Does instant transportation effect game immersion?

Nevermind, read it too fast.

What exactly didn't I answer?

Me: I think teleporting excessively is bad for the scope of the game world.

Crica: But not teleporting is so slow. How about you can just walk everywhere and I will teleport.

Me: But then you are at an advantage.

Crica: So? I wouldn't care if you are at an advantage *shifty eyes*


Everyone should have to play by the same rules. And at present, the balance of convenience and "immersion" has not been struck. Sorry. So when Chocobos and airships are implemented, they will need to restrict anima usage or else the world will continue to feel even smaller than it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by User201109011315

Me: I think teleporting excessively is bad for the scope of the game world.

Crica: But not teleporting is so slow. How about you can just walk everywhere and I will teleport.

Me: But then you are at an advantage.

---

What advantage?

Me having an advantage implies you do not have access to the same options as I do.

You have access to the same options as I do.

And I never said I want to teleport because it's faster, I said I want to teleport because not doing so would be "un-fun".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by User201109011315

Me: I think teleporting excessively is bad for the scope of the game world.

Crica: But not teleporting is so slow. How about you can just walk everywhere and I will teleport.

Me: But then you are at an advantage.

Crica: So? I wouldn't care if you are at an advantage *shifty eyes*


Everyone should have to play by the same rules. And at present, the balance of convenience and "immersion" has not been struck. Sorry. So when Chocobos and airships are implemented, they will need to restrict anima usage or else the world will continue to feel even smaller than it is.

---

And like was stated earlier people who travel fast will start to force the people who do enjoy airplanes to travel fast with them.

This game should have made everyone walk and only allowed 1 transportation per day.

Yeah, I said it.

Anyways I'm going to immerse myself in jogging. Wish there was a skip button for that.

No wait, I actually like putting the time and effort into gaining muscle and acquiring a lean physique.

I appreciate it a lot more. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jobeto-Rin

And like was stated earlier people who travel fast will start to force the people who do enjoy airplanes to travel fast with them.

---

Incorrect.

Players who enjoy fast travel will group together, and players who enjoy slow travel will group together.

I wouldn't even play the game for you to group with me if there was not fast travel in the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jobeto-Rin

Anyways I'm going to immerse myself in jogging. Wish there was a skip button for that.

No wait, I actually like putting the time and effort into gaining muscle and acquiring a lean physique.

I appreciate it a lot more. :P

---

There would be many more worthwhile things I could do with the muscle and lean physique if I did not have to waste time acquiring it.

Chocobo =
1. Get there fast without teleporting
2. Fun and enjoyable aspect
3. Happy music

Teleporting =
1. Get there NAOW!
2. Allows groups to do a large amount of things in a short amount of time
3. Convenient for teleporting to and from a city for repairs whilst in the middle of a leve etc.

Running =
1. Get to admire the scenery
2. Allows for plenty of time to chat in an LS inbetween doing things
3. Best way to save anima in case you do need to teleport for some reason in the future

Downside to running:
Person 1: "Hey, we're gonna go do a dungeon, wanna come?"
Person 2: "Sure, just give me 20 minutes to run there"
Person 1: "Nevermind"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Konachibi

Chocobo =
1. Get there fast without teleporting
2. Fun and enjoyable aspect
3. Happy music

Airship =
1. Get there fast without teleporting
2. Get to admire the scenery
3. Fun and enjoyable aspect
4. Happy music
5. save anima in case you do need to teleport for some reason in the future

Teleporting =
1. Get there NAOW!
2. Allows groups to do a large amount of things in a short amount of time
3. Convenient for teleporting to and from a city for repairs whilst in the middle of a leve etc.

Running =
1. Get to admire the scenery
2. Allows for plenty of time to chat in an LS inbetween doing things
3. Best way to save anima in case you do need to teleport for some reason in the future

Downside to running:
Person 1: "Hey, we're gonna go do a dungeon, wanna come?"
Person 2: "Sure, just give me 20 minutes to run there"
Person 1: "Nevermind"

---

It seems you have forgotten to complete your list there, or was that intentional?
I've added in the missing part.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gennosuke

It seems you have forgotten to complete your list there, or was that intentional?
I've added in the missing part.

---

Ah whoops my bad.

Thanks for fixing (b'.')b

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Konachibi

Ah whoops my bad.

Thanks for fixing (b'.')b

---

No prob, just edited it slightly now to clarify further.
Your welcome :rolleyes:

Indeed.

Note the WITHOUT!!!!

I've already decided I'm just gonna ride chocobos, I'll teleport if I absolutely must get somewhere quickly for reasons that would justify using 3 whole anima.

If the zones weren't all copy and paste I would say yeah it ruins immersion, BUT in any game you eventually see everything anyway and so transportation becomes a must. I can't tell you how many times I have run out of Anima and needed to walk a long way to my next destination and I just logged and called it a day. I think the Boat trip is to long and holds no fun or excitement. Now if they put special fish to catch or maybe some gil betting games etc it might be worth the long ride.

BEHOLD! Justified teleporting!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Konachibi

BEHOLD! Justified teleporting!

---

lol +1million internets

Guys...why don't you just watch the cutscene at your leisure, but skip it when playing in groups.

You have the option and you can play to meet your needs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azurymber

lol +1million internets

---

*bows*

Thank you.

Amazing what you can string together to end a 62 page thread arguement using just a bit of google searching and some photoshop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gramul

Guys...why don't you just watch the cutscene at your leisure, but skip it when playing in groups.

You have the option and you can play to meet your needs.

---

NONONONONO NO!!!! You playing a different way then me is KILLING MY IMMERSION!!!!! Just because it be best logicly to have both options to make both sides of this debate happy DOES NOT MEAN I WANT IT!!! I want YOU to walk because it makes MY game time better while at the sametime making yours worse!!!!!!

/s

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DNO

NONONONONO NO!!!! You playing a different way then me is KILLING MY IMMERSION!!!!! Just because it be best logicly to have both options to make both sides of this debate happy DOES NOT MEAN I WANT IT!!! I demand YOU to walk because it makes MY game time better while at the sametime making your worse!!!!!!

/s

---

Fixed it for you (b'.')b

I don't think it ruins immersion ..teleports have been working just fine.. just use what works for you and let others have the same option^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Konachibi

Fixed it for you (b'.')b

---

hahahah whoops your correct lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jobeto-Rin

And like was stated earlier people who travel fast will start to force the people who do enjoy airplanes to travel fast with them.

---

If you make airship content that is group focused, and another option that is used for "just transportation" this negates this criticism, as there would be no reason to skip the "ride" as the point in riding it is group based content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gennosuke

It seems you have forgotten to complete your list there, or was that intentional?
I've added in the missing part.

---

Except you didn't fix it correctly. You could choose an express option or the longer option.

Concept can be seen in the thread below:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Content-Ideas.

This sums it all up pretty well too

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Konachibi

Chocobo =
1. Get there fast without teleporting
2. Fun and enjoyable aspect
3. Happy music

Airship =
1. Choose to engage in airship based content with a group.
2. Choose to utilize the instant travel function at the loss of gil
3. Get to admire the scenery (with the cruiser ship option)
4. Fun and enjoyable aspect
5. Happy music
6. save anima in case you do need to teleport for some reason in the future

Teleporting =
1. Get there NAOW!
2. Allows groups to do a large amount of things in a short amount of time
3. Convenient for teleporting to and from a city for repairs whilst in the middle of a leve etc.

Running =
1. Get to admire the scenery
2. Allows for plenty of time to chat in an LS inbetween doing things
3. Best way to save anima in case you do need to teleport for some reason in the future

Downside to running:
Person 1: "Hey, we're gonna go do a dungeon, wanna come?"
Person 2: "Sure, just give me 20 minutes to run there"
Person 1: "Nevermind"

---

Future Airship Content Ideas

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Konachibi

Chocobo =
1. Get there fast without teleporting
2. Fun and enjoyable aspect
3. Happy music
4. Customisable
5. Personalised method of travel
6. Show off the chocobo you spent days breeding

Airship =
1. Choose to engage in airship based content with a group.
2. Choose to utilize the instant travel function at the loss of gil
3. Get to admire the scenery (with the cruiser ship option)
4. Fun and enjoyable aspect
5. Happy music
6. save anima in case you do need to teleport for some reason in the future

Teleporting =
1. Get there NAOW!
2. Allows groups to do a large amount of things in a short amount of time
3. Convenient for teleporting to and from a city for repairs whilst in the middle of a leve etc.

Running =
1. Get to admire the scenery
2. Allows for plenty of time to chat in an LS inbetween doing things
3. Best way to save anima in case you do need to teleport for some reason in the future

Downside to running:
Person 1: "Hey, we're gonna go do a dungeon, wanna come?"
Person 2: "Sure, just give me 20 minutes to run there"
Person 1: "Nevermind"

---

Future Chocobo Ideas Thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Konachibi

This sums it all up pretty well too

---

ROFL SO EPIC

can we just end this thread now :x Konachibi has pretty well won

It popped into my head and I couldn't resist :D

My response to Jobeto-Rin is in blue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jobeto-Rin

I couldn't do all that quote stuff so I just bold my original quote and red is Rhomagus response.

"So, ultimately at the nadir, isn't every last one of us immersed?" Yes to some extent


To some extent?
You are either immersed/involved or not. Your playing the game or your not. Period
There is no gray. You are still being immersed into it. We all are being immersed, the only difference is our level of it. That is the point being made.Yep, but that makes it objective. That means that you can definitely say that someone is immersed if they are involving themselves in any way with the content. If they are not involved with the content, they have no immersion whatsoever. These are objective statements. When I said "to an extent" I was referring to the individual levels in which a person can be immersed. I think everyone in the thread was referring to the immersion point/level after the point of login.

"Just by choosing to log in there is a level of immersion that is required of the user, but that's the base of it."

There you said it for me. That's all I needed to read. Any level of immersion is now subjective.Yes, level is subjective, not whether or not someone is or isn't, you can make a factual statement about whether or not someone is or isn't immersed. You can't really make a factual quantifiable statement about their own individual level of immersion.

"Only the level of it and feelings are" The level of it and feelings are. I don't think only though. As some people don't move beyond the "hook"..

Just because the "hook" wasn't enjoyable enough, does not mean they're not immersed. It means they're not enjoying the immersion that the game "hook" provides.If they log off and never play again, they are not immersed. That is what's subjective.When referencing the level of immersion after the login. We are being immersed into FFXIV, regardless.Not if we're not playing and not thinking about it. the level of it depends on the person.I agree. Therefore reducing things to accommodate for the people who are less immersed is taking away from the people who are.Absolutely incorrect. Options on airship rides is an example,Not for showing how immersion can be retained for those who want it. because traveling is important to immersion.As important as a sleep sequence in a film. As important as what a dog is thinking in a country far away in a book where the plot revolves around two young lovers. As important as a news anchors opinion when getting news information. As important as leopard print seats in your automobile. As important as the toppings you prefer on your pizza. As important as the color of your box of pop tarts. As important as the type of shoes you where.... when you're dealing with subjective content one person can assign a level of importance to another person's opinion. They can accommodate for them by providing options that fulfill their needs. Explained below.

"Love or lump your version of immersion," Not to be off topic but I found this sentence beautifully poetic. I don't understand the phrase "love or lump" but I'll assume that it's akin to "love or loathe"

Yes, it's equivalent to that, lol thank you. I'm into poetry and have intermittent urges to rhyme. They overtake me at times.

"who have a higher level of immersion than most, and reducing our overall fun and experience."
But you aren't them. You can be only you. Only you can experience your experiences.

The same can be said about you and your experiences. If I can't speak for others, how can you? Because when it comes to your complaints, they've already been addressed. You have a lore backed reasoning for instant travel. You have reasons for airship content in "Future Airship Content Ideas" thread. You have a risk/reward scenario attached to each choice, further enhancing interactivity. It's as if you are asking for a red car. I give you a blue car and someone else a green car, and you complain that someone else has a green car. You aren't going to please everyone 100% of the time, but it makes no sense to not please people when you have the ability to do so.

"Travel means traversing distances, recognizing and feeling distance substantiates massiveness."
But it's wholly unnecessary to completely base your immersion on it.

Yes it is necessary!See the sleep scene metaphor. In order to feel distance you have to travel it.Then I'd argue it's not big enough. See the Africa/Madagascar metaphor, but that's not feasible to ask, nor required. Movement is needed to justify going somewhere.Not in Hydaelyn where you already have a lore mechanic that explains this. See the Star Trek metaphor. No shortcuts.There are already shortcuts. In all mediums. You take away a vital component to making an imaginary world large.Not when that imaginary world already includes a lore explanation for instantaneous travel. If you see a long long long hallway and a door at the end, your probably going to think, "damn thats a long ass hallway."Keep the hallway. I've never advocated for getting rid of the hallway. So you walk and you walk and you walk and you walk until arrival. That walking substantiates it, not only in your mind but also body wise, that you went somewhere because it took time to get there.In the real world. In a fantasy world where instantaneous travel is a part of the lore this is wholly unnecessary. Now if you see a button on the wall that says skip, press it and then your at the door. More than likely your going to be like "Well damn, that wasn't too far".I'll look behind me and say, "Whoa! I traveled that far. Especially if I could traverse that distance by foot if I so choosed. It's the people who literally run from coast to coast in the United States. Sure anyone can just drive, that doesn't hurt their achievement at all. They applaud their achievement because they chose to run. Even if they chose to run one year should we not allow them to own a vehicle when they are in their 60's and are unable to make the trip? The necessity, the need, the requirement to move long distances justifies massiveness.Wrong, the existence of the long distance justifies massiveness, not the traversal thereof. Without it there it remains only a mirage.If the distance is still there it's still there. That's messed up a virtual world mirage?Except that it hasn't. It's still there. This is an objective statement. I'm not advocating to get rid of the distance. Only the means to traverse it more efficiently and retain the option to experience it. Jesus.Is dead.

As shown by another poster in this thread. We don't watch a character sleep for 8 hours.

There are different ways to immerse someone in a game, that is a different type of immersion tact. It's not affected by airship rides. They're gameplay is effected. Their real life is affected. Especially if they are on it for the umpteenth time. Have seen the same bird fly around, has seen the same NPC driving the airship. After awhile they're just going to go AFK, when instead, they could have chosen a much more dynamic option instead of having rides force fed on them. The immersion type I'm referring to is relevant to the feeling of the size this world.Not in one where instantaneous travel is built into the lore. The main thing being effected.

I argued teleportion should be at aetherytes only. I failed to show why. Now this? No freaking way. Leave us our airships. You guys have anima to use wisely! I've never advocated for a riskless airship ride. Please. I've given you much further content concepts that please all parties than you've given me. Your please has already been considered and taken into account. Don't play the victim here like I'm some kind of stealing your subjective sense of immersion. You're being tyrannical by not, at the very least, coming to a compromise when your needs have already been satiated.These things are ruining the experience for those who do become immersed in it at a high level. Akin to Captain Picard beaming down to the planet below, and the camera cutting to his position.

and I'm not the only one who feels this way. I know, there are a lot of other greeding immersion elitist out there as well. The worse part about it is, that your needs have been addressed in the "Future Airship Contend Ideas" thread but you fail to provide feedback or content to it. The stance that the people in your position take is a "wrong" in an argument as someone could be. You offer no condolences to the other side. You offer no solutions to try to accommodate the other's needs. It's selfish and morally corrupt and that kind of attitude should be shunned in an MMO where people have to deal with each other.

---

I was surprised by the rhetoric in your response, especially when I was so light-hearted in my initial response. I'm no boy scout or defender of the weak. I've matched the rhetoric accordingly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Konachibi

Sonic The Hedgehog travels fast.

Tails travels slow.

I don't see Tails always complaining to Sonic that he's ruining the immersion. :p

---

Also take into account tails can fly with his helicopter tails and if he hits a speed box he runs just as fast as Sonic. All applicable within the existing lore of Sonic the Hedgehog.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azurymber

crystal wards? go find the bots and watch them craft nearly 24/7 for weeks straight? search "botters" on this forum and read the countless threads bout it?

---

But they give me money for my crystals that I sell because I hate crafting...

What will I do for money without theeeem?? T_T

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhomagus

Also take into account tails can fly with his helicopter tails and if he hits a speed box he runs just as fast as Sonic. All applicable withing the lore of Sonic the Hedgehog.

---

err... ok, seperate example using the same Sega game.

Sonic The Hedgehog and shadow The Hedgehog travel at the same speed.

Shadow can teleport using chaos control.

Does Sonic shout at Shadow for ruining the immersion of Sonic Adventure 2?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crica

I agree.

I prefer to be immersed in game play.

You prefer to be immersed in travel play.

Square has offered both preferences to us.

Instant travel for me so I can begin playing the game quickly - so the game is less boring for me.

Slow travel for you so you can travel for long periods - so the world feels large for you.

I won't ask Square to take away your preferred immersion if you stop asking Square to take away my preferred immersion.

Deal?

---

Crica's analyses are like a haiku. I understand if people can be bothered to read my responses but Crica's are undeniable, succinct, and to the point. She even separates the sentences for easy viewing. It's like a paint by number. I'm jealous to an extent. +1 to all her posts. Even if I disagreed with them I'd +1 them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by User201109011315

Because it decreases the value of a level 50. It demerits the accomplishment. It diminishes the sense of achievement.

---

I already referenced this when I presented what my Nephew gets out of video games and what I get out of video games. Travel mechanics are also completely different than group based battle mechanics and economic mechanics. She was comparing apples and oranges, again, but Crica's viewpoint still stands as it's subjective.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by User201109011315

Anyway, immersion is such a vague term, and most of the time a thread like this all comes down to an argument of definitions. "My immersion is better than your immersion".

The thread title should be: "does instant transport effect the game's scope, sense of adventure, etc?"

---

But it isn't. If you want to start that thread then go on ahead. Realize that you'll get the same responses. The new thread title supposes the same philosophical doctrine.

Rhomagus is eating threads again! XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azurymber

do you honestly think an MMO where everyone can just cheat and get anything would ever be a success?

Neuroscience has shown humans gain large amounts of satisfaction from being better than those around them (ingame terms: having e-peen gear). This is a large part of why capitalism works. So knowing that, do you really think people want a game where everyone is automatically and forever essentially equal?

---

Now I've only asked for sources once in this thread and I was wrong for doing so, but you're making a giant appeal to authority here if you don't back up this statement with a source.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azurymber

do you honestly think an MMO where everyone can just cheat and get anything would ever be a success?

Neuroscience has shown humans gain large amounts of satisfaction from being better than those around them (ingame terms: having e-peen gear). This is a large part of why capitalism works. So knowing that, do you really think people want a game where everyone is automatically and forever essentially equal?

---

All the people in my linkshell have better magic and abilities in battle than me, plus they're all higher ranks. I can barely fight and die a lot.

However, it's me they come to afterwards when their gear breaks and it needs fixing.

I'm satisfied. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Konachibi

For the sake of relevance, take a lookie at this:

Konata's Ideas For Chocobos

If instant teleporting ruins 'immersion' for you then this could be exactly what you could hope for, customisable chocobos to ride around on ^.^ (and lots of other fun 'immersive' stuff too :p)

---

I really like how Konachibi is actually offering content to help satiate the needs of the other side. It shows a willingness to compromise, negotiate, and work together to solve an issue. Not only that but her ideas are so in depth there's no way that wouldn't increase immersion.

I have not seen this from the other side, which is the core problem I have with this whole "debate".