New summoner is unacceptable

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

You're right that they are two different things. One is thrust upon you and another is optional and you can seek it out at your pleasure. What a concept.

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Someone had a gun to your head to make you install the game and choose what job to play?

Is it really that bare-bones now? It looked so cool in the trailer! Cooler than Scholar, that's for sure. And here I was hoping Miasma and Bane would be moved to Scholar. Nope. Apparently instead of curing healer-syndrome, SE is just letting it spread to other jobs.

There's always going to be outcries hating the change. I remember when people were upset when Bowmage were taken away.

There will be an adaptation period where players will shift away or back to Jobs that have changed. This always happens. Complexities of jobs get simplfied as mechanics and attacks get added in. This is all based on feedback that is visible and numbers that are not. Honestly nothing new here.

That said, OP, you're 83? Take a look at the tooltips. You'll be getting more off global to weave in 3 levels. I'll be testing alongside and will have my own impressions. So far, yes, I see the simplification (Execution on it is simple, but the job shows some variance in the 5 different 'modes' it provides. I feel as if it does lack a something in the 80-86 range that would fill in. This may be a case of some abilities being tuned too high in the level scaling again.)

I expect there are eyes on this job above others as it is a major rework. We may see some changes down the line to balance its use, though that will be minor. Typically we'll see some updates spattered through the patches to address truly glaring issues. So yes, for now I wouldn't expect another major rework while they give us time to properly assess.

That said, they're not really focused on how the job preforms as its climbing the ever-growing latter too much beyond "Is it playable" comments at level 90 will likely garner more attention. We'll have to wait a bit to see what the overall impression is like.

(Honestly, I'm beginning to feel like a FFXIV Historian at this rate.)

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Originally Posted by EverQuest

Or I dunno just play another game. The entire player base isn't chasing 100s.

Log in perform average collect your loot come back when you have more to do. Seems pretty straightforward and something even Yoshi said was perfectly fine.

There's a ton of straightforward jobs. The entire prang is basically ez pz. Rdm and Blm are pretty chill now. Reaper is pretty chill. Pretty much all the tanks are chillaxation.

Summoner was basically an outliers with it being overly complex. New summoner is about on par with all the other others now. You might argue a few complex jobs are still out but those appear to be getting tuned down over time.

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SMN wasn't "overly complex".
The game just obfuscated the intent of its mechanics up until level 80.
It was about timer alignment, keeping your dots up, making sure you didn't overcap or otherwise waste resources, and trying to ensure you managed those resources well enough to be able to go into bahamut phase with 4 stacks of ruin 4.
You could break it down into 3 distinct phases. Resource management, DWT+baha, and phoenix. Relaxed casting to make sure all your ducks are in a row, the payoff for planning well, and a mechanical twist that is simple, relaxing, and novel at the same time.


Any other nuances were from coding issues that STILL PLAGUE the job in 6.0, and are made even worse by the new and profound lack of control we have over our "summons"

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

There's always going to be outcries hating the change. I remember when people were upset when Bowmage were taken away.

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You forgot however that Bowmage was taken away because the people that mained BRD in 2.0 hated hated hated that change. Just like SMN hated Ruinmage and wanted Bahamut over Bahamut's Breath (3.0 DWT). It doesn't take a soothsayer to see what this job is going to be like @ 90 because it was built very simple.

But you're right, SE doesn't have a habit of making major changes in the middle of series cycle so everyone basically stuck with what we got.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

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You always seem to come running to the defense of these change and I"m curious, what level is your Summoner now?

I'm enjoying the aesthetic part of it, but the rotation seems pretty boring. There are already jobs that are very straight-forward and simple, I don't get why every job must follow this path and people can't have options. Everyone talks about "hey, play another job" but people have mained this class for years... why don't YOU play another job instead of pointing fingers at people that enjoyed this class for years and wanting every single class to appeal to YOUR play style?
The remake really gutted the job for those that enjoyed it and only wanted it to be better, not something else entirely, without even fixing the problems that the class used to have. It's understandable that these people wouldn't like it and acting like THEY should switch jobs now, given that those were probably their mains is borderline rude.

Also, the whole talk about something needing to be easier... You could clear the easy/mandatory content without even knowing how to utilize summoner's kit or any other complex kit already, I don't get why something has to be even more accessible than this? Some people having fun at mastering their classes, not only specific fights. This game, understandable, doesn't have enough brand-new fights for you to spend your time with, at some point optimizing the way you play turns into content as well.

My biggest gripe is that I actually don't feel that I have any decision-making so far into my rotation, the pet ai is horrible (this was actually what I was looking forward to getting fixed the most), and the sprites are nice, but also I hardly feel like a summoner either. I feel that a class that has a carby on steroids and that just keep pressing buttons without really thinking and that's it. The aetherflow/energy drain mechanic seems really out of place, and at level 80 the job is weird... like I'm missing something inside my rotation. It's hard to describe the feeling tbh, but it doesn't sit well. IMO, although fun at first, because it's flashy, it seems that it'll get repetitive quickly.

My condolences for smn mains.

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Originally Posted by Roda

SMN wasn't "overly complex".
The game just obfuscated the intent of its mechanics up until level 80.
It was about timer alignment, keeping your dots up, making sure you didn't overcap or otherwise waste resources, and trying to ensure you managed those resources well enough to be able to go into bahamut phase with 4 stacks of ruin 4.
You could break it down into 3 distinct phases. Resource management, DWT+baha, and phoenix. Relaxed casting to make sure all your ducks are in a row, the payoff for planning well, and a mechanical twist that is simple, relaxing, and novel at the same time.


Any other nuances were from coding issues that STILL PLAGUE the job in 6.0, and are made even worse by the new and profound lack of control we have over our "summons"

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You summed up my feelings exactly. They took a job that was fun to play around planning and resource management that was plagued by bugs due to the bad coding on the companion AI and replaced it with a mechanically inferior job that is zero fun to play and that is still plagued by the same companion AI issues to which they arguably added more.

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Originally Posted by EverQuest

Or I dunno just play another game. The entire player base isn't chasing 100s.

Log in perform average collect your loot come back when you have more to do. Seems pretty straightforward and something even Yoshi said was perfectly fine.

There's a ton of straightforward jobs. The entire prang is basically ez pz. Rdm and Blm are pretty chill now. Reaper is pretty chill. Pretty much all the tanks are chillaxation.

Summoner was basically an outliers with it being overly complex. New summoner is about on par with all the other others now. You might argue a few complex jobs are still out but those appear to be getting tuned down over time.

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Wow, every raider surely only logs in to the game just raid. Totally!

Grow up, please. Just because players do the Savage content and Ultimates, doesn't mean they don't do other content as well.
It's only a select portion of the raiders that do the raid logging thing.

It sure is lovely that the one magical class that appealed to me is now a hollow, unfinished mess that it is right now with false promises of being fixed.
"Go play something else", sure. Like what? Oh wait, I just said that this the only magical class that appealed to me! Aethestetically and gameplaywise. Ranged? No thanks. Healers? Nah, boring. Tanks? Only Dark Knight, but I miss being a magical damage dealer.
Melee? Nope, not for me either.

There was only one class I legitimately enjoyed the battle content from and now thanks to this "rework" which I do not even wish to call a rework because it simply isn't complete, there's nothing left.

Another thing, a level 80 class shouldn't be feeling like 60.

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Originally Posted by Roda

SMN wasn't "overly complex".
The game just obfuscated the intent of its mechanics up until level 80.

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Stop there.

Do you hear yourself. You're level 80. Pause a moment. Take a breath. Let's get to 90. I'm fairly certain you'll still have similar complaints - but lets see if your assessment of 'intent of mechanics'. Holds true for 90 as well.

Its sad that it went from most complex of the DPS casters to its easier than RDM now.