What is going on with Square Enix and the 14 team?

Thrive as what, a visual novel or a Final Fantasy game?

I could see FFXIV not being profitable enough for Square Enix.
And thats not to say this game isn't successful, this is me saying Square Enix is terrible with money.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

This isn't exclusive to Ikara, but I do feel that many people like them simply don't understand this. We aren't complaining just for the sake of complaining. We complain because we care and want the game to continue to do well. I'd like to think that having the game thrive would be beneficial for everyone, but perhaps I'm mistaken or something. Or maybe I'm just not meant to understand what goes on in other peoples' heads.

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Yet I never said don't complain. Im saying why repeat the same thing every single day? It'll take time for things to change and some people are overbearing/rude with this stuff. It doesn't matter if you're doing it because you care, it has to be done correctly. Not everyone here is kind when it comes to complaints and it's rare to see folks "white knight" n claim the game is perfect.

To me people are being hyperbolic when they claim the game is going downhill/declining/dying (see the above xiv thriving to be a visual novel bit for example). I'd maybe believe that more if content queues slowed down, logging in was faster, areas weren't full or some data was out showing a playerbase decline (moreso this last one because it's hard evidence with no personal bias).

We all know the game isn't perfect but man...it really does seem you can't claim to be content witj certain aspects of this game without being called a white knight or boot licker. Or worse yet you're labeled as someone who does want the game to thrive (as ridiculous as that notion is).

I doubt any of us want to game to fail. But the community (as I've said before) has turned this into an "us vs them" situation. People think they are superior in how they think and that will only create issues

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

In regards to WoW players joining...I'll let them in on a little secret...

We've been here all along.

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Little secret: there's a chat channel on my WoW server to openly post FFlogs and discuss rotations and parsing. Started as a joke ("Yoshi P can't touch me here!") back in WoD, but it's now a resource I find myself using to just fight about correct melds and openers.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

The fatigue goes both ways at this point, trust me. And I will admit that I'm not trying to hide it anymore.

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I'm a former healer main, which fills in a lot so I don't have to post it, and definitely burned out on even suggesting things. Criticism is met with such vitriol that it feels like people are personally attacked every time you have an opinion besides "This game is flawless and everything is perfect."

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Yet I never said don't complain. Im saying why repeat the same thing every single day? It'll take time for things to change and some people are overbearing/rude with this stuff. It doesn't matter if you're doing it because you care, it has to be done correctly. Not everyone here is kind when it comes to complaints and it's rare to see folks "white knight" n claim the game is perfect.

To me people are being hyperbolic when they claim the game is going downhill/declining/dying

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A steep decline doesn't happen overnight. Well, unless you try to remove flying from the game like Blizzard did during their Warlords of Draenor expansion. lol What I've been saying is that this could be the start of a decline if we continue settling for mediocre content design. They've seemingly been testing us over the last few years to see how much we will put up with. I could be wrong, but that's the way I see it. It's less of a "sky is falling" situation for me. I'm just trying to warn people before the sky actually DOES fall, or perhaps try to convince others that they can stop it from happening if they take a big enough stand. After seeing what happened to WoW, the signs are there for those who choose to see them. Many do not, and that is frustrating. WoW didn't fall in a day. Or even a year. Heck, not even 3. But it added up over time as poor design decisions piled on top of one another, and so the game is in a terrible state today. I don't want that to happen here, but from what I see, it has potentially begun.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Yet I never said don't complain. Im saying why repeat the same thing every single day? It'll take time for things to change and some people are overbearing/rude with this stuff. It doesn't matter if you're doing it because you care, it has to be done correctly. Not everyone here is kind when it comes to complaints and it's rare to see folks "white knight" n claim the game is perfect.

To me people are being hyperbolic when they claim the game is going downhill/declining/dying (see the above xiv thriving to be a visual novel bit for example). I'd maybe believe that more if content queues slowed down, logging in was faster, areas weren't full or some data was out showing a playerbase decline (moreso this last one because it's hard evidence with no personal bias).

We all know the game isn't perfect but man...it really does seem you can't claim to be content witj certain aspects of this game without being called a white knight or boot licker. Or worse yet you're labeled as someone who does want the game to thrive (as ridiculous as that notion is).

I doubt any of us want to game to fail. But the community (as I've said before) has turned this into an "us vs them" situation. People think they are superior in how they think and that will only create issues

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We’re repeating the same thing every single day because some things haven’t changed in over SIX YEARS. Look at healers. Look how long it took them to fix dark knight, something apparently they weren’t aware about whatsoever. So i would rather see people repeat things and keep it up so the devs can see it than let it be ignored yet again like so many other issues. The way i see people white knight on here is them using the infamous line of “then don’t play the game.” The same way you’re upset people may not let certain people be content with specific aspects, many of us are upset because we can’t critique specific aspects without being told to play another game.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

We’re repeating the same thing every single day because some things haven’t changed in over SIX YEARS. Look at healers. Look how long it took them to fix dark knight, something apparently they weren’t aware about whatsoever. So i would rather see people repeat things and keep it up so the devs can see it than let it be ignored yet again like so many other issues. The way i see people white knight on here is them using the infamous line of “then don’t play the game.” The same way you’re upset people may not let certain people be content with specific aspects, many of us are upset because we can’t critique specific aspects without being told to play another game.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/ftdF4Z...c4b5/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I could see FFXIV not being profitable enough for Square Enix.
And thats not to say this game isn't successful, this is me saying Square Enix is terrible with money.

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You just sunk the nail deep into the wood..

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Criticism is met with such vitriol that it feels like people are personally attacked every time you have an opinion besides "This game is flawless and everything is perfect."

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

..them using the infamous line of “then don’t play the game.” The same way you’re upset people may not let certain people be content with specific aspects, many of us are upset because we can’t critique specific aspects without being told to play another game.

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It just amuses me how long it took for the tables to turn on here. Everytime I read this stuff lately. I was saying this all years ago! :p

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Originally Posted by Arzalis

No, I disagree with this.

He's always polite about how he says it, but I appreciate that he doesn't want me to only play this game and generally respects players time. The mentality you're saying they should have is how you get all sorts of time sinks and time wasters in a game. It leads to a lot of predatory practices nobody wants in this game.

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100% agree on this. While I enjoy playing FF14, and other games, I have a life I enjoy living as well. I don't need FF14 to be Lost Ark, thanks.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It just amuses me how long it took for the tables to turn on here. Everytime I read this stuff lately. I was saying this all years ago! :p

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I woke up to this and suddenly I'm agreeing with people I never thought I'd 100% agree with. :p It's...surreal.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It just amuses me how long it took for the tables to turn on here. Everytime I read this stuff lately. I was saying this all years ago! :p

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To be honest, the influx of new players and an aging old guard have helped. I remember the push back being muuuch worse to criticism, but now you hear more voices joining the chorus. So to speak. The way people used to talk about sprouts who quit during the early MSQ was deplorable. Now people just shrug and go, "Yeah, it's bad."

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I woke up to this and suddenly I'm agreeing with people I never thought I'd 100% agree with. Strange times. :p It's...surreal.

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I know you've seen the arguments I've gotten into over the years on here. Just to see people echoing what I was saying, getting a lot of likes, and people in agreement.. that's surreal to me.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

To be honest, the influx of new players and an aging old guard have helped. I remember the push back being muuuch worse to criticism, but now you hear more voices joining the chorus. So to speak. The way people used to talk about sprouts who quit during the early MSQ was deplorable. Now people just shrug and go, "Yeah, it's bad."

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I have a thread from 2019 talking about the new player experience, and I had to solely defend my view.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Just to see people echoing what I was saying, getting a lot of likes, and people in agreement.. that's surreal to me.

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It needed to happen, and it is, so it's a welcome change to say the least.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I have a thread from 2019 talking about the new player experience, and I had to solely defend my view.

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One of my first threads was about letting new players do Coil. Adding it to the MSQ or making it more easily available. I was flogged about how it was too hard, and no one would ever like it or do it.

Then the great Streamer Event happens and every sprout in sight was joining and making a Coils syncd party.

Also I completely agree with you then and now that the new player experience is bogus.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

One of my first threads was about letting new players do Coil. Adding it to the MSQ or making it more easily available. I was flogged about how it was too hard, and no one would ever like it or do it.

Then the great Streamer Event happens and every sprout in sight was joining and making a Coils syncd party.

Also I completely agree with you then and now that the new player experience is bogus.

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I've never even done coils, and I don't think I even knew what it really was for the longest time. :eek:

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

100% agree on this. While I enjoy playing FF14, and other games, I have a life I enjoy living as well. I don't need FF14 to be Lost Ark, thanks.

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So we should kneecap the game let it continue to stumble for the demographic of people who don't want to play it that much because they're selfish and think shutting out options for others makes their gameplay better.

This isn't even a good business decision in the most sociopathic sense.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

100% agree on this. While I enjoy playing FF14, and other games, I have a life I enjoy living as well. I don't need FF14 to be Lost Ark, thanks.

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If this game respected your time it wouldn't kill off jobs people have invested years in. And I don't know who told you what about Lost Ark, but it's actually less commitment than 14 after the initial hurdle.

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Originally Posted by Roxus

If this game respected your time it wouldn't kill off jobs people have invested years in. And I don't know who told you what about Lost Ark, but it's actually less commitment than 14 after the initial hurdle.

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Correct. Before SE decided to remove Kaiten, I think they never outright removed important abilities to the overall job structure. Now, they show you how much they respect your time (sorry this saying is just hilarious lmao) by taking away all the time you've put into your rotation. All the fond days of leveling your job with said ability only for them to swoop in and take it away from you.

I cannot describe how much I hate this respect your time bullshit saying. You are still playing a game digitally and wasting houndreds if not thousands of hours on 'something' with no return. Except now, your brain isn't being used for anything. What's being respected is that you guys are losers to them and they can brush off feedback since you like to invade our spaces and stiffle the discussion about their misconduct.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

Correct. Before SE decided to remove Kaiten, I think they never outright removed important abilities to the overall job structure. Now, they show you how much they respect your time (sorry this saying is just hilarious lmao) by taking away all the time you've put into your rotation. All the fond days of leveling your job with said ability only for them to swoop in and take it away from you.

I cannot describe how much I hate this respect your time bullshit saying. You are still playing a game digitally and wasting houndreds if not thousands of hours on 'something' with no return. Except now, your brain isn't being used for anything. What's being respected is that you guys are losers to them and they can brush off feedback since you like to invade our spaces and stiffle the discussion about their misconduct.

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I don’t mean to be rude….but this is kind of extremely tone deaf to healer woes lol and a partial reason why a lot of healer mains are upset atm. Samurai is NOT the first example of SE removing important abilities related to job structure. Let’s look at Scholar for example. They used to basically be the dot healer. They had Aero,Thunder,Shadow flare,Bio, bio 2, Miasma,Bane. Now? They only have bio… Even just looking at their fairies and the job structure around that, the fairies used to be unique and different. Now they’re literally exact clones of each other and use the same abilities. People only notice and speak out about the problems when it’s related to dps. Healer mains have spoken out for 6 years about this and nothing has changed :p

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

The fatigue goes both ways at this point, trust me. And I will admit that I'm not trying to hide it anymore.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/ftdF4Z...c4b5/giphy.gif

Unashamedly stealing your gif here, but if it works, it works. :p

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Originally Posted by Roxus

If this game respected your time it wouldn't kill off jobs people have invested years in. And I don't know who told you what about Lost Ark, but it's actually less commitment than 14 after the initial hurdle.

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This "respect player's time" and yoshi saying to unsub and play other games is pretty disingenuous. If this was actually the case, there wouldn't be so many timegates and lockouts keeping you from doing things.
Takes months to get geared from a Savage tier because of how gated their drops are, even if you don't get a drop you're locked from the week.
Alliance raids do it too and their gear isn't even the best.
Hell it takes like 2 months to complete the very end of the Nier quest for basically no reason, and honestly the entire housing system seems dedicated on keeping you resubbing so your house doesn't get destroyed while your "time is being respected", with the punishment being you have to go through the entire horrendous process of buying a house again, which is funny enough, now time gated again with 9 day cycles.

But yeah your time is being respected.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

This "respect player's time" and yoshi saying to unsub and play other games is pretty disingenuous. If this was actually the case, there wouldn't be so many timegates and lockouts keeping you from doing things.

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Five words:
"Player Housing & Demolition timer"

People are always comparing this game to wow and lost ark saying how these games don´t respect your time but never the games with better practices about it like destiny 2 or path of exile that while they are grindy themselves, you don't really have to put that much time into them weekly to be relevant and have fun with said games.

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Originally Posted by Minarisweet

People are always comparing this game to wow and lost ark saying how these games don´t respect your time but never the games with better practices about it like destiny 2 or path of exile that while they are grindy themselves, you don't really have to put that much time into them weekly to be relevant and have fun with said games.

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A lot of people with Lost Ark are on a hate bandwagon, and the complaints I've read are pretty ignorant of reality. How many weeks does it take to get geared up in this game on one job? I got the new 'Glavier' class to 1370 in one day, without spending real money on progression. People complaining about Lost Ark exaggerate the pay to win aspect, and simply don't like the perception a honing failure gives. It's largely surface level complaints. I can get through the tiers on a fresh character, in a few weeks. Here, I don't even have my full tomestone set on white mage. It takes like what... 7 weeks to upgrade your weapon?

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

A lot of people with Lost Ark are on a hate bandwagon, and the complaints I've read are pretty ignorant of reality. How many weeks does it take to get geared up in this game on one job? I got the new 'Glavier' class to 1370 in one day, without spending real money on progression. People complaining about Lost Ark exaggerate the pay to win aspect, and simply don't like the perception a honing failure gives. It's largely surface level complaints. I can get through the tiers on a fresh character, in a few weeks. Here, I don't even have my full tomestone set on white mage. It takes like what... 7 weeks to upgrade your weapon?

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Yeah, Lost Ark is pretty generous when it comes to helping players catch up. I started a month after the game launched and between the rewards offered from quests and dungeons/raids I was able to gear up my character very easily without resorting to using the cash shop. The daily login rewards are so generous that I even ended up having spare materials sitting in my inventory.

I can also take a break whenever I desire and not lose anything...which cannot be said of FFXIV. I get that different tastes exist but I think it's time FFXIV is viewed with a more critical eye because there are things that other MMO's are doing better.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Five words:
"Player Housing & Demolition timer"

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Ah. Of course. I worked my ass off for a small house in Kugane only for them to take it away from me in a month because I didn't feel like subscribing. Respect your time my ass. Go play other games and come back to an empty plot. Hypocrisy at its finest.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I can also take a break whenever I desire and not lose anything...which cannot be said of FFXIV. I get that different tastes exist but I think it's time FFXIV is viewed with a more critical eye because there are things that other MMO's are doing better.

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Yep, I took a break from FF, and I am still weeks behind in gear. I can't even really gear up my RDM or tank, because I still need to finish up my tomestone set for WHM. I think FF has been able to get away with a lot for so long, because of there being no real competitors other than WoW, and it was generally doing things pretty well for a little while there, but if content remains on this same path, and even the patches have gotten slower, people will start looking elsewhere regardless. They will take that " go play something else", or "this game isn't for you" to heart, and just not come back.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Look at healers. Look how long it took them to fix dark knight, something apparently they weren’t aware about whatsoever. So i would rather see people repeat things and keep it up so the devs can see it than let it be ignored yet again like so many other issues.

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This is something that grinds my gears! I know devs won‘t know about every little complain, but there have been some serious outcries from the community that were met with silence. And once people were seriously fed up with it devs acted all surprise. Either many complaints get ignored or there is some serious communication problem.
I already see the devs act surprised once the healer situation gains enough traction.

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

I already see the devs act surprised once the healer situation gains enough traction.

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Feigned surprise. There have been questions about the state of healers since SB. The ones that don't get ignored get round about non-answers and the "go play Ultimate" response which has become so infamous.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yep, I took a break from FF, and I am still weeks behind in gear. I can't even really gear up my RDM or tank, because I still need to finish up my tomestone set for WHM. I think FF has been able to get away with a lot for so long, because of there being no real competitors other than WoW, and it was generally doing things pretty well for a little while there, but if content remains on this same path, and even the patches have gotten slower, people will start looking elsewhere regardless. They will take that " go play something else", or "this game isn't for you" to heart, and just not come back.

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Yeah, I'd definitely consider there to be some genuine competition right now. I've been spending more of my gaming time on ESO and Lost Ark. There's also some upcoming MMO's that have piqued my curiosity.

Truth be told, I'd rather just pick one MMO to play and stick with that but FFXIV has been making all sorts of odd decisions lately. The biggest red flags for me are that the 'new story' looks to be more of the same thing and that all of the new expansion features have yet to be implemented.

Saying FF14 never had competition is backwards. It never truly was the competition until recently. That "competition" is frankly only going to have a negative influence on the game from here on if the devs actually take it seriously.

FF14 gets away with a lot because that's just how the devs are, and the overwhelming majority of the playerbase just doesn't care.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Yeah, I'd definitely consider there to be some genuine competition right now. I've been spending more of my gaming time on ESO and Lost Ark. There's also some upcoming MMO's that have piqued my curiosity.

Truth be told, I'd rather just pick one MMO to play and stick with that but FFXIV has been making all sorts of odd decisions lately. The biggest red flags for me are that the 'new story' looks to be more of the same thing and that all of the new expansion features have yet to be implemented.

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Honestly I'm really interested in what they're gonna do with the story now, and not in a good way. At the end of EW it seemed like a new tale was gonna start, Emet hinting at several places we could visit for a new journey as an adventurer. But then when 6.1 dropped we got a 75% Drowned City of Skalla plot and we're back with nearly all the Scions again. Furthermore, it seems we're now gonna focus heavily on The Void, and it would honestly not surprise me if we end up saving that shard in an afternoon.

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Originally Posted by Kisshu

Honestly I'm really interested in what they're gonna do with the story now, and not in a good way. At the end of EW it seemed like a new tale was gonna start, Emet hinting at several places we could visit for a new journey as an adventurer. But then when 6.1 dropped we got a 75% Drowned City of Skalla plot and we're back with nearly all the Scions again. Furthermore, it seems we're now gonna focus heavily on The Void, and it would honestly not surprise me if we end up saving that shard in an afternoon.

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It took them 2 seconds to try to get us to be on board with going to another shard again. Let the Void be a mystery for a while longer!! We're already breaking down too much of the mythos!! Let us just explore some Allagan ruins and uncover some unknown history of Eorzea..

6.1 MSQ spoilers

Not to mention I feel like there's even more re-treaded ground by using yet another recognizable FF figure as an antagonist. Instead of Elidibus as Amano's Warrior of Light, it's Golbez instead. As if the FF4 parallels weren't obvious enough, apparently.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Yeah, I'd definitely consider there to be some genuine competition right now. I've been spending more of my gaming time on ESO and Lost Ark. There's also some upcoming MMO's that have piqued my curiosity.

Truth be told, I'd rather just pick one MMO to play and stick with that but FFXIV has been making all sorts of odd decisions lately. The biggest red flags for me are that the 'new story' looks to be more of the same thing and that all of the new expansion features have yet to be implemented.

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Yep, I have over 1k (granted a lot afk) hours in Lost Ark, over 1400 Ilvl on my sorceress. So I've been spending a lot of time in that. If I had things I really wanted to do in FF I'd be playing it more. Like, I've said before, burn out wasn't the reason I took a break. There just wasn't anything interesting for me to do. I think even Shadowbringers held my attention longer.

I just want things to do in the game, and more things to strive for. The reward structure in FF is really lacking, in my opinion.There isn't really any lasting content, other than maybe CC currently, that keeps you playing, and it's taking so long for them to release even little things like Island Sanctuary.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yep, I have over 1k (granted a lot afk) hours in Lost Ark, over 1400 Ilvl on my sorceress. So I've been spending a lot of time in that. If I had things I really wanted to do in FF I'd be playing it more. Like, I've said before, burn out wasn't the reason I took a break. There just wasn't anything interesting for me to do. I think even Shadowbringers held my attention longer.

I just want things to do in the game, and more things to strive for. The reward structure in FF is really lacking, in my opinion.There isn't really any lasting content, other than maybe CC currently, that keeps you playing, and it's taking so long for them to release even little things like Island Sanctuary.

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I think this is sadly becomes more obvious after SHB being very lacking due to covid. Now we get EW and it feels familiar in a bad way.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yep, I have over 1k (granted a lot afk) hours in Lost Ark, over 1400 Ilvl on my sorceress. So I've been spending a lot of time in that. If I had things I really wanted to do in FF I'd be playing it more. Like, I've said before, burn out wasn't the reason I took a break. There just wasn't anything interesting for me to do. I think even Shadowbringers held my attention longer.

I just want things to do in the game, and more things to strive for. The reward structure in FF is really lacking, in my opinion.There isn't really any lasting content, other than maybe CC currently, that keeps you playing, and it's taking so long for them to release even little things like Island Sanctuary.

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Been playing a lot of spearmaster. It feels good to be rewarded for mastering a class.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

6.1 MSQ spoilers

Not to mention I feel like there's even more re-treaded ground by using yet another recognizable FF figure as an antagonist. Instead of Elidibus as Amano's Warrior of Light, it's Golbez instead. As if the FF4 parallels weren't obvious enough, apparently.

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I'm an idiot then. I assumed it was the actual (Not omega made) Exdeath since he was tied to the concept of the void in V and XIV. I will legit stop playing if they just make every villain in the FF main series the bad guy in each shard (I liked the FFVIII nods in Eden but now it is making me nervous considering that came after the Omega fights where they reused dissida models.).

That said, say what you will about XI but that game had SOUL and half of me wants to take a XIV break and check out the new XI story but then that would be giving money to SE. ESO is pretty fun though I can see where the game wants you to play with a group. If anyone plays that game can you get a companion in game or do you have to buy one of the DLCs to get access to them?

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Originally Posted by Kisshu

Honestly I'm really interested in what they're gonna do with the story now, and not in a good way. At the end of EW it seemed like a new tale was gonna start, Emet hinting at several places we could visit for a new journey as an adventurer. But then when 6.1 dropped we got a 75% Drowned City of Skalla plot and we're back with nearly all the Scions again. Furthermore, it seems we're now gonna focus heavily on The Void, and it would honestly not surprise me if we end up saving that shard in an afternoon.

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Yeah, I was hoping that being an adventurer again would lead to actual adventure instead of...conveniently having everything align with finding new ways to help the Scions. If Y'shtola cared so much about Runar, she should have just stayed behind on the First. It's not like she contributed much during Endwalker. I also dislike the idea of fixing the Void. What happened to the supposed need to 'move on'? Which, mysteriously, only seems to ever apply to the antagonists - no matter how sympathetic their plight may be.