The Monk Temple

i just DL the program and .net 4.5

Parsers don't take crit or damage buffs into account. The "estimation" for my ToD with full GL, Twin, Flame Fists, Internal Release, and Blood for Blood was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off, like ridiculously far off. Stacking damage buffs like that for DoTs is one of the major ways Monks dish out DPS.

nah i found the problem. i changed the language to english and it works now.

now that i can see the real dot dmg i will drop fracture and add ToD

Fracture has an initial upfront dmg which makes up for its low DoT

Btw, can someone help me with this?

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Originally Posted by Miridori

Hi, I have a question regarding Demo:
I notice that most people refresh it ever other rotation. However, when i refresh it, Demo usually has around 3s left which mean at least 1 tick of DOt is wasted
Potency of Demo is 240 with full and 200 with 1 tick wasted and it is not benefited from 10% from DK. Thus, Snap punch is very close to Demo Potency (with 1 tick wasted) and cost half the TP.
Should I refresh Demo every third rotation or still stick with every other rotation in case bad thing happen?

Thank you

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Don't clip your dots early. Also Demolish and Snap punch both cost 50. Demo always should be prioritized over Snap punch when demolish is not on the boss.

Someone Please explain to me how The Fists of Earth, Fists of Wind, and Fists of Fire work. I've used them all and: Fists of Fire didn't raise my damage. It was constant. Fists of Wind neither made me faster nor decreased my weaponskill recast time, I raced a friend and it still takes the same amount of time to cast off. and Fists of Earth don't increase my defense. But the most, most irritating thing I find about this is what they claim, "MP is consumed..." MY MP DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! It won't go down from it's base. It won't be lost as I do things. It drives me off the walls that I start as a PUG at Beta 3, get these buffs, and still don't understand a single thing about them. Please someone, anyone, Figure that out so I can use it for the betterment of my fights.

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Originally Posted by Hyssa

Someone Please explain to me how The Fists of Earth, Fists of Wind, and Fists of Fire work. I've used them all and: Fists of Fire didn't raise my damage. It was constant. Fists of Wind neither made me faster nor decreased my weaponskill recast time, I raced a friend and it still takes the same amount of time to cast off. and Fists of Earth don't increase my defense. But the most, most irritating thing I find about this is what they claim, "MP is consumed..." MY MP DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! It won't go down from it's base. It won't be lost as I do things. It drives me off the walls that I start as a PUG at Beta 3, get these buffs, and still don't understand a single thing about them. Please someone, anyone, Figure that out so I can use it for the betterment of my fights.

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The buff descriptions are left over from 1.0. The tooltips are correct though and fully functioning.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

Don't clip your dots early. Also Demolish and Snap punch both cost 50. Demo always should be prioritized over Snap punch when demolish is not on the boss.

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Thx u. For some reason i thought Demolish is 130. So If i dont want to clip my dot early, should I put in 2 GCD (most likely ID or Fracture) and use Demo every other rotation or make it easy and only use Demo once every 3 rotation and accept some down tiem of DoT?

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Originally Posted by Miridori

Thx u. For some reason i thought Demolish is 130. So If i dont want to clip my dot early, should I put in 2 GCD (most likely ID or Fracture) and use Demo every other rotation or make it easy and only use Demo once every 3 rotation and accept some down tiem of DoT?

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Every 3rd rotation. At higher gear levels you'll need to throw the odd fracture, ID or ToD in to avoid clipping with every 3rd rotation too due to skill speed

Has anyone figured a BiS yet for monk using http://i.imgur.com/4FFBsD3.jpg and still have close to 472 accuracy? Keep in mind Relic +1 weapon gives +34 accuracy and allagan weapon has no accuracy. Base accuracy is +131.

Accuracy cap source
https://pay.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._for_accuracy/

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Originally Posted by Artryafe

Has anyone figured a BiS yet for monk using http://i.imgur.com/4FFBsD3.jpg and still have close to 472 accuracy? Keep in mind Relic +1 weapon gives +34 accuracy and allagan weapon has no accuracy. Base accuracy is +131.

Accuracy cap source
https://pay.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._for_accuracy/

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I plan on something like this, without craft.
http://en.xivdb.com/?wardrobe/2099/mnk2

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Originally Posted by Artryafe

Has anyone figured a BiS yet for monk using http://i.imgur.com/4FFBsD3.jpg and still have close to 472 accuracy? Keep in mind Relic +1 weapon gives +34 accuracy and allagan weapon has no accuracy. Base accuracy is +131.

Accuracy cap source
https://pay.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._for_accuracy/

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I have 464 without Relic Weapon with Gryphonskin.

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Originally Posted by Hyssa

Someone Please explain to me how The Fists of Earth, Fists of Wind, and Fists of Fire work. I've used them all and: Fists of Fire didn't raise my damage. It was constant. Fists of Wind neither made me faster nor decreased my weaponskill recast time, I raced a friend and it still takes the same amount of time to cast off. and Fists of Earth don't increase my defense. But the most, most irritating thing I find about this is what they claim, "MP is consumed..." MY MP DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! It won't go down from it's base. It won't be lost as I do things. It drives me off the walls that I start as a PUG at Beta 3, get these buffs, and still don't understand a single thing about them. Please someone, anyone, Figure that out so I can use it for the betterment of my fights.

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I only have a level 25 pugilist but I read around on the forums because I want to be a monk or black mage.

Fists of fire - Damage boost
Fists of wind - Movement boost
Fists of earth - Defense boost

Here is a thread completely about monk fists: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...nd-their-Fists

Fist of fire and fist of wind definitely work and both have their uses but I rarely hear anything about fist of earth and haven't tested earth to confirm it works. Fists of fire boosts damage and most monks primarily use it as a result. Fists of wind is useful in fights like titan or when you're learning the mechanics of a new boss because you can dodge AOEs faster and safer.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

Don't clip your dots early. Also Demolish and Snap punch both cost 50. Demo always should be prioritized over Snap punch when demolish is not on the boss.

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Actually the opposite is true. Snap should always be prioritized over Demolish.

1: Invulnerability. Many bosses will have times that will wipe out their dot, or do no damage. Your 1bizillion Ifrit, garuda and of course CM runs are notorious for those.

2: Animation. If you're on stun duty, Demolish is an even bigger no no.

3: Snap is position specific, while demolish is not, therefore, anytime you loose position, you can rotate in demolish as a substitute.

4: Blood bathing, off gcd, etc. Your demolish animation will just slow everything down when you need to rotate in those skills.

Snap is a better in the long run until you get the fight down to a memorization level. When you can narrow down the damage windows, demolish will shine, but more often then not, you're just going to loose out.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Actually the opposite is true. Snap should always be prioritized over Demolish.

Snap is a better in the long run until you get the fight down to a memorization level. When you can narrow down the damage windows, demolish will shine, but more often then not, you're just going to loose out.

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If you have to put in situational scenarios as to why it shouldn't be used how can you say "Snap should always be prioritized over Demolish". Demolish is at least 42 potency stronger, it should always be kept up if you know that you won't lose any ticks which just requires basic fight knowledge.

There are few times when I will purposefully hold back on using Demolish, off the top of my head they are:

Ifrit will jump off screen in the next 18 seconds(you can just not demolish towards the end of his plume rotation)
Garuda will become invulnerable(happens once the entire fight, when she goes into the hard mode segment)
Titan will jump off screen(happens 3 times)

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Originally Posted by Valsh

If you have to put in situational scenarios as to why it shouldn't be used how can you say "Snap should always be prioritized over Demolish". Demolish is at least 42 potency stronger, it should always be kept up if you know that you won't lose any ticks which just requires basic fight knowledge.

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That's lead to over optimization, that leads to complications.

Again in a fight:I rather someone do
70% beginning 70% mid phase 60% end phase
then
100% beginning 70% mid phase 40% end phase

Because you are not producing in the clutch.

Your job is to win, not put up a bigger e-pee. Mnks are highly manual and that's why they fall off a cliff when they pull these kind of things.

There's such a thing as trying too hard, and mnks get hurt the most when they attempt it. I rather have a person watch the fight, then mentally counting down their demolish and tod Dot timer on their screen.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

That's lead to over optimization, that leads to complications.

Again in a fight:I rather someone do
70% beginning 70% mid phase 60% end phase
then
100% beginning 70% mid phase 40% end phase

Because you are not producing in the clutch.

Your job is to win, not put up a bigger e-pee. Mnks are highly manual and that's why they fall off a cliff when they pull these kind of things.

There's such a thing as trying too hard, and mnks get hurt the most when they attempt it.

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Oh come on, it's not hard to use demolish properly. Arguing that it's too complex is silly, might as well just spam bootshine from rear because moving to the flank is more "complexity". The job is designed as such that you should be utilizing most your skills and naturally that will come with having to think a bit more.

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Originally Posted by Valsh

Oh come on, it's not hard to use demolish properly. Arguing that it's too complex is silly, might as well just spam bootshine from rear because moving to the flank is more "complexity". The job is designed as such that you should be utilizing most your skills and naturally that will come with having to think a bit more.

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It's easy when you don't have crap going on. You're just armchairing.

At the last phase, you are moving, waiting for signs, watching hp bars, Demolish is no longer ever other rotation, just like internal isn't spam on demand, just like you're not 100% next to the enemy. Sometimes you gotta wait, sometimes you're stuck on twin, running back to the enemy, sometimes it'll get reset, sometimes your DK buff is down, etc.

If I turn your head and poke you randomly every 5-20 seconds, I bet you can't remember your rotation and demolish timing either. And if I clock your parser at >50%, I bet you would drop like a rock as well.

You're not fighting a training dummy here. Every second you have to glance at your enemy's debuff bar, is a second you're not watching the fight.

If it you're pro enough on a fight to do all that, then your dps wouldn't matter, because it's just another run.

Throwing a demolish every so often, is much better then keeping it in rotation. Until you can sleep through the fight.

edit: speaking of bootshine. I find that mnk who boot at lvl50 average much less then just DK-ing. That's because the extra 1 second to position themselves, rather then firing off, slowly extends in a fight when stuff starts going crazy. The mental pause to get rear, goes from 1 second to 2 second to 3 second, etc.

I don't know why that one second would cause you a dps loss if you move during animations. Like during demolishes long animation, I just move myself to the rear and bootshine and scoot back. The space between the rear and flank is not as big as people seem to make it out to be. The empty space is the rear and the second you touch one of the red half circles you are on the flank. You can easily position yourself to swap between the two with 0 dps loss. Unless by some magic I don't know about you can use a second skill during your GCD (and no I'm not talking about animation skipping because I do that).

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

That's lead to over optimization, that leads to complications.

Again in a fight:I rather someone do
70% beginning 70% mid phase 60% end phase
then
100% beginning 70% mid phase 40% end phase

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Shouldn't you be able to do 100% beginning, 70% mid and 60% end. Using your numbers anyway. If you can't produce in a clutch there's no reason to not to produce when you can.
Valsh was just saying that always is a strong word.
The combat is enough that you can adapt depending on the situation, so yea can follow an easier "rotation" if your buffs are going to fall off and boss uptime is low.

If we just called it a a priority system, no one would even think twice about this. But we have to do it in cycles so everyone's hung up on considering it a rotation.

you should be switching between demolish and snap punch.
Put up demolish first for the dot. then use snap punch the next time since demloish is already running, and then by the time you get your next couerl form demolish will need to be refreshed as its about to fall off.
You snap punch when demolish is already up, or if you know the thing you're attacking is going to die or something soon and know that demolish wont have enough ramp time.

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Originally Posted by Zigkid3

you should be switching between demolish and snap punch.
Put up demolish first for the dot. then use snap punch the next time since demloish is already running, and then by the time you get your next couerl form demolish will need to be refreshed as its about to fall off.
You snap punch when demolish is already up, or if you know the thing you're attacking is going to die or something soon and know that demolish wont have enough ramp time.

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Because it's not a training dummy and your rotations gets fragmented in a fight.

the boss is not nice enough to say "oh you finish your rotation, i'll do my thing"

The last phase of a boss battle, there is a high amounts of fragmentation, which breaks down your internal clock

it is much simpler to dk-twin-snap all the time, and then throw in a demolish on a whim then keeping demolish up.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Shouldn't you be able to do 100% beginning, 70% mid and 60% end. Using your numbers anyway. If you can't produce in a clutch there's no reason to not to produce when you can.
Valsh was just saying that always is a strong word.
The combat is enough that you can adapt depending on the situation, so yea can follow an easier "rotation" if your buffs are going to fall off and boss uptime is low.

If we just called it a a priority system, no one would even think twice about this. But we have to do it in cycles so everyone's hung up on considering it a rotation.

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Well yes theoretically you should be doing 100% at the beginning, but there is such a thing as muscle training or worse, macros, and the more you try to train a complicated system, the more it'll fail you when goes irregular.

But yes, a priority system is best described. Heck drgs rotations of death, the first thing they must learn is to straighten out their priorities. NO boss is ever going to let you do your rotation of 20+ skills.

Reason I said, snap before demolish.

On the learning and journeyman stage of the battle, just dk-twin-snap will do woooonders for your battle. Spam all the IR you want, the bfb you want, the dodging you want.

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Because it's not a training dummy and your rotations gets fragmented in a fight.

the boss is not nice enough to say "oh you finish your rotation, i'll do my thing"

The last phase of a boss battle, there is a high amounts of fragmentation, which breaks down your internal clock

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Can you name a few fights you feel "fragment" your rotation to the point where you have to use DK -> Twin -> Snap punch only. I can't, I honestly can't.

All the more to keep demolish up then.
At least that way youll be doing more dps over time as dots tick especially for times when you can't just sit on the boss.

Monk is an ok class, i just found the entire set of fists buff weak, and bootshine/truestrike
terribad.

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Originally Posted by Jabba

Monk is an ok class, i just found the entire set of fists buff weak, and bootshine/truestrike
terribad.

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Bootshine is one of our best skills....100% crit in Opo-opo form? Yes place its free 500 damage.

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Originally Posted by Zigkid3

All the more to keep demolish up then.
At least that way youll be doing more dps over time as dots tick especially for times when you can't just sit on the boss.

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No it doesn't because unless you got the battle down, you will be gimping your demolish with invul frames, and putting mental stress on yourself looking at the debuff timer.

The whole reason why snap is good is because you don't think and let muscle training take over, while your full concentration is learning and beating the battle...

No one is stopping you from demolish, the point is to not make it a priority. Like some crazy rotations that get passed around. Learn before use.

*sigh* reason mnks get a bad rep is because of such things. Over zealous reaching, leads to them falling off a cliff. Fast and manual comes with a heavy price to pay.

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Originally Posted by ilJumperMT

Bootshine is one of our best skills....100% crit in Opo-opo form? Yes place its free 500 damage.

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Except DK is a much better spammer since it's flank giving you 2x the chance of not missing, and repositioning. I find a lot of mnks start loosing it, when the enemy is wonky, and they pause there over and over to get a proper boot in...when they could have fired 1.5 DKs in that time. Also you have to watch your IR timing, as it's wasted on boot.

Give or take, boot is also a liability until you got your fight down at 50.

So I hit the 483 skill speed cap on my monk, and I'm trying to see what balance opener I can do that best awards DPS. This is what I've come up with, thoughts anyone?

Now granted, I don't always use balance in an opener. OFC save for fights where you know GL is gunna fall off and you need to get it up quick and/or a burn phase or something of the sorts. This is purely just speculation.

Balance opener:
Blood for Blood & Internal Release -> Perfect Balance -> Twin Snakes -> Snap Punch x3 -> Demo -> Fracture -> Touch of Death -> Regular Rotation (Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Howling Fist -> Snap Punch -> Steel Peak -> Bootshine -> ETC).

Double post cause LOL1000CHARLIMIT

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My idea is I can start the fight with already buff'd DOTs. Your Demo/Fracture/Touch of Death will all get the Buffs from B4B and Fracture, 10% dmg from Twin Snakes, and 21% dmg from GL3. By time Touch of Death is applied the Twin Snakes buff should just be falling off. Sometimes I get lucky and the Dragon Kick after Touch gets the Twin Snakes buff, but its not that bad if it doesn't. From there on out it goes to regular rotation just weaving in Howling Fist and Steel Peak with Twin Snakes buff up.

Any thoughts or suggestions? OFC this isn't always ideal as you don't always start with Perfect Balance, but in the event that I can I like to try to see best ways to maximize damage.

Okay, considering buying up the parts to make Gryphonskin. However, I don't want to buy every single animal fat at once to give me some to farm for, but I'd like to gear up a bit. Since I figure I'll replace them with Allagan armor eventually, what are the pieces that drop first in the Coil? Basically, what good pieces will be last acquired so I can make the Gryphonskin to tide me over longer? Should I make the chest and legs?

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

SNIP

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Insisting that the simplest rotation is the best rotation is just limiting yourself for no good reason.
Difficulty of execution is a thing, but it is entirely subjective - there are fights where you may want to keep it simple and concentrate on raid mechanics but there are also fights where there are DPS checks and every bit counts.

The way you talk about invul frames sounds like all you've done is the primals, and even then invulren periods are predictable - this is not an issue in most fights.

hey guys i wanna ask you something about the Fist of destroyer- twin snake - rockbreaker combo. AT gl 3 you can spamm that combo very fast but it wil ldrain your tp in like seconds. Things that i noticed about FoD is that the silence makes the monsters stand still for 1 second and dont attack, giving the tank a short break from 1 attack so basically every turn you use it the monster lose 1 attack wich makes healing more easier?

Kukurumei: When the team was developing FFXIV a lot of its aspects pulled things from WoW. I mained a feral druid in WoW in a raiding guild, and believe me when I say that a pugilist plays very similarly to a feral druid. You have to keep demolish/fracture/touch of death up while maintaining twin snakes and greased lightning buffs, all at the same time making sure you're positioned correctly and doing your normal attacks all in between (opo, raptor, coerul form stuff).

Snap punch: potency 140, 180 from the flank.
Demolish: Damage over time of 18s with a potency of 40. It ticks once every 3 seconds, so 6x40=240.

If demolish ticks for =12 seconds, its the average of a snap punch.
If you know something will take more than 12 seconds worth of the DoT then it's worth it to prioritize demolish, If it's going to die in less than 12 seconds, then you can place snap punch above demolish.

This is why you go demolish >snap punch > demolish >snap punch....
If you only use demolish you'll keep clipping the time. if you use it every other time you can set it up just as the other falls off. if it fell off completely and hasnt been reapplied for a while, then its as if you did 240 damage instead of 180 when you chose your attack 18s in the past.

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Originally Posted by aycheff

So I hit the 483 skill speed cap on my monk

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Explain? I've seen over 500 - is there a limit to the GCD reduction?

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

The whole reason why snap is good is because you don't think and let muscle training take over, while your full concentration is learning and beating the battle...

No one is stopping you from demolish, the point is to not make it a priority. Like some crazy rotations that get passed around. Learn before use.

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In my last post, I was actually thinking of muscle memory but reaching the opposite conclusion. I believe muscle memory can lead you to learn a complicated rotation once you keep testing it in different environments.
Eventually, all you need if to feed yourself the situational information and then you will already know what to do.

I'm not saying to over reach, if you're not comfortable. It's okay to play it safe, especially if it ends up a dps loss because you let your buffs/debuffs fall off.
You shouldn't preach the opposite though. Everyone should, at least, keep the goal of performing optimally in hectic situations in mind.

It takes a lot of practice and might get worse before it gets better. So yea, we get a bad rep for this. But that comes with playing a difficult class.
Strive to get better but don't overextend, it doesn't have to be one or the other.
What you're arguing is personal and relative to what one can handle.

You say "learn before use", that's good but you've also dismissed trying to do more complicated stuff altogether. You don't need to be so extreme to get the point across.
And relying on muscle memory of the 3 button rotation alone isn't good advice, because people don't develop if they stick too close to their comfort zone.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

In my last post, I was actually thinking of muscle memory but reaching the opposite conclusion. I believe muscle memory can lead you to learn a complicated rotation once you keep testing it in different environments.
Eventually, all you need if to feed yourself the situational information and then you will already know what to do.

I'm not saying to over reach, if you're not comfortable. It's okay to play it safe, especially if it ends up a dps loss because you let your buffs/debuffs fall off.
You shouldn't preach the opposite though. Everyone should, at least, keep the goal of performing optimally in hectic situations in mind.

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Battle experience > skill >>>>>>>>>> rotation

90% of winning the fight is simply knowing the battle and paying attention. Training complicated procedures, matters a whole lot less then simply making sure a: you don't die b: you're not standing around doing nothing like an idiot.

ARR is in general is a new age "casual" type game. Meaning it's full of tricks and pitfalls instead of numbers, and math.

Getting a stupid couple of extra damage in, is much less efficient then simply saying "omg, red circle~"

While it's not wrong to "grow into the coat" like you suggest...the party really doesn't like that and it's better to "change your coat as you grow", is my endorsement.

Mnks have such a large pitfall it's really a can become a problem depending on the way you approach a battle.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Battle experience > skill >>>>>>>>>> rotation

Mnks have such a large pitfall it's really a can become a problem depending on the way you approach a battle.

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Your arguments are bad because you are assuming someone can't both focus on the battle and optimizing the rotation at the same time and that simply isn't true. Once you have a lot of experience with it you really don't even need to look at debuffs/dot timers much so you can really focus on fight mechanics and only a minor amount of attention going to your rotation.

As Subu and Ally said, rotations should come like breathing, experienced monks should be doing them without thinking about doing them, and fully focusing on the boss mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Vektrat

As Subu and Ally said, rotations should come like breathing, experienced monks should be doing them without thinking about doing them, and fully focusing on the boss mechanics.

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False mnks should never learn their rotations by heart. It's like the worse thing. Mnks are very manual. They should adapt and change at will.

Just like you can't Dot ifrit without knowing his time window, you can't have an internal clock on debuffs. Things will push/pull and kill you. There will be resets, lag time, and target switches, and animation frames. If they ever improve the debuff UI, it will get easier to ingest information quickly, but otherwise all you're doing is armchairing, and Mnks suffer the most when they try to over reach, because it penalizes them a lot.

I bet you're one of those people that get hit and then whine "I was clearly outside the circle!" when most of us by know it's better to play it waaaay safe outside it.

Crap happens, and it happens less when you don't tempt fate. Mnks needs to learn that pretty hard, or they need to play a more consistent job.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Battle experience > skill >>>>>>>>>> rotation

90% of winning the fight is simply knowing the battle and paying attention. Training complicated procedures, matters a whole lot less then simply making sure a: you don't die b: you're not standing around doing nothing like an idiot.

While it's not wrong to "grow into the coat" like you suggest...the party really doesn't like that and it's better to "change your coat as you grow", is my endorsement.

Mnks have such a large pitfall it's really a can become a problem depending on the way you approach a battle.

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Actually, its usually better for most people to try the complicated version out early, as it makes it easier for them to learn it, as opposed to trying to un-learn the easy way(which is much harder to do), if you clearly arent good at it and you're doing something tough, then yes, maybe you should take it easy.

However, i do everything I have to to perform optimally in all fights, i have the target bar in the center of the screen so i can watch my timers without looking away from the fights, i NEVER skip my dots in a battle unless its flimsy trash mobs or the boss will go invul within 10 seconds(and honestly, fracture is probably worth it anyway), i feel bored and useless if im just sitting there doing the boring 1-2-3 rotation, i dont know how you can even stand it.