So, can we just ban damage meters already.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

And then they get to SB trials and lvl 80 dungeons and keep failing the DPS checks, wiping and failing mechanics because no one called them out for them to clean up their act. They'll carry on blissfully thinking everything's fine.

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This is right, but it's not always blissful and it's actually more cruel on Enix's part than kind.

The game spends 80 levels and a good deal of endgame content tricking you into thinking you're amazing. You can have half the dps you should, a terrible rotation, no idea about mechanics, wrong/low gear, no melds, die a lot and beat everything in the game on Normal just fine.

Nothing in-game tells you EX, Savage and Ultimate are a whole different world. You've beaten (been carried through) Eden Normal, you've beaten the MSQ, you've beaten the 80 dungeons. Naturally you assume EX or Savage is the next step. You take that step and suddenly you've gone from being fine to being kicked out of every group, dying in the first 30 seconds and being told your damage is terrible and they're sorry but you're holding the team back and have to go. It's confusing and hurts and it's entirely due to being handheld the entire way then shoved into the deep end without warning.

Player mentality is the same. Abuse and toxicity should absolutely be punished, but banning any metric of player ability wont magically make everything fine. It merely hides the issue under the carpet. The more it's continues the more subpar players will be booted from harder content because it's literally the only option left. You can't offer advice and point out exactly where they're going wrong in the rotation and how to fix it because you aren't supposed to have that information and it falls under harassment with the new vague ToS. So to beat the enrage, those groups have to boot the weak link. And that weak link has no idea why.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

Has it ever occurred to you that the players aren't getting worse, but they just seem that way because you're getting better? Kudos to you for persistently improving yourself, but quit flattering yourself that you're "carrying" everyone. Most of the runs I've seen where a player rage quit the group because they were "tired of carrying the party" (in Wow, that is -- I've never seen that happen in this game) went much more smoothly without a prima donna ruining everyone's good time. If you don't want to "carry" anyone then stick to pre-made groups.

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When I see a Samurai pulling less damage than the tanks, my own DPS or skill level has zero impact on their lack of said skill. The only difference is I put in the work to improve whereas this hypothetical Samurai didn't. They coasted on the coattails of everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

Because it's just a game? I don't criticize those who treat their games like full time jobs, complete with performance reviews and peer evaluations. By that same token, however, I don't feel I should be criticized for not playing as industriously as the next guy. If I'm ignorantly doing something that is genuinely hurting the group, then I am open to criticism. If you want to come down on me in the dungeon roulette because I just leveled up and the gear recommendation button determined that my tank is supposed to be wearing cloth pants because the rest of my on-level gear is crap, then you should probably settle down. The last thing I want to encounter when playing a game at the end of my workday is another supervisor.

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On the other hand, others would like to enjoy their game without having to pick up slack from players that want to be deliberately lazy.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

You play your way and he'll play his. When this guy wants to run raids with your FC, then by all means lay into him. There's a time and place for criticism.

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Most people don’t care how others play unless it becomes detrimental or an annoyance to them during cooperative content. Everyone is free to do what they want—but when Billy joins Alliance Roulette and decides to AFK the entire time in Sycrus Tower, the rest of the alliance is allowed to call him out and criticize him for that. As well as dismiss him.

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Originally Posted by Diggles

What exactly are you asking for? The people in question were already breaking the rules and could have been reported. This is like when people clamor for more gun laws after each shooting when the laws to prevent it were actually already in place.

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from what i always see, they clamor for stricter regulations on video game sales.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

That's commendable, and I applaud you for it. What I don't applaud is expecting everyone else in the game to take it that seriously. The guy who just wants to level his ninja to expedite mat farming for his leatherworking doesn't need lessons from the performance police while running his daily roulette at level 30. Who are you to judge his attitude? You play your way and he'll play his. When this guy wants to run raids with your FC, then by all means lay into him. There's a time and place for criticism.

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This is a good way of thinking, sadly you're not going to get very many to accept this point of view. Just take a look at every thread even remotely similar to this they all devolve into the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

This is right, but it's not always blissful and it's actually more cruel on Enix's part than kind.

The game spends 80 levels and a good deal of endgame content tricking you into thinking you're amazing. You can have half the dps you should, a terrible rotation, no idea about mechanics, wrong/low gear, no melds, die a lot and beat everything in the game on Normal just fine.

Nothing in-game tells you EX, Savage and Ultimate are a whole different world. You've beaten (been carried through) Eden Normal, you've beaten the MSQ, you've beaten the 80 dungeons. Naturally you assume EX or Savage is the next step. You take that step and suddenly you've gone from being fine to being kicked out of every group, dying in the first 30 seconds and being told your damage is terrible and they're sorry but you're holding the team back and have to go. It's confusing and hurts and it's entirely due to being handheld the entire way then shoved into the deep end without warning.

Player mentality is the same. Abuse and toxicity should absolutely be punished, but banning any metric of player ability wont magically make everything fine. It merely hides the issue under the carpet. The more it's continues the more subpar players will be booted from harder content because it's literally the only option left. You can't offer advice and point out exactly where they're going wrong in the rotation and how to fix it because you aren't supposed to have that information and it falls under harassment with the new vague ToS. So to beat the enrage, those groups have to boot the weak link. And that weak link has no idea why.

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This, so much. And the problem is that SE caved to the demands of a community of people cherishing and celebrating bad gameplay skill, and a lack of learning curve or difficulty hierarchy. There are just a very few holdouts where SOME actual skill and intelligence is needed to succeed in the game, and even those are constantly under fire from the bads that demand everything being handed to them.

Pharos Sirius, anyone?

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

You mean like this one? Which is SE's way of telling the group to "git gud".

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ecret_form_if/

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I read the comments and sadly, this is exactly what this transformation says about the group. I ran that the dgn the very first time and didn't even know there was that transformation. I would not see this transformation until say...second and half week into Shb after official launch? At first, I thought it was funny but I came to realize this was SE's way of basically saying "ya'll sucked at that one."

Now obviously, that's hella generalized because it could've come down to just one person, hell I could've been responsible for that too (especially with the re-learning the jobs) but at the end of the day, you could take that transformation's lesson to heart: doesn't matter if it's one person or everyone who underperforms, someway, somehow to various degrees, everyone as a collective in the party suffers for it and the penalties that come with it also comes in various forms. From as small as just an extra minute spent (which is obviously no big deal in most circumstances) to failing a dps check or just failing the fight in general.

I have to wonder with how much hate damage meters get, how well some people know their own ui? As outside of normal observation of if mobs are dying too fast or slow, there is this little gem.

https://i.imgur.com/rfWGCcG.jpg

See the bars under the Job icons? Do you know what that is? If you do, unless the 5.0 changes really messed something up can be used as a really good indicator of how well you are performing as a DPS in a group.

Its a more detailed agro meter for your current target than the little colored icons in the enemy list. Its been in the game's own UI since 2.0. Sure its not a raw DPS score, but if your not dying its very clear who is performing and who is not.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

I have to wonder with how much hate damage meters get, how well some people know their own ui? As outside of normal observation of if mobs are dying too fast or slow, there is this little gem.

https://i.imgur.com/rfWGCcG.jpg

See the bars under the Job icons? Do you know what that is? If you do, unless the 5.0 changes really messed something up can be used as a really good indicator of how well you are performing as a DPS in a group.

Its a more detailed agro meter for your current target than the little colored icons in the enemy list. Its been in the game's own UI since 2.0. Sure its not a raw DPS score, but if your not dying its very clear who is performing and who is not.

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Ehhhhh it's not as accurate as you'd think. I wouldn't ever go off of aggro for that.

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

Mentioning that someone's damage is lower then someone

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If no one died, because of changes to aggro, this one becomes ambiguous if they don't mention a parser or hard numbers because the aggro table gives a good indication of where each DPS fell in terms of pDPS.

Of course, that doesn't tell you too much. A good DNC's pDPS could still fall behind a mediocre BLM. AND it could still fall under general harassment.

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

Ehhhhh it's not as accurate as you'd think. I wouldn't ever go off of aggro for that.

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For the DPS players at least, it's only inaccurate if someone dies. There's no DPS skills that influence aggro gain, or dump aggro, anymore. The only things that could throw it off are Curing Waltz and Vercure, and I don't think those will be a deciding factor much of the time.