Healers who rescue pull tanks into mobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

Imagine thinking it takes anything remotely close to skill to wall-to-wall pull in dungeons. Just, imagine.

---

Given the average skill base of the players in this game? I mean...? Yeah at that point even a point of skill is still skill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Goji1639

Well, that's why non-verbal communication isn't very effective; it leaves things open to interpretation. Maybe you're trolling; maybe it was an accident; who knows. People assuming others can mind read their intentions seems to be part of the reason why communication in this game is so poor in general.

---

As i said it seems to be only ineffective if one generally assumes the worse. Non verbal communication is still valid, may not be the most optimal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enla

Given the average skill base of the players in this game? I mean...? Yeah at that point even a point of skill is still skill.

---

player base will never get better , cause everything except savage is piss easy, a lot of them dont like getting advice , a lot dont want to improve, and even most of the jobs became ACCESSIBLE oops my mistake i meant completely devoid of skill celling , so instead of the game having 1 beginners job per category now every job is ACCESSIBLE godamnit i did it again i meant simplified to the point of most jobs being a skin rather than something that people could learn from . Now that they have introduced such a comfort zone people will not want to leave it so instead of trying to learn they instead ask to dumb down everything . Something that also is incomprehensible to me is that people arent willing to take risks, ok you go in someone asks for you to pull more adds but you havent done it before, lets say you try to do it and then you died, whats the
big deal? You died in a video game but at least you tried i dont get how dieing in a video game is such a big deal that people are so reluctant to try out hard stuff =w=. as much as i think this game community isnt sacred saints like most present it , its not league of legends either . nobody will get mad cause you tried and failed and nobody just went ahead and did it first time, we re not geniuses we are a bunch of nerds trying to have some fun slowly get better and in case of a savage boss slowly prog and lose our minds in the process , wondering how many days would we need to be in pf before we start getting really family friendly with each other


imo only the casters have retained their skill celling and have a job with a good skill floor. blm ofc teaches you how to be aware of your position in order to get the maximum amount of casts ,being aware of the fight not your rotation , smn instead is the opposite you need to plan out your whole rotation so that you dont waste stuff making each encounter needing a different plan every time, even though they made it clunkier in shb................, and rdm is the one who is the beginners class without an overly complex rotation and a gameplay that its much more forgiving with dualcast and even giving him chain res and a heal to make it even safer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Awha

I have ran into groups where someone asked for large pulls and started a similar debate as to what is going on here. This is why I normally try to avoid even talking in groups let alone request anything. Granted this normally happens when I am a dps and I just sit around waiting for the tank and healer to figure out what to do.

If I get titled I am also personally likely to say something I should not so for me it is not wise to do.

---

Fair enough.
To me it doesn't really matter what people make out, I'll tag along whatever the pull method is anyway, which is probably why I basicly never encountered any problems with people asking what the group prefers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Awha

Tbh I do not think anyone is advocating for zero communication. Just seems some people do not view non verbal communication as a valid form of communication.

Running ahead, pulling extra mobs, using rescue seems to denote a desire for larger pulls. Why must it be in the form of a verbal request?

---

First one, I'm fine with.
Second one, don't do it - you run the risk of dying, because server will smack you first before caring that I AOE'd the mobs.

Both of those are passive and not passive aggressive in my eyes.

My stance on the last one has already been made in this thread.

This poor dead horse has been beaten for so long that even the maggots aren't hungry anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quintessa

First one, I'm fine with.
Second one, don't do it - you run the risk of dying, because server will smack you first before caring that I AOE'd the mobs.

Both of those are passive and not passive aggressive in my eyes.

My stance on the last one has already been made in this thread.

This poor dead horse has been beaten for so long that even the maggots aren't hungry anymore.

---

If someone pulls so many mobs ahead of me and dies as i try to get aggro that is on them. The few times I pull extra mobs for the tank normally I keep it to one extra pack maybe two if they are close together then bring the pack back to the tank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quintessa

Second one, don't do it - you run the risk of dying, because server will smack you first before caring that I AOE'd the mobs.

---

All that means is that there's slightly less damage hitting the tank during the pull. There is no pack of enemies in the game that's going to obliterate someone in a single series of auto attacks, even e8s Shiva doesn't one shot with an auto unless you get real unlucky with a server tick and take two at once.

There's no danger or wasted resources here.

I've had my friend who plays healers troll me a good bit with Rescue before, but we mess with each other all the time in various ways just because we can. I don't think I've ever been trolled by a random healer though, as a tank or a dps. Every time I have been rescued, or seen them rescue someone else, it has been for a good reason and I let out a sigh of relief afterward since it usually saves lives. It's an invaluable tool in the right hands, but it can definitely be used for evil as well. I just don't see it being used for evil very often at all. Maybe I'm lucky or something. I doubt that very much though.

Only today did I learn that knockback immunity also makes Rescue fail, as I tried to yoink a WAR tank using Inner Release (Who wasn't making even the slightest effort to avoid gaining vuln stacks) out of an AoE, only to see a "miss" pop up.

Only time I've used it was to pull in stragglers during the ancient flare in labyrinth. I've had a healer pull me into AOE before in the vault though. That was something. Scared the living crap outta me since it almost killed me. Other than that, I don't see much use for the skill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I've had my friend who plays healers troll me a good bit with Rescue before, but we mess with each other all the time in various ways just because we can. I don't think I've ever been trolled by a random healer though, as a tank or a dps. Every time I have been rescued, or seen them rescue someone else, it has been for a good reason and I let out a sigh of relief afterward since it usually saves lives. It's an invaluable tool in the right hands, but it can definitely be used for evil as well. I just don't see it being used for evil very often at all. Maybe I'm lucky or something. I doubt that very much though.

---

The best game to play with your tank friends (and sometimes random jerk tanks)as a healer is how low can you go. :^)

Teaches you how to be efficient with your heals as well xD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HeulGDarian

The best game to play with your tank friends (and sometimes random jerk tanks)as a healer is how low can you go. :^)

Teaches you how to be efficient with your heals as well xD

---

The how low can you go game is just standard healing, imo. The only HP that matters is the last one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

The how low can you go game is just standard healing, imo. The only HP that matters is the last one.

---

I agree with this as a tank main. As long as I don't die, I don't care what a healer does with my health. It's my job to help healers out by doing mechanics properly, and keeping my CDs on cooldown/properly utilized for fights. My health is little to no concern to me in content. Let's just both do our jobs to keep me from losing that last one.

If I'm doing all that I'm supposed to and still die though? Nah lol...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TofuPenguin

Other than that, I don't see much use for the skill.

---

One place it was used fairly extensively was in OS12, as the generally accepted "safe" PUG strat necessitated Rescue yanking one of the tanks across the arena to get them to the opposite side of the map to resolve Hello World properly.

Hmmm. It's an old thread, I understand, but I wanted to tell my story.

My husband was tanking Praetorium. One of the healers was evidently buddies with the other tank, as this healer constantly pulled my husband's toon away from mobs and bosses in order for the other tank to take aggro. It happened almost from the first pull til the very end. My man is an extremely easygoing one, so didn't see much point in delaying the run by typing an objection. We were both pleased when that moronic healer died needlessly to some AOE.

If I had been the tank being jerked all around the freaking dungeon, I'd have been furious enough to leave. I am trying to get over that mentality because the person leaving is the one who pays the price for someone else's trashy behaviour.

I loathe the evil that can be done with Rescue. Indeed, it seems like the kind of skill that should be reserved for enemies, or PVP. I completely agree with everyone who has indicated being Rescued feels like a slap in the face, even if it's not intended as such. It feels hideously invasive. It is possible that I take my character and myself too seriously. :B

Despite my loathing of Rescue, I am a career healer, so there have been several occasions on which I wished I had known how to time a Rescue to save someone from a killing AOE. That alone, as someone upthread put it, means I would like to have access to that skill.

I am glad that the rest of my run-ins with this ability have been benign, or at least well-intended. In fact, my husband was healing in Copied Factory for the first time, and the other healer definitely pulled him out of several deadly situations. I believe that speaks sufficiently of the skill's virtue, but I have absolute empathy for anyone who really hates this weird ability.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flatbear

I am glad that the rest of my run-ins with this ability have been benign, or at least well-intended. In fact, my husband was healing in Copied Factory for the first time, and the other healer definitely pulled him out of several deadly situations. I believe that speaks sufficiently of the skill's virtue, but I have absolute empathy for anyone who really hates this weird ability.

---

Personally, i love Rescue as an ability for healers. But, that's only because i use it in order to prevent another player to get killed by a mechanic. I've had runs of the Puppets Bunker, where other players had difficulty to see which "Cone" at the first boss was safe, or accidently run INTO the Air Raid / Sharp Turn AoE.

So, all of my Rescue uses are well-intended. Unless a friend is begging me to rescue them off a platform or into an AoE. However, that happened only 2 to 3 times since the skill was released. lol

However, i totally understand the frustration from the players on the receiving end of it, if we interrupt their casts, yank them out of their Ley Lines, or pull them into the next pack (just to make the run faster). The last one (where the thread has been created for) is something even i find particularly rude. Sure, we all want to clear a duty as fast as possible, so that we can move on to the next piece of content.

But, if the tank is not pulling fast enough, you can ask politely to pull more. If they are not comfortable with it, don't just force them by pulling them into the next pack. Using "force" is never a good idea.

I actually like using Rescue and more often than not I’m thanked for using it properly. Many Gap closer abilities like Rough Divide or Aetherial Manipulation are like an enhanced Sprint. The way my bars are set up (controller) I have Sprint on L2-Triangle on all 4 of my right left side shape with bars so some form of sprint is always ready without switching. With gap closers replace Sprint. This way as a healer I’m treating it like a reverse sprint and forcing someone in an AoE to sprint to me. The only time this backfired for me is one time I was in harms way my self- which if I hit the Rescue I’m usually not.

Maybe I can get pics of my hot bar later to better explain.

I mostly play WHM these days, and honestly its the one ability I think really needs to go.
Yes, I could save someone from an aoe to the face because they chose not to move or were ignorant, but to be frank, thats on them to figure out and deal with the consequences. Not me. And if they intentionally stand in Aoes cuz "deeps", I will let them die.

That being said, I do try and use it for its intended purpose where and when I can when I'm doing stuff with my FC, but more often than not It's just being used to incorrectly prank or grief people. (Even in my own FC its something of a prank/joke to use it to kill each other for fun.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Goji1639

Rescue really isn't fine. It's 80% of the time a useless troll button; 19% of the time a "well intended healer screws up your rotation" button; 1% of the time a technical net gain for the group, maybe. I mean seriously, why NOT change it?

---

Also, 80% of people make up numbers. It's true. I read that on the internet.

at least give us an /rescueme on /rescueme off option or something to toggle yourself unresuceable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

The how low can you go game is just standard healing, imo. The only HP that matters is the last one.

---

The only issue I have with that game is when they let me get down to 5-10% and I hit Superbolide, and they're like "WHY YOU DO THIS?! I WAS GONNA BENE YOU!"

...Yeah, well, don't make me use my "panic button" then. lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

The only issue I have with that game is when they let me get down to 5-10% and I hit Superbolide, and they're like "WHY YOU DO THIS?! I WAS GONNA BENE YOU!"

...Yeah, well, don't make me use my "panic button" then. lol

---

I actually had a WHM tell me at the start of a dungeon not to use Superbolide because they would bene me in time. They also told me every time that bene became useable again so that I wouldn't use Super. It was actually a fairly quick run(iirc it was the new 5.4 dungeon).

It certainly has its use, no doubt.
In my personal experience, however, it has just led to confusion. Like being yanked for no reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avatre

I actually had a WHM tell me at the start of a dungeon not to use Superbolide because they would bene me in time. They also told me every time that bene became useable again so that I wouldn't use Super. It was actually a fairly quick run(iirc it was the new 5.4 dungeon).

---

Yeah, I usually don't get that warning. Thankfully this doesn't happen often.

What if "Rescue" only worked if an AOE was going to kill a hero and it pop "automatically". This why no one would ever be pulled with out reason.

I removed it from my WHM bar. You wanna stay in that orange circle? Have fun. I’d rather not get yelled at for helping either.

It is mostly bad because execution takes very specific timing and not unlike bene for WHM (which also misses 80% of the time when you're using it for an 'oh shit' moment instead of just fully healing someone after a rez) even when using it with the best intentions it can still come off as being trollish.

With that said, WHM once had a worse troll button. It was called Fluid Aura. It would knock-back and bind any enemy that was not immune to those two effects and boy was that fun if you were melee or tank (imagine hitting an enemy and suddenly it's completely out of your range). I think MCH had a version too. Both have been nerfed I think, Fluid Aura only binds now and I assume the MCH ability works the same or has been removed (because I haven't seen anyone use it).

I almost never use Rescue on tanks. Tanks are made to eat damage and throwing out Stoneskin (or whatever they're calling it now) or popping Addle and/or trusting the tank to manage their CDs is usually my MO when I'm healing. Honestly it's easier to raise someone than to try to successfully try to use Rescue. I like the concept but yes, I think it should be reworked.

You tank mains are gonna HATE me for this, but one use for Rescue I have is to tug on the leash of over-eager tanks.

When we've already pulled three groups of mobs, and you're about to get to the fourth one, and I just KNOW this is gonna make us wipe, yeah I'm gonna press that emergency rescue button and tug you back before you get yourself killed.

Usually, though, I use it for its intended use: rescuing someone who is unaware that they're standing right in the middle of a spot that's about to get them killed.

I do this enough that I would be very sad if Rescue disappeared. I like saving those sprouts from their impending doom.

This is why they need to reduce the CD down to like 30 seconds.

I was just in a run during which one of the healers (maybe both) continually used Rescue to pull a tank out of combat, then antagonized and gaslighted me when I called out this behaviour and demanded that it stop. When the tank himself indicated that the abuse was annoying, one of the healers said too bad, play a different game.

Beginning to side in favour of the people calling for changes to be made to this garbage.

And yes, I've reported the incident, but it won't carry any weight. We couldn't figure out which healer was doing it, or whether it was both alternately. I was only abused incidentally in defense of the person being Rescued away from mobs throughout the freaking dungeon.

Now I'll be wary and cynical every time I PUG something as tank, and I have three more tanks to level. Joy.

edit: Well, it sounds like something was done about the harassment after all!

If you can shave 0.2 seconds off a dungeon run by pulling me, do it every chance you get.
#UseRescueOnCooldown

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doki

at least give us an /rescueme on /rescueme off option or something to toggle yourself unresuceable.

---

Honestly, I would rather Rescue be removed entirely than this. If I never had any way of knowing whether or not someone was Rescueable, I'd just never use it. It's a loss to me in the first place since it's somewhere I could be doing a damage or healing cast; if it might also be utterly nonfunctional I'd just throw it in the bin. Imagine if you had an ability which could be used to aid the party, but where just... 50% of the time, it never worked. Would you waste a weaving spot or GCD (whichever was applicable) on that ability, or just keep it for something guaranteed to function?

(I mean, honestly, I rarely use it _anyway_, but the one time every few months I need to drag a sprout with the stack marker back to the group, or pull someone to the piano in Grand Cosmos or someone to a glowy spot to cleanse Doom in World of Darkness or whatever... well, better that than me spending a Swiftcast and 2400 MP.)

That said, I think the suggestion that it be made a proc like Excog isn't necessarily a bad one. You fire Rescue off and there's like... 3 seconds wherein if the person would take damage totaling more than 10% of their max HP, or would suffer a vuln stack, they instead zip over to where the healer used it. No damage (or minor damage)? No Rescue, thus no ability to troll with it.

It could probably still be abused, but it'd be a lot harder to do so. Couldn't play yank-a-tank, couldn't leap off the arena and drag a party member to their death, couldn't accidentally yoink someone across the danger bacon in E6S (which I have certainly never done), etc. And it would still in theory proc when someone would've died to meteors or Xande's Ancient Quagga cast or the Doom status in World of Darkness or Qarn or the Mortal Flame in Grand Cosmos, etc., so Rescue would still be useful in the manner it's meant to be useful.

It would, admittedly, do away with one of the few times I consistently use Rescue, which is the uptime cheese strategy in the Susano trial. (If the party's agreed to it, you can have everyone stay at Susano and keep fighting rather than running to meet the person with the stack marker halfway; the healer just Rescues the stack-marked person after they get knocked back, and everyone keeps uptime going.)

That said, I'm sure people would find ways to cheese with it if it were changed that way. Like letting melee keep uptime until the last second, and having the Rescue proc zip them to safety or whatever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Packetdancer

That said, I'm sure people would find ways to cheese with it if it were changed that way. Like letting melee keep uptime until the last second, and having the Rescue proc zip them to safety or whatever.

---

I can guarantee you 100% that people will find ways to cheese everything they can with it. Rescue was already used to cancel LB animation lock and they removed it. And that is pretty tame compared to cheesing entire mechanics. It could even go as far as cheesing one shot mechanics/ busters.
This change would basically be an auto-immunity on a 90s cooldown per healer to cheese all the one-shot mechanics.

But reading through this thread, I see a lot of "I often use it with good intention, it kinda works, I've seen it used with good intentions but that one time someone annoyed me with it...!! It should be removed because of that".
Useful Rescue clearly outweighs the trolling but people want to see it removed because someone once annoyed them with it. Okay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flatbear

I was just in a run during which one of the healers (maybe both) continually used Rescue to pull a tank out of combat, then antagonized and gaslighted me when I called out this behaviour and demanded that it stop. When the tank himself indicated that the abuse was annoying, one of the healers said too bad, play a different game.

Beginning to side in favour of the people calling for changes to be made to this garbage.

And yes, I've reported the incident, but it won't carry any weight. We couldn't figure out which healer was doing it, or whether it was both alternately. I was only abused incidentally in defense of the person being Rescued away from mobs throughout the freaking dungeon.

Now I'll be wary and cynical every time I PUG something as tank, and I have two more tanks to level. Joy.

---

It's a shame that this particular experience made you wary / cynical whenever you want to PUG something as a tank. Leveling a job should be a pleasant experience, rather then having experiences like these turn you away from said jobs.

Since you are on the Aether Datacenter as well, i can help you out with leveling your tanks, by joining you as a healer. If you're interested, let me know. We should be able to work something out (time wise / through the PF).

I've only seen Rescue be used for its intended purpose ONCE.

And it was on me during a Copied Factory run, I was in an AOE, I was a BLM, I had just set down Ley Lines, I didn't have enough time to Aetherial Manipulation towards someone, so one of the healers pulled me over, then once it was safe, I electric slide(Between the Lines) right back. Felt good.

Any other time I've seen it used, it was either an accident, or a purposefully troll usage. I am overall indifferent to the skill and ultimately dont care what happens to it, the only time I will complain is when I see a player clearly getting annoyed by a Healers mis-use of the skill.

Yesterday I got Aurum Vale with all newbies.

I had to rescue so often to get them out of yellow piss.

Also ended up getting that other dungeon with the poison everywhere. Once again, at least a sprout tank I had to rescue during boss fight because loved to stay in poison.

I think it's useful.

Couple days ago I had to use Rescue to stop a tank from mass pulling. There's a very good reason why I stopped them, though: this tank couldn't hold hate. He'd do a Demon Slaughter (NO SLICE) and then run off without making sure they had hate on everything. So the myself (WHM) and the DPS would usually always have multiple mobs on us. Even when we were stacked on the tank. So I made the choice to Rescue the tank back to the mobs that were still running about. Tanks should not do big pulls until they know how to do a proper AoE rotation and also hold hate on everything.

I later learned that the Tank and two DPS were a FC pre-made; which would explain why neither of the DPS spoke up in party chat (only I said "please use AoE's" when I noticed they were doing a single target rotation amongst 5+ mobs. Oh yeah, this was in the level 80 dungeon, Anyder).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aldora

Since you are on the Aether Datacenter as well, i can help you out with leveling your tanks, by joining you as a healer. If you're interested, let me know. We should be able to work something out (time wise / through the PF).

---

That is amazingly kind--thank you! I am lucky in that my partner likes healing, so I'll probably be able to rely on him next time I level a tank--but your extremely generous offer is appreciated, regardless.

I don't know why we keep getting groups with grimly bored healers who yank him around like that. Never happened to me as DRK.

It seems reporting this stuff even as a witness gets the GMs' attention, though. At least there is that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coletergeist

Yesterday I got Aurum Vale with all newbies.

I had to rescue so often to get them out of yellow piss.

---

In Aurum Vale particularly, I always have the problem of ranged DPS trying to stay twenty leagues away from the action, so I have to beg them to get within group healing range. Some never do, and I WILL NOT chase them down. Should have just grabbed 'em, but it feels so rude to my sensibilities. XD

I dislike rescue because it doesn't work. The games built in lag doesn't support any abilities that have to do with movement like that. This isn't WoW, take it out of the game and give us something useful.

As a Tank main who has never played a healer, feel free to rescue me whenever you want