some would call detrimental or breaking).
Wot? Please tell me where I said anything about positional requirements, or are you just going off on a random tangent that is completely irrelevent to this discussion. NO I do not want DRG to be like MNK. If I did, why wouldn't I just play MNK as well? Guess what, I already do! Such a shock.Quote:
As a developer, that's what I would do after having sat down in a conference meeting to address possible changes. I mean, why wait and not change it now? "True Thrust should be granted a flank potency bonus." And make all DRGs into MNKs where they have to dance between flank-rear positions to maximize DPS. Is that what you want?
And this:
Ermmmm no lol... If I wanted a full ranged DPS I would play BRD or a caster. (Which I also do for grindy content already). What I am asking for is to reduce the TP cost of a skill that is already in the game, make it worth using so that we can fill the gap during disconnects. Where in my post are you getting the impression that I want to be a DRG that sits at ranged and spams Piercing Talon all day?Quote:
That is exactly what your OP post is asking for! In fact, any references to DRG being a melee DPS was not insinuating that it shouldn't have Piercing Talon
Then you are evidently reading my OP incorrectly. There is already a disadvantage to using Talon during disconnects and that is it interrupts your combo, on top of that it is extremely weak and has a huge TP cost. In its current state, it is actually an extremely poor choice - to use Talon for any reason aside from solo pulling while questing. Reducing the cost to approximately the same as a combo starter (70-80TP) would at least make it usable.Quote:
One poster even mentioned that it is something you can already do during those mini-downtimes you get from being forced to evade attacks. Your OP post makes it sound like you want to be able to spam it all fight long while Titan does 3x Landslide with a follow up of Weight of the Land.
There will always be people who disagree. Regardless which side is "right" doesn't really matter. Do the people that say it is "fine as it is" actually use it in a fight? My bets are no. The point of reducing the cost would to make it less useless. It is only ONE of the many useless skills in this game, yet it is one of the easiest skills to adjust to make it useful.Quote:
Likewise, many of the posters have said it is fine as it is, myself included.
Seriously, who cares where it comes from? Do you see any LNC's at lvl 50 doing coil or even primals? I don't.. In fact do you really ever see a LNC beyond level 30 - if they have unlocked the DRG quest? You can practically disregard classes once you hit 30. Once again, your argument is on semantics and is extremely weak/pointless.Quote:
And lastly, you continue to disregard the fact that it is not a DRG skill, it is a LNC skill.
What does this have to do with reducing TP cost of a LNC skill? Reducing the TP cost on a "LNC" skill doesn't affect the lore one bit.. It simply makes a skill once again - more usable.Quote:
Some skills are given to the classes because they are a prelude to what may come when later changed as a job.
So you are saying that we have a skill because it's "lore"? That's ridiculous and extremely untrue lol.. Every skill has a purpose. Whether that skill is in its current state, useful or not is beside the point. For a lot of them, simply adjusting them slightly would make them a more usable skill, however what I am requesting with Talon is probably the smallest adjustment the devs could make to a skill.Quote:
Take for example my reference to Archer's Quick Nock. One can say it is a mini-version of the commonly used Wide Volley. And some skills are just there for utilitarian purposes. It is so obvious that mainstream usage was never intended.
Even ARC/BRD's AoE skills have their own individual purpose.
Quick Knock has the lowest TP cost, however requires you to be up close, and it is restricted to a cone. The TP cost is lower because the requirements / ease of use is also higher.
Wide Volley being the opposite - 20 more TP hungry, however it's ranged, and is AoE around the target, so easier to hit stuff, and is ranged - so costs more TP.. They are 2 different skills - for 2 different uses. It just so happens that they threw in a random proc chance / chain, so if you wish, you can spam Wide Volley at 160 TP with a random freebee RoD, or you can stick with the lower TP cost and get 0 procs with Quick Knock..
As for Rain of Death, It got nerfed (probably the most likely cause was to make WAR more appealing with Storm's Path. Stacking both RoD & Path would be a tad overpowered), however the concept of an AoE that has a debuff associated with it is quite strong as a utility skill. (Hence why the extra 20 TP cost on Wide Volley)..
However once again, this isn't a job vs job war here.. Lowering the TP cost on Talon has zero effect on any other class in the game.
Sorry to say, but you are not part of the dev team, and the engagements (aside from a few specific fights) require melee to detach from the mob from time to time - even Turn 6 is a great example, with the vines/tethers. If you are under the impression that all melee just stand next to the mob and bash it *all the time* then you are gravely mistaken I am afraid.Quote:
If I were part of the developer team, I too would have made Piercing Talon ridiculously costly and "not worth the while except in certain cases." I want DRGs to stand by the enemy, not away from it. If I were a developer...