Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

I just recently saw that line....It was one of the few times where a dialogue option was the automatic choice and that was number 1.

2 felt completely ridiculous and out of place. Like Wuk Lamat sailed to another continent to practically beg for our help and she did all the work!????

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Originally Posted by Tethan

Couldn't have put it better.

Another thing that pissed me off was

(spoiler 3rd zone)

When Bakool Ja Ja instantly turned around into a fast ally (whose trust Wuk Lamat has earned, somehow). The reveal of how he was groomed and pressured into the role was actually the first time the MSQ made me feel anything at all, it was genuinely pretty sad and messed up to learn. And yet my WoL has nothing but harsh words for him. Meanwhile, Wuk Lamat, saint that she is, acts forgiving. Because of course she does, only she can be kind and good.

Never before has the WoL felt so railroaded. I'm starting to dislike my own character.

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I know what you mean. I wish there would've been an option for the WoL to be more understanding. Even if it just had been the "..." response.

I really disliked Bakool Ja Ja from the start (of course he was written to be disliked). But, as someone who struggles with major depression, the feeling ob being a failure, and the occasional wish to never have been born, when he said that he should've died within his egg like the rest of his siblings, well...I felt that...

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Originally Posted by Kreyd

I know what you mean. I wish there would've been an option for the WoL to be more understanding. Even if it just had been the "..." response.

I really disliked Bakool Ja Ja from the start (of course he was written to be disliked). But, as someone who struggles with major depression, the feeling ob being a failure, and the occasional wish to never have been born, when he said that he should've died within his egg like the rest of his siblings, well...I felt that...

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Yeah I've just hit that bit and I hated it, the writers don't know how to write the WoL and just writen them to be some honestly hard to like. The game game just seems to be burning everything to for Wuk adn I can't see any reason why

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Originally Posted by Regis_Paran

Erenville on his "frienship" with Wuk Lamat...

https://i.imgur.com/x0G7pd6.jpeg

I'm not going to lie, this made me lol so hard.. :D

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How I feel playing:

https://i.imgur.com/kRxcTrR.jpeg

this is unreal
im going insane
https://i.imgur.com/34RC16m.png

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Originally Posted by Stapler-san

this is unreal
im going insane
https://i.imgur.com/34RC16m.png

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change Alisaie and that is every quest and I don't think we've ever had one character just overtake the narritive

Stomblood was Lyse's story. Heavensward (especially for the first half) was Alphinauds's story.

Spoilers for the 4th zone

While I don't dislike Wuk Lamat and think she has her charms, even if she is definitely not my type of character in general, I thought forums were too harsh on her...Until I've got to the 4th zone. Not having her around (or twins and krile too tbh) is such a breath of fresh air. I had no idea how annoying she was. I still don't hate her, but her embodiment of joy and happiness is so over the top it is really unbearable. Erenville just carrying the whole dlc

I actually found Wuk Lamat to be a decently fun character at the start pre-DT and in the leadup to Tuliyollal, like an overblown jolly warrior trope but that's fine since the story is more laidback supposedly. But then as the plot went on and things got more serious, I couldn't take her seriously nor care for her in the slightest. She's, for lack of a better term, a sheltered spoiled princess who apparently has never experienced the basics of the world and has an childishly idealistic view of everything, and that type of character is very difficult to relate to and feel sympathetic towards because the urge to say "oh grow up" outweighs any amount of empathy they try to drum out of us. The whole "peace and happiness" trope she keeps bringing up is wearing thin, and they continue to double down on it as the plot goes on.

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Originally Posted by DrForester

Stomblood was Lyse's story. Heavensward (especially for the first half) was Alphinauds's story.

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It wasn't there story at the expense of everything else

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Originally Posted by DrForester

Stomblood was Lyse's story. Heavensward (especially for the first half) was Alphinauds's story.

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Even if that was true (which it really isn't), in Heavensward Haurchefant's death while defending WoL makes them personally involved in the story, and is arguably the first time when WoL has personal stakes in the story, wanting revenge.

In Stormblood however, Zenos becomes a personal rival that pushes WoL to their limit, giving them an incentive to see through this liberation of Ala Mhigo and Doma as Zenos is heavily involved.

No similar hook exists in Dawntrail to make it feel that WoL has personal stakes and interests that intertwine with the story of the main NPCs. Not in a similar fashion as previous expansions, at least.

I was neutral on Wuk Lamat in 6.55, but as Dawntrail progressed I started to hate her more and more for many of the reason people have already stated in this topic. I've pretty much lost interest in the expansion story as a whole, I'm at the lv 96 MSQ quests and I'm debating just skipping past the rest of the story for the first time since starting this game.

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Originally Posted by Fluxating

I was neutral on Wuk Lamat in 6.55, but as Dawntrail progressed I started to hate her more and more for many of the reason people have already stated in this topic. I've pretty much lost interest in the expansion story as a whole, I'm at the lv 96 MSQ quests and I'm debating just skipping past the rest of the story for the first time since starting this game.

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It only gets worse, at least to me it did and avoiding any spoilers let just say - once Wuk Lamat was done with me I was not even sure if I have strength to keep FF XIV on or do anything within the game. I just felt exhausted. Disappointed. Bored. I mean as someone said earlier, if I had any trouble understanding what the End Singers disperse was, I know now. She was trying to save WoL and the world from Wuk Lamat and we stopped her. It's on us.

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Originally Posted by Tehmon

Even if that was true (which it really isn't), in Heavensward Haurchefant's death while defending WoL makes them personally involved in the story, and is arguably the first time when WoL has personal stakes in the story, wanting revenge.

In Stormblood however, Zenos becomes a personal rival that pushes WoL to their limit, giving them an incentive to see through this liberation of Ala Mhigo and Doma as Zenos is heavily involved.

No similar hook exists in Dawntrail to make it feel that WoL has personal stakes and interests that intertwine with the story of the main NPCs. Not in a similar fashion as previous expansions, at least.

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Yep. Haruchefant died, and we wanted revenge, not just for him, but for Edmont, too. When Ysayle died, I had to sit quietly at my computer for a long time before moving on.

If Wuk Lamat died, I would be sorely tempted to congratulate whoever killed her. Because, and yes, this is mean, the only personal stake and interest I have in her is how annoying she is. If the 7.X patches leave Tuliyollal and never speak of it again, I will actually be ecstatic. At this point, Dawntrail doesn't need to be the start of an arc. It needs to be its own little expansion, neat and tidily wrapped up with a bow, so we can have a real beginning of a story arc in the next expansion (or in the post-expansion patches).

Wuk Lumat is the Jar Jar Binks of FFXIV.

"Wuk Lamat is the key to all this, if we get Wuk Lamat working. 'Cause she's a funnier character than we've ever had in the games."

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

Wuk Lumat is the Jar Jar Binks of FFXIV.

"Wuk Lamat is the key to all this, if we get Wuk Lamat working. 'Cause she's a funnier character than we've ever had in the games."

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"Hopefully it'll work.."

Learning Bakool Ja Ja's backstory and motives... Man, I would've backed him as Dawnservant had I known these things.

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Originally Posted by Stapler-san

this is unreal
im going insane
https://i.imgur.com/34RC16m.png

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Maybe that's the goal. To make the WoL (and us lol) slowly go insane. Why that should be a goal however, I don't know. Yet. :D

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Originally Posted by Aniise

Maybe that's the goal. To make the WoL (and us lol) slowly go insane. Why that should be a goal however, I don't know. Yet. :D

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Dawntrail is surely making me want to finish what Emet-Selch, Lahabrea and Elidibus started.

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Originally Posted by Stapler-san

this is unreal
im going insane
https://i.imgur.com/34RC16m.png

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Pray return to the Wuking Sands.

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Originally Posted by Karious

"If it weren't for you all listening and feeling and thinking along with me..."
Shut up. SHUT UP.

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I hear what you're saying. I feel the same. I don't think the current writing team has the right to use that phrase.

It is just beyond my comprehension how poor the story is, and while Wuk Lamat is the face of it (since she is in our face 95% of the time), it feels like many events or plots are there just to make excuse for Wuk Lamat to be there, or to experience something regardless of whoever is there with her. WoL rarely reacts to any situation, even when returning to the
spoiler

Tuliyollal during the attack, we are just observing how place is attacked, not lifting a finger so we won't by accident take the spotlight away from Wuk Lamat

and there are many more examples for this sort of writing that basically throws away any thing related to the particular already established character if it could in any way threaten the spotlight for new leader of Scions of the seventh dawn, considering she is basically leading at some point.

spoiler

At the same time this sheltered goofball with "big heart and compassion" is faced with a a person who's doing eugenics experiments with 1% success rate, where we know that there were at least 2 that succeeded, meaning about 198 infants dead and kept in a jars at the bottom of some pit. Do not get me wrong, I do dig the theme and the subject, darkness in a overall cheerful fantasy world.

Wuk Lamat is having a "tantrum" calling it that but she can't really express any other emotion than neutral-happy with voice this flat, when 50 people are killed in Tuliyollal (and her father) promising revenge on her brother.

Soo... going back to at least 200 murdered lizard babies, the Chief of Mamook said sorry, so everything is rainbows now and she's all good with him, since technically those are just some lizard infants, who cares about them... right?

And there are many more instances where weird story choices are made, just to make her into false hero, with no backstory or real moral compass - and everyone around her acts like she is a godsent... why exactly? Not to mention she just took away first place for worst possible leader nation can have, dethroning Lyse.

We explored the void in 2 patches. We explore a new continent in a whole expansion. Both have characters that are weak at the start and are underdogs. One theme is cool and related to FFIV, with proper FF lore. The other is your average Eorzea politics just with new trees and beaches. SE chose the later to be the new expansion.... why?

Also WoL can never have a 'fresh start' when they're always expected to play the role of a super hero. We dueled the king and could've killed him if we wanted to. And the story always puts emphasis of WoL being different and strong. We're super saiyans being put in the world of mere mortals. Enough of the "vacations" if you can't let WoL to relax. "Here is the city of gold for you to explore" "but actually, it's also tied to the throne and politics". That's not really a task for an explorer is it?

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Originally Posted by Lieri

We explored the void in 2 patches. We explore a new continent in a whole expansion. Both have characters that are weak at the start and are underdogs.

One theme is cool and related to FFIV, with proper FF lore. The other is your average Eorzea politics just with new trees and beaches. SE chose the later to be the new expansion.... why?

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I really would've preferred to continue with Zero now that she's a PLD and doesn't have that stupid hat to tip.

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Originally Posted by Fluxating

I was neutral on Wuk Lamat in 6.55, but as Dawntrail progressed I started to hate her more and more for many of the reason people have already stated in this topic. I've pretty much lost interest in the expansion story as a whole, I'm at the lv 96 MSQ quests and I'm debating just skipping past the rest of the story for the first time since starting this game.

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I have been playing this game since 1.0 and I have never ever skipped dialog or a cutscene, just because I am invested in this game. But after that part in the 94 questline where Wuk took me somewhere just to flatly scream about peace and being the dawn servant I was over it and skipped most of the rest of the story. The parts I did see made me just keep skipping. I have no regrets. This whole story has been simply awful. 1.0 with all its faults, was still vastly superior to whatever this is.

TO be fair, with how miserable I was at the end of Dawntrail almost any story based on anyone would be better, would it be Zero or Papalymo returning from the dead to haunt me. I just can't understand how someone looked at the storyboard and thought "yeah that's a good idea lets go with that" and do not get me wrong, I do not hate the concept of WoL being a mentor to some NPC, just a combination of poor excuse for a plot and Wuk Lamat was... well enough for me to feel like I am playing... well completely different game, one that just slaps some story at you, whatever it is just to slap it and be done with it. Instead of story that one way or the other was able to capture my attention and like no other game ever make me experience vivid emotions while witnessing story unfold. This time around? I was praying to gods any gods to end my suffering as I was forcing myself to go through the story, reading it or listening, each time kinda hoping it was some sort of bad joke and that it'll end at some point? No. It did not. Not until the very end. And perhaps Wuk Lamat is not so bad, perhaps she is not so annoying... but she was in my face, talking without saying anything for what it seems to be 95% of the screen time.

If SE were to add DT story skips to the mogstation within the next week or so, they'd make out like bandits.

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

Dawntrail is surely making me want to finish what Emet-Selch, Lahabrea and Elidibus started.

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YoshiP designed 7.0 - 7.5 to be this way to set your storyline up for the WoL in 8.0. YoshiP I kneel! I kneel!

I hate mostly that I understand where the devs wanted to go with this character, but I felt like we skipped some important steps and got shoved in the role of unconditional supporters with waaay too little known about her. The fact that we all, as a crew, act as besties and everyone loves her for being this sort of clumsy ray of sunshine is fine to me personally, but build some foundation for it. As I finished MSQ, I still don't like her, because I felt like it was a given for the writing team that you'd like her from moment zero, so there's no point in taking theyr time in building up this character, which, btw, is basically the mc of this story, while you're just on the side, supporting her, so I think this is ulteriorly a reason why this is bad writing for a central character like her... Not super good at expressing my thoughts about it, but those were bits of it.

A void rift should open up in 7.01 and Wuk Lamat should go on an adventure to learn about the people there.
On their own of course, and the rift should suddenly seal up. Forever.

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

Not gonna spoil anything but my god. It's actually difficult to do the MSQ with such an obnoxious character.

Maybe I'll change my mind at the end... maybe... but it doesn't seem that way anymore...

Edit: To the people trying to gaslight story criticizers into thinking it's just some loud forum minority...

4chan is very critical of the story too, although I'm not sure whether they're actually mad at the story or mad at this "Sweet Baby" thing I keep seeing.

/r/ffxivdiscussion is very critical of the story. You can see it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...iscussion_hub/

/r/ffxiv is also mildly critical of the story, though it's more mixed: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...il_rises_to_a/

/r/MMORPG is critical. https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comm...ting_on_steam/

Steam is mixed. Dawntrail is at 60% right now.

GameFaqs is mixed and leans critical: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards...trail/80799642, https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards...trail/80800359

5ch is very critical: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...dawntrail_msq/ (Although once again it's... 5chan).

Anecdotally I've also seen a lot of criticism in shout chat. On my Discord servers and in-game interactions it's also mixed to lean-critical.

Only Twitter is unabashedly positive about DT.

My longer criticism of the story here: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-full-spoilers Full spoilers!

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there is no gaslighting, it is a minority, her character is fine.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

there is no gaslighting, it is a minority, her character is fine.

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Gaslightings not even real, what do lamps have to do with this?

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

there is no gaslighting, it is a minority, her character is fine.

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There is no war in Ba Sing Se.

https://i.imgur.com/Al3X01C.png

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

https://i.imgur.com/Al3X01C.png

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How dare you imply that learning that traders like to trade, or that learning a taco recipe isn't character development?

Having finished the MSQ now, I return with newfound hate for the character.
They really insisted on her ruining every single good moment in this expansion.

Ending spoilers

Having her show up in the final trial screeching in her insufferable voice that she understands Sphene while axe-ing her in the face... why... Just to steal the last chance we had at an "epic" moment in the story for ourselves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radvo

Having finished the MSQ now, I return with newfound hate for the character.
They really insisted on her ruining every single good moment in this expansion.

Ending spoilers

Having her show up in the final trial screeching in her insufferable voice that she understands Sphene while axe-ing her in the face... why... Just to steal the last chance we had at an "epic" moment in the story for ourselves.

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Seriously it's a joke, spoiler below

More like we're winning, ok plot demands that we're losing so a barrier between locations in a virtual world breaks open which Wuk did so she can come save us with her "Anime Friendship Shonen Power". I'm the main character, out of my way peasant! I've got to reason with an AI!

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Originally Posted by lolnotacat

How dare you imply that learning that traders like to trade, or that learning a taco recipe isn't character development?

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*sips tea*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

Seriously it's a joke, spoiler below

More like we're winning, ok plot demands that we're losing so a barrier between locations in a virtual world breaks open which Wuk did so she can come save us with her "Anime Friendship Shonen Power". I'm the main character, out of my way peasant! I've got to reason with an AI!

*sips tea*

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The manner of her entry in that fight is a very obvious attempt to copy one of the coolest moment in EndWalker. Like I said before Wuk has a lot of copy and paste aspects that were popular with other characters, and this team of writer thought they just have to recreate the samething and capture similar effect. It's like they don't understand it's the character that make the scene, not the other way around.

I want the adventure Estinien got to have this expansion.

Have never disliked a character as much as Wuk while simultaneously been forced to be with her non-stop for the entire expansion.

Plenty of other gripes, but all pale in comparison to the ominous cloud of Wuk that hangs over every inch of the expac. Sucking the fun out of other elements that I would otherwise be riding high on.

Its crazy how obvious it is that the WoL should have been doing what Estinien was doing