So... that spiderman shirt... (new job tease)

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

I wonder... will we ever get Jobs only for females?!
I remember back in Ivalice we had such jobs...

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For many people, including me, this is one of the most loathsome concepts an MMO can introduce.

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

I wonder... will we ever get Jobs only for females?!
I remember back in Ivalice we had such jobs...

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Cannot agree with DBelmont more. Female player-characters already have a significant deal of favoritism with having far more outfits gender-locked to them, with far fewer outfits gender-locked to males. In general their models have more attention to them while their customization options tend to be a bit more favored as well. Female Miqo'te have the bust slider, but male Miqo'te do not have the muscle slider, for example.

But I'd be against a class even if it was gender-locked to males. Gender-locking classes is just a terrible idea in an MMO.

As for a female only job . . . just no. That wouldn't work as it would just create inequality and anger in anyone who plays a male.

And to everyone in this thread who is being disrespectful and rude to those people who are just having fun speculating - seriously, get over yourself. People have the right to enter a thread whose sole purpose is to speculate on the Spider-Man shirt Yoshida was wearing, and if you don't like the speculations, then don't come back to this thread. It's as simple as that. Being brash or condescending to people is not going to get them to stop speculating, and you are just making yourself look like a villain (normally I would have chosen a much harsher word, but I'm not looking to get banned).

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Originally Posted by Vexander

But I'd be against a class even if it was gender-locked to males. Gender-locking classes is just a terrible idea in an MMO.

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In my opinion, the best way to deal with classes is to give them an involving theme and mechanics and make it adaptable to many character creation options.

If you lock classes to specific races or genders, you simplify the concept in a bad way. One example where FFXIV is successful: Normally, WAR could have been considered Roe male locked. That would make it the generic berserker/barbarian concept of western rpgs. Instead, by making that theme applicable to all genders and races, it becomes a lot more interesting. It could be an unaturally strong Lala or a rockstar-like Hyur or Elezen. It can still be that Roe buff dude though.

In our current instance, making Dancer female only, it would immediately turn into the obscene waifu archetype.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

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1. If I remember well Yoshi stated that we're not getting the same number of Jobs as HW, which means 3. Só we can get 2 or 4, even though I believe more in 2.

2: It can be related because DNC is a kind of acrobat and has a flexible body like Spiderman. Also the main weapon can be a Whip or a kind of string/fabric that comes from a bracer. Só though we DNC lovers are dying to get it, we're not doing so Just because of will, we are looking for things to base our believes.

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Originally Posted by DBelmont

If you lock classes to specific races or genders, you simplify the concept in a bad way.

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Can't agree with this more. I think it was one of World of Warcraft's greater failings. That, and the archaic two-faction system. And the general downward spiral of the lore as the Heads of Development hit Midlife Crisis and turned the story from a compelling and rich novel narrative to comic book super heroes. A lot of other things too, actually.

Either way, FFXIV does it right. I'd be very upset if a class was race/gender locked, without EXCEPTIONAL LORE explaining in thorough detail WHY, and even then, still a terrible idea. Some classes are inherently going to play better than others.

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Originally Posted by Blazinhart

1. If I remember well Yoshi stated that we're not getting the same number of Jobs as HW, which means 3. Só we can get 2 or 4, even though I believe more in 2.

2: It can be related because DNC is a kind of acrobat and has a flexible body like Spiderman. Also the main weapon can be a Whip or a kind of string/fabric that comes from a bracer. Só though we DNC lovers are dying to get it, we're not doing so Just because of will, we are looking for things to base our believes.

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We got 4 jobs in a very short time frame - ROG/NIN, DRK/MCH/AST. We are only getting 2 new ones for Stormblood.

Again, twisting fact to fit a non-existent narrative, and yes you are doing it out of sheer desire. As I said, ALL the teased jobs were on the nose. Minimal effort required to figure it out. AKA Occam's Razor. Spider man - Man bitten, given powers. Along with the constant push of the Red and blue theme, he's all but slapping us about the face with it. Though, again.. if it quacks like a duck.. must be dancer am I right?

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

I wonder... will we ever get Jobs only for females?!
I remember back in Ivalice we had such jobs...

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This idea needs to die in a fire.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

Spider man - Man bitten, given powers. Along with the constant push of the Red and blue theme, he's all but slapping us about the face with it.

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I want to agree, but he also said "spider-webber". That kinda focuses more into the web/string aspect of the job rather than the "how he got powers".

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

I wonder... will we ever get Jobs only for females?!
I remember back in Ivalice we had such jobs...

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Just no. Get that idea of yours and throw it in a fire and watch it burn.

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Originally Posted by DBelmont

I want to agree, but he also said "spider-webber". That kinda focuses more into the web/string aspect of the job rather than the "how he got powers".

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But spiderman never takes control over his opponents with his web. He either immobilizes them, traps them, cause serious damage when using it as a projectile, or flings his opponent around. He never actually takes control over their limbs and uses them to attack others, like how puppetmasters do.

simply put, Spiderman isn't a puppetmaster himself, so I don't get how spiderman can actually allude to puppetmaster.

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Originally Posted by RaijinSupreme

But spiderman never takes control over his opponents with his web. He either immobilizes them, traps them, cause serious damage when using it as a projectile, or flings his opponent around. He never actually takes control over their limbs and uses them to attack others, like how puppetmasters do.

simply put, Spiderman isn't a puppetmaster himself, so I don't get how spiderman can actually allude to puppetmaster.

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FFXI Puppetmaster by itself does not allude to Spiderman directly, I know. However, remember AST; it was supposed to be a Time Mage that got a Corsair twist with the card mechanic. With that being said, we could always get Puppetmaster elements on top of another candidate job and get a weird mix - which in my opinion, sucks.

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

I wonder... will we ever get Jobs only for females?!
I remember back in Ivalice we had such jobs...

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So long as males get a job exclusive to them as well, I wouldn't mind.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

Where you are quite wrong is that there are things we "DO" know, and it seems that quite a few people have absolutely no idea what deductive reasoning skills are. You cannot twist facts to support a narrative that isn't there. Speculation isn't a blanket statement for: "I want this! So be damned the logic and facts!"

1: After Heavenward released Yoshi and team said they were never going to do 3-4 job releases that close together ever again, and at most, we'd get 2 at a time going forward. ROG/NIN with 2.4, DRK/MCH/AST with 3.0. So, with that "FACT" we know that we can only expect 2 jobs for this expansion. Not 3 or even 4.

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Aaaannnd no !
The problem was the release of Rogue/Ninja (class + job, ouch) several month before the 3 others jobs. Because of the adjustement to do for Ninja after, I'am sure this delayed the work for the three others and put too much work for less time than planned.
+ The event Moonfire Faire 2016 teased the number of jobs we will get for 4.0 (Yoshida said it himself)
There is no clue except the number of Posing Rangers which is 3 !
And if it's not three jobs for 4.0, it could be two for 4.0 and one for 4.1-4.2...
Anyways, I'am confident for 3 jobs for Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

Anyways, I'am confident for 3 jobs for Stormblood.

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As far as we know, they attempted to tweet that RDM is going to be one of the 2 new jobs for Stormblood and ended up removing that tweet. That could mean 2 things:

1) It was wrong and they didn't want to tweet false information
2) It was true and they wanted our hype to be more intense due to speculating for more than 2 jobs

If case 1 is true, we will simply get 3 or more jobs. If 2 is the case, then they are aware that 2 jobs is a negative scenario and want to make it less of a marketing point.

If we indeed get only 2 jobs, I expect them to make truly in-depth changes to existing jobs instead.

About that tweet we may get a third class way into the expansion thats why it got removed.
And the Spiderman shirt i think its gonna be Blue Mage, it can be Samurai because of Sam Raimi but the story bitten by a spider is much simpler.
Blue Mage tank if a Third class comes or dps blunt dmg for monk support are my guesses. :D

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Originally Posted by DBelmont

If we indeed get only 2 jobs, I expect them to make truly in-depth changes to existing jobs instead.

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Yes, if there are truly 2 new jobs, I think this is what will happen.

The thing to see is the time player will take in DF for his role to enter in dungeons.
We know, 3 news jobs with 1 by role is the ideal case.
But if there is 1 role missing, it could be a problem.

That's why already, we couldn't have 2 new DPS, it would be insane.
But, 1 tank + 1 dps and adjustments for all others existing jobs, it could work, even if it's less than the same configuration with 1 healer added.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

So long as males get a job exclusive to them as well, I wouldn't mind.

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Bard was male only while dancer was female only (Final Fantasy Tactics)
It was more or less the same, while bard was buffing the group, dancer was debuffing the enemy.
Their strength was in field wide range!

http://i.imgur.com/EO1oR9v.png

When we look at FFTA or FFTA2 they even added race only jobs (viera only, moogle only, bangaa only... and so on)

I still want to know how people think BLU is coming when Yoshida said "No BLU for a loooong time, wont be able to use the DF and I want it to have a profession of monster book if I put the job in" last month o.O

Most I could think of is he could be trolling hardcore but PR would allow him to talk about a job that openly before announcing it?

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

Bard was male only while dancer was female only (Final Fantasy Tactics)
It was more or less the same, while bard was buffing the group, dancer was debuffing the enemy.
Their strength was in field wide range!

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Gender-restricted jobs are a terrible idea. Even if you create one male job for each female job, comparisons between the jobs are inevitable and certain to cause a ton of drama. Not to mention the potential for unfortunate implications or outright raging bias where outdated and/or culture-specific gender stereotypes come into play. It's a toxic mess best avoided.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

Female Miqo'te have the bust slider, but male Miqo'te do not have the muscle slider, for example.

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Just wanted to point out this is a poor example. The bust slider and muscle sliders are not counterparts in the character creator. The muscle slider is present only for races that lack a layer of customization option the others have. Elezen/lalafell have ear customization, miqote have tail customizations, etc. As a result only hyur and roegadyn get muscle sliders (for both male and female).

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

Bard was male only while dancer was female only (Final Fantasy Tactics)
It was more or less the same, while bard was buffing the group, dancer was debuffing the enemy.
Their strength was in field wide range!

http://i.imgur.com/EO1oR9v.png

When we look at FFTA or FFTA2 they even added race only jobs (viera only, moogle only, bangaa only... and so on)

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We will never have gender locked jobs for the same reason we have female Roes & male Miqotes.

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Originally Posted by RaijinSupreme

We will never have gender locked jobs for the same reason we have female Roes & male Miqotes.

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Because burly women and lithe-bodied men aren't a thing?

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Just wanted to point out this is a poor example. The bust slider and muscle sliders are not counterparts in the character creator. The muscle slider is present only for races that lack a layer of customization option the others have. Elezen/lalafell have ear customization, miqote have tail customizations, etc. As a result only hyur and roegadyn get muscle sliders (for both male and female).

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So there is no male-specific customization option. Someone told me the muscle slider was it. Never really toyed around much in character customization, but it seemed to make sense. Women can increase or decrease their bust, guys their muscles. Guess this is just a broader example of how female characters already receive more favoritism than males.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Because burly women and lithe-bodied men aren't a thing?

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what? they are a thing, that's why we have that archetype available in the game.

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Originally Posted by RaijinSupreme

what? they are a thing, that's why we have that archetype available in the game.

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I was more wondering where you were trying to go with that comment; it read to me more as if female Roes and male Miqo'te were being called out as concessions to political correctness.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

I was more wondering where you were trying to go with that comment; it read to me more as if female Roes and male Miqo'te were being called out as concessions to political correctness.

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Then you misunderstood.

In FFXI, where our current races originated from, The burly race (Galka) was an all male race, while the cat people (Mithra) was an all female race.

When they were brought here, the females were added to the burly one, and males were added to the cat people. They didn't want to limit player choice when creating a character, and the gender-locking race thing is an outdated and tired concept anyway.

But that's the same reason why there won't be gender-locking jobs. It limits player choice with an outdated concept.

That's what I meant by "We will never have gender locked jobs for the same reason we have female Roes & male Miqotes."

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Originally Posted by RaijinSupreme

Then you misunderstood.

In FFXI, where our current races originated from, The burly race (Galka) was an all male race, while the cat people (Mithra) was an all female race.

When they were brought here, the females were added to the burly one, and males were added to the cat people. They didn't want to limit player choice when creating a character, and the gender-locking race thing is an outdated and tired concept anyway.

But that's the same reason why there won't be gender-locking jobs. It limits player choice with an outdated concept.

That's what I meant by "We will never have gender locked jobs for the same reason we have female Roes & male Miqotes."

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Not 100% true, they added the male and female for roe/miqo for 2.0, in 1.0 it was the same as XI

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Not 100% true, they added the male and female for roe/miqo for 2.0, in 1.0 it was the same as XI

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Because 1.0 was developed by the same producer, director and other main staffers of ffxi, who probably thought the outdated concept was a good idea, like the other outdated concepts they implemented in the game.

So I guess I have to be politically correct and point out the obvious.

Yoshi-P didn't want to limit player choice when he rebooted the game, the game we're playing now.

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Originally Posted by RaijinSupreme

Then you misunderstood.

In FFXI, where our current races originated from, The burly race (Galka) was an all male race, while the cat people (Mithra) was an all female race.

When they were brought here, the females were added to the burly one, and males were added to the cat people. They didn't want to limit player choice when creating a character, and the gender-locking race thing is an outdated and tired concept anyway.

But that's the same reason why there won't be gender-locking jobs. It limits player choice with an outdated concept.

That's what I meant by "We will never have gender locked jobs for the same reason we have female Roes & male Miqotes."

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I see. Thanks for the background info; I didn't play FFXI, so I was missing that piece of the story. I'm sorry for assuming that you were going to be yet another person making an unsolicited snarky comment about character models.

Yoshida said we get multiple jobs, right? So it is impossible that we get a DoL or a DoH. As far as I know all of those are considered classes. Still, that would be a nice twist. Yoshie-P shut down Blue Mage and Puppet Master earlier, Dancer requires too many jumps in logic and he is very actively denying Samurai. This limits our choices somewhat.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

Where you are quite wrong is that there are things we "DO" know, and it seems that quite a few people have absolutely no idea what deductive reasoning skills are. You cannot twist facts to support a narrative that isn't there. Speculation isn't a blanket statement for: "I want this! So be damned the logic and facts!"

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This thread was still about fun speculation like making comments how spider man once danced and thus its a dancer and so on. It was nothing that serious, yet somehow because someone mentioned dancer it kinda took a turn for the worst.

1: If I remember it correctly this was more along the line of: It was way to stressful to create another new job while we are in a expansion so they wont release a new job like that again. Yoshida also said when showing the shadows of a male and female that this wont mean that we only get two jobs. The deleted tweet said something else but it could have been simply a wrong information thus deleted. We will only know for sure in February and until then it will hurt nobody to still speculate about what ifs.

2: And its also not completely right with Blue Mage. Not only that but in an old interview (like some have pointed out) he talked about Blue Mage being more of a solo job. So if we take old informations for granted than it couldnt be a Blue Mage either. Maybe they felt a little in the mood for some trolling and its something completely different and has nothing to do with the shirt. Who knows?

3. If this was the sixth expansion and we would never have a hint of new job in a trailer I maybe could agree with you on that but this is the teaser for a second expansion. Who can say that they will always follow it that way? I mean we have one main game and one expansion. We can not go there and just say: It will be always that way. (And about material arts: There were enough people pointing out that they do something similar as a dancer in real life.)

And its not our fault and responsibility if someone can not see the difference between a fun speculation and something as confirmed. They would have raged anyway, even if people did not discuss the possibilities because those normally don't need reasons to rage. Why put others down for the simple "it could happen"? Maybe everyone will surprise us and there wont be threads? Maybe there will be a massive amount of why not Samurai/Blue Mage/Beastmaster/... if its not happing?

Either way I dont care what we get, I am just here for some funny speculations.

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Originally Posted by TarynH

It's not so much changing peoples' minds, but narrowing down the speculation. For instance, Yoshida shot down puppetmaster in an interview several months ago. He also kind of shot down the wild speculation of Sam Raimi, by saying Spider-man had more than one director. Then went on to say it related more to Spider-man's story. Well... his story happens to be closer to Blue Mage than Dancer. Peter Parker wasn't an aspiring Michael Flatley. He got bit by a spider and gained its powers. This thread is specifically asking what the Spider-man shirt means. Not what jobs do you think we'll get?

You do realize that even the people saying "not gonna happen" are also speculating? They're merely giving an opposing view as to what they see and hear. They know as much (or as little) as anyone else here; as it pertains to what's coming next.

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The problem is that we wont really have any of the mentioned jobs if we take anything Yoshida says as truth. Like some already said he also kinda shot down Blue because its more a solo job and would not function in its common way in this game, he made the comment about Sam Raimi but its not like he can truly answer the question. He can truly be a master troll if he wants to.

Well speculation is for me more along the way of "might be". If someone says that something is not going to happen even though we still dont know all new jobs, than its not really speculation. IMO its more about trying to say that their word is a fact. And if they know the same as everyone else than why do they try to stop the discussion? Thats what made me a little sad. Not the "I have a different opinion because" but trying to put other opinions down. They could just simple not answer back and I am quite sure the discussion about dancer would have been done in two, three pages.


@ topic:
Well since Spiderman got bitten by a spider thus animal I want it to be a beast master. ;) I love the classes with beasts so I would maybe change from summoner to it. But we will also get dancer! Since the WoL is the master dancer, every class will get a special new move set that involves dancing. For tanks its make the enemy angry as hell. Maybe some nice twerking? :cool: (yes this is not meant to be serious but would be funny as hell imo)

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Originally Posted by Balipu

Yoshie-P shut down Blue Mage and Puppet Master earlier

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I think I've seen some negative thoughts from Yoshi regarding Blue Mage. Never seen anything for Puppetmaster from Yoshi. Can anyone provide a link or at least mention what he said?

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Originally Posted by DBelmont

Never seen anything for Puppetmaster from Yoshi. Can anyone provide a link or at least mention what he said?

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I'm also among those who were told that Puppet Master is a no, so i don't have a link. But it has been regarded as a fact even before the official Stormblood reveal.
You know I'm really curious about this spiderman riddle now. Okay, that's not true. I've been curious ever since the Tokyo fan fest. But the more I think about it, the less sense it makes. Ble Mage works well but Yoshie-P has been against Blue Mage for a long long time now. He might change his stance, but that's not that likely. Samurai requires a logic jump, and Dancer requires a logic airplane flight. Since Spider Man is "Animal Person" Beastmaster has a high chance, but honestly it doesn't sound that interesting. Of course I will try it out for the story, but it doesn't sound like job I will care about that much.

Maybe it's Hunter because he can trap his ennemies with his web.
Somehow, he is like a predator.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...b_weaver05.jpg

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Originally Posted by Balipu

You know I'm really curious about this spiderman riddle

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If we consider the new job being a classic and also consider every hint, it only leaves Samurai. Because BLU and PUP have been dismissed and there is no other job to relate to the hint.

There are also some possibilities I would not like. For example, something completely new that has no nostalgic value. Another one I'd dislike would be Dancer merged with Puppetmaster to make it indeed look like Spiderman or something.

It could also be Dancer itself featuring a needle+thread as a weapon.

What about a discple of hand job...that take picture? We all know in the beginning peter parker was selling spiderman picture to get some extra $, and with the new addition of a painter, who knows...could be some custom picture frame that require that and you take picture of people/group of people and frame it for housing decoration or murals.

I know im stretching it by a lot, but i just had to say it (sorry if it has been said in the other 67 pages, i didn't read those).

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Originally Posted by Alleo

snip

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If you truly want to bury your head in the sand, I can't stop you. Especially when there is plenty of factual information out there if you'd just look it up or pay attention to live letters (the amount of jobs released going forward statement was said right after Heavensward came out). So, please continue ignoring facts for the sake of your 'desires." I'll leave you to it.

I haven't read through the entire thread, but has anyone pointed out the japanese samurai version of spiderman?

http://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-rpnfvj...0.1280.jpg?c=2

http://www.bandaionline.com/meisho-m...action-figure/

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Originally Posted by Molic

Picture of Spidaru-man in samurai armour

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Yep, everyone has. It think someone dug that up within minutes of YoshiP coming out in that shirt...

The internet scares me.