A consern about space efficieny since stormblood is not getting enough space increase

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

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Funny how you drive the thread off topic while ignoring counter points in why you do not have issues with inventory. I guess it only proves the point true, just because you have something at 70 does not give you the right to quote other's inventory problems with crafting as hording. With that said, your post has been reported.

A glamour log would fix soooooo much here...

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

If they fix the inventory problems and offer more space for free, I wouldn't need those extra retainers and that's lost revenue for the company, and I bet I'm far from the only one there. If they tried that their shareholders would have them fired on the spot. But let's say they did it and doubled the sub fee for everyone, that could work, but then people would complain about "I don't need all this extra space, why should I have to pay extra for my sub?"

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We do not need players making this excuse for SE. It only hurts us.

They do not need to double the stupid sub. They need to do what every other AAA MMO does and NOT RENT INVENTORY SPACE. Even in free-to-play games, where the cash shop is their lifeblood, do you not see this!

Not fixing the inventory issue - especially as it relates to glamour - is a HUGE turn off for me and other players. The likelihood of me being subbed in the future drops with every new outfit they release.

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Originally Posted by Princess_Momoka

Willing? no, they pay for it because they(we/me) HAVE TO to be functional in the game. People are approaching more and more to that line of simply quitting because of lack of room for stuff.

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I was more referring to that they're willing to pay for it so as to be functional. However, if what you say is true and people are getting to the point of saying "Stuff it, not bothering anymore" and quitting, then that pendulum swing could change matters. Unfortunately, given how SE is, I think that it'll take a mass exodus of people who purchased additional retainers to quit for them to change their ways, if even that would be enough. Instead I worry that SE would just have the game shut down instead if that happened. I would love better space efficiency myself, but I don't believe SE are going to do it, because of the shareholders.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

We do not need players making this excuse for SE. It only hurts us.

They do not need to double the stupid sub. They need to do what every other AAA MMO does and NOT RENT INVENTORY SPACE. Even in free-to-play games, where the cash shop is their lifeblood, do you not see this!

Not fixing the inventory issue - especially as it relates to glamour - is a HUGE turn off for me and other players. The likelihood of me being subbed in the future drops with every new outfit they release.

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I am not trying to excuse SE. In fact I am in agreement with you that is is bad. But let's be fair here, the shareholders will not let SE lose that flow of income now that it has been established, without some way to make up the cost. Other AAA MMOs don't count as far as the shareholders are concerned. Just their profits.

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Originally Posted by Princess_Momoka

Funny how you drive the thread off topic while ignoring counter points in why you do not have issues with inventory. I guess it only proves the point true, just because you have something at 70 does not give you the right to quote other's inventory problems with crafting as hording. With that, your post has been reported.

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Like I said before, which you promptly said was not how crafters do things, is that I gather mats when I need them, as do all of my crafting friends. But I guess we don't know what we are talking about since we don't agree with you.

Said friend already has all his crafters at 70, but i guess that doesnt matter since hes not a hardcore crafter according to you.

Also, reporting me for asking if you are using another alt, when you already use 2 (3?) others to bump your own threads to look like other people are agreeing with you is funny. You are upset about having to pay more for retainers, so instead, you give them active sub counts.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

I was more referring to that they're willing to pay for it so as to be functional. However, if what you say is true and people are getting to the point of saying "Stuff it, not bothering anymore" and quitting, then that pendulum swing could change matters. Unfortunately, given how SE is, I think that it'll take a mass exodus of people who purchased additional retainers to quit for them to change their ways, if even that would be enough. Instead I worry that SE would just have the game shut down instead if that happened. I would love better space efficiency myself, but I don't believe SE are going to do it, because of the shareholders.


I am not trying to excuse SE. In fact I am in agreement with you that is is bad. But let's be fair here, the shareholders will not let SE lose that flow of income now that it has been established, without some way to make up the cost. Other AAA MMOs don't count as far as the shareholders are concerned. Just their profits.

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Kind of self defeating don't you think? Not fixing this means no more profits, and if you said was true may lead the game shutting down if enough quit over this? Very sad.

What inventory space issues? I admit I have 5 retainers but I horde all my gathered materials to keep on hand of all my crafting and I still am not in dire straights.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

I am not trying to excuse SE. In fact I am in agreement with you that is is bad. But let's be fair here, the shareholders will not let SE lose that flow of income now that it has been established, without some way to make up the cost. Other AAA MMOs don't count as far as the shareholders are concerned. Just their profits.

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No, you may agree with me, but posts like yours are entirely unhelpful because they do provide excuses for SE. We need to be wholly unified. And yes, ideally you really should drop your extra retainers, but at least being unified in forum voice would help.

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Originally Posted by Maku

What inventory space issues? I admit I have 5 retainers but I horde all my gathered materials to keep on hand of all my crafting and I still am not in dire straights.

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Pays for extra retainers... claims there's no inventory space issue....

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Pays for extra retainers... claims there's no inventory space issue....

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Mainly have the extra retainers for the Market Board sale spaces, but there isn't an issue with storage space because they gave you an option of having more with more retainers. Sure it is pay for it but it is still the option they gave you. Like it and deal with it or quit.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

No, you may agree with me, but posts like yours are entirely unhelpful because they do provide excuses for SE. We need to be wholly unified. And yes, ideally you really should drop your extra retainers, but at least being unified in forum voice would help.



Pays for extra retainers... claims there's no inventory space issue....

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+no craft at 60, let alone 70. It shows no crafting took place during 3.4, those items required a lot of different things from different time periods. SB is a bit better and I do see the need to use low level stuff to help the economy move more but such ideas conflict with a situation where there is a huge problem with having enough inventory space. I am sure the person you quoting does not glam much as well.

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Originally Posted by Maku

Mainly have the extra retainers for the Market Board sale spaces, but there isn't an issue with storage space because they gave you an option of having more with more retainers. Sure it is pay for it but it is still the option they gave you. Like it and deal with it or quit.

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You are talking to people that take crafting and glam seriously and have space problems with 8 retainers who regularly NPC items that sell for 5k or less on the market boards, due to room issues. (I think that would be a lot of lost gil to some to do that regularly)

I read the whole thread, the complaints of not having enough space come from people that do a lot in the game and take it seriously, like having glams for each job, I believe one poster said they knew someone who had full relics and all jobs had 260+ ilevel due to mixing different 260/265/270 gear so each job had its own glam? (something like that, I forgot exactly what they had, but was impressive to me, all the alex gear, and so on) To be be able to glam like that, it strains your retainer, since not everything that should be stored in the armoire is able to, like event items or mog station items. In the event you can store something there but use a rare dye on it, like dyes that cost 200-500k or 1 dollar on mog station rare, you really expect people to put that in a storage that wipes that away? Also to a person that did glam like that and had all jobs at 60, now leveling in SB, you are constantly sealing gear and regaining gear as you level the different jobs because you simply do not have space to hold all that gear when you go to level a different job that used gear you used 2 jobs ago. I guess you can blame, why not level all healers first, then other roles that have shared gear but then you are forcing a play style on someone. That person may want to play with different jobs because they like them more and enjoy something more.

At the end of the day I do not think one should be trying to label people as horders and stop a needed game change just because they do not play the game and progress as much as others do.

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Originally Posted by Princess_Momoka

+no craft at 60, let alone 70. It shows no crafting took place during 3.4, those items required a lot of different things from different time periods. SB is a bit better and I do see the need to use low level stuff to help the economy move more but such ideas conflict with a situation where there is a huge problem with having enough inventory space. I am sure the person you quoting does not glam much as well.

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You know why I'm so cynical about anything happening that would directly reduce their profits from the extra retainers? I was training to be a software developer, was asked why I wanted to be a software dev. I said to help people, improve their lives, etc. I was told that was the wrong answer and it was too altruistic and that the main reason I should be a software developer was for profit. I got told I was doing it wrong for wanting to put people first. SE makes the sort of money that the companies I'd have been working for (since I was training through a training & recruitment agency) also make, when I was told that approach was wrong. Again, I agree, but I think even if everyone unified together, it wouldn't happen. I have 4 retainers myself and do struggle with inventory, but I refuse to get any more due to financial reasons. I'd love to see this happen, but after being flat out told I was wrong for wanting to put people before profit, you can understand why I can't see the shareholders letting this happen.

EDIT: Now that being said, if a convincing argument could be put forward about how this would generate the company even more profit, we could have a pretty good chance at making this work.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

I was training to be a software developer, was asked why I wanted to be a software dev. I said to help people, improve their lives, etc. I was told that was the wrong answer and it was too altruistic and that the main reason I should be a software developer was for profit. I got told I was doing it wrong for wanting to put people first.

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I'm sorry you got some bad advice from somebody too cynical to be giving out advice to anyone. Your original answer was far superior to the one you were told. Internal motivation is far more effective than external reward at producing success. Those who are just after profit to the exclusion of all else rarely get any. The most successful people tend to be those who care deeply about what they're doing.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

I'm sorry you got some bad advice from somebody too cynical to be giving out advice to anyone. Your original answer was far superior to the one you were told. Internal motivation is far more effective than external reward at producing success. Those who are just after profit to the exclusion of all else rarely get any. The most successful people tend to be those who care deeply about what they're doing.

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I do agree but sadly most people aim for the short run and not the long run, so it is likely Paladinleeds has a point. It is very sad for me to hear things likely work that way in the mass. Yoshi-p seems like a people person while im sure he gets pressure from stockholders.

Speaking of "not enough"... what is with this darn character limit?

But back on topic...

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Originally Posted by Princess_Momoka

I do agree but sadly most people aim for the short run and not the long run, so it is likely Paladinleeds has a point. It is very sad for me to hear things likely work that way in the mass. Yoshi-p seems like a people person while im sure he gets pressure from stockholders.

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Yeah, I agree. I mean I'm sure if it were up to Yoshi-P we'd have extra inventory being added as quickly as possible to alleviate this, but it's those pesky shareholders. As you said, people generally aim for the short run and not the long run, especially shareholders. And I do apologise for upsetting you. That being said, you do have my full backing, but I doubt that'll be enough unfortunately. I tend to be quite... direct in how I phrase things (due to how I process them), and I know I don't always say what people want to hear. And yeah, I will readily admit I don't know first hand the problems surrounding crafters and inventory space, but I've read that it's bad, so I will support them, but at the same time I felt I needed to say my piece given my experiences as a software dev, and what I think is likely going to be the case. Trust me when I say I had to restrain myself from giving that person what for when they told me what they did though. Holding my tongue was NOT easy!

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

I'm sorry you got some bad advice from somebody too cynical to be giving out advice to anyone. Your original answer was far superior to the one you were told. Internal motivation is far more effective than external reward at producing success. Those who are just after profit to the exclusion of all else rarely get any. The most successful people tend to be those who care deeply about what they're doing.

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Veering myself off-topic again here, but I'll give this one an answer. I am actually still interested in becoming a software developer, but planning to do some personal projects instead, which can be released under the original reasoning for me wanting to be a software developer. Help build some experience, and help people along the way. I guess you could say everyone's a winner there. In accordance with the post from Momoka though, I think the developers and producers tend to be quite long run focused, about making it the very best they can, but shareholders focus on the short run, which is max profit in min time.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Speaking of "not enough"... what is with this darn character limit?

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Tell me about it. That and the post limit are anachronisms that can go away.

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Yeah, I agree. I mean I'm sure if it were up to Yoshi-P we'd have extra inventory being added as quickly as possible to alleviate this, but it's those pesky shareholders.

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That's part of it. The change will impact a revenue stream, so it's unpopular at the top. There is another insidious part of it...inertia. When trying to put a fix in for a problem (housing, glamour), sometimes the "bailing wire and duct tape" approach gets used and gets really hard to untangle later. I think we're seeing both here.

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Originally Posted by Princess_Momoka

How are they "working on a solution" when all they do is keep adding to the problem?? (like the 3 sands from the same node example I gave, or the new delta currencies and the Regional Folklore tokens. I want to know why they keep ADDING to the problem and not fixing it.

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How? I clearly have no idea, I don't work for SE. I'm merely paraphrasing one of Yoshi's answers from the last live letter.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

I mean I'm sure if it were up to Yoshi-P we'd have extra inventory being added as quickly as possible to alleviate this, but it's those pesky shareholders.

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Honestly, we don't really have any evidence of this. Even when confronted directly on the issue, dev responses have consistently indicated that they simply don't understand the requests being made. Look at the housing system, the glamour system, the dye system, the fact that they continue to implement currencies that take up inventory space... And then when pressed, their "fixes" never actually address the real problem, or they handwave it as no big deal.

I'm not so sure Yoshi himself considers these things priority, "shareholders" or not.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Yeah, I agree. I mean I'm sure if it were up to Yoshi-P we'd have extra inventory being added as quickly as possible to alleviate this, but it's those pesky shareholders.

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I laughed :)

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I'm not so sure Yoshi himself considers these things priority, "shareholders" or not.

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At least we know he finally seems to understand that glamour is a priority for players. I'm extrapolating from his exasperated "I know" in the last live letter.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

But people are willing to pay for it (and yes I'm part of the problem too). If they fix the inventory problems and offer more space for free, I wouldn't need those extra retainers and that's lost revenue for the company, and I bet I'm far from the only one there. If they tried that their shareholders would have them fired on the spot. But let's say they did it and doubled the sub fee for everyone, that could work, but then people would complain about "I don't need all this extra space, why should I have to pay extra for my sub?" - because yes, if SE takes out the renting option for retainers, expect the sub fee to go up for everyone to account for the lost revenue. SE is a business. It has one purpose. Make as much profit as possible.

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This argument is not particularly good. It ignores several other key issues. One being that some of us will not actually pay for additional retainers, we will simply wait for them to fix it or leave when we can't participate in the game to our satisfaction because of the issue. That's lost revenue. We don't buy things we might want from the cash shop because we have nowhere to put them. That's lost revenue. Some people won't buy things from the cash shop on principle because of the subscription, and the storage problem has made the game unplayable to a certain extent for them, more subs lost, more lost revenue. Shareholders aren't going to care if they fix storage if it makes the cash shop more viable, if they are even making enough from additional retainers to make a dent in the bottom line of this game's ledger.

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Originally Posted by Lycieus

At least we know he finally seems to understand that glamour is a priority for players. I'm extrapolating from his exasperated "I know" in the last live letter.

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Honestly, it's reached a point where I do think people have to keep pestering, because I somewhat agree with Naunet. The devs consistently underestimate how well received QoL changes are. What was one of the most hyped features in Heavensward? Cooldown resets upon death. I guarantee if a poll went out between the devs developing Blitzball or whatever other "existing new thing!" or giving us a proper glamour log and/or the ability to glamour multiple sets on a single piece of gears. The overwhelming majority would pick the latter. For some reason, the devs fail to realize that.

Don't think we will ever get a poll because if we ever get one, the player base will demand for more polls to prove interest for other changes/upgrades which SE will then be "forced" to commit to.

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Originally Posted by SokiYagami

Don't think we will ever get a poll because if we ever get one, the player base will demand for more polls to prove interest for other changes/upgrades which SE will then be "forced" to commit to.

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That is not really the point of the post though, it is just explaining how the development team is out of touch with the audience.

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Originally Posted by Princess_Momoka

That is not really the point of the post though, it is just explaining how the development team is out of touch with the audience.

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I understand, but it would inevitable lead to that situation. Things that has been the hot topic of the week on the forums will be demanded to have a poll to gather players feedback and unlike the forums, the data sample gathered should be theoretically large enough that SE will be shoehorned into implementing "the will of the player base" or risk bad PR image for ignoring them. At least with the forums one can argue there's only a "small vocal minority" who actually desire said changes/upgrades and SE will have a larger degree of freedom to implement changes if they deem necessary. Of course that's assuming the poll is open and honest in the first place.

Just to prevent any misunderstanding as I haven't been posting in this thread for some time, I still agree with OP in regards with the space issue. Just saying that a large scale in-game poll isn't quite likely because of reason stated above.

I'm not sure why you're arguing against a poll, when the person you were quoting wasn't suggesting SE actually do a poll... it was a hypothetical situation they used to make a point about SE's priorities being out of line with the priorities of a huge chunk of the playerbase...

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I'm not sure why you're arguing against a poll, when the person you were quoting wasn't suggesting SE actually do a poll... it was a hypothetical situation they used to make a point about SE's priorities being out of line with the priorities of a huge chunk of the playerbase...

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I tried to explain that too

So how many likes does this thread need before SE actually makes a comment?

Just read that again, my bad. Guess I should had avoided posting before my mind's working straight. Live letter's coming in less than two hours, would be nice if we can hear anything regarding this issue however unlikely it might be.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Honestly, it's reached a point where I do think people have to keep pestering, because I somewhat agree with Naunet. The devs consistently underestimate how well received QoL changes are. What was one of the most hyped features in Heavensward? Cooldown resets upon death. I guarantee if a poll went out between the devs developing Blitzball or whatever other "existing new thing!" or giving us a proper glamour log and/or the ability to glamour multiple sets on a single piece of gears. The overwhelming majority would pick the latter. For some reason, the devs fail to realize that.

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I'm by no means suggesting the pressure on SE should be eased. They haven't committed to anything. I was merely being generous.

What annoys me the most is the opinion changes from interview to interview. In one they say its not possible (yeah right), then they suddenly say its possible but not high on their list and then, when people still like it because its a big deal for us, they suddenly say that its not possible in this and that way..(if its not possible if you can get to it everywhere, then stick it somewhere where people have to go to >_>) Its like suddenly you are talking to a twin that has a complete different opinion of this. As a customer I do ask myself if they even know what we want..we dont want something overly complicated (like the LoV thing..) we simply want a "fishing log" for glamour where we can register our stuff and glamour it again if necessary. You know, something like a list. (Have it or have it not) It can even be automated. Like as soon as you get the item you will have activated in the log.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4303576

Remove items then like explained in the op and my example with the 3 sand items from the steppes 70 node. Put currencies in a currency tab. How come currency bloat is never bought up in these live letters? Asking questions to make better use of space, letting us have better storage options? Or how the Op talked about removing item management from retainers completely?

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"The number of items available has increased in Patch 4.0. We’re making sure that important data isn’t lost, and also so that it can’t be exploited, so it’s difficult to just simply add more slots. "

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Remove item storage from retainers and give us a bank if it can't be done of giving retainers more slots. How come the Dev team does not understand they have so much mog station glams and other glams that can't be stored that we do not have enough space to function? Also what about them understanding what we mean by glam log? Some kind of bait tab? The fact that you need to hold on so many items to craft like going though 5 stacks like it was nothing because of the 4 items going into a nugget, to go into an ingot, only to have that ingot to go into another plus 4 more items? Why set up crafting to go though so many items when there is space issues?

This game is not worth more then 20 dollars a month, it is crazy for them to expect people to pay so much for extra space. I really think we should at least got 3rd free retainer in HW then another in SB, so we should be at 4 free retainers now. The cost is too high for space for a game clearly lacking it, even with 8 retainers.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4303843

Does anyone want a glamor history? this is not a fix.

What exactly do they even mean with glamour history? Is this their description of a glamour book or is this simply some way to look at past glamour items? (Which does not help at all)

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Originally Posted by Alleo

What exactly do they even mean with glamour history? Is this their description of a glamour book or is this simply some way to look at past glamour items? (Which does not help at all)

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I was wondering this too.

If they structure a glamour history like the crafting history, it would get added to a recent glamour history where you would possibly be able to select that previously used glamour. This would still probably require us to have the items in our bags still and literally solves nothing.

They need an actual glamour log and seem to be so against putting one in; it's very irksome.

I still thinking being able to transfer stuff to alts is the solution to all of this. Mailing stuff to alts, while clunky, would be a start. Shared storage that alts can access would be great. Why not have an option to have a retainer be shared between characters on the same server? They keep saying server load is an issue. My main and my alt will never be logged in at the same time. It gives me more storage without increasing the number of slots used at a single time.

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Originally Posted by Brill_

I still thinking being able to transfer stuff to alts is the solution to all of this. Mailing stuff to alts, while clunky, would be a start. Shared storage that alts can access would be great. Why not have an option to have a retainer be shared between characters on the same server? They keep saying server load is an issue. My main and my alt will never be logged in at the same time. It gives me more storage without increasing the number of slots used at a single time.

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While mailing things to alts and having an additional account bank would be nice, it would not solve several of the biggest burdens on inventory/retainer space. Honestly for me, crafting mats take up very little space. It's mostly gear stored for glamour, special decor, and all of SE's random currencies and quest items.

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Yoshida: However, we’re planning to touch on glamour in the future, and we’re planning functions such as accessing glamour history.

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I certainly hope they "touch" the glamour/inventory issue in more ways than just a "recent history" feature. Not that I would be opposed to having a recent glamour history list. I would just rather that be only a small small part of the overall solution, rather than the only solution. I certainly hope that's not the only thing they have planned, but rather they only thing they've mentioned so far.

I thought it was pretty telling when he said that there was a huge difference between people who buy extra retainers and those who don't. Does that mean they think people who don't buy extra retainers have no need for better storage options? If so, they are still missing the fundamental issue that storage and personal inventory are and should be 2 different things.

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Originally Posted by savageink

I thought it was pretty telling when he said that there was a huge difference between people who buy extra retainers and those who don't. Does that mean they think people who don't buy extra retainers have no need for better storage options? If so, they are still missing the fundamental issue that storage and personal inventory are and should be 2 different things.

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They are using data that thinks them look good when in reality it makes them look greedy. Of course not many people have 8 retainers full of stuff, it's prohibitively expensive. The entire point is disingenuous.

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Originally Posted by Lycieus

They are using data that thinks them look good when in reality it makes them look greedy. Of course not many people have 8 retainers full of stuff, it's prohibitively expensive. The entire point is disingenuous.

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Yeah. I don't rent (let's use the proper word!) ANY extra retainers, not because I don't need them, but because I find the concept abhorrent in a subscription-based MMO. Heck, I wouldn't partake of it in a free-to-play MMO.

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Originally Posted by savageink

I thought it was pretty telling when he said that there was a huge difference between people who buy extra retainers and those who don't. Does that mean they think people who don't buy extra retainers have no need for better storage options? If so, they are still missing the fundamental issue that storage and personal inventory are and should be 2 different things.

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That was my exact thought when reading that from the live letter. Are they greedy or out of touch? Seems that they care more about the money the minority use on PAID Retainers more than everyone else. They have even stated that increasing retainer space was much easier than character's and they could solve SO much using retainers. 1. Increase retainer space instead of character inventory. 2. Allow crafting while retainer inventories are open. Boom! Just solved a big chunk of glamour and crafting related inventory issues. Not all, but this is significant low hanging fruit.