Please Allow 50's to Enter Ishgard w/o having completed MSQ

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Originally Posted by zx10r

Number 1 reason people buy expansion? To try out the new classes and level in new zones. Neither of those are possible with this expansion so no matter what anyone says this is the single most idiotic business decision a company can make. I am sure your precious "lore" will do you good when the number on purchases are abysmally low and they start decreasing development effort.

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Lol, if they havent played the game all classes and zones are new.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Lol, if they havent played the game all classes and zones are new.

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Reading comprehension, ever heard of it? Who says they are new? Lots of the player-base are players that left in 2.0 after they hit 50, I am sure they cant wait to grind fetch quests to play the game and try out new classes.

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Originally Posted by zx10r

Number 1 reason people buy expansion? To try out the new classes and level in new zones. Neither of those are possible with this expansion so no matter what anyone says this is the single most idiotic business decision a company can make. I am sure your precious "lore" will do you good when the number on purchases are abysmally low and they start decreasing development effort.

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Be sure to let me know if that happens (lol) Did you even read what you just posted? Just think about it for a few minutes.

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Originally Posted by zx10r

Reading comprehension, ever heard of it? Who says they are new? Lots of the player-base are players that left in 2.0 after they hit 50, I am sure they cant wait to grind fetch quests to play the game and try out new classes.

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You are speaking on behalf of the people who already hit 50 but haven't delved into 2.1 content. Fine, their prerogative.

Fortunately, these players are actually the ones set to benefit the MOST from Heavensward because of the changes to bonuses applied to all 2.1-2.55 MSQ. Gear will be handed to them on a silver platter, so no need to grind... anything, and they will actually enter Ishgard a few (possibly several) levels higher than the rest of us already done with 2.55.

Crymore, your thing isn't even a thing.

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Originally Posted by zx10r

Reading comprehension, ever heard of it? Who says they are new? Lots of the player-base are players that left in 2.0 after they hit 50, I am sure they cant wait to grind fetch quests to play the game and try out new classes.

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Whether they get the expansion or not, that content will still be new to them. No one's forcing you to buy the expansion right away, and the patch notes will explicitly state what's required to get the expansion content.
I really don't understand what the rush is. And if quests are such a problem, why would they be playing a Final Fantasy game? It's like booting minecraft up and getting annoyed that you have to mine and craft.

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Originally Posted by zx10r

Reading comprehension, ever heard of it? Who says they are new? Lots of the player-base are players that left in 2.0 after they hit 50, I am sure they cant wait to grind fetch quests to play the game and try out new classes.

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So they can't wait to grind fetch quests in order to unlock new fetch quests with different jobs?

For the love of the Twelve, there's only 100 lousy MSQ quests to do after you finish Praetorium. I did that in 2 and a half days because its not like they are LONG or HARD. Plus you open up Levi, Shiva and Snowcloak, Thornmarch, Chrysalis and Steps.

You get gil thrown at you in suitcases, as well as several materia IV rewards

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Originally Posted by zx10r

Reading comprehension, ever heard of it? Who says they are new? Lots of the player-base are players that left in 2.0 after they hit 50, I am sure they cant wait to grind fetch quests to play the game and try out new classes.

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Lol, I'm quite sure so many will be angry at all the content available to them now... too funny.
Also, Ninja will be new to them as well. Bet they will be so annoyed at all of the dungeons and conten between 2.1-2.5!
Oh wait, are the people you are talking about the few who will try the new classes for a week and then quit anyway, because you know, the only reason they bought it was the classes. I know thats what I look at when buying a game! "Whoa! This class is called Death Knight! So buying this game!"

"But Isgard! Think of the children!"

I had someone just today tell me it took them all of 1 1/2 days to do the entirety of the MSQ start to finish.

It's not a big deal. Gated content is not new. Heavensward is geared for level 50+ play. Suck it up and jump through the hoops.

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Originally Posted by Kanti

I had someone just today tell me it took them all of 1 1/2 days to do the entirety of the MSQ start to finish.

It's not a big deal. Gated content is not new. Heavensward is geared for level 50+ play. Suck it up and jump through the hoops.

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That person is either lying or needs to go to bed.

One and a half days? Probably skipped all the cutscenes, probably played as a tank to get quick queue times, were probably already level 50 (Legacy account. If not, then they did not sleep, eat, anything at all to hit level 50 in 1 day) and are most likely talking out of their butt.

Someone in this thread added on to what I said earlier that it took them 21 days, as a tank, to get the entire MSQ (and I think i90 stuff) done. One and a half days... think for a moment and realise what they most likely did to achieve that. Now think of a casual player who can only play for two-three hours a day.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Do not take this the wrong way, however: What work?

Simply put, the jobs are level 30 each. Thus, the requirement to unlocking them, likewise, should be a level 30 of Any job. The only "Work" people should be required to do in order to get access to the jobs is buying the expansion, clearing any pre-leveling required (Like we did for our base jobs), and completing a quest. At that point, it should be unlocked to them.


The things that should be locked behind MSQ:
- Story.
- MAYBE special areas, but not an entire expansion. Even FFXI knew this - you could get access to special high-level areas, but you were never gated from the other zones. Quite the contrary, many a time the game introduced areas specifically for lower-levels.
- Quests, due to level (I.E. DRK being a level 30 quest is accessible, but you can'd to the first quest in the zone because it's level 50 - out of your range)



Baiting with a level 30 job just seems cruel in its own way.

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Yoshi P has already stated that it will not always be this way with every expansion because 3, 4 or 5 story arcs down the line makes for way too much to go through just to get to new content.

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Originally Posted by zx10r

Number 1 reason people buy expansion? To try out the new classes and level in new zones. Neither of those are possible with this expansion so no matter what anyone says this is the single most idiotic business decision a company can make. I am sure your precious "lore" will do you good when the number on purchases are abysmally low and they start decreasing development effort.

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actually it's not. SE was doing just fine before HW was announced and i doubt they will go broke because a few people have an issue with having to complete the MSQ. and Yoshi already stated this will not be the norm of every expansion. and! they are tweaking 2.0 content so much that you are gonna fly through the MSQ anyway. so really. . .why all the special snowflakes? suck it up and grind it out b4 3.0 or breeze through it during 3.0.

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Originally Posted by zx10r

Reading comprehension, ever heard of it? Who says they are new? Lots of the player-base are players that left in 2.0 after they hit 50, I am sure they cant wait to grind fetch quests to play the game and try out new classes.

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kinda hard to see these patchers as part of the "player base" when they keep leaving because they are "bored" after they hit 50. or grind and spam all the shiney new content then leave again. if the goal is to hit it and quit it then maybe a mmorpg is not the game for them. so yeah, lets listen to all the players that hit 50 and quit when making these decisions over the players that keep a sub going because they actually like the game and can always find something to do. and no i am not including people who had to drop sub due to RL issues.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

I've lost count how many times in this thread alone that this false claim has been disproven because of the modifications to first time players' duty finder access.


They are when the fastest way to level.... is via story.

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And you have yet to prove folks will still run the stuff after release. Doesn't matter if they have priority or not if there aren't enough tanks and healers queueing.

I don't care about alts. I'm concerned with new 50s right around launch and the trials. I waited over an hour for a second tank for westwind before getting on the phone to call a buddy and go "yo, tank this for me".

Its only getting *worse*.

I think a thing a lot of the 'let us enter Ishgard without finishing the MSQ' are ignoring is that most of the content in Ishgard will require you to do MSQs to unlock anyway. The only things that would be open are access to the zones (and potentially not the flying mounts since they are apparently earned in the story) and the new Job Guilds. If players come back and skip all the patch stuff, they are still going to have to do MSQs anyway to progress through the expansion content. More over, most of that content will lack any sense story and context wise because they have missed out on major plot points.

The other thing people are forgetting about the instances, is they are on roulettes which will get a lot more popular soon. Why? Because they offer a tonne of EXP. For people wanting to level to 60 they will be daily routine. Combine that with the fact that they are changing the priority system to give people with their first time in a dungeon or trial priority in the DF and you'll probably see queue times still be quite reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

And you have yet to prove folks will still run the stuff after release. Doesn't matter if they have priority or not if there aren't enough tanks and healers queueing.

I don't care about alts. I'm concerned with new 50s right around launch and the trials. I waited over an hour for a second tank for westwind before getting on the phone to call a buddy and go "yo, tank this for me".

Its only getting *worse*.

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Lol, and you also ignored the part where you will be able to queue with less than the required amount, and summon companions to fill empty spots... but carry on.

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Originally Posted by Cian

Yoshi P has already stated that it will not always be this way with every expansion because 3, 4 or 5 story arcs down the line makes for way too much to go through just to get to new content.

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Doesn't really help the those coming into the game at 3.0. They will still have to go around and out of their way to complete not only an extra 20 levels of a job they might not be interested in - but also completing the MSQ as those jobs that they have no interest in.


Honestly, I only see benefits in allowing players to unlock jobs at level 30 instead of level 50 if the job itself is going to be level 30. For example. That's 20 levels of completing the dungouns leading up to level 50. 20 levels of playing as their job instead of as another job, and not just fate grinding - likely completing main scenario story to get there, whcih means they'll be using their skills in a meaningful way.

Instead, what you'll likely see is people clearing the MSQ as JobTheyHate#1, and then going back and unlocking the other job. Then they'll FateGrind those jobs to 50, without a clue what to do, and start entering the Ishgard/Heavensward content as the job they wanted to be all along. And when they have no idea what to do in level 50 dungouns because they grinded fates instead of learning their skills like a majority of Ninjas, I want people to remember that this was their preffered reason "FOR THEIR LORE."

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

And you have yet to prove folks will still run the stuff after release.

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Um, yes we have. Every single trial is in the 'trial roulette' category. Whenever people do their dailies, which most people I know do, they will be queued with people in the priority list unless there is nobody left in the priority list. Then they will be queued with people grinding the content.


This means that regardless of who is queuing up they will be matched up quickly. Also: queueing DF as a partial group will allow instant access in many cases.

The issue with the Ninja patch was that people were almost exclusively running MSQ as DPS. That is irrelevant now, as so many people will be leveling all three classes, and will have large XP incentive to regularly do the daily roulettes. Something that was meaningless to players already level capped in the past two years.

So yeah, it WILL get better.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Its only getting *worse*.

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This modification hasn't been applied yet...

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

They will still have to go around and out of their way to complete not only an extra 20 levels of a job they might not be interested in - but also completing the MSQ as those jobs that they have no interest in.

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HOW many times must you hear "MSQ is the fastest way to access Ishgard" before you realize they dramatically streamlined the process to eliminate any repeated grinding to catch up? Today it takes roughly eighteen cumulative hours to go from level 1 newbie to clearing Steps of Faith, WITH grinding. Heavensward gets more than double the XP AND i90+ gear as rewards. I would bet 9 hours is a fair measurement for those who want to rush the story in 3.0. So that would mean what, 4.5 hours if you are rushing from level 30?

If you can't accept 5 hours of work as a tradeoff for not putting in the work like the rest of us.... I think we're done here.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Instead, what you'll likely see is people clearing the MSQ as JobTheyHate#1

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There's 10 jobs right now. if they hate all of them, they are most certainly going to hate the next three. Tryharder.

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

Level and story gated content are not the same thing.

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The point is you have to work to get to were you want to go. No cheep ways t get by it. Gated or not.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Do not take this the wrong way, however: What work?

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The work to get into hw. I get what your saying and what not. But it's how it is. For example you had to buy expansions for wow to do the content that was added. Best I can say is don't buy the exspantion till you get to that point? New jobs and area would have to wait. The main story takes like a week to do or faster. Also hear exp and what not will be better when hw comes out. Getting through the storyline will be much fast then as well. This isn't a free to play game ether.

My guess is that Square-Enix will likely work to compress extraneous quests (shortening the Corrupted Crystal/Company of Heroes lines), adjust the flow of the MSQ to fit more smoothly into 1-50 (so that you, for example, are fighting Garuda or doing Castrum closer to level 30), and create solo instances or simple 4-man duties for the hard-mode primals. There's honestly a lot of cruft you could cut from the MSQ (mostly Moogle Mog and parts of Ramuh, some of the random Waking Sands/Rising Stones quests) without impacting the overall arc of the storyline.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Doesn't really help the those coming into the game at 3.0. They will still have to go around and out of their way to complete not only an extra 20 levels of a job they might not be interested in - but also completing the MSQ as those jobs that they have no interest in.


Honestly, I only see benefits in allowing players to unlock jobs at level 30 instead of level 50 if the job itself is going to be level 30. For example. That's 20 levels of completing the dungouns leading up to level 50. 20 levels of playing as their job instead of as another job, and not just fate grinding - likely completing main scenario story to get there, whcih means they'll be using their skills in a meaningful way.

Instead, what you'll likely see is people clearing the MSQ as JobTheyHate#1, and then going back and unlocking the other job. Then they'll FateGrind those jobs to 50, without a clue what to do, and start entering the Ishgard/Heavensward content as the job they wanted to be all along. And when they have no idea what to do in level 50 dungouns because they grinded fates instead of learning their skills like a majority of Ninjas, I want people to remember that this was their preffered reason "FOR THEIR LORE."

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If that's going to happen with fresh 50s, its going to happen anyway with people who are already 50 and are changing to a new job. Frankly in the number of people who will be causing this problem, new players will barely be a drop in the bucket.

If we really wanted to do away with this issue then they shouldn't be adding any new Jobs at all.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Well, FFXI did a pretty good job at throwing the lore out of the window to allow this.
Not sure if it's a good example to follow :p

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Shame there was a lot of zones you couldn't access until you had progressed far enough in the expansions story. Sea, Sky, Walk of echoes to start with.

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

SWTOR or WoW does not gate a new area behind content completion. It was tied to being max level.

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Last I checked we were talking about FFXIV. What other MMOs did has no relevance.

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

Can't. You know why? Like the majority of new players this is my first experience with the FF series. Which seems to be something the vast majority of naysayers in this thread seem to forget.

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This is the problem, too many players can't approach a new game without basing their expectations on what they played before. Approach each game as something different and new instead of looking as a continuation or even the same as previous games that you played. When you start to see it as its own game, with its own rules. Well, you might start to enjoy it for what it is, rather than what it isn't.

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Originally Posted by Galdous

You will complain about nothing to do after you complain about it takes to long to do stuff.

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People complain about anything, if there is nothing to complain about, they'l complain there's nothing to complain about or make something up XD

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Because indeed, for everyone, it takes quite a bit of time to complete the MSQ, its not by any means fast.

Take it from me, someone that agrees with the content being locked behind the story: your argument of the MSQ being fast to complete is just plain incorrect.

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Yet it took me 2 weeks to level up my SCH alt to 50 and complete all MSQ upto 2.4, which was prior to 2.5 going live. 2 weeks in an MMO you generally play for a substantial amount of time is nothing. Its half the free month.

Take it from me, someone that agrees with the content being locked behind the story: your argument of the MSQ being fast to complete is just plain correct. and will be even faster with 3.0 and changes to levelling 50 and below.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Doesn't really help the those coming into the game at 3.0. They will still have to go around and out of their way to complete not only an extra 20 levels of a job they might not be interested in - but also completing the MSQ as those jobs that they have no interest in.


Honestly, I only see benefits in allowing players to unlock jobs at level 30 instead of level 50 if the job itself is going to be level 30. For example. That's 20 levels of completing the dungouns leading up to level 50. 20 levels of playing as their job instead of as another job, and not just fate grinding - likely completing main scenario story to get there, whcih means they'll be using their skills in a meaningful way.

Instead, what you'll likely see is people clearing the MSQ as JobTheyHate#1, and then going back and unlocking the other job. Then they'll FateGrind those jobs to 50, without a clue what to do, and start entering the Ishgard/Heavensward content as the job they wanted to be all along. And when they have no idea what to do in level 50 dungouns because they grinded fates instead of learning their skills like a majority of Ninjas, I want people to remember that this was their preffered reason "FOR THEIR LORE."

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so being inconvenienced for a couple of days is worth all this complaining? SE is shoving people through with the 2.0 changes coming at 3.0. way more xp, some required content pre 3.0 will no longer be tied to the MSQ, higher lvl gear drops in dungeons, more incentives for older players to do lower lvl content. yet there is still all this complaining and butthurt. you know what? i am not happy about having to "unlock" winds to fly instead of hoping on my flying mount right out of the gate and flying. . .yet i will suck it up and do whatever SE has laid out for me to be able to fly. i will not be ranting on the forums about the unfairness of it all. you people acting like SE said you had to clear MSQ, all coils, all dungeons, all primals and all Hildy quests. . .that's the level of crying going on.

Quote Originally Posted by Tuathaa View Post
SWTOR or WoW does not gate a new area behind content completion. It was tied to being max level.

Which you still had to grind/work at to get to. The thread is a complaint that you have to work to get a reward.

All these WoW players need to go back to their second-rate game and get their handouts and quit whining here, really.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

HOW many times must you hear "MSQ is the fastest way to access Ishgard" before you realize they dramatically streamlined the process to eliminate any repeated grinding to catch up? Today it takes roughly eighteen cumulative hours to go from level 1 newbie to clearing Steps of Faith, WITH grinding. Heavensward gets more than double the XP AND i90+ gear as rewards. I would bet 9 hours is a fair measurement for those who want to rush the story in 3.0. So that would mean what, 4.5 hours if you are rushing from level 30?

If you can't accept 5 hours of work as a tradeoff for not putting in the work like the rest of us.... I think we're done here.

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How many times must you hear that even streamlined, that's a LOT of time to invest into getting to the ONE class you want, and a good number of people might lose their interest by that point?


Let's also not kid ourselves here - Not everyone's going to skip the story and try to zergrush to 50 using the most efficient leveling method. At 2.0, I had the option to transfer my character in, but I instead chose to start a new character (originally on Cactuar) and leveled him to 50, enjoying the story, sidequests, etc...

Also, why does your number randomly decrease? It goes from "18 hours to 50 and Steps of Faith" to "5 hours of work"... Where did the other 13 go? Or are these made-up numbers?

Honestly, I wouldn't mind finding out how long it takes a -new- learning player to get to 50 / steps of faith as a good comparison, but I think we lack the access to that information. Shame.

You may say it "Only takes 18 hours", which, if someone plays an hour a day, is slightly short of 3 weeks just to get to a point where they can unlock a new job that they want to play. Some people might lose interest in the game by that point.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

There's 10 jobs right now. if they hate all of them, they are most certainly going to hate the next three. Tryharder.

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Fun Fact: Not everyone likes to play multiple jobs. I know plenty of people that only play one job because it's the "One they enjoy." Tryhardertolookcool. Then go getgud. :P

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Originally Posted by Cian

so being inconvenienced for a couple of days is worth all this complaining? SE is shoving people through with the 2.0 changes coming at 3.0. way more xp, some required content pre 3.0 will no longer be tied to the MSQ, higher lvl gear drops in dungeons, more incentives for older players to do lower lvl content. yet there is still all this complaining and butthurt. you know what? i am not happy about having to "unlock" winds to fly instead of hoping on my flying mount right out of the gate and flying. . .yet i will suck it up and do whatever SE has laid out for me to be able to fly. i will not be ranting on the forums about the unfairness of it all. you people acting like SE said you had to clear MSQ, all coils, all dungeons, all primals and all Hildy quests. . .that's the level of crying going on.

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Yes, it is worth the complaints. Do you know why?

Because positive discussion that could potentially grab SE's ear and let them hear the complaints and concerns of customers - no different than you or I - is never a bad thing. Laying back and "Accepting things as they are" is a pretty pathetic thing to do, and I'm not the type to just roll over and show my stomach.

More than that, I genuinly enjoy positive discussion. When someone gives a very good, fair point back, I love pinging the ideas back and forth and seeing how a conversation can evolve.

"Winds" for flying mounts are different. They're not gating you off from part of the content, they're built into it, like the steps of the "Coil of Bahamut" to get to the next step. You're not being prevented from going to the zone and exploring because you haven't completed an abritrary quest from the old content of the game, you can go there and work on it right away if you want. And it's level-appropriate.

Now, I would love to ask where this discussion of high-level gear drops coming from dungouns is from? If so I must applaud that, and concede the point that at the very least, the process post-50 will be eased. However, even still, I can not agree with making a character go to 50 to complete MSQ to play the level 30 job they want to play as.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

If that's going to happen with fresh 50s, its going to happen anyway with people who are already 50 and are changing to a new job. Frankly in the number of people who will be causing this problem, new players will barely be a drop in the bucket.

If we really wanted to do away with this issue then they shouldn't be adding any new Jobs at all.

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Well, not going to call anyone a "drop in the bucket" I'm afraid. We'll have to see how things play out to see if there are a lot of players that embody my concerns for the early level-50 to 60 days of Heavensward. Sadly we can wait and see, but it's a very valid concern.

Getting rid of new jobs though would be a disservice to the game :P There are so many jobs that people want to see because to some people, this is sort of like a Final Fantasy Tactics MMO in some ways. Getting to make your characters and build him up to be what you want to be. Can't really think of the main-final fantasies that gave you that level of freedome to kinda "Play how you want" save X-2... Which is still one of the guiltiest pleasures I have to date.

Regardless, I do hope things work out for the best, but I believe you missed my point - which was the logical progression of how people focusing on those new jobs will go. Get a class/job to 50 and be good at it from playing it -> Switch to Dark Knight -> FATE to 50 -> Be bad at Dark Knight post-50, in the shortest and sweetest of words. Mind you, the best of players will always research and work at learning their skills, and those will never change. But I believe that going through MSQ as your preferred job does train you to a degree that it helps slower to warm up players and aids in a learning curve compared to FATE's to 50.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Not enough tanks/heals, that's who.

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Players will be levelling up the new jobs in 3.0.... So there will be DRKs and AST for tanking and healing. So there may even be an increase in tanks and healers for new players going through the MSQ dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Players will be levelling up the new jobs in 3.0.... So there will be DRKs and AST for tanking and healing. So there may even be an increase in tanks and healers for new players going through the MSQ dungeons.

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There is a strong case to be made for us doing roullettes more aggressively as well--since they'll be granting EXP again.

[QUOTE/]Regardless, I do hope things work out for the best, but I believe you missed my point - which was the logical progression of how people focusing on those new jobs will go. Get a class/job to 50 and be good at it from playing it -> Switch to Dark Knight -> FATE to 50 -> Be bad at Dark Knight post-50, in the shortest and sweetest of words. Mind you, the best of players will always research and work at learning their skills, and those will never change. But I believe that going through MSQ as your preferred job does train you to a degree that it helps slower to warm up players and aids in a learning curve compared to FATE's to 50.[/QUOTE]

Why the hell would you FATE to level 60 on DRK? Hello, tank instaqueues?

Probably if SE makes it so that the new jobs requires specific lvl 50 jobs to learn then they probably won't be complaining about Ishgard being gated behind content. But then again.. they will be complaining to demand that those jobs be available right on the get go the moment they make a new character. Well that might happen in the next expansion. Anyway having the new area be gated away is really not an issue because it's to keep the story experience more in line with ARR.. like some pointed out, even if it is not gated, there really isn't much new players could do in there since there will be literally no quest for them to do there. At least SE aren't taking any pre-heavens ward story/events away even after the launch so everyone gets to experience what transpired before Ishgard is opened to the masses. Unlike a certain other game that creates pre-expansion events only for a limited time before becoming a feat of strength (woops) and new players who just started playing the game basically misses out on all those pre-expansion events and going right into the new content totally clueless about everything which makes for zero immersion and knowing no head nor tail about the lore. Oh but wait, if you're aren't even playing for the story but go in with the "OMG-GIMME-MOAR-DUNGEON-RAID-COOL-LEWTS-MOAR-LEWTS-OMAGAD-LEWTS" mindset.. then maybe don't play this game or in general don't even play MMOs at all.

Go play Diablo.. shoo.

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Originally Posted by RubyShoes

Actually people don't. Traditionally MMO expansions attract new players and traditionally game companies want and need those new players. This expansion gates off content and unless they either trim the MSQ's down or every class starts at 30 new players face a huge grind. That's a shame as the more players we have in game the better for everyone.

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All MMO expansions have gated access based on level. Also you are seriously exageratting to try and prove a point (hint it doesn't work, it just makes you sound desperate). New players will have to level to 50 to access the new content to start with, and their levelling will naturally take them along the MSQ path, so it will be natural progression.

But sdmit it, you arent arguing for the new players, you are arguing for yourself.

As what gives any of you the right to argue for others you have never met, have no idea how they will see the set MSQ progression for unlocking content? Yet, because it affects you in some way, you try and play the sympathy card by dangling "new players" in your arguments. When we all know that is bullcrap and reason players are arguing against it is for solely selfish reasons.

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Originally Posted by XxSliphxX

Short answer. Yes. Let them start at lvl 1. New players don't give a flying f*k about the story sorry. They want to play the game. This game contrary to popular belief is not hard. Tedious yes. Hard no.

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So every new player has the exact same attitude as you? And you have the gall to call someone else elitist?.... Egocentric at its finest.

Would you play an open world FFA PVP game and complain theres PvP in it? Which is what you are doing with a storycentric MMO.

Playing a game you refer to as tedious instead of something you don't find tedious is the height of stupidity.

any mmo you play that has been around even for 1 year theres going to be catchup i really dont see the problem with this its a fun story to play a part in and really the only losers in this scenario are gil sellers and rmt i look forward to some peace and quiet from the constant tells lol

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Originally Posted by Hieral

Why the hell would you FATE to level 60 on DRK? Hello, tank instaqueues?

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Once rested EXP runs out, running dungouns starts to slow down in terms of EXP gain, and FATE grinding becomes more beneficial as it gives you not only decent kill/mob in a good party, but also rewards you with gil and exp at the end every time.

And let's not neglect, that's only for DRK/AST. I feel for those Mechanists who will basically be grinding fates solo while que'ing for duty finder. The job wasn't even the important part in my statement, it was moreso about having people be trained on what they want to play as.

When I leveled my PLD to 50 and lacked Bonus, I relied on FATE's. Mind you, I did most my leveling pre-themassive dungoun buff with most jobs so I can't recall if I had that option or not (been a while), but even still, I think that you're overestimating how lucrative the dungouns can be compared to an 8-man fategrind party burning things down.

It's also a double-edged sword on both of them. FATE parties can take too long to kill some fates when there's a lot of weaker members. Meanwhile dungouns suffer from idiots. I've seen people get hung up on a boss for 20+ minutes (multiple tries) and sadly I'm compelled to stay and try to teach instead of thinking about myself and ditching out.

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Originally Posted by Raist

with lots of expansions, and still has one more big one planned (think it is due in 2016 or something?).

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Rhapsodies of Vanadiel is a 3 part content release which will be FFXIs final content, first part went live, 2nd and 3rd will be relased over this year. Only info about 2016 is that they are dropping support for the consoles and willbe PC only.They will cantinue with bug and balance patchews, but no new content after RoV.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

How many times must you hear that even streamlined, that's a LOT of time to invest into getting to the ONE class you want, and a good number of people might lose their interest by that point?

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Um, too bad that they can't spend a little time doing fresh content just so they can gain access to more fresh content? Their choice. If they would rather play a sandbox game, then this game is not designed with them in mind, nor will it EVER be.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Let's also not kid ourselves here - Not everyone's going to skip the story and try to zergrush to 50 using the most efficient leveling method. At 2.0, I had the option to transfer my character in, but I instead chose to start a new character (originally on Cactuar) and leveled him to 50, enjoying the story, sidequests, etc...

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Funny, the 'zergrush' method IS doing story in Heavensward. So the point is moot.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Also, why does your number randomly decrease? It goes from "18 hours to 50 and Steps of Faith" to "5 hours of work"... Where did the other 13 go? Or are these made-up numbers?

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18 hours is based on several accounts in this thread, if you read back. and that is at patch 2.55.
Itemized, that comes down to 9 hours story, 9 hours grind.

Yoshida's statement was that MSQ will eliminate the need to grind for XP or gear, because MSQ will provide more than two times as much XP AND ilvl 90+ gear, allowing you to easily coast to Ishgard explicitly doing MSQ.
Grind eliminated, level 1 to 50 (with i90+ gear) would then be 9 hours flat.

Your special scenario ruled out needing to level from 1 to 30, so I did an estimate and said half as much time is needed to catch up for a level 30 player. So 4.5 hours.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Honestly, I wouldn't mind finding out how long it takes a -new- learning player to get to 50 / steps of faith as a good comparison, but I think we lack the access to that information. Shame.

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Don't worry, we will have a large influx of data beginning the 23rd. And we are sure to get plenty of those newbies being carried by friends. Which is also a shame, as they won't learn jobs properly, but I digress.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

You may say it "Only takes 18 hours", which, if someone plays an hour a day, is slightly short of 3 weeks just to get to a point where they can unlock a new job that they want to play. Some people might lose interest in the game by that point.

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And if they play 20 minutes a day it will take two months. But neither of these time=progress sums really mean anything. To bring it up is just a distraction. People decide on whatever time they can commit, saying someone who plays less is owed more advantages is just plain silly.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Fun Fact: Not everyone likes to play multiple jobs. I know plenty of people that only play one job because it's the "One they enjoy." Tryhardertolookcool. Then go getgud. :P

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Fun fact: If you want DRK, you had better be leveling MRD and GLA or you will suck. I mean. suck. No provoke on a tank? really? No extra cooldowns for survival? Skipping to DRK would be suicidal and punishing other players trying to "deal with you".

You would WANT to level a tank if your goal is DRK. You would likewise want to level a healer if AST is your goal, or LNC/ARC if you want Machinist. These really are advanced jobs in the sense that they lean on what you learned in the other jobs of the same role.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

And let's not neglect, that's only for DRK/AST. I feel for those Mechanists who will basically be grinding fates solo while que'ing for duty finder. The job wasn't even the important part in my statement, it was moreso about having people be trained on what they want to play as. .

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If the player were smart and wanted fast leveling for MAC, they would level it to 50 and THEN begin the 3.0 MSQ. Yoshida already said the new MSQ will be more than sufficient to get a class from 50 to 60. So there's that.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Fun fact: If you want DRK, you had better be leveling MRD and GLA or you will suck. I mean. suck. No provoke/flash on an MP based tank? really? No extra cooldowns for survival? Skipping to DRK would be suicidal and punishing other players trying to "deal with you".

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Fun fact: DRK will have it's own version of flash :D

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Originally Posted by Yuri_Hyuga

Somebody mentioned before that they like to play this game to be a crafter or gatherer... and that up until Heavensward, they could effectively do so with very minimal combat required... forcing them through MSQ (in doing so, forcing them to play a combat class deep into lvl. 50 content)... I highly dislike that direction.

As well, not everybody plays this game for the story. It's great that you want to push the story SE, but this being a themepark MMO & offering many avenues of play... I think you should offer an alternative way into Ishgard for 50's.

I know there are story-ties to getting into Ishgard... but other ways can be made... example:

A gatherer in search of legendary Ishgardian spoils is sent on an epic voyage to Ishgard through alternate means, etc.

Please give us a minor sidequest arc to get into Ishgard from 50 w/o MSQ entirety fulfillment.

This will only benefit the game, newcomers, & recent players. Win-win-win.

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I disagree with this completely. People keep on trying to clamor for Yoshi-P and team to abandon the original game, ARR, for some reason and this seems to be another case.

Why is Ishgard open? Because of the main story quest you feel people don't need to play. This is a Final Fantasy game. It is story-driven. Heck I don't even hear a call to abandon the story so much even in MMOs that aren't story driven. It perplexes me. It wouldn't make sense for people who haven't completed the main story arch to even be allowed in Ishgard. Your "alternative means," though it is only an example, doesn't hold up very well as an explanation for allowing people in considering how they rarely let strangers in. Players entering Ishgard is an extreme exception granted by the Holy Si due to the ARR story culmination.

The development has made it known from day one they want everyone to have at least one battle class/job to progress through the main story and unlock content. They haven't shied away from the fact and I don't think it is realistic to expect them to do so now. Your asking more than allowing access to Ishgard for crafting classes but a change in the games philosophy and progression.

Your reasoning for why level 50s doesn't make a ton of sense to me. First the main story quests won't take a ton of time to get caught up on and are an integral part of the game and everything leading up toward the expansion. Two, the main story quests don't require a ton of combat and the combat they do make you do is very easy compared to other endgame combat like dungeons or raids. With this in mind, I don't get where you are getting "forcing them to play a combat class deep into lvl. 50 content." Three, the design team already has a system they will be implementing to help new and returning players get caught up not only in story but also in gear while still allowing them to experience the content and get acclimated to what is required in trickier content like dungeons. By just letting player bypass the story and older content, not only are you abandoning this part of the game but you are making it increasingly difficult for those who want to experience it to. The set up right now funnels players through content in order to unlock further progression. This guarantees that new players and those who want to experience the content, which I believe are in the majority, will have people to do it with and won't feel major pressure that they HAVE to get caught up to the end game content right away. And finally, SE requiring you to complete old content before jumping into the expansion isn't something new or novel. Pretty much every MMO runs the same way. The only difference might be something like WoW which has been out for 10+ years and has had 5 expansions worth of content to get through. This game is less than 2 years old! Far cry from the need to streamline content.

In closer, I feel you are mistaken. Completing the main story quests is in no way a deviation from the precedent set forth and communicated by the design team on how to unlock and progress through the game. The combat is still minimal (Have you completed the main story quest to know this isn't the case?). As you yourself admitted this is a Final Fantasy Theme Park MMO. The story is an integral part to it and from the start it has been the way to unlock content (remember unlocking airship travel way back when?). You should've known when you started playing that this is the way they are going to run the game. I'm not saying don't voice your opinion or to play another game, but realize that this shouldn't be some new revelation to you and you shouldn't expect them to deviate too much from it. What you are proposing won't help the game in the long run but harm it. It will cause players to enter higher level content unprepared, make it harder for the people who want to enjoy the story to, and most importantly take this game in a direction that isn't in-line with its predecessor numbered Final Fantasy titles. I encourage you to consider what I have said and go back and read/watch Letters from the Producer Live. Think again about the plan they have for this game and if it is the type of game you want to play still. I can't stress enough they have been upfront from the start about leveling at least one battle job throughout the game and that the main scenario is how you progress and unlock things.

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Originally Posted by Onikimaru

Fun fact: DRK will have it's own version of flash :D

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Fair enough, but that doesn't rule out the very obvious function of crossclass abilities.