Positionals

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Originally Posted by IruruCece

You seem to not understand that BLMs have their own challenges forced onto them by mechanics outside of their control. Every job does. That's the point.

You do make one valid point: Monks SHOULD have more interactions between their buttons to make the positionals more rewarding. If there is a single thing from DRG I'd like to see on Monk, it'd be more of that. Successful positionals should result in more powerful variants of moves, it'd be easier visual (and numerical) feedback on pretty much every level. It might tick off people who think they are being harshly punished by SE for failing one or several, but I don't really care too much about what they think anymore.

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Again though, BLM have more tools to deal with those challenges than MDPS do.

I'd be good with that. DRG, the positionals were always bonuses, nice to hit, never required, yet were given a skill that required positionals, doesn't fit. Let monk have that type of stuff as it has always been Monks wheel house. I'm not against positionals that are meaningful and or fit the design of the class, I'm against positionals that are added simply for sake of complexity like raiden thrust with minimal benefit. Either make them meaningful and fit the classes or just remove them.

Do BLM really have more tools tho?
Thundercloud procs are RNG ( I am aware of Sharpcast ), and holding back Triplecast for mobility does hurt your dps altho that's sort of a trade-off that's worth it if you know what you're doing but that's also where skill and knowledge of fights come into play.
Then you have Xenoglossy and the teleport only works against specific mechanics.

I really don't think that equates to more tools over 20s no positional req in total which is a long time if you actually save them for when necessary ( 38s for Monk with Riddle of Earth ).
Not to mention that you can still hit even if you do miss your positional it's still better than not attacking at all.
BLM also kinda just needs the tools because they have Enochian to keep up that very easily falls off especially if you have to move at the wrong time.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Again though, BLM have more tools to deal with those challenges than MDPS do.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Do BLM really have more tools tho?

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Even if you concede to the fact that BLM has more tools to deal with those challenges, they need them to do any damage at all, and melee DPS needs tools to do...slightly more. You're comparing apples and oranges. If BLM can't cast, they do 0 damage. If melee can't hit their positionals they do 90% of their possible damage.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

Even if you concede to the fact that BLM has more tools to deal with those challenges, they need them to do any damage at all, and melee DPS needs tools to do...slightly more. You're comparing apples and oranges. If BLM can't cast, they do 0 damage. If melee can't hit their positionals they do 90% of their possible damage.

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Since melee also have to deal with not being able to hit the boss, how about we throw positionals onto the BLM as well? What people seem to not be getting is that positionals are on top all the other things from more complex rotations to mechanics that just make it so that you simply cannot hit the boss.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Since melee also have to deal with not being able to hit the boss, how about we throw positionals onto the BLM as well? What people seem to not be getting is that positionals are on top all the other things from more complex rotations to mechanics that just make it so that you simply cannot hit the boss.

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I can just repeat, what i wrote in the other thread. Melee classes have the biggest DPS output overall and it´s definately calculated, that you have to disengage here and there. Nothing is wrong with the class balancing if you compare Melees and Caster. Both have their tools to play around nearly any mechanic to hold 99-100% uptime. It´s up to you to find a way / the perfect timing.
And i don´t really understand your 2nd sentence. First positionals are meaningless etc..., now they´re on the top of all other things from more complexity? Sry if i understand something wrong, i´m not native english, but that seems a bit contradictory.
And just an example:

E11s active DPS on my MNK: 82,94% / on my static BLM from my main char, who has ~ the same skill level: 82,11%
E9s, which is really MNK unfriendly: Both 99,62 in the best tries

So yeah...

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Hell, DRG has an ability that requires you to hit 2 positionals to even activate it.

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Since when does DRG has positionals to activate something? Is there anything I miss? I´m pretty sure you get your 40 potency on positionals and that´s it, which means 200 potency loss each 10 key rotation if you play them all wrong. Your Blood of the Dragon timer will get 10s on top anyway and the special skills are activated with the 2nd use of Mirage Dive.

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Since when does DRG has positionals to activate something? Is there anything I miss? I´m pretty sure you get your 40 potency on positionals and that´s it, which means 200 potency loss each 10 key rotation if you play them all wrong. Your Blood of the Dragon timer will get 10s on top anyway and the special skills are activated with the 2nd use of Mirage Dive.

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Raiden thrust. DRG get a skill that is just a small potency upgrade that requires you to hit two positionals before it activates. Waste of a level up skill and should have simply been baked into True thrust if pressent at all.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Raiden thrust. DRG get a skill that is just a small potency upgrade that requires you to hit two positionals before it activates. Waste of a level up skill and should have simply been baked into True thrust if pressent at all.

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Oh yeah, forget this passiv. I thought you mean a real skill.

It´s just 40 potency too, which means you would lose 240 in the first and 280 in every following rotations. It´s not even near the dmg buff you gain or lose from e.g. bootshine. Funfact, you don´t even have to play both positionals, only the second one.

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Oh yeah, forget this passiv. I thought you mean a real skill.

It´s just 40 potency too, which means you would lose 240 in the first and 280 in every following rotations. It´s not even near the dmg buff you gain or lose from e.g. bootshine. Funfact, you don´t even have to play both positionals, only the second one.

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Having something like this so forgettable is pretty bad. If they want positionals then they should keep them meaningful, if they are forgettable then they lose meaning and purpose other than adding unneeded complexity.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Having something like this so forgettable is pretty bad. If they want positionals then they should keep them meaningful, if they are forgettable then they lose meaning and purpose other than adding unneeded complexity.

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Well for my bad i don´t play DRG very often. MNK is way more fun and not so static. Not to mention that having 2 jumps as "dmg only" skills instead of real gapclosers is bad.
As i said, DRG and NIN? Get ride of them and work more with the rest of the kit based on their background. But SAM and MNK? Never... Both kits are fine as they are. MNK just needs a replace for the lost GL and SAM a little nerf.

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Well for my bad i don´t play DRG very often. MNK is way more fun and not so static. Not to mention that having 2 jumps as "dmg only" skills instead of real gapclosers is bad.
As i said, DRG and NIN? Get ride of them and work more with the rest of the kit based on their background. But SAM and MNK? Never... Both kits are fine as they are. MNK just needs a replace for the lost GL and SAM a little nerf.

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Even on Sam they are unmeaningful coming out to less than a percent on your dps over a fight